TRPG General Chat

SmokeDetector

00:01

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: What is the maximum number of creatures who can receive wedding rites via Ceremony? by DIANA DIVEN on rpg.SE

trogdor

WoW that is,... Certainly a question all right

Lol

KorvinStarmast

00:16

@JoelHarmon Not really. That was a very good answer that I just saw a few things to tweak. That's on me, not on you. :)

Ben

There's a question.... are there any items in 5e that allow "double xp gain"?

BESW

00:47

@trogdor The big challenge I anticipate with Agaptus is communicating the setting to the party.

trogdor

I don't doubt it

It's a strange setting to be sure

KorvinStarmast

@Ben Not yet

> and given the game's design philosophy, don't hold your breath

Ben

Didn't think so. And even if there was, it'd have to apply to the whole party otherwise that would get unbalanced quick

KorvinStarmast

@Ben If people in the party are competing with one another, that's a people problem ...

Ben

Well, no. I mean, if one player was level 6 and the rest were level 3, that'd start problems with the balance of the game... and possibly lead to competition in terms of "oh he always gets to fight all the cool enemies and has all the cool abilities", etc.

But if it did apply to the whole party, then that would probably make it a bit redundant... lol

trogdor

00:59

@Ben yeah this happened to my brother and I, there were some games where you could die in the middle of a fight and not gain experience concurrently, and that broke up the flow a lot

Ben

Balance is key.

trogdor

Because we would always end up leaving the area to rez each other to keep the exp meter balaned

Ben

I didn't have this problem with experience, but I have had a few games where this was caused by min-maxing

trogdor

That has happened too

3.5 was a big offender there

Ben

I suppose the "double xp" thing can be fun in terms of just boosting the whole party through the ranks quickly...but other than that I can just see problems arising

KorvinStarmast

01:03

@Ben it's pointless, IMO, since the DM can advance without Xp at all, an option addressed in the DMG.

Ben

True

BESW

It'd probably be better for games where XP isn't one of the GM's pacing mechanisms.

KorvinStarmast

Story based advancement is a thing, and I am glad 5e DMG finally broke the wall down on that

@BESW what you just said ...

Ben

01:31

Sometimes dandwiki makes me chuckle

Was looking up the possible existence of a "fist weapon". According to dand, a "bladed glove" has the "hidden" property, and deals 1d8 damage.

daze413

@Ben sometimes?

Shalvenay

hey there @KorvinStarmast and @daze413

daze413

but no, we should probably get off dand's back XD

Ben

Yes. The rest of the time I either just ignore it entirely or facepalm really hard

daze413

@Shalvenay heyo o/ Been a long time

how is your ToA game going?

Shalvenay

01:42

@daze413 mostly stalled :/

daze413

@Ben You know what would be interesting? If we could go there as a group and start critiquing some of the content with constructive feedback. That'd be cool. But also exhausting

Joel Harmon

@KorvinStarmast Sounds good. I'm just looking to try improving writing habits on my side.

KorvinStarmast

@JoelHarmon For me it's a never ending struggle, that writing thing. I guess shared misery is good? :)

Joel Harmon

@KorvinStarmast Loves company and all that.

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Oh, hi, sorry, I missed your hail. All well with you? \

@JoelHarmon Yeah, that too. :)

Ben

01:51

@daze413 That would be great, but yeah... huge job

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast OK here

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay I just did a facial into my keyboard, thanks to visiting Aviation.SE. There's a foolish question there about rule lawyering passenger flights ... bites hand

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast :/

KorvinStarmast

How are you, my friend?

Shalvenay

alright here, DIY.SE can be annoying though -- people posting insufficient information, as usual

KorvinStarmast

02:02

What project are you working on?

Shalvenay

someone wants 120 at their well pump shed, but only has 240 there, and has a direct bury cable running there, not conduit. problem is, they didn't tell me what their disconnecting means is and if they have an extant grounding electrode system there. because if I knew that, then this would be pretty easy to solve without pulling wires for the reason Tesla won the war of the currents ;)

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay I think that's endemic to all Stacks.

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon not surprising

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Electricity is a bit of Darwin at work, for the unwary. :)

I always hire a professional, since I want my stuff done to code so that the city inspector does not become a problem. bribes are very expensive.

