TRPG General Chat

goodguy5

00:03

@nitsua60 eh unless you're telling me not to flag things, I'm going to keep doing it

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I think it was more of a "you don't have to" since the edit/reopen is sufficient. Flagging it does basically the same exact thing.

nitsua60

@goodguy5 I'm not going to say not to... but I'd point out that moderators' attention/time is a finite resource and the more we're drawn to things that the community at large can handle/is handling, the less time and attention we have for things that truly require moderator intervention.

Yannick MG

Thanks @nitsua60, I'll just patiently impatient. :)

I'll just be*

nitsua60

My rule of thumb with flags was to throw one when there was that thing tickling the back of my head saying "something doesn't seem quite right, here." Or when it seemed like normal community processes were breaking down. But I'm not saying that's right or any other person's litmus test is wrong. Each of us who've earned the privilege to throw the various flags need to find our own principles of discernment.

@YannickMG Sounds good =)

(But I believe it's also good for us to talk about these principles we develop, so that's why I'm yakking your ears off.)

BESW

Fate Dice / Fate Points update for may: some hiccups on Infernal Dice (working on it) and some gawjus pics of the upcoming new Fate Point tokens! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/fate-dicetm-and-fate-pointstm-accessories-for-fate/posts/2182281

Tweeted by fredhicks on May 8, 2018 at 6:34 PM

Baskakov_Dmitriy

00:19

@MikeQ Seems like my attempt to increase bow energy has created some resonance :D. Hey, RPG.SE chat, long time no see. What's fun: my fellow LARPers weren't so opposed by this idea. Culture differences matter.

David Coffron

@nitsua60 Well, I have only ever flagged things when I think they should be deleted (like abusive or spam)... but that is just me

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Glad we could help.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@DavidCoffron Actually, got no help there, my question about this got deleted.

David Coffron

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Oh I thought you were talking about this question: How do I promote the use of crossbows...

I was slightly confused by your wording. lol

goodguy5

Alright nits. Loud and clear. I throw flags on my list of features I don't use anymore.

Alongside comments and stars.

Mike Q

@goodguy5 You should also avoid using nouns

goodguy5

00:27

:-/

Not in the mood for your crap Mike

Mike Q

Sorry about that, my jokes are bad. And there's nothing wrong with commenting or starring

David Coffron

@MikeQ But I like using nouns. Oh crap, noun is a noun. Wait, so is crap... umm... singing, jumping, green, their...

nitsua60

@goodguy5 I'm not saying "don't flag," please don't take it that way. I'm saying that "flag when normal user actions would also suffice" should, I think, be used with a little bit of thought. Abusive, SPAM, go ahead and flag. Reopening? Sometimes, but maybe sometimes not.

goodguy5

Disagree.

But it's fine. I've solved the problem.

I can't use it wrong if I don't use it.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@Trish I've actually found a way to circumvent this. Not sure if it is OK to share those instructions here, but my way is perfectly legal, gonna order a custom bow soon. Protip, though: the draw weight of the bow changes across its path from maximum to zero (1) and you can influence time that the string spends accelerating the arrow.

David Coffron

00:30

@goodguy5 If you get the urge to have something reopened, I recommend dropping in here and asking others with that privilege. Sometimes people just don't notice a question has been edited. It's sometimes even faster than flagging for moderators

Baskakov_Dmitriy

My question about promoting crossbow use has some more interesting clues for those interested.

David Coffron

I am interested :) Not a LARPer but the idea behind it is cool (don't have the time, nor have I found a group with rules I like/agree with)

nitsua60

And with all that said, I've got an awkward request...
Would a couple of people mind throwing a couple of flags? Just grab a post and flag it and some answers with a custom mod-flag saying "nitsua made me do it" or whatever. Thanks.

Mike Q

@nitsua60 Sure. How many is a couple in this sense?

nitsua60

In my culture? Two.

=)

The number's not hugely important. I guess it just matters how much you want to inflate your "helpful" flag count. =D

William

00:35

@nitsua60 is your name austin backwards?

David Coffron

@nitsua60 I threw up 3 in main and 1 in chat.

nitsua60

@William 't'is.

