TRPG General Chat

12:01 AM

Well, gave it a crack

1

Q: Dealing with in-game love interests between PCs

So, following a previous question about dealing with love interests in a 1-on-1 game this has been brought into our current game. It was one thing to have it in our one-on-one game, but now we have 2 other players, and a new DM (I am now one of the players), and this relationship between our PCs...

nitsua60

12:11 AM

@ErinB You rang? (he he he)

trogdor

@Ben have you spoken to them about why they are interested in playing out a love Interest with thier characters in the game?

Ben

@trogdor We have had many discussions outside of the game about "why they love eachother"

That probably doesn't really answer your question though haha.

trogdor

Is it two players engaging in this? Or is it one player with an NPC?

Or is it two players but only one of them really pushes for it?

Ben

The second one.

I am the other player

trogdor

Mk

That makes it a little weird

Ben

12:20 AM

A little. I do feel awkward every time it comes out.

trogdor

I would in that situation as well

Ben

There's nothing graphic involved, thankfully. But there's times where we do spend about 20 minutes at a time just playing out a bit where the characters go off and rp their feelings for eachother

trogdor

No I didn't assume there was but

There doesn't need to be "graphic" stuff involved to make it feel awkward to receive affection of that kind, even on behalf of a character

Ben

And I just feel a bit weird, especially when there's 3 other people sort of just... waiting

trogdor

So

Have you asked for them to,... Say why they feel, out of character, like doing this?

I realize RP is involved but a person is behind it

Maybe, for example, they feel like playing a game about that kind of social interaction and they don't have one, so they do it in this game

Ben

12:25 AM

@trogdor I have spoken to them and they've stated that they really get drawn into it. To the point where they almost are the character.

trogdor

Mmmk

Ben

@trogdor That's probably pretty close

trogdor

Have you mentioned how it makes you feel?

Ben

A couple of times.

trogdor

Ok

Ben

12:26 AM

The question I linked has a bit of backstory with all this

trogdor

I read it yeah

It has that you spoke about it

But I didn't immediately recall it saying you asking to stop, with maybe your reasons for it

Whether it's incredibly awkward all around or is more so simply because,... It's literally taking up valuable game time, and not just from you but from other people

Ben

Yeah. It's a different situation now because there are more people involved. So no, I haven't spoken to them yet about it in this situation. Which I am unsure how to approach

trogdor

Fair enough

I'm probably not the best person to give further advise on that

If it were me I would usually feel uncomfortable just having that happen at all

Even if no other players had to sit through it

But that would definitely make it worse

Ben

Lol

trogdor

I admit, I'm awkward as heck at receiving any kind of affection, even in character

Ben

12:40 AM

@trogdor You mean out of character?

trogdor

Even if I can easily assume it only goes that far, I can't suddenly get better at it

Ben

Charisma +2

trogdor

@Ben out of character I'm bad at it even of it is targeted in character

There is huge room for improvement

XD

Ben

This calls for a montage

trogdor

Lol

Of what?

People subjecting me to,... RP love Interest socializing?

Ben

12:46 AM

Montages are usually just a transition from bad to good at [skill]. So you'll probably just go through a Rocky montage, then just be good at [skill] by the end :P

trogdor

Lol

Just run up and down stairs, do some biking and jump rope and Bam, good at rping romance stuff?

Everyone must know this thing

XD

Ben

That's it. But you gotta put in the effort!

How much exactly?

Just writing this in the trogonomicon

nitsua60

1:02 AM

Today in backhanded insults:

"Plaintiff sued... various officials affiliated with the foregoing, as well as Betsy DeVos, who for some reason he seems to associate with education."

trogdor

Lol

Sorry that was a very pollitical lol

nitsua60

@doppelgreener any news on the undershirt experiment?

@trogdor It was a bit... but I hoped it was an obscure enough reference that anyone who caught it would appreciate it.

