TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

16:00

I think that D III is the game they wanted to make when they made D I, but computers and graphics weren't ready yet.

And I do miss my Amazons. :( On the other hand, the new necromancers are fun enough.

Yuuki

I haven't played it.

The new Necromancer, that is.

I have played Diablo III. The Crusader was fun, especially when you go for the Captain America build.

KorvinStarmast

The Necro has a different feel; why not try it out next season? I think season changeover is in about a week.

Yuuki

Isn't it paid DLC?

KorvinStarmast

gotta go, afk, cheers to all.

GreySage

@Yuuki yup, I think its half off right now

Yuuki

16:02

Mmm... I'm spending too much time on Monster Hunter to justify buying DLC for another game right now.

Colin Gross

@Yuuki That's me and Rimworld currently. I should be writing my next two campaigns and building some interesting proof of concept one shots... but no.. 4 hours of Rimworld.

Xirema

TFW, in trying to revise Warlocks to be more consistent with other Spellcasters, you accidentally invent Bards.

Or maybe Sorcerers, depending on whether you think "Bard + made a pact with an unsavory being" or "Sorcerer + made a pact with an unsavory being" is more similar to the basic concept of a Warlock.

Shalvenay

@Xirema s/unsavory/supernatural

since when were eladrin unsavory? or the leaders of the Seelie Court for that matter?

Rubiksmoose

16:20

@Carcer hahaha well I just updated my answer to be even more party poopery

NautArch

17:08

@Rubiksmoose yours and @KorvinStarmast are great answers

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Daww thanks for saying so. I honestly like Korvin's quite a bit more because it deals with the issue not as a rules issue but from a game standpoint.

But I'm not saying mine isn't helpful. Were I a DM in their shoes I would hopefully find such feedback about the rules helpful.

@Shalvenay Well they certainly aren't sweet...

Shalvenay

hey there @Davo, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

NautArch

17:23

@Shalvenay based on my limitation knowledge solely gleaned from the dreseden files...seelie court seems unseemly :)

Davo

17:36

Is this new Explorers' Guild just a bunch of internet noise, or has anyone seen anything happening IRL?

facebook.com/groups/244118756314568

Rubiksmoose

@Davo This is the first I've heard of it

Davo

It's for people who want to keep playing in organized play, but with AL Season 7 rules, and no PHB+1 limit. Everything else is RAW, no homebrew.

Some buzz about it on reddit.

Colin Gross

So it's a fork of AL?

Davo

Yes.

Colin Gross

Hmmm... does it have blockchain?

Rubiksmoose

17:44

Yeah that what it looks like. I mean all the power to them, but it doesn't really stand a chance unless people can find other people playing by those rules right?

Are people really that upset by the AL rules change?

Davo

Right. But they say you can bring your AL S7 legal character and continue it there.

goo.gl/fs5cnn is the rulebook.

GreySage

@Rubiksmoose What is the rules change?

Rubiksmoose

@Davo Right, but the fun part about organized play is that you are playing with people all over the place that are playing with the same rules and progressing the same way.

Colin Gross

Oh they don't want PHB+1? That's actually getting closer to homebrew UA than with the rule.

Davo

From the FB post:

EXPLORERS' GUILD RESOURCES

EG Campaign Manual: https://goo.gl/fs5cnn
Official EG Discord: https://discord.gg/GSWzf28
Magic Item Trading: https://goo.gl/iKg6VE
Current Sage Advice rulings: https://goo.gl/tDK49e
Map of players & venues (be sure to add yourself and any nearby EG-friendly game shops!): https://goo.gl/Dao9kU

WHAT IS EXPLORERS' GUILD?

* 3rd-party organized play alternative to Adventurers League.
* 100% RAW (Rules As Written), no homebrew allowed.
* NO PHB+1! Characters may draw from any number of legal supplements as per the RAW 5e rules.

Colin Gross

17:46

My impression was the phb+1 rule was to limit the number of interactions that could occur... and to expedite play testing. New material only requires considering interaction with PHB material.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross According to that group PHB+1 is "an anti-RAW homebrew introduced by AL".