William

also just get your post flagged

what should I mark it as?

nitsua60

Cool--that's good. Seven to play with.

William

> And with all that said, I've got an awkward request...
Would a couple of people mind throwing a couple of flags? Just grab a post and flag it and some answers with a custom mod-flag saying "nitsua made me do it" or whatever. Thanks.

valid invalid or not sure?

nitsua60

00:36

@William Well... if you want to get me kicked out of the room you could mark it valid =)

(I should have been clearer: it was only post/comment flags I was interested in, not chat flags.)

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@nitsua60 Flagged 2 answers for you ^_^

William

@nitsua60 my legal name is actually austin williams. As a kid I would go to austin texas and buy austin hats and shirts.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@nitsua60 Why did you need this, though?

nitsua60

@William We have a bunch of "Austin" apparel/swag, too.

William

My mobile phone number is also an austin, texas area code. Makes phone calls confusing sometimes.

Catija

00:39

@Baskakov_Dmitriy He's on a quest from a fair maiden.

nitsua60

@Baskakov_Dmitriy I'm proofing/critiquing a README someone's working on for... oh, hey! We were just talking about you, @Catija. All good things, all good things.

Catija

And I live in Austin... so ... whee?

William

keep nitsua60 weird!! (Your new SE campaign slogan)

Catija

@nitsua60 Yeah... sure... ;)

Hi, all, I'm Catija... I use a lot of elipses... not sure why.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

Wow

Someone without an RPG.SE profile joins an RPG chat!

Whoa!

nitsua60

00:42

@Catija I went to school... near there =) (A small little school in College Station.)

Baskakov_Dmitriy

Scared

Catija

@Baskakov_Dmitriy ... I have no clue what you're talking about... ;)

William

So using the wolfamalpha.com average austin age graph you should be 16 nitsua60

I'm not either so it is a partial joke

nitsua60

@William Yes. That is a true statement. However, I remember what kind of person I was at 16, and I'll take middle-aged any day.

David Coffron

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Average+age+of+Davids I got 50. Hmph

Baskakov_Dmitriy

00:45

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Average+age+of+Dmitriy I got nothing :(

David Coffron

But female David is 27 and you'll never know (unless you dig up that chat transcript where I told my gender)

William

Its probably better to have an old name then it is to have a young name in terms of job prospects but I'm not sure

David Coffron

@William in some industries maybe, but in others new names might be better (like tech for example, always looking for new blood)

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@DavidCoffron David can be a female name? O_o

William

Baskakov can be a female name? O_o

Baskakov_Dmitriy

00:48

Baskakov is a last name lol

William

shows how much I know

Baskakov_Dmitriy

And it can turn female

David Coffron

@William At least a few: facebook.com/davidsedaris/posts/837127319648212

Baskakov_Dmitriy

It is "Baskakova" in female form

I am shocked more than when I got to know that Maria can be a male name

nitsua60

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Evelyn is one of my favorite "surprise" male names. Alongside "Edith." (First pronounced with a long first "e," second with a short first "e.")

Baskakov_Dmitriy

00:52

BTW, there are some names that have both male and female form in Russian language. For example, Alexandr and Alexanra (the short for of BOTH is Sasha), or Yevgeniy and Yevgeniya (the short form of both is Zhenya). Now try to guess the gender of someone named Zhenya or Sasha with a last name that also doesn't reveal gender and something unrelated on their profile pic :D

@nitsua60 Awesome. I will write that down so I can kill my opponents in mind duels.

William

you may be the highest ranked user legally named austin on the SE site

I am on SO unless someone else is also not going by their legal name(which is quite likely)

Baskakov_Dmitriy

(If my bow of OK draw weight with increased energy fails and I have to engage in a mind duel)

@William Going everywhere by one's legal name is fun

At least it allows people to easily find me in social media

William

@Baskakov_Dmitriy yeah I picked my last name. Figured it isn't to confusing. Plus my last name is that more common.