Protip: If you want to amaze your friends on Saturday morning by answering one of Wait! Wait! Don't Tell Me's famous "Paula, on Saturday a man in Germany was arrested for riding what?" "A pair of manatees." "Yes!" questions, loweringthebar is a decent blog to read. (I feel like the majority of weeks there's an overlap.)

trogdor

XD

Oh my

I love it when she is on that

I embarrassingly didn't know she had a whole show herself

Or at least one anyway

nitsua60

Yeah, when she basically sits Peter down and takes the show's reins for five minutes it's usually pretty classic.
"What study is this!? I gotta... you know, I'm not sure about these scientists you're finding, Segel."

trogdor

Lol

She's the best

She has the best tangents

And the best incredulity

And the best enthusiasm XD

nitsua60

1:15 AM

Mo Rocca comes close on the enthusiasm. But nobody matches her for incredulity =)

(There was a brand new Irish comedian on a week or two ago... came close to Paula for enthusiasm. I'll see if I can find a clip...)

trogdor

Oooh

nitsua60

So it's this episode. But she really hits is out of the part at one point where she takes the show over Paula-style and pulls in a few callbacks (including one from an incredible study). So you'd kinda have to listen to the whole thing.

Or I could put together a playlist containing enough of the segments to make the last one land, but that'll be later tonight. Gotta get the kids down!

BESW

1:46 AM

If anyone's interested, since the show's starting up again soon, the Time and Relative Dimensions in Spoilers chat is open again.

2

trogdor

has it been frozen for just ever?

BESW

For a bit over two months now.

KorvinStarmast

2:28 AM

@NautArch I have reviewed the PHB, and it doesn't flow as effortlessly from topic to topic in char concept and chargen as I was recalling it without the book today. Arrgh, sorry for that misunderstanding.

Viishnahn

I've got a problem player/problem DM (me) issue I was wondering if I could discuss here with you guys.

KorvinStarmast

@Viishnahn Sure, I am here.

Viishnahn

By that, I mean I perceive it as a problem, but since I'm heavily involved in the situation, I could really use some outside perspective to help me see if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here.

KorvinStarmast

Ok, hit me.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Hey Korvin :)

KorvinStarmast

2:34 AM

@Viishnahn Howdy.

@Viishnahn Feel free to recline on the couch, first.

Viishnahn

I've got a player in my D&D 5E homebrew game that doesn't roleplay that much. This isn't an issue for the most part, but there's a few things he does/doesn't do that I feel would really benefit the verisimilitude/enjoyability of the game for others (or maybe just for me) if he did/didn't

KorvinStarmast

OK, seen that before. Each of us goes as far "in" as we are comfortable with.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Thanks, doc

I've talked to him about how much he likes and doesn't like, and I understand that RP isn't everyone's jam (at least not to the extent that I enjoy doing it)

That's the broad strokes, now for the fine details

KorvinStarmast

/me sips coffee ...

Viishnahn

He's playing a GOO Blade Pact Warlock with riding as a part of his backstory. Being a new DM, I gave him what amounts to a familiar mount horse with better stats and some resistances

KorvinStarmast

2:39 AM

Cool, sorta like a Paladin steed, ish?

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Yep, but Aberration type for flavor

KorvinStarmast

love the idea

Viishnahn

We're playing in a magic-outlawed setting (you may remember from earlier), so understandably he doesn't bring the horse out unless there's a real need (combat, travel, etc.)

My problem is just that: he never interacts with the horse unless he needs something from it. He just summons it when he needs it and then dismisses it immediately after when the task/travel is finished

It's a tool to him, a class feature to be used or disregarded as such

I'd really like for him to RP just a little of actual horse-keeping, brushing down, spending time with, etc.

BESW

Have you mentioned this to him?

Viishnahn

Just to show that the horse is more than a tool to him

BESW

2:42 AM

Specifically, that you think it'd be fun to have horsetime activities.

Viishnahn

@BESW I have. I'm not sure if I fully got my point across.

KorvinStarmast

Does the horse speak?

As he is GOO, is there some telepathy?

