TRPG General Chat

SmokeDetector

01:22

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Are there creatures that are resistant/immune to falling damage? by user44871 on rpg.SE

BESW

Okay, what's with the bots that seem to just be posting random Wiki excerpts?

Shalvenay

@SmokeDetector that is some straaaaange spam you have there

BESW

Is somebody using the Stack to practice context training or something?

doppelgreener

08:08

@BESW I'm not sure. It's quite confounding.

trogdor

the spam here is,.... so weird

BESW

Yeah, but this is a sudden shift to a totally different kind of weird.

trogdor

true

I actually thought at one point that all we ever would get would be love potion stuff

Miniman

@BESW Yeah, the first time I saw one of the new breed I was genuinely unsure whether it was spam or just...a really terrible answer or something.

trogdor

/witch doctor/ vampire

Miniman

08:13

I wonder if someone's trying to make a rep bot.

trogdor

lol

well they gotta do a better job then I guess

Miniman

Yeah, it's a silly approach if that's what they're going for.

The smart way would be [redacted].

BESW

Yeah, but the problem is that'd be too [redacted] for their [redacted] to handle without [redacted].

doppelgreener

08:48

I'm going to get a filter added to smoke detector that will catch it out. Hopefully whoever this is it'll get fed to spam ram pretty soon.

Spam ram being one of the spam blocker systems built into the stack network.

Speaking of which: do flag those posts as spam if you see them! Their hallmark is that Every Word Is In Title Case and it's speaking about Japanese history in some fashion.

trogdor

09:20

wow

this has happened a lot then

doppelgreener

09:49

@trogdor minimum four times in the past couple of weeks, i think, three of which have been seen by smoke detector.

trogdor

mm

Axoren

11:16

Is there a way to see comment replies to me if they've been deleted? I got 2 from yesterday, but I was out until Midnight, so I couldn't read them before they were deleted.

Is there a Rep level I need? Or are they just gone for good?

Joel Harmon

They're still around, I think

There are breaks at 10k and 20k

stackoverflow.com/help/privileges

BESW

@Axoren Deleted comments are visible only to elected moderators and Stack employees. You can ask a moderator to copy-paste info for you if necessary.

Axoren

@BESW It's not worth getting a mod involved to read me a bed-time story. Just curious if there was a way to see what happened while I was gone.

I had 5 comment replies and only 3 of them still existed this morning.

Axoren

11:44

So, apparently... The Lucky Feat + Elven Accuracy grants 4d20kh1 for 3 attacks per day.

@Miniman That question is not a duplicate at all. They're asking if they can look at the die before deciding to spend the Lucky point.

goodguy5

morning nerds

and I'm pretty sure that question has been asked

Axoren

The question he's cited is different, however.

Miniman

@Axoren It's the same question, though - "the Lucky feat implies rolling an additional die and choosing to use it are 2 separate things, what's with that?"

goodguy5

oh, now I understand.

I misread it

Miniman

Just because he's pre-chosen the most favorable (and nonsensical) interpretation instead of the least, doesn't make it a separate question.

goodguy5

11:51

I still think that it's a dupe

Axoren

@Miniman I can see the answer to that question being applicable, so I'll cede that.

The second question you've applied to it is definitely the same

Miniman

@Axoren I linked in another one, if that helps.

Oops, way ahead of me :)

Axoren

@Miniman I agree with the second choice for the dupe

Also, that other Lucky question should be thankful that it's not possible in the base rules to have a Fighter/Monk with BOTH Indomitable and Diamond Soul

Not enough levels to have that crapfest of a rules quagmire.

goodguy5

@Axoren too bad you can't also be a halfling

Axoren

@goodguy5 You can be a Halfling Fighter/Monk with the Lucky Feat in an Epic Level campaign >:)

goodguy5

12:01

no epic levels. you'd have to petition for a boon

Axoren

Honestly, I think the only boon worth fawning over is the multiple reactions per round

goodguy5

I can't keep track of what's allowed or not, so ymmv

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: How can a vampire avoid destruction by direct sunlight? by kyle on rpg.SE

goodguy5

that was weird

Axoren

Being a Spear Sentinel with unlimited reactions can be devastating.