I'd rather the pro got the dough.

one of my attorney friends makes a tidy living litigating code violations; let's say too many developers 'round here cut corners ... remaining content censored

Ben

I second that. My father is an electrician, and it's not even the case of having someone who actually knows what they're doing - elecrictiy is dangerous

KorvinStarmast

02:12

@Ben I can recall three dead sailors on one deployment who failed to follow the equipment tag out rules in three separate cases ... :( 80's

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast it's amazing how many code vios show up in work that most folks would expect would have been done to Code

Joel Harmon

@Ben Shockingly dangerous, yes.

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Hence my friend's nice boat

Ben

The worst case I have ever heard of was a guy was disintegrated. Yes - disintegrated because of electricity

nitsua60

@Ben I definitely didn't read that as "my father is an electron." No-sir-ee.

daze413

02:14

@Ben so you're saying Disintegrate actually deals lightning damage?

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 "And mother smelt of neutrinoberries?"

Ben

@daze413 well, lightning deals heat damage. Lol

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast "Now go away, you chargeless neutron, or I shall prompt weak interactions a second time?"

trogdor

@nitsua60 ok that's very good to know

KorvinStarmast

@Ben FWIW, 5e D&D has Lightning Bolt setting fire to things as fireball does ... versimililtude

trogdor

02:15

XD

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 "I Volt 'em I already Watt one ..."

Ok, that was just horrible ...

Ben

@KorvinStarmast Without getting too into it, it's all fundamentally explained through SCIENCE

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast arc flash is nasty stuff

(see my WB.SE answers on the damage lightning spells would inflict to armored folks)

KorvinStarmast

@Ben Ya don't say ... (engineering major ... experience in both ship board and aviation maintenance)

@Shalvenay Off I go to take a look. :)

Ben

@KorvinStarmast In that case, I will save my own poor explanations XD

KorvinStarmast

02:19

@Ben heh, you haven't really lived until you've had an electrical fire at night, over the ocean, in a helicopter. The term "pucker" takes on a new meaning.

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast yikes

Ben

@KorvinStarmast That... is definitely an experience

KorvinStarmast

Yeah, I am fortunate to be alive. Thank goodness whomever wrote the checklist for handling that was Spot On. yay!

Off to WB to read Shal's post ...

"So I'm thinking about having my race of lightning wielding rabbits wear metal armour."

One of the best intro lines to a question on SE ever. :) @Shalvenay , nice answer, so of course I up voted.

Ben

Note to self: make lightning bunnies that are actually magical balls of lightning

Joel Harmon

@Ben Wisps?

Ben

02:28

@JoelHarmon Step 1: re-skin wisps

Joel Harmon

@Ben Yeah, I hear there are rules for that...

BESW

Speaking of re-skinning, anybody know of a 4e minion with a fun push mechanic?

Joel Harmon

02:53

@BESW As opposed to those boring push mechanics?

That is, define 'fun'.

BESW

Hmm. I want a minion that influences the encounter outside of its own turn.

An aura, an out-of-turn action, an on-death effect...

Magician

...I don't remember 4e notation anymore

Ricochet of Doom +x vs Fort, xx damange and push 2. Triggered on death, or when an enemy enters its squre.

Hmm. Make it push 4 on death.

Ben

03:50

When you do all the research in order to answer a question, and you build a really solid and in-depth explanation... and then the post is deleted before you can post your answer :'(

kviiri

06:11

@BESW I'm doing a quick scan through the Monster Vault manual, let's see

BESW

I did some browsing and came up with something I think I like.

kviiri

Dretch Lackeys (L12 Minion Brute) have a Aura 1 that deals constant damage and stacks. Sounds cool to me

@BESW ok :)

BESW

> Wild Spirit: Small Minion Controller 5
Phasing; immune to cold
Init +7; AC 19, Fort 17, Ref 18, Will 16
MBA: Powerful Paw: +8 vs Ref; 6 cold damage and push 1 square.
Smack Back (immediate reaction when missed by melee attack): MBA against attacker.
Chill Grave: On death, leaves a Cold Spot in that square: starting your turn in a Cold Spot inflicts 5 cold damage. DC 22 check (standard action) removes all Cold Spots in close burst 1.

kviiri

That's cool

At least, depending on the surroundings and the placement of the cold spots.