BESW

A few things off the top of my head... first, he may not have the schema for horsecare, and isn't confident he can roleplay it properly because he doesn't know what it entails.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast No. The horse doesn't need food or water (possible thing I may kick myself for later, but fits with flavor), and needs to spend 8h a day in its own pocket dimension (think Guenhwyvar from the Drizzt series)

BESW

Second, he may not want to. You gave him a horse; did he ask for it, or did you just decide he should have one?

You can lead a player to a horse but you can't make him RP with it.

KorvinStarmast

2:44 AM

Has this RL person ever had a pet, or lived with animals? To him, it may be seen as My bicycle

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast The horse has an intelligence of 6, so it can understand languages and communicate basic concepts, just like the Find Steed paladin spell. I plan on "upgrading" the horse later on to possibly include intelligence

@BESW He asked for it, but I went above and beyond and gave him a not-a-horse aberration horse

KorvinStarmast

If it has 6 Int, why not have some occasional "insight" checks so that he perceives the steed's emotions? Now and again, when the plot is a good fit for it.

BESW

Third, how does your group handle spotlighting? a scene of the warlock taking care of his horse is liable to sideline other players who just sit around and watch; that'd be a major reason I'd gloss over that sort of scene as a player.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Nope. Large part of the problem in my mind. He's a little sociopathic when it comes to kids and animals, quite honestly

@KorvinStarmast Great idea

KorvinStarmast

The first time or two it will be a surprise; sort of a mental nudge. (Have you read Robin Hobb's Farseer books?)

Viishnahn

2:46 AM

@BESW Fair point, but I wouldn't make it a huge scene, just that it occurred and that the horse seems to be feeling/looking better

@KorvinStarmast I haven't

KorvinStarmast

Rats, I was going to ref that, but no worries.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Broad strokes? I may add it to my short-to-medium list

BESW

If it were my group, I might consider suggesting that another PC with more animal experience offer to help the warlock learn how to take care of his new steed, and have a group scene where the warlock's player doesn't have to take point. One-on-one scenes where there's just a player and a GM are definitionally intense, he may be more open to it if he's sharing the spotlight.

KorvinStarmast

Initially, have an emotion come across, or an observation/insight that he's "not sure where it came from." But from a "horse" perspective.

Viishnahn

Both great ideas!

KorvinStarmast

2:48 AM

Hobb's Assassin Trilogy is very good. Boy to man, has an erratic abiity with magic, but communicates with beasts telepathically.

Viishnahn

@BESW Another detail that may or may not be relevant: He hasn't named his character. It's been 11 sessions and ~6 months and he still refuses to name his PC

KorvinStarmast

@BESW yeah, recruit another player as an ally to break the ice.

BESW

@Viishnahn That... may be symptomatic of a more significant underlying disconnect between his play expectations and yours.

KorvinStarmast

@Viishnahn Heh, do the other players have a nickname for him?

Viishnahn

I had an NPC suggest a name for the horse, and he was uncaring; essentially, he said "sure" with a shrug, and so the name stuck

KorvinStarmast

2:51 AM

Idea: let the horse name him ... that will take a bit of thought.

"good morning, Burden. Where are the oats today?" as a thought that arrives. :) or "good morning, saddle fill ... "

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast It used to be "Frank", but then all the PC's that knew the character originally either left or died

Shalvenay

@BESW I agree -- it's almost like he's expecting characters to be throwaway, not wanting any attachment to them?

Viishnahn

It's "The Black Rider" as a functioning name

KorvinStarmast

I meant "Do The Other Players Have a Nickname for the PC."

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast hehehehehe

KorvinStarmast

2:52 AM

I may have misunderstood what you were telling me.

Total group size? Other char classes?

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast They did have a name, it was "Frank". Then three of the other four players and PC's left the game and the other one's PC died. The joke is that no one who knew the nickname is still around/alive in the game anymore, so no one really uses it

KorvinStarmast

Ah, got it. So the new ones need to be gently prodded to give him a new nickname.

BESW

@Shalvenay That's one possibility, yeah. I've definitely encountered players who consider their PCs to be extensions of their mechanical agency in a tactical game, more than characters in a story; I've also encountered players who have learned to remain unattached to their PCs because they don't have fun when bad things happen to characters they've bonded with.