Honestly, even just being a Sentinel Rogue with Greater Invisibility on you makes being thrown into combat miles better than if the mage cast Fireball

goodguy5

12:11

terrifying

Axoren

You could probably do the same with Tunnel Fighter, but it takes up your bonus each round.

And Tunnel Fighter doesn't really go on Rogues

doppelgreener

Awesome. That's a new one.

@BESW @trogdor illuminati spam! On a vampire question! I was hoping it was vampire cabal spam but I'm only slightly disappointed.

(because it isn't making a long entertaining pitch)

Axoren

@doppelgreener Link's broken now. Did you remove it?

What did it say, if you don't mind?

Found it, lol

WOW

doppelgreener

Yeah, click the MS link. :)

Axoren

Looking around for that email, I found it in some weird places: swansonfuneralhomes.com/guestbook/1978207

Can't tell if it's a copypasta or not

But they seem to target obituaries a lot

I don't understand. It seems like some bot that's been going rampant since at least as far back as 2013.

BESW

12:27

@doppelgreener The Illuminati is too young of a secret society for the vampires to take it seriously, so they leave messages on vampire threads hoping somebody will call.

Axoren

I think it's a scam where they try to get people to email that account and pay initiation fees or something.

"To become a member of the Illuminati, you fire need to pay a $1,000 initiation fee."

"Then, you must pay a $2,000 annual membership fee."

"But to do so, you need to setup a payment account of at least $4,000 through our private bank."

Something like that

doppelgreener

@Axoren It's a spammer. They will put their spam into anywhere that is an input field with a submit button attached. Those obituaries are probably just a publicly-indexed field they found that are poorly protected against spam.

Axoren

Looks like it's just one guy and not a group.

@doppelgreener Yeah, just musing about their objective. Spammers have an end-goal whenever they spam. The spam is a means to an end.

doppelgreener

Basically there are two kinds of spam: (a) spam that wants people to click the link / send an email, and (b) spam that doesn't care what people do with it, but it wants to use Stack Exchange to boost a website's position in search engine rankings so that other people are more likely to find that site whilst looking for a legitimate service. (a) is pretty much all scams.

Axoren

It would be kind of sad if that person was spamming just because he believed he was actually in charge of the Illuminati

Because that would mean he's been doing it for years

So, you think that somewhere in that message are keywords associated with a specific site they're trying to boost?

nitsua60

12:43

@Axoren Sad!? That's my favorite new bit of headcanon today =)

Axoren

@nitsua60 Apparently, it's some dude or small group operating out of Kenya, which might be a serious attempt at forming a Church of the Illuminati

That's as far as my research could take me.

It's either a scam, or it's a really tiny "church" that is also a scam.

nitsua60

Every morning they get up and spend an hour before heading to work trying to reconnect with he other Illuminati they know must be out there. All the while muttering to self: "never doubt the ability of a small group of motivated people to change the world. Because it's the only thing that ever has...."

SPavel

But spamming our site is very illumi-naughty

5

BESW

....does Kenya have confraternities like Nigeria?

Axoren

@BESW I think so, from what I've seen

There's also a lot of devil worship.

But I can't say if it's more than we've got here in America

doppelgreener

12:52

@Axoren No. This spam is type A, they want contacts so they can scam people.

It's virtually guaranteed they just want to scam people out of money.

Axoren

@doppelgreener I guess it might work in a different way. People signing up for the Illuminati would be the people more likely to fall pray to other scams, so they'd sell the emails to other scam groups or run other scams on them.

Like the "I'm a Nigerian Prince looking to get my money out of my country."

People who fell for the Illuminati scam would probably think "This is my big break to become rich and famous."

doppelgreener

@Axoren Probably.

Spam targets the most gullible 0.01%

Axoren

Unless you count erectile enhancement products.

BESW

@Axoren It really doesn't compare.

Axoren

Those tend to target people who need cheap heart medication.

@BESW In response to what specifically?

American Devil Worship? Or Confraternities?

BESW

12:56

Both.

doppelgreener

Are we talking about real devil worship or spam fictional devil worship? Because there pretty much isn't real devil worship.