I prefer to blend in.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@William You can always change your legal last name to make going with it on the internet more fun!

trogdor

Hmph lots of people on here using actual people names

XD :P

Mike Q

00:57

@trogdor What sort of fool uses their name on the internet?

nitsua60

@trogdor Funny how no one ever believes you're actually Trogdor?

trogdor

@MikeQ I wouldn't call it foolish per se

Baskakov_Dmitriy

Lol

trogdor

I just don't like doing so myself

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@MikeQ Fools like me

trogdor

00:58

It's more fun to make up my own moniker, and to be fair maybe a little safer

@nitsua60 lol

If only everyone would buy that one

Mike Q

@trogdor Don't worry trogdor, I believe you

trogdor

Good to hear it

Baskakov_Dmitriy

Fools that want to be findable by their alias so that people can find their awesome photos from the time when their hair was still long pp.userapi.com/c636325/v636325513/7780f/D6S71qoTe-0.jpg

Or cool photos of playing an elven bard with a drum 1) pp.userapi.com/c834303/v834303733/131253/BMFxEwdv7DE.jpg 2) pp.userapi.com/c834303/v834303733/1312ac/7jSEj5FBTI8.jpg 3) pp.userapi.com/c846021/v846021404/3e844/3oo06YxDfFI.jpg

nitsua60

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Anyone else spooked out by that trash can dressed as a ghost trying to sneak through the garden?

trogdor

It's definitely got it's arms up in the "I'm sneaking" position

Baskakov_Dmitriy

01:07

Spooky scary trashy cans
Send shivers down your spine

Baskakov_Dmitriy

02:05

@nitsua60 Nitsua made me raise a flag and then declined it. :( How dare you!

nitsua60

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Yeah, but I marked a bunch as helpful < sheepish grin>

Baskakov_Dmitriy

02:21

Nitsua powerful, Nitsua cause pipol reis flegs

nitsua60

here me rore

David Coffron

@nitsua60 That's me

KorvinStarmast

03:38

@Catija And I proposed to my wife in Austin, but I am not sure if that kept Austin weird or not.

@trogdor I stopped using my real name on line before 1993. For what I consider to be good reasons now and then.

trogdor

I figure that it gives a certain amount of protection

KorvinStarmast

More then than now, but it was interesting to learn why it was a good idea. I understand why some people use own name, but I have reasons that I can't, then and now.

trogdor

But I also enjoy using a separate name for things for the heck of it too

KorvinStarmast

And making up nicknames is fun. :)

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast secret agent confirmed.

KorvinStarmast

03:44

Uh, hardly.

trogdor

@KorvinStarmast seems entirely fair to me

Rubiksmoose

You can't fool me with your secret agent tricks.

trogdor

@Rubiksmoose lol, that's an over the top reason for sure

KorvinStarmast

This is not the 00 agent you are looking for, Rubiksmoose :)

I was regular navy, not something sooper sekrit ...

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast Luckily I am wearing this foil hat. It blocks all the secret agent tricks.

:)

KorvinStarmast

03:46

Heh, gold foil blocks better than tin foil ... just sayin' :)

Rubiksmoose

For some reason my gold foil hats keep disappearing. Probably my cats.

KorvinStarmast

(that's why they used a layer of gold on original Apollo helmets ... and cats prefer copper foil ... for reasons not yet discerned ...

Note to @trogdor remind me to get Rrjush some copper foil ....

Rubiksmoose

Now, for fencing, I find gold to be a very insufficient foil material.

trogdor

Did someone say gold? I'll take that thanks

KorvinStarmast

Hmm, I have failed my saving throw verus "summon spouse spell" cast by my dearly beloved. Best wishes all.

trogdor

03:48

@KorvinStarmast lol

KorvinStarmast

:)

trogdor

See ya

Rubiksmoose

@trogdor You've got to earn yur gold on this here site buddy ol' pal.

trogdor

I already have , so where is it eh?

XD

Rubiksmoose

Probably still in the mail. I'm sure it'll come eventually.

but now it is time for sleep I suppose.

ttyl

trogdor

03:51

I have been waiting 20 seconds already

See ya then

Guess I'll wait one minute then BURNINATE stuff

Rubiksmoose

@trogdor this is always the correct reaction.

now I'm gone for realz

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose I removed my comment about the icicle, are you going to remove yours yet? :)

Rubiksmoose

04:12

@MikeQ done. Sorry hasn't been back to check or anything.