KorvinStarmast

They gotta call him something ... other than "Hey, you!"

Hmm, new name: Heyu ...

Viishnahn

@Shalvenay He's a friend (we go wayyyy back) and his usual PC style is to RP characters from a book/world setting that he's creating. This was his one exception, as it's in the same setting, and he was going for more of a Ringwraith vibe.

KorvinStarmast

2:56 AM

Heh, the man with no name. Call him Clint.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast lol

KorvinStarmast

Just spitballin' here ...

I still have a 70's era miniature that's a dwarf with two pistols and a Clint style wide brimmed hat. Often called "Dwarf With No Hame" as a riff off of a song by the band America (horse with no name)

BESW

America - A Horse With No Name+Lyrics

►

KorvinStarmast

That be the one ...

Gaagghh, I am old. I just realized I saw that band live 40 years ago in Maryland. Arggh.

Viishnahn

Think wisdom, not age :)

KorvinStarmast

3:00 AM

How big is the party your GOO Black Rider is in?

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Four PC's, and right now there's 3 DMPC's/NPC's that they're working with to escape an elemental dimension.

KorvinStarmast

hmmm, single digit levels, or double digit?

Viishnahn

GOO Blade Warlock w/ horse (actually factors into CR fight ratings a bit), homebrew Storm Oath Paladin, Long Death monk, and Horizon Walker ranger

level 5 rn

Shalvenay

@Viishnahn btw-- how does your setting handle things like elemental monks, that are sort of magical without actually being magical?

Viishnahn

dndbeyond.com/characters/subclasses/27930-oath-of-the-storm is the paladin's subclass if that link works

of which I stole 90% from another guy on dndbeyond

@Shalvenay Monks are so separated from society that people mostly ignore them, so it hasn't really come up

I've separated magic into a few different categories, as the setting plays around with a few different concepts related to it

So ki is its own unique thing, as is blood magic (Blood Hunter), and psionics

KorvinStarmast

3:06 AM

page not found, sadly. :(

Viishnahn

ah

It's private, so I wondered if that might be the case

I'll find the other one that I ripped off from

KorvinStarmast

I think the ranger would be the one to give him a nick name. You think the player is up for it?

Viishnahn

dndbeyond.com/characters/subclasses/… Try that <-

KorvinStarmast

haha, it came up!

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast Perhaps; the ranger's player just joined this last session.

Though the ranger is playing a sort of surly type, so nicknaming another character and sticking to it regardless of the consequences would probably fit

KorvinStarmast

3:10 AM

Ok, hope the various ideas we all tossed in are helpfu. I must get my beauty rest, as I work early in the AM. Be well, all. Hope the ranger's player is up for it.

Viishnahn

@KorvinStarmast I'm further along than when I started! Thanks, and I might be back to pick others' brains tomorrow or something, too

Viishnahn

3:30 AM

All I really want is to find a way to gently encourage better RP for this player, especially with his horse.

kviiri

5:18 AM

@Viishnahn Are they an experienced player, or a new one?

The Oracle

-1

Q: Can we suggest that questions best handled off site? If so, do we have forum / reddit threads to point these people to?

I've seen a number of similar theme questions that keep being put on hold for similar reasons. Their questions are not technical in nature, or encompass so many balance or design issues that it would take a rather lengthy back and forth to sort it out. This site excels at specific technical and...

discussion feature-request dungeons-and-dragons

kviiri

5:36 AM

I used to play with one friend, who is a hobbyist writer, who kept importing characters from his work without checking against what the game expects. It was a bit of a bother.