Axoren

Sorry if I'm a little slow, it is the morning. What doesn't compare to both?

I need full sentences or I might fall pray to devil worship.

SPavel

@Axoren "Dear Illuminati: thank you for contacting me at such an opportune time. I have recently been scammed by a Nigerian Prince, who did not send me the 10 million dollars that he promised. I eagerly send you the initiation fee in order to enlist your aid in finding this despicable man and claiming what is rightfully mine."

BESW

The American versions and the Nigerian/Kenyan versions, of all of the above, are not readily comparable.

Axoren

@BESW How bad is it over there?

Or is it worse in America?

I feel like culturally, we're a lot more permissible of devil worship here in America, because there are plenty of Scientologists which are generally way worse people overall.

doppelgreener

12:59

What devil worship?

Axoren

Pretty sure there was a church of Mephistopheles in Tennessee a while back that made the news.

I'd have to double check

SPavel

Isn't there that satanic temple that keeps trying to put up statues of Lucifer next to wherever there are Christian statues

Axoren

It was actually in Phoenix: phoenixinn.iwarp.com/fantasy/fantpdf/hell.pdf

@SPavel It's only fair.

SPavel

@Axoren That is their argument.

Also there's that airport with the fire breathing horse statue that killed its designer while it was being built,

that's as demonic as you're gonna get

nitsua60

Yes, but do any of these groups believe that Satan/The Devil is a powerful supernatural being who can affect their lives, vs. believing that the appropriation of Christian mythology to make points about individualism and free expression/freedom of religion is an effective tactic?

Axoren

13:02

I mean, occasionally you hear of chickens going missing close to the Mexican boarder so cultists can blame the Chupacabra.

doppelgreener

There is Satanism, but Satanism doesn't worship (or believe in) the devil in any way. In fact, Satanism was created because devil worship and satanism never really existed. The only sense in which they did exist was that Christian religious organisations would point at a group and say "they are satanists / devil worshipers", or say an activity is devil worship. The founder of Satanism decided there ought to be something, so he created Satanism.

BESW

Mmm. A lot of people think American Satanists are devil-worshippers, rather than mostly theists or atheists who like to freak out fundamentalists.

nitsua60

(That's a sincere question, btw.)

Axoren

@nitsua60 Satanism is separate from devil worship, I'm pretty sure.

doppelgreener

Satanism is canonically not remotely devil worship, correct.

Axoren

13:03

Satanists are actually really kind people, just with some very gothic aesthetics and some counter-christian ideals.

BESW

But in Nigeria.... it's a much different sort of religious ecosystem.

doppelgreener

@Axoren And those ideas generally include respect of separation between church and state. They did things like proposing that statue to force governments to maintain that separation -- because clearly, if they can have statues in government celebrating Christianity, they have no reason not to also promote Satanism.

Axoren

I've always had trouble keeping track in biblical literature whether or not Satan, Lucifer, and the Morning Star were all the same people.

doppelgreener

(They have also done things like find schools that are making Christian bibles available, and requested they make Satanic texts available. To do otherwise would be discrimination. Often the bibles suddenly stop being available...)

SPavel

@Axoren I think they are from different traditions

Axoren

13:05

And then you've got the issue of who tried to get Eve to eat the apple? Who argued with God that his creations weren't perfect? etc.

@SPavel That makes things complicated as hell

SPavel

IIRC Satan is actually Hebrew

NautArch

@doppelgreener This is my favorite thing about the Satanists - keeping a check on religion and the state.

SPavel

@Axoren What makes it complicated is that Christianity is the Katamari of religions

just rolling up all the neat ideas

Axoren

"Christmas? I'll take 2."

SPavel

Judaism is so old that it used to be polytheistic

so that confuses stuff too

Axoren

13:07

God's wife, for example.

Asherah or something

doppelgreener

@Axoren In current theological analysis: not the same figures. "Satan" just means "the adversary" or "the antagonist". So there were a bunch of unrelated tales which had an antagonist in them. At some point in the middle of the first millennium AD, some scholars decided they all independently referenced the same character. But they're not the same character any more than all the rabbits in Aesop's Fables might be the same rabbit -- they may or may not be, that's not important.