I'm still a bit uncertain for which purposes one should use minions instead of "real" monsters

Enemies with spammable summoning abilities or "asteroid bosses" are one for sure

BESW

Minions serve a number of different purposes.

One is to make PCs feel awesome.

Another is to force the PCs to make difficult tactical choices.

I like using different specialty roles to naturally "cascade" combat into multiple events.

If you've got four minions, two standards, and an elite on the board, the fight will naturally move from a big brawl to a small fight to a showdown.

As you can see above, I also like to use minion deaths as "you pick where it goes" terrain effects.

kviiri

06:23

Yeah

BESW

I also use them as mobile terrain effects when they're alive.

Minions are especially fun to use that way as add-ons to skill challenges.

kviiri

My thinking about minions has essentially been that they're quasi-projectiles, a bit like Lost Souls in Doom, but you make excellent points (as usual) about the possible width of their use.

BESW

"You've gotta get [task] done before [deadline], but the goblins won't leave you alone. Do you focus on the skill checks, or dedicate some of your turns to keeping the goblins away?"

kviiri

That's an excellent idea

BESW

(It can also help players who don't have useful things to contribute to the challenge.)

kviiri

06:26

That sounds like a very good way to bridge the gap between skill challenges and combat encounters

BESW

A common problem with 4e is that the combat mechanics are intricate enough that it's easy to let them justify combat by themselves, rather than tying it into the plot.

Which leads to "kill the stuff" play.

Which, you know, sure, but if you want something more....

One of the easiest ways to give a 4e combat encounter a goal other than "kill the stuff" is to give it a skill challenge which signals the end of the scene when it's completed (success or failure).

You can even have a contested challenge where the PCs and NPCs are racing to complete the same challenge, or each have their own challenges to complete.

kviiri

Excellent ideas!

BESW

I've also had good success with "get everyone to the other side of the map" encounters, where there's no end to the number of monsters.

Put down a complex map with lots of interesting terrain obstacles and flood it with monsters who have fun opportunity attack actions.

kviiri

Yeah, I like kill the stuff gameplay in moderation... like, a game built around combats, but with the choice of which combats to fight having some importance. But variety is always variety, and I try to aim never having "just a combat" in any case. Your ideas will make it much easier.

BESW

Minions can be REALLY great tools in "flood the map with monsters" encounters, because they pop so easily that the party feels good when they take a moment to hit one.

kviiri

06:33

Yea!

BESW

If the point of the monster is to get in the way, minions are good for that because they accomplish their purpose but don't overstay their welcome.

Actually, that's usually a good way to think of them: poppable obstacles with attitude.

Surround the solo boss with minions and consider them a kind of ablative armor that gets cheeky if ignored.

kviiri

Ablative armor... I like it!

BESW

Narratively, specialty roles indicate how important a creature is to the scene.

A boss isn't solo because he's so tough, he's solo because he's important so he should stick around long enough to make an impression.

The same character could be an elite or standard in a later scene when the party faces his overlord and he's just a supporting character.

So another way to consider minions is as stormtroopers.

They're the nameless extras with the Wilhelm scream.

In D&D 4e, a monster's level and role are always mutable according to the needs of the specific scene.

Minion doesn't mean "weak," it means "individually insignificant."

trogdor

@BESW uh so, the last time you pinged me sent me an invitation to this chat

I just thought you might find that as amusing as I did

BESW

@trogdor Welcome to RPG chat! Feel free to lurk or chat as you like.

trogdor

06:45

lol

yes, I suppose I will try it out

BESW

@kviiri Another thing you can do with minions is... not have them be monsters.

trogdor

XD

BESW

A minion can be a wild spell drifting across the battlefield.

You can get especially creative with this:

kviiri

@BESW Yeah, that's actually something I've thought of earlier. It's no coincidence that I thought of them as "projectiles" :) but it's a good idea, and they can also be auras or something...

BESW

Mike Q

06:47

A minion could be 10 adults who have received a Bar Mitzvah

trogdor

bad, bad minion! XD

BESW

By making a minion immune to popping except under special circumstances (immune to damage unless granting combat advantage, or as above it could have some completely different way to be removed from the board), you can stretch and twist the mechanics to do really cool things.

kviiri

There's a lot for me to learn

The ideas are really neat. I'll try these on... when I actually have the time to run the game :)

Especially the skill challenge+combat thing, that's solid gold and got me flooding with inspiration already.