Davo

lol

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage They changed some of the loot rules as to how loot gets divided and they also are banning some items but allowing people to choose new ones from what I remember.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose One of the hallmarks of homebrew is that it's not playtested. Allowing interactions beyond PHB+1 is ostensibly not playtested.

I'd say that's getting closer to homebrew not further.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross I mean PHB+1 is not even a thing that is listed in the rules. Only in AL rules.

goodguy5

17:49

I think there is a minor benefit to phb+1

less "let me check the book(s)"

Davo

@Rubiksmoose Right.

Rubiksmoose

@Davo Right? That seems like an awfully overblown response.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose True. The RAW is pretty loosey goosey when it comes to materials/inspiration to include in your own game

GreySage

@goodguy5 And fewer books the DM needs to own/have on hand

Colin Gross

It's like playing golf with friends... mulligan for flock of geese... sure.

Playing in the PGA, no mulligans.

Which is BS. Candada geese are mean.

Davo

17:50

But PHB+1 is an AL rule, not a D&D rule.

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage Technically anyways, though at a table where everyone chose a different +1 you could very well end up with the exact same amount of books.

Not that I'm against the rule or anything.

Davo

I only own PHB and XGE; PHB+1 is not my argument, but it is part of this EG initiative.

Xirema

My understanding was that the point of the PHB+1 rule was to make the barrier-to-entry cheaper for newer players. So that they wouldn't feel like they needed to have every single book to compete with the munchkin builds players would otherwise come up with.

Colin Gross

@Davo D&D is pretty permissive about what you can include or how to run the game. Isn't one of the opening instructions about modifying the rules to suit your campaign?

Davo

Yep

Rubiksmoose

17:53

It is a rule that frusterates a lot of players. For example, when you create a character using not XGE as a +1 it means you cannot use any of the spells from XGE.

Colin Gross

@Xirema I hadn't considered that aspect. Good point.

Davo

I read posts about Hexblade + GFB, but that's not AL legal. For example.

Xirema

In general, I do think the negatives of the PHB+1 rule outweigh the positives, but I do think some of the positives are important to consider.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Frustrates AL players?

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross Yeah AL players.

Colin Gross

17:54

@Xirema I really really hate having to run or rule about corner cases. Limiting corner cases is a big sell for me.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross I'm not sure it really helps with that honestly.

goodguy5

^

Xirema

PHB+1 usually only costs around $50-70 depending on where you buy your books. To buy all the current 5e source books, it's on the order of $150-200. That's a pretty big difference, and it'll only get more substantial a difference as more sourcebooks get released.

Colin Gross

Limits the min/max combinations that can interact in a single character.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross Does it though? Just because material comes from another book doesn't mean it is going to have any more or less edge cases than material chosen from the same book.

Xirema

17:57

@ColinGross Also a good point, though I haven't observed that there are a ton of broken interactions that occur cross-book. Most of the broken 5e mechanics come broken out-of-the-box.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Cuts down on the combinatorial explosion of feats/spells/features that can be employed by a single character.

@Xirema Yeah.. and the neat ones are rare enough to get names like "coffeelock"

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross [shrug] I guess so.

I don't buy that argument though. There are so many broken edge cases with just the PHB that there really isn't that much benefit IMO.

2

Colin Gross

I can deal with edge cases. It's when edge cases run into each other than you end up with corner cases

By that time I've painted myself in with the analogy and have no place else to go

GreySage

So I just looked into all the experience check points and treasure points stuff, and it doesn't really seem that problematic

Colin Gross

What was the supposed problems with it?

GreySage

18:00

They make a lot of sense given that the quality and style of DMs will vary wildly over a given characters life span

Rubiksmoose

But again, I don't really care or have a strong feeling overall towards it. I don't play organized play because I think it is kind of silly. I like DMing with the freedom to modify whatever I like and we don't really care about sharing a ruleset with a bunch of other people. Though, I totally get why some people would and do.