And they probably weren't ever written to be all the same rabbit. They just happened to be rabbits.

SPavel

@doppelgreener So Satan is just a recurring villain-of-the-week?

Axoren

@SPavel Just with a different beard and mustache each time, so it's easy for viewers to identify him.

doppelgreener

@SPavel No, the opposite. It's like if someone decided all the Wizards in Disney stories were the same character, because they were all called Wizards. There was not a recurring character. There were many different stories, each with antagonists, and sometimes the antagonist was simply called the word for "antagonist".

SPavel

Also: The Antichrist is not a mirror universe goatee Jesus, but rather anyone who does not believe in Jesus.

Axoren

13:09

"Oh, no! He was the Deceiver the whole time!"

SPavel

@Axoren And I woulda gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling apostles!

BESW

In the Bahá'í Faith, references to that sort of universal tempter-antagonist are interpreted as an allegory for the temptation to indulge in the desires of the body at the expense of the needs of the soul.

SPavel

@BESW Fortunately, soul food was invented to resolve this particular theological dilemma

doppelgreener

@SPavel correct

BESW

(And the Anti-Christ is both a singular figure and a broad category depending on context.)

SPavel

13:12

This reminds me of that time in Fate/whatever when they tried to summon the Zoroastrian god of death Ahura Mazda as a hero, then it turned out it was just some guy that everyone blamed for the world's problems, and it glitched out the Grail and everyone died

That show is weird

BESW

But... in Nigeria, indigenous beliefs and various forms of fundamentalist Christianity and other faiths have created a very-confusing-to-the-outsider gestalt which is an easy breeding ground for very toxic practices and fears.

Axoren

So then, only the Hebrew literature on the topic can be reasonably read to learn anything about the proper figures of pre-Christian Abrahamic faith?

doppelgreener

@Axoren All theologians learn Greek, Hebrew and Latin specifically to read the earliest intact texts we have with the exact written meaning, without the errors, ambiguities, and misinterpretations that creep in via translations.

Axoren

Of those languages, Hebrew seems the easiest.

Latin has too many tenses; it really needs a spa day.

BESW

@doppelgreener Similar to Bahá'í religious scholars learning Arabic and Persian, but there's less "btw this is an ancient dead form of the language so we're kinda guessing here" in our case.

Since our texts are less than 200 years old.

doppelgreener

13:14

@BESW Pretty much yeah.

@BESW That makes it pretty easy.

Like, you still have relatively modern uses of language and storytelling devices.

BESW

Though, it doesn't help that Bahá'u'lláh in particular made lots of references to thousand-year-old mystic poetry and obscure religious commentaries.

doppelgreener

Meanwhile the bible was seated in, for example, storytelling practices of 2000-3000 years ago in which stories were not intended to be taken as literal documentaries, but as allegorical accounts of sorta what a person was like or sorta what events happened.

BESW

(And frequently referenced most other major religious texts and their commentaries.)

doppelgreener

@BESW oh. nuts.

And the old testament was like... 60% of a far broader collection of texts. The ancient Jewish people had many different priesthoods, each of which took different portions of the grand body of texts as canon, and rejected other portions. One of those priesthoods happened to be the one to compile the Old Testament, because they were in power at a time when the social situation of the Jewish people called for something like that to happen. They were just in the right place at the right time.

BESW

@doppelgreener [grin] The English translation of The Seven Valleys is riddled with footnotes, and there's a tablet about the Visitation in the Síyáh-Chál which Shoghi Effendi declared un-translate-able in any meaningful sense.

SPavel

13:20

Apparently the quran includes stuff about Jesus' childhood (Book of Infancy) and he gets up to some wacky shenanigans

doppelgreener

@SPavel oh cool. :D

Axoren

@SPavel Does it include the whippings/beatings of people in the church when he got really angry at some dudes?

SPavel

@Axoren He curses a kid for making him spill some water

Axoren

nvm, I think that was when he was an adult

SPavel

and the kid withers to a corpse

@Axoren Yeah that was adult Jesus

doppelgreener

13:21

@BESW Oh noooo. Ok, learning Arabic and Persian sounds very important.