But I must add, it wasn't his fault. We were all very new to RPGs and if someone had said "table expectations" to me, I probably would've said gesundheit or somesuch.

trogdor

Lol

That's what I probably would have said several years ago too

That probably only changed around when we had played a little Fate

And started really branching out to a bunch of other systems

I recommend to anyone who is willing to try it to break out of the one or two things you usually play and just try a bunch of different stuff

2

kviiri

The novelist fellow is playing Pathfinder now, in a group I know literally nothing else about

trogdor

It really broadens what you can expect from your tabletop games

And no I don't mean switching from D&D to like,... Pathfinder XD

I mean try some fate, or Great Ork God's, or Lady Blackbird

Or Golden Sky Stories if you are ok with the premise, I realize it's a little niche, no violence (or at least heavily discouraged), playing basically as anime kid animals with magic more or less

The point is, I recommend branching out to some different stuff to any group willing to give that a shot

There's also Inspectres, sort of a Ghostbusters themed thing that seems fun

kviiri

5:58 AM

I'd like to play with him again and broaden his horizons

The only reason, I haven't is that that's also true for a buttload of easier-to-access people :)

trogdor

Yeah

Our group has scheduling issues a lot of the time

We can have a few weeks when people show up and then a couple months or more where no one does

XD

Thankfully we have a lot of shows and stuff on a backlog to watch when we have nothing else to do

kviiri

6:23 AM

I think I'**

I think I'll shelve that 7th Sea campaign :(

Or wait, "shelve" means to keep on hold for an undetermined time right? And "can" would be to just pull the plug

BESW

Shelve = store for later (on a shelf)
Can = put in the trash(can)

kviiri

Hah, for some reason I always assumed can referred to tin cans

English and its happy little idioms <3

I'll table the motion to shelve the verbing of furniture.

trogdor

Lol

"can" can also be used to tell people to stop doing something, usually talking

"can it you chuckleheads"

XD

Mike Q

"can" could also mean to put in a can for long-term storage, so...

trogdor

It's a strange word for those uses for sure

@MikeQ true that one too

To can some food for instance

Like tuna or beans or soup

ravery

7:38 AM

rpg.stackexchange.com/a/132096/42354 Does the diagram add to the answer in regards to my first paragraph? or should I delete it?

@NautArch ^^

Tiggerous

Anyone with any experience playing (or running a game with) a sword and board Ranger in 5e?

(I realise it's a fairly niche combination)

kviiri

8:00 AM

Nope, but if you have a question regarding it you might still get helpful answers :)

Tiggerous

I'm trying to workshop a concept for a friend.

Basically I'm concerned that having a shield equipped seems to remove nearly all of the ranged options. I had thought a hand crossbow was the way forward but I've realised even that requires a free hand to load. I'm planning this to be a melee based ranger primarily but not having a good ranged option at all feels wrong - was just wondering what enyone else had donw to get round that?

BESW

I don't know 5e, but in the previous two editions there have been weapon enchantments for self-loading crossbows and/or floating shields that don't take a hand; more mundanely there's often a smaller shield which straps to the arm and you can choose per round to either have a shield bonus or a free hand.

Might check if 5e has similar options.

(I've also seen crossbows with magazines of bolts so you can fire maybe five times before needing to reload.)

Tiggerous

One solution is to bite the bullet and go full STR based, and give him Javelins instead (with Disadvantage over 30 feet).

@BESW Thanks - No RAW weapon enchantments that do exactly that AFAIK - floating shields exist but wouldn't be common at low levels - there's no smaller shield (buckler option) specifically, but that might be reasonable houserule.

BESW

8:48 AM

To get into one of the reasons why I keep railing against the idea that FAE and Fate Core are separate things or systems…

Tweeted by fredhicks on September 20, 2018 at 4:45 PM

Szega

How could I draw attention to a question where I have contested the standing answer? I do not want to offer a bounty to myself, that seems wrong.

Tiggerous

Post it here?

You'd at least get an idea of whether added exposure is likely to side with you or just give more upvotes to the standing answer.

BESW

Just posting the answer pushes it to the post of the "active questions" list, which helps.

Tiggerous

True - I was assuming the answer was already posted.

Szega

Oh yeah, I have posted it. I always look at "Newest", not "Active" so I forgot that.

BESW

9:01 AM

I always use "active."

Szega

It is this btw: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/115820/…

BESW

....But I also often have my blacklist tags completely hidden, unless I'm feeling particularly optimistic about doing my civil duty that day.