BESW

I once had an elite controller who could summon four minions.... rechargable when none of its minions are alive.

kviiri

Skill challenges are still kind of weird to me, because they're a bit hard to weave in the fiction at times... but combining them with a combat might help a lot

BESW

06:55

[rummages for example]

This is what I used the Hungry Spirit for:

To introduce a new PC, they had to free her from her prison while the shadows tried to consume them.

Mike Q

I don't know if there are existing mechanics/spells/abilities for this, but you could have a boss+minions configuration where the boss can "absorb" the minions to heal themselves, a la Huff n Puff. Destroying minions (or separating them from the boss) contributes by disabling the boss's healing ability.

BESW

@MikeQ I've done that a few times!

Inspired by Kobold Quarterly:

One of my first boss fights had minions that healed an ally within 3 squares when they died.

So you had to be careful where you killed them.

Also from Kobold Quarterly:

Mike Q

@kviiri In general, I recommend designing encounters to address 2 questions:
1. The obvious one: What are the baddies that want to kill the PCs
2. The one that makes combats interesting: What else is going on in the environment

kviiri

@MikeQ Yeah. One of my favorite tricks for 2 is a strategic hotpoint, a special location whose control gives their side a distinct edge either explicitly ("it's a magic circle that gives advantage on all spell saving throws") or implicitly ("it's a tower with arrow slits and murder holes"). I can't put one in every combat though :)

Mike Q

Those are static hazards. Consider using dynamic hazards too

kviiri

07:04

@BESW Clever!

Mike Q

Part of the room is slowly flooding. Some of the minions are tearing down a wall. Some enemy rogues are going after the PCs' unguarded treasures. Some sacred relics are on fire and will burn to ash in a few turns.

BESW

(Kobold Quarterly was a third-party RPG magazine with a lot of 4e content.)

Apr 4 '16 at 22:46, by BESW

I find that The Big Three Plus One are useful focusing questions for worldbuilding and homebrew, and even for basic GM prep, just as much as they're useful for whole-cloth game design.

kviiri

@MikeQ Another thing I like is monsters with synergies. "Snipers and spotters", for instance, or a more general version "enablers and doers".

Or more implicit synergies too, like the classic meatshields and mages.

BESW

> What is your encounter about?
How does your encounter do this?
How does your encounter encourage / reward this?

kviiri

(Meatshields and Mages would be a good name for a DnD parody game)

@BESW I'll link that (and the encounter version) to my group

They're sure to appreciate it :)

BESW

07:11

Basically it boils down to identifying the purpose of what you're doing, and not losing sight of that.

This keeps you from running off into the hills and producing something totally un-useful, but it also helps you avoid "because that's the way it's done" traps and open your mind to innovative ways to accomplish the goal.

kviiri

Yeah

BESW

Here's a skill challenge that could've been a combat encounter with troops invading the palace, but I thought it'd be more epic this way, capturing the intensity of magical warfare with a low level party:

Also, you'll probably find monster abilities that are cool enough you don't want them to be wasted by low attack rolls, but you don't want to make them spammable either.

That's where creative recharge conditions come into play:

kviiri

07:35

We just had a discussion with my SO regarding perception checks and searching... I'm not sure how to run those.

One would think it'd be simple.

Thinking I'll just ditch perception entirely as a "search the room check" because I can't seem to come to an agreement about how it should be used with her or myself

BESW

Passive or active?

5

Q: D&D 4E, Passive Perception or Passive Insight instead of rolling

In my D&D game, I'm unsure whether to allow players to use their Passive Insight or Passive Perception instead of rolling when they are actively trying to inspect something. Do I make them roll when they're actively trying to inspect something or someone, or do I allow them to use their Passives?

27

Q: How do I use Passive Perception to have some characters notice parts of the environment?

I'm new to DM'ing and have an issue I'm not sure how to deal with. The situation is this: It's pitch black outside and the PC is walking, with a lantern in hand, toward a building. A bird is perched atop the building, watching the PC. The bird is not attempting to hide in any way, but it's al...

dnd-4e gm-techniques

kviiri

@BESW I honestly don't know. Passive perception always struck me as distinctly unfun, like many other things about perception...