Axoren

@doppelgreener Especially if you want to speak Arabic or Persian.

Tiggerous

So this question, someone has added a system tag to it without OP clarifying.

I'm fairly sure that that needs to be removed again right?

doppelgreener

@Tiggerous on it.

Tiggerous

@doppelgreener Cheers.

SPavel

Though I still prefer "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" when it comes to biblical study

Surprisingly well researched for a book with that title

Tiggerous

13:24

@doppelgreener I've just looked into it a bit more - It looks like it was OP that approved the edit (Sdjz and I had rejected). So, migth have been OK?

@Sdjz jinx!

doppelgreener

@Borislav Could you confirm that D&D 5e is what you were playing? I see on a second look that you approved the edit, but I'd be more comfortable reinstating that tag with your saying so. — doppelgreener ♦ 8 secs ago

Thanks for bringing that up.

On principle that edit should not have been suggested, so the ping to Apocalisp is warranted anyway.

Rubiksmoose

@SPavel I found it that way too! Actually really well done IMO. This coming from a family that would have leant towards considering the premise blasphemous...

SPavel

Blasphemous premises are the only kinds worth using

Tiggerous

@doppelgreener He's doubled down on the edit and resuggested it, with a comment.

Rubiksmoose

@SPavel hahaha there certainly are many interesting premises that fall under that category.

Sdjz

13:40

I worry that this discussion on the validity of the edits may overwhelm Borislav, could we maybe invite Apocalisp to chat instead and clear those comments? Borislav should be focused on clarifying, I think.

Rubiksmoose

@Sdjz Or maybe move the discussion on guessing the system to chat.

Sdjz

@Rubiksmoose Isn't it the same discussion? I don't understand

Rubiksmoose

@Sdjz I meant a mod could move those comments into a chat discussion linked to the question instead of bringing the discussion to the general chat. But I realize now that is likely what you meant anyways

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose I've done that. I was thinking the same thing; it's in chat now.

Sdjz

@Rubiksmoose Ah yes, I think I understand now, same conversation, different action :)

BESW

13:44

Yeah, that was turning into a clear "don't debate policy in someone's comments" situation.

nitsua60

[casts spell] summon help pile!

doppelgreener

Do you have that one? I just have Break Argument and Relocate Argument

Tiggerous

This felt more like a slightly belligerent unhelp pile.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Just a heads up, it doesn't look like there is a chat link in the comments. Intended?

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose Intended.

Rubiksmoose

13:45

@doppelgreener Cool.

nitsua60

@Tiggerous part of the description of a help pile includes the danger of the puppies of which said pile is constituted starting to nip at each other =)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Does a vampire in mist form count as a creature in terms of effects that target creatures? by kyle jackson on rpg.SE

BESW

Daaang we're on top of the spam tonight.

nitsua60

Oh, good. We're back to the usual spam =)

BESW

SmokeDetector

13:55

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user: Does Endure Sunlight protect a vampire against Sunburst and its relatives? by kyle jackson on rpg.SE

doppelgreener

It's the first workday after a public holiday in India, those sometimes mean a spampocalypse. We're being hit strangely hard though.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener what do we do about this? rpg.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/46237

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose I'm just going to let it ride this time.

This looks like the querent gets to review an edit even after its rejected.

[cleans up comments]

Rubiksmoose

Oh good I wasn't the only one that thought that flow was strange...

SmokeDetector

14:19

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: How to heal undead by marria on rpg.SE

Axoren

This is getting ridiculous. Can you guys do a temporary subnet ban on them?

Just stop anyone in their IP block from sending posts for like an hour and they'll think they got compromised.

And hopefully, any legit users caught in the crossfire are either not posting at that time or otherwise expecting it to be a glitch

nitsua60

14:44

@Axoren No, we can't. The SE staff could, but 3 spam posts, each handled in under a minute, is well under the level that I'd think to bother the staff.

doppelgreener

14:57

This is honestly exceptionally little spam compared to what most other sites get.

It's just that this chat room has also been signed up to be notified about it, so that people notice, so that they spam flag stuff. ... So we're noticing it.