GreySage

@ColinGross Hyper-Corners!

I still find it very strange that AL has all these expansive rules on character progression, magic item acquisition, etc, and literally zero way to enforce any of those rules

Rubiksmoose

I offered to DM AL for my FLGS to help them out (and I'm sure I'd have fun with it)

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose I have a hard time organizing play with just my friends.

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose yeah, I'm in the same boat here -- I like to tinker with worldbuilding things myself and that's not really compatible with pregen modules, never mind AL

Colin Gross

18:02

@GreySage Needs more blockchain

GreySage

There is nothing stopping someone from creating a character at any level, with any wealth, with any items, and just printing out the required material themselves

Colin Gross

Just have the gm compute the hash of each character sheet signed with their private key.

Easy. (requires human patch 1.2 or above)

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage There are some safeguards. Some items require cerftificates. Advancement and item gaining gets signed off by a site representative at the end of every session. But yeah most of that is trivially easy to circumvent.

Maximillian

Hurricane camera: youtube.com/watch?v=deG4NxkouGM

Yuuki

@Maximillian I think I'm deaf.

GreySage

18:05

@Rubiksmoose Just print out your own certificate, and say "yeah I played a session with my friends (friends and family games are AL legal IIRC), I got this thing and I'm this level now"

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage Yeah it is trivial to circumvent.

GreySage

If they limited AL play to ONLY stores etc, that'd be one thing, but you can host an AL game anywhere

Colin Gross

@GreySage I assumed that's how most characters worked anyway.

GreySage

Which leads me to wonder, why bother with all the rules?

Colin Gross

@GreySage Structure and fun?

Rubiksmoose

18:07

@GreySage It is a case where everyone agrees that cheating the system is just kind of undermining the fun even for that person. People enjoy playing with a network of other people.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Probably is somewhat self selecting.

Looking at the EG document, "Any character may choose to worship a deity, but only clerics are required to."

Is that RAW? are clerics required to select a deity?

Yuuki

In AL, yes IIRC.

But RAW, no.

I think.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki I also think this, but am not sure lol

Colin Gross

Yeah... looking at the PHB looks like clerics are required to but paladins not so much.

NautArch

@ColinGross paladins definitely don't need a deity, but whether or not their power ultimately comes from a deity is up to the player and DM working together.

Colin Gross

18:16

Then you get into the deities of the multiverse section, and it's pretty much anything goes. Worship the Sun and pray to Joe Pesci... sure.

Xirema

My Paladin in 5e is a Secularist, so the DM has ruled that she basically draws her power from within herself. Which sort of makes her a non-Divine Divine Soul?

Shalvenay

@Xirema heheh

Colin Gross

Mechanically, the domain for the cleric looks like it's the required selection

NautArch

@Xirema paladin's can 100% RAW derive power from themselves.

Colin Gross

@NautArch It's from an ideal, correct?

Xirema

18:19

@ColinGross The way RAW describes it, their power is indeed fueled by the strength of their convictions.

Davo

I'd prefer to play in a regular group, but organizing adults' schedules is the opposite of fun. Hence, the ease of AL. Availble? Sign up on meetup. Busy? Don't.

I may try a discord game to see how that goes.

Yuuki

@Xirema The real paladin was inside of you all along.

Mike Q

But playing with random strangers can be problematic, because odds are you're playing a different game each time you show up

People assume that D&D (5e) is one game. It is not. It's a toolset for running games.

Davo

Yes, no continuity and just a random hodge-podge of characters.

Colin Gross

@MikeQ Western marches?

Rubiksmoose

18:23

It is certainly a different style of play then one usually shoots for around their own table. Then again, that is not accidental and AL play has their own goals that don't involve replicating the same experience you can have with friends at home.

Shalvenay

@Davo yeah, online play is quite helpful in expanding the pool of potential games/players available to you

Yuuki

@Xirema Sorta. It's a combination of convictions and an oath. No matter how much you believe that purging a city is the right thing to do, it violates your Oath of Devotion.