BESW

I'd recommend using Gumshoe rules....

kviiri

I would really love to replace the skill roll system with something else, but I blundered into letting my SO read the skill check rules before warning her that I'm not probably going to play them 100% straight for all parts

and she being her, she's already memorized everything :x

BESW

Whoops.

The skill rules are probably one of the weaker parts of the 4e mechanical set.

kviiri

07:44

aye

We have a bit of a philosophical conflict with her regarding the interplay of mechanics and enjoyability

I, as usual, tend towards adjusting mechanics so fun correlates with power. It means discouraging grind and no-brainers, and rolling a perception check when entering an empty room is a no-brainer.

Unless there's a cost associated, which there is because it takes a minute, but seriously I don't know how long a minute is in real life.

Conveying the urgency (or lack of urgency) is seriously difficult

Anyway, she's more of the "the players won't do it if it's not fun" school, which I disagree with because I constantly find myself doing unfun stuff in games.

BESW

Obviously, your group should play deadEarth.

[disclaimer: no one should play deadEarth]

Feb 14 '16 at 8:12, by BESW

deadEarth chargen asks you to roll a minimum of 627d6 + 6d10 for chargen. There is no upper limit, and no guarantee you will get a playable character at the end of the process. So they suggest you roll three characters and pick the most playable.

kviiri

08:01

I recall reading your chargen logs, it's certainly a masterpiece of bad design.

Helwar

@BESW that sounds like a fun experiment to try with my friends. We love trying these shenanigans, if only for the giggles :)

BESW

Jul 6 '14 at 6:39, by lisardggY

No, I do not recommend deadEarth. I do recommend reading the review and laughing hysterically.

deadEarth: The Chargenning

Where characters are rolled but never played

Chargen itself can be a certain flavor of "fun," for vulgar teenage Dwarf Fortress values of "fun," if you leave out at least 600d6 of the process.

But I wouldn't recommend considering the game itself playable.

doppelgreener

@BESW (would you like that room reopened?)

BESW

I have no interest in it, no.

doppelgreener

Ok. :)

trogdor

08:10

lol

let it die

just,.... yeah

XD

BESW

(In this scenario, the dead horse is a deadEarth character halfway through chargen.)

doppelgreener

haaaa

trogdor

lol

@BESW I actually think those characters have been through enough

The system itself must be beaten I to sumission and made to say sorry

The be buried alive maybe

My phone always thinks I want to say the bee emoji

It's constantly interrupting everything with be in it with that emoji and auto replacing it

I mean, on the one hand I can do this 🐉 so easily on this phone but come on

I don't want the emoji every time I have a word starting in be

Sheeesh

kviiri

08:34

@BESW Another minion idea: tactical suicide boss projectiles. Like floating orbs of poisonous radiation that try to slowly follow the players, but can be pushed towards enemies by attacking them.

BESW

Hmm.

kviiri

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (the roguelike game) has a spell called Orb of Destruction. It fires the eponymous OoD towards a target, but unlike other spells in the game the orb travels as a proper projectile (not a "hitscan") and can be dodged by moving sideways relative to it because of its considerable momentum and poor acceleration.

That could also work, although the OoD as is a bit too heavy-weight mechanically to use as-is.

doppelgreener

@trogdor that must 🐝 really frustrating

trogdor

@doppelgreener why you green Doppler you

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Is there any reason to pick an odd number for constitution? by user44631 on rpg.SE

trogdor

08:39

I am gonna say so many polite tings at you you will feel so mildly irked you will never do it again

You will feel so revengeded you won't know what to do

BESW

> FLOATING ORB OF POISONOUS GAS: Tiny Minion Skirmisher, level 5
Init +2; AC 19, Fort 15, Ref 18, Will 17; Spd 3
Kamikaze Smash (MBA): +8 vs Ref, 8 acid damage and slowed (save ends), but minion is destroyed.
"Fore!" (immediate reaction, trigger: takes damage from an attack): the attacker pushes the Orb 3 squares and the orb makes a melee basic attack against every creature in its square.

doppelgreener

@trogdor it's already working

kviiri

@BESW Superb!

doppelgreener

i don't know what to do

@BESW technically also: immune to damage

Helwar

@BESW what a good read :)

BESW

08:48

@doppelgreener Yeah, it'd need a few tweaks to be mechanically coherent for play.