This is five today, other sites get five an hour. (And if we were in that state I wouldn't have Smokey posting into this room.)

Mike Q

All of these spell casters must be from the arcane school of spam

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ That explains all the canned messages :P

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose [slow clap]

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose [slower clap]

goodguy5

[just actually holding both palms several inches from each other]

Rubiksmoose

15:12

Monster! XD

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: How can I tell how many damage dice to roll for an NPCs cantrip? by Akudu 7 Wizards Spells on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

doppelgreener

thx smokey

DESTROY'T

Mike Q

I demand martial class themed spam for equal representation

doppelgreener

@MikeQ ENLARGE YOUR STR SCORE 2DAY BUY SUPLRMENT GAURANTEED NOT 2 CAUSE BLINDNESS STRANGTHELIXIR.BIZ

Yuuki

@SmokeDetector Wait, this account name sounds familiar.

I think they've posted spam on Gaming.SE multiple times as well.

Rubiksmoose

15:17

@Yuuki Well it is an account no longer lol

Yuuki

Wait, is that baby eagle?

Ugh, I knew I should've tuned in during Memorial Day weekend.

doppelgreener

yesterday, by kviiri

The eaglet is starting to look like an eagle

(and photos follow)

@Yuuki yeah, arqade gets witch doctor spam too: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/115154

Yuuki

Oh, there's baby eagle.

doppelgreener

\o/

Yuuki

@doppelgreener I saw that in the starlist, opened up the stream, and couldn't see any black.

So I thought momma eagle was actually baby eagle four days after Friday.

doppelgreener

15:22

Baby eagle is about 4-5 weeks old at this point, and in another 5 weeks may be fledged enough that it can take flight for the first time.

Yuuki

But actually, baby eagle was lying flat in the nest and all invisible.

doppelgreener

I'm amazed by how fast it's grown.

I keep having to double check my maths but April 24 was 4 and a half weeks ago.

Mike Q

@Yuuki Well duh. Invisibility is a level 2 spell, Fly is level 3. Eagles cast their spells in order of spell level.

Yuuki

That implies that eagles are a spellcasting class.

doppelgreener

That's very likely; they are apex predators

Mike Q

15:23

@Yuuki The chat room is enchanted by them

Yuuki

Are we sure invisibility and fly aren't racial spells, like how aasimar get light?.

GreySage

Any race with Invisibility and Fly as racial traits would be OP

doppelgreener

well, they are eagles

they are like the owlbears of the actually real animal kingdom

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage Just ask Tolkien. Eagles are OP.

Yuuki

At this angle, baby eagle's head looks comically small in proportion to their body.

HellSaint

15:26

Lol, this question - rpg.stackexchange.com/q/123507/43856

Yuuki

Well, while they were picking at their chest feathers.

HellSaint

Both answers getting +3/-3 (+3/-4 now for one?)

I can see people actually fighting with their votes there.

NautArch

@HellSaint Fenrir changing his answer didn't help his votes.

He started off at -2 because of his initial "NO"

Yuuki

Revision history says his answer was always yes.

HellSaint

@Yuuki yeah same here o.o

Yuuki

15:29

Unless there was a >2 minute edit?

NautArch

@HellSaint weird, i could have sworn it was a No initially.

David Coffron

Fenrir is right. You take the attack action as a reaction. He just needs to support it more. Hopefully he sees the comments

doppelgreener

It could have been, followed by them editing it into a Yes within the 5-minute grace period

Yuuki

I'm not sure if pre-grace period edits show up in the revision history, even though they definitely don't add the "edited x mins ago" box.

doppelgreener

They do not

Yuuki

15:34

Poor mama eagle with that feather stuck on her bill.

Since Friday at least, IIRC.

doppelgreener

Any revision the author makes to a post within its first 5 minutes replaces the content of revision 1 completely. The same goes for any other revision and anything the same author does within the following 5 minutes. (If anyone else edits in that time, it ends the grace period.)