Colin Gross

@Yuuki Oath of Vengeance always reads like the Punisher to me.

Yuuki

That's when you journey to the north, find a cursed sword, kill your friends, burn your ships, team up with a creepy spider dude, and become the host of the master of the undead.

Colin Gross

Oath of Nature could get you to purge a city.

Yuuki

18:24

Is there an Oath of Nature?

NautArch

@Yuuki depends. Is the city bad news bears? Yeah, you canpurge that.

Mike Q

@Yuuki Oath of Ancients is generally about nature and "old world" and whatnot

Yuuki

I think you mean Oath of the Ancients?

Colin Gross

@Yuuki Isn't that because you're trying to live up to being your dad?

GreySage

@Yuuki in other words, Oathbreaker

Yuuki

18:26

And then afterwards, you become the final boss of probably the best expansion, leading to endless disappointment for years.

Colin Gross

@Yuuki At least you get a permanent butt chilling seat.

NautArch

Pretty much any oath can be twisted to fit a narrative. BUt it's about how you're twisting it and working with your DM to determine if you're violating it or not.

Yuuki

I wouldn't mind playing a narrative where my paladin decides to break their oath. Though not sure how that would happen without it becoming an evil campaign.

goodguy5

I mean.... the easiest is the .... oath of... mercy? or whatever

basically you go from batman to punisher

both are "good" guys

Colin Gross

@Yuuki Evil from what point of view?

GreySage

18:29

@Yuuki I could see an evil Oath of Vengence going to a good Oathbreaker

Yuuki

@ColinGross I don't know, I'm lost.

goodguy5

oath of the ancients wouldn't be terribly difficult either.

decide that humanoid-kind is more important

Colin Gross

@Yuuki Usually happens to me too when wading into G/E delineations.

GreySage

Oath of Conquest is almost explicitly evil as it is

goodguy5

ooooh

Oath of Conquest into Oath of the Ancients would be fun

Colin Gross

18:30

@GreySage Depending on what you're conquesting, but I did read that as intented to be evil as well.

Yuuki

@ColinGross Look, all I'm saying is that it's preposterous to be on the Council and yet not a Master.

Mike Q

There's the Oath of Treachery from UA, it's very evil-flavored, and arguably antithetical to the classic paladin concept

Yuuki

It's unfair.

Colin Gross

@Yuuki I dunno... maybe you're really good at tech support

@MikeQ Classically there was also an anit-paladin in 2e

GreySage

You can always betray Oath of the Crown when you find out the king is evil, and become something else

goodguy5

18:32

@ColinGross well 2e also had specific alignment restrictions

NautArch

@Yuuki Ani-Paladin?

Yuuki

@NautArch Classic Oath of Devotion to Oath of Conquest.

NautArch

classic anakin

Xirema

Oath of Ancients is rather interesting in terms of the flexibility it provides. Depending on which parts of the flavor you prioritize, it ranges from "hippie flower child spreading peace and love throughout the kingdom" to "Eco-Terrorist defending the Wilds from the destructive humans/humanoids".

Colin Gross

@goodguy5 And an absolute alignment system.

goodguy5

18:34

yea

Mike Q

Although 2e's alignment system was just Law-Chaos, right? No good-evil axis mess?

Colin Gross

I could totally see a Oath of Conquest paladin being good.

GreySage

@Xirema Sure, just because I burned down an entire forest to kill a logging camp, suddenly I'm an "Eco-Terrorist".

goodguy5

@MikeQ I'm pretty sure it also had good and evil

Colin Gross

Actually, might write a short series of one shots about it.

goodguy5

18:35

though, it's been a while

Colin Gross

@GreySage Was it one of those forests where the ecology depends on the occasional fire?

Because then you'd be hella good

Like... hella

Yuuki

@NautArch You underestimate the number of Divine Smites I have left.