Carcer

@Szega it seems unlikely you're going to get much traction when crawford is on record as explicitly ruling the other way

Szega

@Carcer Ehh true. I still stand by my statement.

I hate that the designers didn't bother to write stuff properly and have to RAI it all the time...

Tiggerous

@Szega I'm afraid I agree with Carcer - bring that question back to the front page is most likely just going to earn Rubiksmoose more upvotes. Whether or he's right RAW the JC quotes make it look pretty conclusive.

Carcer

9:13 AM

I definitely agree that the rules as written shouldn't actually let you target through total cover

Szega

@Tiggerous Well, I'm not jealous of RM, they can have all the upvotes. I wanted to present the proper reading of the RAW.

Carcer

I would suggest editing the answer to clarify it's a RAW reading, disregarding as-intended commentary

Szega

@Carcer I do not think you have to indicate RAW, that is the default. I fear it would turn into / be taken as ranting about JC-type RAI.

Carcer

fair enough, it's your answer.

Miniman

@Szega Not to worry, I'll bounty it.

Rubiksmoose

10:18 AM

@Szega I think your answer is good but I still disagree and think my reading is proper regardless of RAI

Also nothing wrong with putting a bounty on the question yourself BTW. I've done it in cases where the top/accepted answer is lacking or wrong but I've put a better one before

Joel Harmon

11:22 AM

@Tiggerous Consider using a feat to get him a damaging cantrip, which are generally ranged.

kviiri

11:53 AM

@Tiggerous Thrown weapons are one option

Rubiksmoose

1:18 PM

@Szega I'm actually coming around on your answer I think. The point about the clear path to the target is interesting because generally that is thought of as the same rule as total cover rule. But I guess technically they are separate? It is kind of weird.

@Szega If I do come around I may write my own answer contradicting my current one. Though if you add a section discussion RAI I may not need to. I think discussing the RAI is important here because that information is out there and people know about it. Telling people that RAW and RAI conflict is important information so they can make a decision on how to play the rule at their table. (IMO)

Szega

@Rubiksmoose I am unsure how to address RAI here, because there have been multiple occasions where JC has retracted a ruling he made (in haste I presume)

So relying on that kinda RAI is shaky

Rubiksmoose

@Szega I'm not saying to rely on it perse but to acknowledge it.

Szega

@Rubiksmoose You may be right that it would make the answer more complete.

Rubiksmoose

If I wrote an answer from your perspective right now I would bascially just swap your RAW section for the one in my current answer and then change the first sentence to say that RAW and RAI disagree and that tables and DMs are free to choose which interpretation they wish to follow.

Szega

@Rubiksmoose Thats the problem: they are always free to do that. And for a Q like this, that should not be the answer, I feel.

How spells work is a design question, you cannot "just feel it" as there is no real world basis

Rubiksmoose

1:27 PM

@Szega Sure DM are free to do whatever. But this is a specific ruling by the designer and many people take that word as law (which I disagree with but that is another matter) that supercedes what is written in the books.

Szega

@Rubiksmoose Well, the tweets are presented as a sort of errata... intentionally or not

Rubiksmoose

@Szega There is a pragmatic effect as well though: you won't have to deal with comments or downvotes because "JC disagrees" if you preempt them and acknowledge it.

Not saying you have to, but I find it very useful to at least say if the designer disagrees and why that doesn't matter or shouldn't matter for RAW and how it clearly differs.

In this case, I think I agree that what they intended is not what they wrote.

I also find it clears my conscience a bit because I like at least giving a nod to the fact that an authoritative source disagrees with my RAW interpretation since (as we are seeing here) there are indeed multiple ways to read RAW.

(not saying you have to do so or whatever. Just my 0.02)

Just what I would do and what I may do if I think you are right here.

BTW talking about this question on sacred flame for all those just joining :)

My view is that answers should be of the greatest benefit to the answer-seeker and if there are multiple "correct" answers out there I will point them all out and give the reader the options laid out. If one is clearly superior I like to point out the reasons for that.