The Oracle

05:36

0

Q: D&D 5th Edition Wikia - favicon

Has anyone else noticed - the favicon for D&D 5th Edition Wikia looks to be copied from this meta SE. Is there a reason for this? Does anyone here care? I suppose it looks like it's not exactly the same... but it is basically impossible to tell from a glance when I have 50 tabs open in Chrome. D...

Trish

07:16

@Baskakov_Dmitriy You didn't cheat physcs there. You didn't change a property of the stored energy equitation if it is still under the legal draw weight (there is no more energy stored in the bow/crossbow) but you changed the function in which the energy is transmitted to the bolt - you certainly can optimize this function in certain ways. A Compound setup for example has a more optimized transmission of energy in contrast to a normal bow.

Tiggerous

07:38

Those two rogue questions asked yesterday strike me as both just being smokescreens for the author's actual question, which they haven't asked.

It seems to me that they're really asking (or wanting to find out), 'Are rogues generally considered to be overpowered, in comparison to other official classes, in dnd 5e?'

Formulated that way I don't think its a stack friendly question, but I still think that's what they really want to know.

Neither of the other (more stack friendly) questions that they have actually asked, to try and get at this concern, seem to be especially helpful to anyone.

Mike Q

08:21

Has anyone been checking on the eagles lately? The baby is getting big!

doppelgreener

It is!!

It ought to begin being visibly feathered a week from now, I think.

Maybe two weeks.

trogdor

every time I try to check it I see like, 10 seconds at most

doppelgreener

08:36

It is a fairly HD eagle stream :(

trogdor

it is

but wtv, I can still grab some vicarious enjoyment

the chat liking the eagles is a fair compromise

BESW

@doppelgreener How many hit dice do the eagles have?

doppelgreener

@BESW The baby has at least three.

BESW

It's a 3 HD eagle? Wow, that's impressive.

doppelgreener

It is!

Sorry, I meant fairly in the "very" sense not in the sense someone had done the HD fairly.

doppelgreener

09:13

(obviously whoever did the HD is insane, or planning for a LOTR story)

Tiggerous

10:27

Bother, I think I'm going to hit the daily rep cap earlier than is ideal today...(especially having just missed it yesterday)...

Helwar

why is even there? the rep cap, i mean. Wouldn't it be better if people is incentived to keep interacting rather than waiting for the next "reset" in order to have more rep? :)

trogdor

I think it's mostly to keep people from gaming something

Sdjz

Why is there a daily reputation limit of 200 points?

trogdor

I mean, I never even hit the cap myself,.... that being said I don't post much

@Sdjz righto, good work there

Sdjz

It's from SO but it probably applies to all stacks

trogdor

10:32

though I don't know if it's different here and in SO?

@Sdjz I would assume it does, but that is the only misgiving I have on it

Tiggerous

I think the main purpose is probably to stop people getting priviliges too quickly, without gain general awareness of the culture of the stack.

Helwar

@Sdjz good to know! When there's a policy that I don't understand why it's there, usually the cause is i haven't thought outside the box enough,

and the policy is there to stop abuses or pitfalls i haven't even concieved :P

trogdor

it's always good to ask a question about that kind of thing if you think you don't understand it

Helwar

I always do, and always learn a new thing :)

trogdor

:)

doppelgreener

10:44

@Sdjz it does, yeah.

@Tiggerous yep, it's so that people have to stick around long enough to familiarise themselves with how things work here, before they get the tools to change things.

the edit privilege (2000 rep) is particularly dangerous to give to someone not familiar with how things work.

BESW

The Hero’s Journey 1. The call to adventure 2. Refusing the call 3. Village burned down by orcs 4. Make out with an elf 5. Get drunk with gnomes 6. Eat suspicious mushrooms that might be magic 7. Make out with a wizard 8. Obtain the hookshot 9. Beat the water temple 10. Bearwar

Tweeted by SamSykesSwears on May 7, 2018 at 9:28 AM

trogdor

@BESW bearwar XD

yes please

BESW

> Bearwar. Your physical attacks have the weapon:2 quality which inflicts mental stress, because all your physical attacks are bears. When you succeed with style on a physical attack, the target's zone gains the aspect Bearswarm with a free invoke for the GM.