Mike Q

@Yuuki I have advantage due to having the high ground

Colin Gross

@MikeQ 2e had G,N,E and C, N, L

GreySage

@MikeQ That's not RAW

Xirema

18:36

@NautArch It's over Anakin! I have the High Ground! That gives me a +5 bonus to my AC and gives you disadvantage on melee attacks!

NautArch

@Xirema Hello there!

how many memes can we get in on this?

Colin Gross

@GreySage Oh yee of 5e faith.

goodguy5

didn't 3e have a blurb in the dmg for high ground?

Colin Gross

@NautArch It's memes all the way down.

Xirema

@NautArch I think we just start plagiarizing Darths and Droids and see how long it takes to exhaust our supply.

NautArch

18:37

@ColinGross once we get past all those damn turtles (or barbarians)

Mike Q

Hate leads to anger, and anger causes an alignment shift to the dark side

GreySage

@NautArch Or centaurs

Carcer

@MikeQ pretty sure it was pre-1e D&D which only had the order/neutral/chaos axis

certainly my AD&D manuals have the classic two-axis alignment system

Yuuki

@Carcer The sacred splatbooks!

Maximillian

I didn't allow 'Complete Ninja' at my table. >:|

goodguy5

18:39

what's that weird splatbook that we don't talk about? the sex one

I can never recall the name

Maximillian

The Book of Erotic Fantasy in 3rd ed?

Mike Q

Darth Plagueis the Wise was a level 1 cleric who knew Spare the Dying

goodguy5

is that the one? I thought it was in 2e

Mike Q

His apprentice killed him in his sleep because sleeping characters are considered Helpless

Maximillian

"It's not a tale the dungeon master would tell you."

Mike Q

18:41

"I am the senate! It says so on my character sheet!"

Yuuki

I don't like spell components. They're coarse and irritating. And they get everywhere without a pouch.

Maximillian

2E material components were not fun. Not all of them had a gold equivalent and were strange.

Strange even for wizards.

Colin Gross

@Maximillian Want to know what I always found confusing about 2e... the weights were in terms of gp as well.

You weren't only worth your weight in gold, your weight was expressed in terms of gold pieces.

Maximillian

Also when the party finds gold, be sure to run it all through the hands of the rogue, he gets XP per coin.

Wizards, at the end of the day, cast all remaining spells, I believe those are 200 x level in XP

Colin Gross

@Maximillian I don't recall what the spell failure results were for 2e, but I do recall you did not want that to happen.

Also, the time to memorize spells was proportional to the level of the spell.

Xirema

18:53

To have no outstanding traits or features is to be Human, Anakin.

Maximillian

Here's your free feat and skill point, Anakin.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross seriously?!

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Yeah. Can't find my UA book, but that's where I think there were rules about spell casting fizzling and stuff

Xirema

Anakin is an Aasimar. Change my mind.

GreySage

@Xirema He's half-medichlorian

Colin Gross

18:57

@Rubiksmoose Nope. That was 1st edition. AD&D has stuff listed in lbs.

Maximillian

First edition. Choose your class: Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Thief, Elf, Halfling, Dwarf

Colin Gross

Just realizing we mixed material from the early editions as kids. Whatever... it all had ThAC0.

Maximillian

Gasp! HE SPEAKS OF THAC0.

It's okay kids, just look at the Thac0 is Wack0 poster and other materials we've provided to the class.

GreySage

@Maximillian I have this sudden urge to look up if I hit or not on an ugly complicated table...

Colin Gross

@Maximillian Doesn't help you with the AC adjustment tables per weapon and range. You're still borked.

Xirema

19:01

Having never played 1e, and having done only 90 seconds of research in the last two minutes, it looks like THAC0 is a metric of making character level itself a scaling factor in hitting creatures.

Am I mistaken?

Shalvenay

speed factor initiative groans

Colin Gross

Actually, it was a clever way of teaching Americans algebra

Carcer

THAC0 is just attack bonus approached from the other direction

Maximillian

@Shalvenay Optional rules for AC being different values depending on being hit with Pierce, Slashing, or Bludgeoning.