Colin Gross

So no more using scry to shoot around corners?

Rubiksmoose

@Szega I've removed my checkmark btw until I'm confident again. That will give your answer also a greater chance to shine I think if people are wanting to vote that way.

Szega

@Rubiksmoose Thanks. I have added a mention of JC in the podcast.

Colin Gross

1:39 PM

Magnanimous of you.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross I'm a magnanimous god.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose More like an "oh gawd"

Rubiksmoose

lol

Cyberspark

@Rubiksmoose @Rubiksmoose regarding your answer, it seems a little self-defeating, unless I'm misunderstanding. One of the requirements of Total Cover is "A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle." So, I'm not sure how you can have Total Cover and still be visible?

Sir Cinnamon

@Cyberspark Glass dome?

Rubiksmoose

1:47 PM

@Cyberspark Or wall of force is another commonish scenario.

Cyberspark

@SirCinnamon I guess, feels a little weird though. Seems that considering that, Total Cover is a little poorly defined. Because it's used both for being unable to be seen and blocking direct paths

Rubiksmoose

@Cyberspark ACtually cover has nothing to do with sight (though I still agree that is a bit unclear)

Cyberspark

@SirCinnamon And as you point out, those clearly aren't always the same thing.

Rubiksmoose

cover only has to do with physical obstacles in the way.

Cyberspark

@Rubiksmoose Total Cover explicitly calls out that if you're completely concealed by an obstacle you have Total Cover.

@Rubiksmoose Surely by that logic darkness can provide Total Cover

Rubiksmoose

1:50 PM

@Cyberspark Correct, but concealed in this case was not intended to speak to visibility at all.

Szega

@Cyberspark That is concealment, not cover

Cyberspark

@Szega "A target with total cover can't be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle." In particular the last sentence.

Rubiksmoose

The clear-path rule is about there being a path clear of total cover. It's not about visibility. #DnD https://twitter.com/philmordeshev/status/798361968088387584

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on November 15, 2016 at 3:16 AM

Szega

@Cyberspark Darkness is not an obstacle, though

Cyberspark

@Szega Yeah, I guess. Feels weird, but I retract my objection.

Rubiksmoose

1:53 PM

Yeah I'm not saying that they couldn't or shouldn't have been much more clear about this, but I think that is widely accepted as the way to apply the rules.

Cyberspark

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, it's the way that makes the most sense too considering the way the spell seems designed to behave.

Tiggerous

2:08 PM

I personally would definitely rule, in my own game, that you can cast Sacred Flame on a target that has Total Cover as long as you can see them (Behind a window etc.). If Sacred Flame descends and centres on a person from above then in my own headcannon if it can't get past a window then it would be completely useless in the underdark.

Szega

@Tiggerous This is why there should always be a clear demarcation between fluff and mechanics.

Tiggerous

@Szega Knowing it was just 'fluff' wouldn't annoy me any less if it was logically inconsistent.

Szega

2:31 PM

@Tiggerous True, but then it wouldn't confuse us regarding how it should work. I would much more readily disregard fluff.

Rubiksmoose

Of course in 5e there "is no fluff" [eyeroll]

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose I'd be cool with sacred flame being useless in the underdark, depending on one's deity. You are out of their line of sight, after all =)

(But I'm of the opinion that exotic locations should be mechanically exotic, not just fluff-exotic.)

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 hahaha but my poor Lathander cleric!

nitsua60

(In my Shadowfell nobody with fey ancestry ever gains the benefits of a long rest.)

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 That is really cool.

Tiggerous

2:36 PM

@nitsua60 That sounds like a harsh environment!

nitsua60

@Tiggerous For people descended from the feywild? Sure is.

But I also walk around with a pocket protector, even in the Hawaiian shirt I'm wearing today. I'm clearly not to be followed =D

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 How could anybody possibly even try! You are just too far ahead of the curve ;)

NautArch

3:26 PM

Walk away for ameeting and come back to a question about testicle crushing. what a day!

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Right?!