HellSaint

@DavidCoffron "When you cast a spell as a Reaction after taking the Ready action, you're not taking the Cast a Spell action. You're releasing a spell that you cast as part of the Ready action. In the same way, when you attack as a reaction, you're not taking an Attack Action. You're attacking with your Reaction." - Apocalips' argument is basically the origin of my confusion :P

NautArch

@HellSaint I dno't see any support for that argument, but there are multiple supports that when you Ready an attack, you are readying the Attack action (capital A, not lowercase A like with an opportunity attack.)

GreySage

@HellSaint There is no 'attack' as a reaction. There is Opportunity Attack, and in this case Attack made available from Ready.

Rubiksmoose

@HellSaint I think that is the danger of using specific rules to try to support more general rulings.

Yuuki

15:42

@NautArch I guess the support is there if you don't read the text for the Ready action clearly.

But that's not really an argument.

NautArch

@Yuuki Clearly :)

Rubiksmoose

I believe that the rule for spells is specifically only the way spells work. If attacks were supposed to work that way as well it would say so.

GreySage

@Rubiksmoose The rules for spells cast from Ready come after all the other rules for Ready, and in their own paragraph. I think it is clear that they are an exception to the general.

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage Indeed.

HellSaint

There are instances of attacks as a reaction, as in Sentinel - When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Actually, quoting this probably would help Fenrir's answer, as when it's not the Attack action, it's specified as "melee weapon attack". But I can still see problems with that interpretation, as readying allows you to make any kind of attack (ranged weapon as well, I mean)

Still, I think there is a clear distinction between an Attack action and simply an attack, and Fenrir's answer lacks backing that the reaction you are taking is indeed an Attack action, as I mentioned in a comment in his answer.

David Coffron

15:47

I'm scrounging for instances where it says something like "take X action as a reaction" (like how Cunning action says you can take the disengage action as a bonus action)

Axoren

@HellSaint I really appreciate your question, because I know for a fact it seems like an edge case ruling using some wacky terminology about the Ready action. I hope you don't take the sentiment of my comment reply to you the wrong way.

I hit the character limit and there was more I wanted to say, so it ended up sounding kind of angry or aggressive on my second reading of it

HellSaint

Lol I didn't take any offense, don't worry.

NautArch

Since FEnrir didn't seem to want to update their answer, i through mine into the ring.

GreySage

@NautArch Don't you mean former in your answer?

Axoren

I'm glad you took the initiative to ask it formally and get some answers to a topic that's actually kind of poorly understood by people less familiar with the system.

NautArch

15:53

@GreySage ?

Axoren

The Ready action needs some errata just to deal with the confusion surrounding it and basic combat flow, like interactions shudders

GreySage

> Upper case and lower case a have a meaning in the PHB, with the latter being the Action described under Actions in Combat in the PHB.

Upper case A is the Attack action

Axoren

Lowercase 'a' references a component of an action which leads to a by-definition attack.

Like, when Booming Blade lets you make an attack, but not an Attack Action.

NautArch

@GreySage d'oh. yes. thank yoU!

GreySage

@Axoren exactly

doppelgreener

15:56

@Yuuki i'm just... having so much trouble watching the stream... i want to brush that feather off her beak so badly.

Axoren

@doppelgreener You've just given me a great idea for weaponizing a player's character flaw.

Feather on the shoulder of a Queen during a royal audience.

Yuuki

No, that could just be fancy rich person fashion. The feather has to be balanced on her nose.

HellSaint

@Axoren I'm familiar with the notation - reason my question is written as "does it count as an Attack Action or just an attack?". I just needed the backing up that the Ready action indeed provides you with the Attack, not just an attack. This was mostly provided by Crawford's tweet in @NautArch's answer.

Yuuki

And she keeps wriggling her nose, trying to get it off.

Axoren

@HellSaint That was less for you and more for helping GreySage make his point to Naut.

The Oracle

15:59

1

Q: Multiple questions about re-roll ability interactions with critical rolls

We've had a small influx of questions asking about re-roll abilites (such as the lucky feat) and critical successes or failures. Can Lucky be used on an attack roll if the roll is a 'Nat 1'? (Today; Already closed as a duplicate) When a roll is rerolled, how does it interact with other roll-man...

Axoren

I expect my comment deleted, but I never miss an opportunity for a bad pun.