Tiggerous

Certainly it was useful to me to have my edit suggestions reviewed by others for a reasonable period of time, before I gained the privilige to edit without approval. It's taught me to be more careful than I might have been otherwise (Not that I had many suggested edits rejected...but you know what I mean).

doppelgreener

> Bear hands. You get +2 to using your bear hands to overcome problems with unreasonable amounts of physical force.

Tiggerous

10:54

@BESW I saw that yesterday, Loved the Zelda reference. Zelda managed that system of finding an item which changes the dungeon dynamic midway through really well. I'd like to be better at including that in my homebrew dungeons.

Does the 'track next tag badge' function actually work? Whenever I select it, it just shows 0/XX on the tracker, which is untrue. Is it broken, or do I need to leave it time to update?

trogdor

@doppelgreener should have expected this obviously

doppelgreener

@Tiggerous it works. it should be immediate.

@trogdor :D

trogdor

hehe

doppelgreener

are you seeing literally "0/XX"? if so that would be a bug to report.

Tiggerous

No, just '0/100 score' and '0/20 answers'

(It's not a tag for which either of those things is true)

(I fixed it - when you toggle between priviliges and tag-badges it's blank for the default selected tag badge, but it updates (and works fine) as soon as you select a specific tag badge.)

fectin

11:49

@KorvinStarmast @KorvinStarmast it just wasn't worth arguing any more.

goodguy5

morning nerds

Tiggerous

Afternoon :)

doppelgreener

Noon o/

kviiri

12:04

As a little exercise in recursive grammars, I made a little script that creates heavy metal band names

goodguy5

ooh

kviiri

Öthöla Zezy is so far my favorite

goodguy5

that's one of my favorite "games" with my brother in law.
<normal talking> < says some phrase, such as electric shark>
"good band name"

doppelgreener

12:27

@kviiri What kind of algorithm is that? :D

kviiri

@doppelgreener Just a recursive generator, like a recursive parser but for generating instead of parsing :P

The basic idea is to define a context-free grammar for the strings desired, then implement a function for each non-terminal symbol so that it returns each of the possible productions from that non-terminal

Rubiksmoose

So, very mildly interesting story: last night the friend that introduced me to RPGs texted me for the first time in years. The reason he thought to do it was because he had seen my username on SE on an answer and he had no idea that I was still doing RPGs much less was on SE. It was nice to talk to him again. (end of story)

Tiggerous

That's fun - is he on here as well then?

Rubiksmoose

12:42

@Tiggerous I didn't ask, but I assumed not. For one thing, I think if he was active here he probably would have seen my name earlier since he is also doing 5e stuff.

But that guy had what seemed to be a god-like knowledge of D&D and Star Wars lore and he was a very good DM.

Moral of the story: you can blame that guy for having to deal with me ;)

To those above 25k: For the site analytics, can anybody see site traffic before/after April 4/April 11? All data outside that range appears as 0 to me.

Tiggerous

@doppelgreener I may have overreacted here. Please clean up the comments as you see fit.

Rubiksmoose

In case you cared, it does seem to be a bit of an overrreaction.

You can always delete you own comments though if you think you crossed a line.

@Tiggerous can you clarify something about that answer though?

along the same lines of that comment chain (and something I wondered before)

SPavel

13:11

@kviiri ikeaordeath.com

Öthöla Zezy would be a chair.

BREAKING NEWS: New artifact of Vecna discovered!

Tweeted by DungeonFacts on May 9, 2018 at 12:59 PM

doppelgreener

@SPavel brilliant

@kviiri ooh. is that a markov chain that just generates outward until it decides the words are done?

kviiri

@doppelgreener Hmm, I guess it could be modeled as one, for a non-recursive implementation

doppelgreener

oh, well, sort of like it. :) i'm not very familiar with the varieties of generation techniques available.

kviiri

13:26

oh, the English term (for the equivalent parser) is recursive descent

@SPavel All hail Vecna and all the secrets he nose!