Colin Gross

ThAC0 actually avoided having to tabulate high bonuses to rolls.

Shalvenay

19:04

@Maximillian uh yeah, that continued into 3.x with per-damage-type AC bonuses

Colin Gross

Fighter needs a 14 to hit an AC0 monster... and the AC is 2. Fighter needs to roll a 12.

Xirema

Oh, so AC was reversed in 1e.....

Colin Gross

Something good to let the players contemplate while the wizard lines up his billiards style banking lightning bolt to cook all the enemies and hopefully not have enough distance left over to kill himself.

Carcer

yes, in 1e/2e your AC is a modifier applied to enemy attack rolls

Colin Gross

@Xirema Yeah. Low AC was good.

Carcer

19:06

so lower is better

Maximillian

Negative AC was the goal for your tanks.

Colin Gross

Basically, your AC was the bonus to hit you.

GreySage

@ColinGross I take off all my clothes, certainly now I don't have any armor class at all, MWUAHAHA!

Maximillian

Younger me did not have great math skills, so I had to write down my whole THAC0 range on my sheet

Colin Gross

@GreySage That's one way to draw your circle of protection

Carcer

19:07

@GreySage "Unarmored" AC is like 8 or 9 or something, specifically

Colin Gross

@Maximillian And now you know how arrays and indexing work.

"builds character" right?

Holy heck we put up with a lot of cumbersome bs in previous iterations. Why the hec... oh yeah... no internet.

Maximillian

Saving throws in 2E.

Poison types.

Type E poison. Death or 50.

50 triggers crushing blow damage, if taken literally

Colin Gross

Oh yeah, if the fighter has to save... just start rolling a new character

their spell save was like 18 or something nuts.

The wizard was like an 8 or a 10... basically a 50/50 to save against spells.

I don't recall if clerics got better saves than wizards.

Maximillian

Oh man. Cleric rules.

"No bleeding weapons."

Shalvenay

@Maximillian clearly whoever wrote that hasn't considered the thought of what'd happen if you hit someone hard enough in the head with a hammer for their skull to shatter

@Maximillian also, what do you do when the party cleric starts going tooth and claw on you?

Colin Gross

19:15

@Maximillian hematomas and hemorrhaging didn't count apparently.

Oh man... wights... level drain

I forgot about that BS

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross Level drain was still a thing in 3.5 even

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose can confirm

Rubiksmoose

I remember it super sucking even then

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose "super sucking" XD

Rubiksmoose

Now a trademarked phrase of RubiksMoose Inc.

We sell vacuums

Maximillian

19:22

Shadow Dragons had Negative Energy breath that was level drain. As an AOE.

Rubiksmoose

@Maximillian wooooooooooow.

not cool.

Maximillian

There were a number of fantastical and unfair monsters.

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ That was original D&D - three little brown books. L/N/C. Bx/BECMI had LG+CG+N+LE+CE. An interesting compromise. 1e and 2e AD&D had the full two axis grid.

@Maximillian Nope, that was not first edition. That was Original D&D.

And IIRC BX/BECMI

Shalvenay

19:56

hey there @Helwar

Colin Gross

@Maximillian The level drain ones were the worst because they left the character alive. A lot of the unfairness of 2nd was see who fails the death save first kind of encounters.

You died or the enemy died and it was pretty quick.

Shalvenay

hey there @KamilDrakari, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

hey as well @Anaphory

Anaphory

Hey!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Anaphory

I'm here, with some intention to be around for a while, and I see your Hello! That hasn't happened for a while :)

Shalvenay

20:07

:) things are kinda slow here. was hoping to intro some relatives to D&D but that's probably not a happening plan

Anaphory

It's fine, I submitted a grant application, had an interesting meeting for kicking off the last year of this project, had some nice food (nothing fancy) with friends and now it's time to kick back for the day, maybe play some Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup and listen to some speculative fiction

Hm. Or should I read a Maskokee grammar?