SPavel

I have an idea for an eccentric NPC that I want to use someday

It's the king or whatever that the PCs need something from so they can't just leave the conversation

Yuuki

@SPavel A preschool teacher?

That would be an EC-centric NPC.

SPavel

and every time the PCs say something annoying and protagonist-centered, he reaches into a bucket next to him and pulls out a handful of bees

Axoren

@SPavel That sounds absolutely dumb. I love it.

SPavel

16:05

1 bee if the comment was only borderline dumb, a full handful for total stupidity

and the bees fly around stinging the PCs

Axoren

Personally, I like the idea misreading your message just gave me.

Yuuki

They're alive? I wouldn't imagine that a bucket of living bees would stay a bucket of bees for very long.

SPavel

the bucket is a magic item that produces infinity bees so it will never run out

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener any way you could nuke the comment answers in this to prevent this blooming comment answer discussion? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/123521/…

Axoren

A king that keeps a conversation going as long as he can during a time crisis.

SPavel

16:06

decanter of infinite bees

Axoren

Like, there's a thief running away with his crown or something, and he goes on telling the entire history of the royal lineage

"Before you go, you must know about the crown. The crown is a family heirloom..."

SPavel

if he pulls out enough bees, the bees become a swarm and attack the PCs, if there are even more bees than that the swarm becomes a hive mind

Axoren

"Wait, you need to know about the enemy faction who took my crown! They're a band of mercenaries..."

Yuuki

When your PCs enter the throne room, they see the king looking at his decanter thoughtfully, "To bee or not to bee..."

Axoren

And every time they try to leave, they get roped into more faux exposition that wastes their time.

And the party then says "I wish we took the job from the Bee King instead."

"Oh, you know the Bee King? I think you should know the history of the Bee King."

"Sorry, King. I need to use the bathroom."
"Bathroom? Oh yes, we have one of those. Marvelously built. The construction crew that worked on that..."

SPavel

16:09

The king's dialogue is broadcast into the bathroom via ingenious pipes

Axoren

"Ahh, that was a fine plop. I remember the first time I used that bathroom. It was the third era..."

Imagine how frustrated the party would feel when they realize that they just spent 2 real-life hours listening to the King waste their time when they could have been catching the thief.

Actually, that seems too evil.

Yuuki

Stay awhile and listen...

2

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose good call. nuked.

HellSaint

16:33

@Rubiksmoose Aww, I wanted to answer in a comment :( "Annoying person. That's how you call them."

Jokes aside, great answers from Rubik and GreySage

Rubiksmoose

@HellSaint I had to repress similar urges lol.

@HellSaint and thanks! :)

HellSaint

@doppelgreener rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/123524/… - this is still unclear what he's asking for me. Why did you reopen it? :P

doppelgreener

@HellSaint I closed it initially because there was no edition specified... or so I thought, I spotted it in the title and reopened.

I've re-closed.

David Coffron

16:49

@Rubiksmoose i indeed wear the name "rules lawyer" as a badge of honour lol. Then again, I put my badge away at the table and bring up.questions/concerns, etc. after the game to understand if it's a house rule or just a misunderstanding. SOME of us are good!

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron Absolutely! I also feel the same way. Though I have definitely been in the position of an annoying rules lawyer as well. I have reformed my ways though lol.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I'll not argue at the table, but i'll bring up a rule if I feel that we're not following it. But once the DM says "no, it's this way" I stop.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Same. Or at least I try. Sometimes the ugly rules-lawyer drive rears its ugly head and I have to beat it down again

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose reinstall drivers

Rubiksmoose

rules_lawyer.exe has crashed.

HellSaint

16:58

Argh, that reminds me of a recent player. He kept talking about "how 5e doesn't have surprise round" and I was like "lol it does". We spent 5 minutes. He was right in the sense it doesn't have a surprise round, but it didn't change absolutely anything as the creatures didn't have anything that interacted with surprise.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose runaway process

SPavel

@HellSaint I ate a lot on my vacation but didn't really think about it until I came home and checked my weight at the gym... I was surprise round

3

HellSaint

@SPavel I'm laughing and I don't know why

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