As written it doesn't actually work.

kviiri

Because you can't push it to an occupied square?

BESW

A tiny creature can be pushed through occupied squares but not end the forced movement in one.

Also as written the orb can't make the granted attacks because it's at 0hp or lower when the "Fore!" power triggers.

kviiri

That too

trogdor

09:12

@doppelgreener I knew it, you are already regretting the regrettening

the powers I have unleashed are the absolute in annoyance

BESW

Doppelgreener, probably.

trogdor

@BESW Betrayer! a thousand politenesses upon your head

doppelgreener

@BESW accurate

@BESW i like the Fore! power's arrangement because it means someone with a push/slide movement can do that, then the orb gets pushed 3.

so a push fighter can push it extra far.

BESW

09:54

> FLOATING ORB OF POISONOUS GAS: Tiny Minion Skirmisher, level 5
Spd: fly 3; immune to damage.
Init +2; AC 19, Fort 15, Ref 18, Will 17
Kamikaze Smash, close burst 1: +8 vs Ref, 8 acid damage and slowed (save ends), Orb is destroyed at end of turn.
"Fore!" (immediate reaction, trigger: hit by a damaging attack): the attacker pushes the Orb 3 squares and the orb uses Kamikaze Smash.

It's a Controller now, not a Skirmisher.

Can't take opportunity attacks (no MBA) but it's a nasty one-time AoE debuff.

doppelgreener

@BESW @trogdor did D&D 4e ever have any abilities that said something like "the target dies"? Like, skipping damage and everything, just inflict Status Condition: Dead?

BESW

I think I'd lower the damage to 5.

Pretty sure not.

trogdor

@doppelgreener not that I know of

if it did I would ignore it

technically it had like, some save ends effects that could just kill you

BESW

Oh, yeah.

trogdor

but for those you had to fail several saves

doppelgreener

09:58

Not having anything like that makes a lot of sense, of course.

trogdor

not sure if that counts

BESW

[rummages for that one stupid thing]

doppelgreener

Oh yeah like diseases

trogdor

I mean, it was still bad but, at least it wasn't quite auto death?

doppelgreener

I was thinking more like Finger of Death or whatever. That spell in other editions that just obliterates a target.

trogdor

10:00

if you had no party members who could help with saves though, then it was not something your GM should use

@doppelgreener nah nothing like that that I know of

I only know the one Sladdi disease

kviiri

@doppelgreener IIRC even the Orcus ability of MM1 which is basically a touch of death reduces the target to zero hitpoints instead of instantly killing them. So it seems unlikely any weaker monster would have that privilege.

trogdor

BESW used that one on us but none of us died

doppelgreener

Be reborn as a glorious Slaad?

trogdor

I think our lazy warshaman had some bonuses to saves he could give out

@doppelgreener yeah if it killed you it did that

doppelgreener

@kviiri makes sense. That sounds like the closest approximation and I'm glad that it's a deity that has that.

BESW

10:06

Yeah, so in almost all cases where another edition might say "and dies," 4e says "reduced to 0 hp."

Like, the Bodak's "Gaze of Death" deals necrotic damage and makes you lose a healing surge, but if you're weakened when hit by Gaze of Death you're immediately dropped to 0 hp.

(Its basic attack weakens.)

There's also "dies if reduced to 0 hp by this attack" effects.

kviiri

I think diseases have "the target dies" where applicable.

BESW

(The Sphere of Annihilation deals ongoing damage which crumbles you to dust if you drop to 0hp from it.)

Yes.

trogdor

@BESW oh I don't like that

doppelgreener

Ok, cool. Those still follow from damage, or attacks let someone recover because they dropped to 0 and can try healing.

BESW

10:24

Yeah.

And like, with the Bodak attack, both the attack the weakens and the attack that drops you to 0hp if you're weakened are standard actions.