Carcer

@ColinGross I mean, save or die/suck is one of the major problems with 3e's balance, too

Xirema

21:02

TIL that spells cast from Spell Scrolls do not have components, be they Verbal, Somatic, or Material.

At least not in 5e.

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema You know I forget that a lot. In fact, I generally forget about components in general much of the time.

Also, I think I have now created the most grimdark answer I have ever written lol. Not a big fan of the idea on the whole honestly, but I think OP might be.

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose on the BBEG's attempt to create a dragon-spawner?

Rubiksmoose

I'm not happy with the organization of the answer though after the edit, but I can't think of a better way yet.

@Shalvenay That's the one!

If any DM ever pulled this on me in a game out of the blue I would be very upset.

Shalvenay

yeah, Jherala and Teovanth would be quite upset with the BBEG for even considering that stunt

would be a good way for the BBEG to find himself with a rebellious band of dragons on his hands

Rubiksmoose

@Shalvenay [googles] who?

Shalvenay

21:10

@Rubiksmoose oh LOL -- char of mine and her dragon friend :)

Rubiksmoose

@Shalvenay hahaha ok that is kind of what I thought but then I thought I might be missing something. Turns out it was both!

Are we talking about OP's original suggestion or the suggestion I just added to my answer from @cpccodes? (or both?)

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose xD the char's my old Bronze D'Born Ancients Paladin (sailor-princess from an island kingdom) who was/is slated to become a Blade Feylock

Rubiksmoose

@Shalvenay that is completely badass.

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose anything that requires the kidnapping -- in fact, I'm not sure what would have been worse, although OP's plan lends itself somewhat better to a dragon rebellion ;)

Xirema

@Rubiksmoose If components are trivial (non-costly, non-consumed), I generally just assume they don't exist.

Rubiksmoose

21:14

@Xirema I think that is a very good policy lol

BESW

Does anybody know of RPGs inspired by Appalachian Mountain culture specifically, or the American folktale genre generally?

Shalvenay

@BESW wow, that's something I've never stopped to think about

Rubiksmoose

@Shalvenay Yeah. I really had to restrain myself to avoid turning my answer into a screed about why they shouldn't do this. Luckily other people did and better than I could have probably.

BESW

I know of a rather odd and fragmented gamelet inspired by Bob Dylan's songs.

Shalvenay

@Rubiksmoose personally, I'd have had the BBEG try their original plan, only for the party to enter the BBEG's lair to find him on a silver platter with a bunch of dragons sitting down for a feast ;)

BESW

21:18

Which is... not what I'm looking for, but definitely adjacent.

Rubiksmoose

@Shalvenay Now that would be my kind of plot twist!

BESW

I found this, which specifically calls out Manly Wade Wellman so gets a lot of points. But it's still just an OSR dungeon crawl game, the structure isn't influenced by the source material.

GreySage

@Shalvenay Then of course the PCs fight the dragons anyway

Shalvenay

@GreySage sigh murderhoboes

GreySage

@Shalvenay So much worse than murderoboes

BESW

21:37

Urgh so much of the Internet's talk about John the Balladeer and RPGs is just Appendix N stuff.

Shalvenay

@BESW Appendix N?

BESW

@Shalvenay Gygax's list of books, etc., that inspired various parts of D&D for him.

Shalvenay

@BESW ah

Rubiksmoose

Now I want a Paul Bunyan RPG.

BESW

Like, yes, if the D&D bard doesn't have a bit of John the Balladeer DNA rattling around in there somewhere I'll eat John's wide-brimmed hat. But hasn't anyone ever thought of making an RPG that tells Balladeer-style stories, instead of just dumping Balladeer ideas into a dungeon crawl?

Scion has the Yankee Pantheon, but that's still just tacking American folklore onto a different system.

There's Larger Than Life, which is specifically tall-tale-inspired, but it's still not what I'm looking for: it's using SW, M&M, and HERO, so the focus isn't on folktale storytelling.

Helwar

22:01

@Rubiksmoose Hey... I just came back to my pc and was catching up... Why the heck does the asker think scaring a dragon shitless makes him an adult????