BTW I don't think it is a dupe?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, I dnot think it is, either. but it was close enough to suggest it for others to consider.

because ultimately, f you're trying to hit and hurt, that's aiming and attacking

and then you're in teh realm of that question.

They seem to be assuming autohit

Carcer

torture doesn't fall within the realms of something that is meant to be resolved by combat mechanics

Rubiksmoose

@Carcer Or really any mechanics honesty

torture is a no-go at our table

NautArch

@Carcer That's probably a DM decision as to how(or if) they want to do that.

@Rubiksmoose no evil campaigns? muahaahhahahaahah

Carcer

3:30 PM

I suspect the question wouldn't have so many downvotes if he'd just said "we tortured the dude a bit" rather than having to specify they stomped on his balls

Rubiksmoose

@Carcer I agree. Maybe I'll help out and edit that out.

I think it is a less ridiculous question than it seems. on its face.

NautArch

@ravery My personal ability to review your diagram work is just not there. I can't confirm if it's correctly diagrammed or not. That's something for the english stack :)

Xirema

Yeah, I think it's a reasonable question, framed in an unnecessarily gruesome manner.

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema Yeah I agree

Hmm apparently SSD disagreed with me changing the title.

Xirema

Hmm. They're the mod, so I guess they get higher priority. Definitely agreed with the title change though.

Rubiksmoose

3:43 PM

@Xirema I just thought it might reduce the gruesomeness of the title such that people wouldn't have a visceral negative reaction to it but [shrug].

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I'm on SSDs side on that, but I also don't love making edits at that level in general.

Xirema

The question's already been downvote bombed, so at this point, it's sort of moot.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch It was only a title edit. Anybody who read the body would have gotten the same info.

nitsua60

4:47 PM

@Rubiksmoose I think the core mechanic has it: player describes action, GM decides if a roll is necessary, GM narrates outcome. In step 2 I probably don't default to combat mechanics, but it might be an ability check. Persuasion/Intimidation (Str), perhaps?

(Of course, if this happens at my table before step 2 engages we have a table-level convo about what we want in our game. Because I really don't care for visceral descriptions of violence, but I may be in the minority at a table.)

In other news, TIL I can do a John Larroquette impression. So I'm filing that one away in my "NPC go-to" file =)

NautArch

@nitsua60 @Rubiksmoose I'd probably still require an attack roll if someone was trying to physically hurt someone. Just for the pure joy of them rolling an automiss 1 and the subsequent narration.

@nitsua60 Sounds like you need to do a courtroom encounter...in the evening.

nitsua60

@NautArch [slap bass]

NautArch

@nitsua60 maybe also have a wizard...illusionist?

nitsua60

5:08 PM

Bull's definitely a goliath. I think the artist actually knew Richard Moll.

NautArch

Flo a hag?

NOw I really want to build this encounter and see if my players pick up on it

nitsua60

Mel Torme, the Bard20 makes cameos....

NautArch

@nitsua60 hahahahaha

nitsua60

(It was Mel Torme, right? It's been a loooong time.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 it was

Rubiksmoose

6:51 PM

@nitsua60 Good point, I don't actually say the core mechanic in my answer. I will add it. I would lean toward the exact same things depending on the circumstances. I don't think I would have this be a damage thing at all.

@nitsua60 Well you aren't alone here. Torture is straight up banned at our table.

Colin Gross

7:51 PM

@Rubiksmoose My players quickly found out that the information gleaned from it was useless.

Axoren

@ColinGross Similarly, Speak with Dead tends to work poorly if you're the one who killed them.

Yuuki

@Axoren "What are you going to do? Kill me again?" - Ghost who was exorcised

Axoren

@Yuuki "I'll tell you, honest! Cross my heart and hope to die!"

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross Good call lol

Axoren

Also, Speak With Dead miraculously does not give a crap about whether or not your soul is around.

It's like plugging in an old laptop without internet.

Mike Q

7:58 PM

If the players want to capture an NPC and they all decide that torture is the best route, I'd consider it

I'd probably pause and make sure everyone's okay with it, and maybe I'd fast-forward through parts of it

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