So there's a full round to anticipate the potential drop.

doppelgreener

Right, and it's not "you're dead, bye"; it's "oh no, what just happened, someone do some healing and let's not let that happen a second time"

trogdor

I don't like death on 0 hp though

I wouldn't use attacks like that personally

in 4e it's supposed to be taken for granted that 0 hp isn't actually as close to death as you would think

kviiri

yep

I would avoid them too, and if for some reason I was compelled to use such an attack against my players, I'd be sure they knew what was happening way ahead of time.

trogdor

that too

kviiri

No gotchas.

trogdor

10:38

gotcha, your character is dead now

XD

yeah I mean, there are not a lot of them necessarily, but there are some builds for being at 0 hp

and while I don't suggest trying to be at 0 hp, if someone has a build like that auto killing them at 0 hp is extra mean spirited

Not that it's just fine otherwise

BESW

Two things, I think, help with context: First, when a character is subject to an effect, the character's controller becomes aware of the effect's full text--for example, a marked PC knows what kind of punishment they can expect for defying the mark.

Second, most of the really nasty "death at 0hp" stuff I've come across comes from either artifacts or the Tomb of Horrors Super-Adventure.

kviiri

10:59

@BESW A very good principle!

BESW

I know, right.

Yet another 4e design principle that helped prime me for Fate.

trogdor

Mmm

Fair enough I guess

As long as they are not on monsters

BESW

11:33

8

A: What can you do while dead?

Based on my research, it appears that death is not actually a condition and thus being dead does nothing. It is difficult to prove a negative in this sense, but I could find nothing that really defines it. Although there are many places where being dead is called out such as in the Dying and Dea...

And, of course:

doppelgreener

11:44

@BESW [gentle poke]

BESW

@doppelgreener Internet hiccoughed, posted text and link backwards.

doppelgreener

oh. XD

Hobo_warrior

12:07

@Axoren yeah, I was testing the bounty featur out

Axoren

12:34

@BESW Does 4e not have a Dead condition?

trogdor

it has that

but it only happens under certain conditions

I believe -1/4th hp

Axoren

Personally, I feel like Dead should be a general purpose condition.

trogdor

and certain very rare death effects

Axoren

And things like Lay on Hands and be spec'd out to remove them.

trogdor

@Axoren how so?

Axoren

12:35

Revive (spell): "Target loses the dead condition."

trogdor

do you mean, applied relatively often but also just as easily removed?

Axoren

It would make spell descriptions so much easier.

Tiggerous

'And gains the alive condition'?

Axoren

No, that would be stupid.

:P

Tiggerous

So they're undead?

trogdor

12:37

lol

Axoren

Would save-or-die spells be written as "Target loses the alive condition and gains the dead condition."

Things like Orcish Tenacity (or whatever the fire they're going with in whatever edition you're using) would say "When you would gain the dead condition, you instead keep your alive condition?"

Maybe it should be a tiered condition, like Fatigue and Exhaustion.

Alive --> Dead --> Super-dead

nitsua60

@Axoren Language, please.

Thanks.

Axoren

Sorry, I only know so many f-words. I hope the one I chose was fine.

'Fine' being the third one I know.

nitsua60

Hobo_warrior

@nitsua60 how do you embed an image

nitsua60

12:42

@Hobo_warrior Generally, a chat-message which is just a URL to an image will self-embed. So www.foo.bar/yourimage.png will pop up nicely.

Axoren

@Hobo_warrior It has to be uploaded through stack.imgur.com if you want to be really sure it will embed.

Otherwise, I think it's just sites which properly tag their HTTP response headers for images.

Nzall

you need to be on the image page itself though, and it can't be behind an authentication wall

nitsua60

Second-tier: the "upload..." button next to send will let you select a file which gets uploaded to imgur and handled nicely.

Easter-egg: typing "this is fine."

Axoren

You tricked me...

I tricked myself...

That worked pretty fine, at least

SPavel

2

goodguy5

12:48

Morning, Nerds

Tiggerous

Afternoon :)

Axoren

I had a party decide to spend 3 weeks in-game planning to poison the water supply of a goblin tribe instead of doing a gauntlet of smaller battles during a raid.

I considered telling them how weak goblins were normally and that if you don't screw around, you can get through like 20 goblins without having to worry about running out of resources.

Instead, they lured away goblins pairs at a time, days apart, and killed a raccoon.

SPavel

@Tiggerous Morning, afternoons

Axoren

And accelerated an unrelated rebellion.

Sometimes, players feel like the direct approach isn't the way to go, and if it takes sloppy catfish reacharounds to prove it, they'll do that first.

goodguy5

no plan survives first contact with the party

doppelgreener

12:55

@SPavel this is a fantastic summary

deadEarth: The Chargenning

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