@Shalvenay hi!

Shalvenay

@Helwar how've things been?

BESW

I guess my ideal would be like a folktale version of Lovecraftesque: a game that's analyzed the structure and pacing and themes of its source material, distilled the stories down to their common components, and created a set of mechanics that deliberately push for those elements.

Helwar

@Shalvenay personal life? Great! Job? Big headaches!

Shalvenay

@Helwar ouch, sorry to hear that work is being a pain in the butt

Helwar

@Shalvenay big impostor syndrome, with me being unable to solve some important problems. Tampering with code that has been tampered by 3 other generatons of programmers in the company is not fun

Shalvenay

22:05

@Helwar ah...yeah, maintenance can be a chore

Anaphory

@BESW That description is, in my eyes, my ideal for many games.

BESW

@Anaphory Unfortunately, in many cases it can also be taken too literally, where the inspiration material isn't suitable for a fun gaming experience in the desired mode without significant modification.

For example, translating single-character stories to party play: most of us want to each play our own characters, but a LOT of source material only has one main character.

So the game either has to find a way to convince us to share one character, or to modify the stories for groups of protagonists.

A lot of games do neither, just shoehorning multiple protagonists into a single-protagonist paradigm and then acting baffled when the result misses the target by a nautical mile.

(Call of Cthulhu, I'm looking at you.)

See also: thinking writing advice is also good GM advice.

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar hah! I had a hard time with this as well. It is because a ghost's fearful viasage can age something.

Anaphory

@BESW (Well, CoC doesn't just need looking at for just that.)

BESW

Well, yes.

Anaphory

22:17

@BESW Point taken.

Helwar

@Rubiksmoose How contrived, huh

Carcer

@Helwar it's not that contrived. The ghost's ability causes things to age by a number of years.

BESW

One of the reasons I'm interested in Manly Wade Wellman lately is that I've been looking for alternatives to HPL-derived American horror.

Helwar

@Carcer well, that single part is not contrived. The whole plan is

Carcer

@Helwar okay, sure, it is very moustache-twirling cartoon evil

Helwar

22:19

I mean, it's the BBEG, can't he get another source for dragons? :P

Carcer

@Helwar but it's not as evil when it doesn't involve corrupting children

Helwar

I mean, children traumatized into the body of an adult dragon would not be precisely the most useful army :P

Shalvenay

@Helwar indeed -- why I suggested that the BBEG might find himself on a silver platter at a draconic feast

BESW

Helwar

@BESW Cacti?

BESW

22:28

@Helwar Yup. Commonly known as dragon fruit, for obvious reasons:

Helwar

22:40

omg, i was watching the nintendo direct... So much disappointment in the last few minutes T_T

Yuuki

22:54

What's so bad about Animal Crossing?

doppelgreener

23:14

@BESW because there's dragons in them?

BESW

doppelgreener

I knew it

user15026

23:36

@Helwar oh?

user15026

@Anaphory SE has warped me and I was like "Code of Conduct, what?"

user15026

@BESW I haven't ever eaten one of these. I see them in the grocery store but they intimidate me

BESW

You can slice 'em in half and scoop out the middle with a spoon and just eat it!

(For those ones, the inside is white with tiny black seed-dots)

user15026

Oh that sounds easy enough!

user15026

(I am easily intimidated by fruits and veggies - the first time I had a kohlrabi in my local veggie basket thing (it was a purple one) I was like "this looks like I ripped the heart out of some alien, I don't even know what even is this")

trogdor

23:43

Yeah they are really good

And actually easy to eat yeah

You do need to cut them open with a decent know but what's inside is soft

user15026

Cool, maybe I will get one next time I see it then :D

BESW

@Ash Yeah, same.

You can also put the flesh into smoothies very easily.

trogdor

Ooooh

BESW

But, like, my mother will just slice one open and leave it on the counter with a teaspoon next to it and we scoop out a bit when we walk past.

trogdor

That sounds goooooood

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