SPavel

We did it, Internet

This is the end, shut it down

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Did to me yesterday as well.

kviiri

@trogdor Thanks for the explanation, I told this to my friends. Seems like the two classes aren't really that greatly mechanically distinct, but I don't guess anyone really minds.

@SPavel Oui

KorvinStarmast

@trogdor Not sure if you browse paladin questions and answers, but here's one you may find of interest I think all three answers (including my own) are worth considering.

Tiggerous

@Rubiksmoose I'll try and do it justice, when I have a moment.

doppelgreener

13:38

@SPavel wow, this is impressive XD

I trust people have heard of the Head of Vecna story?

(if not, there you go ^)

Sdjz

@doppelgreener strangely, this site seems to be blocked in my country

doppelgreener

@Sdjz What about an archived version?: web.archive.org/web/20180509133908/http://www.blindpanic.com/…

Sdjz

@doppelgreener that worked, thanks

SPavel

Head of Vecna is up there with Eric's Gazebo as far as classic D&D stories go

These days it's just "my DM didn't read the rules on Bluff and one of the players abused that lapse to turn the campaign into a farce"

Or "we decided to houserule terrible fumble rules and the barbarian castrated himself while trying to tie his shoelace, isn't that grand"

Helwar

I don't know Eric's Gazebo, do you have a link?

SPavel

13:51

Eric and the Dread Gazebo

"The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo" is a role-playing game (RPG) inspired anecdote, made famous by Richard Aronson (designer of The Ruins of Cawdor, a graphical MUD). Aronson's account first appeared in print in the APA Alarums and Excursions in either 1985 or 1986 (accounts vary). It was reprinted in Mensa's RPG APA, The Spell Book in 1987, from there (with one jump) to The Mensa Bulletin in 1988, and then it jumped to the internet. It has remained popular and been frequently plagiarized ever since. The story, as it has always been published, was "Eric and the Gazebo" but many plagiarized...

Helwar

thank you very mucho

SPavel

Link to the text: web.archive.org/web/20080804140516/http://www.dreadgazebo.com/…

Tiggerous

@Rubiksmoose I've removed the section of my answer that argued for an interruption between hit and dealing damage. Does that fix it? Or do you also think 'the javelin being thrown' can not be interupted before hit is determined?

goodguy5

@SPavel weird Richard Aronson is the exact name of my old real estate agent

Rubiksmoose

@Tiggerous The former was my biggest objection by far. I do disagree with the latter, but I think that is at least somewhat debatable per the rules. I do think that allowing too fine of triggers is just a mess and I think the rules aren't made to handle it.

kviiri

13:58

I think it's the coarse triggers that are a problem. (as we discussed way back)

RAW there's no reason a player readying an action shouldn't just choose "any perceptible circumstance occurs".

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri oh yeah that too honestly. But it can be both coarse and fine in that way.

Sdjz

@Tiggerous I don't see why this is being treated so differently than other similar situations such as this

Rubiksmoose

@Tiggerous So while I still don't agree with the answer entirely, I agree a lot more at least.

Helwar

@kviiri happens too often IMHO

kviiri

@Helwar RAW doesn't care :)

Tiggerous

14:00

@Rubiksmoose Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated.

Rubiksmoose

@Sdjz Well in this case it is because the trigger is worded such that it happens after the actual event: "after the bandit releases the next javelin". The rules do not restrict the making of triggers in such a way technically.

Slagmoth

@Sdjz Sorry, I have yet to spend the time to learn how and when to break these off to chats.

Tiggerous

@Sdjz Well I hadn't see that answer before. I suppose there's a rational disconnect in peoples minds - because fire comes out of a dragon's mouth in a continuous stream it seems like an attack that hits instantaneously. Whereas everyone can visualise the perceptible moment, to set a trigger, when a javelin has been released but has not connected, and so is sort of loose, hanging in the air.

Slagmoth

If you break triggers down this far you are running down a slippery slope. Throwing the javelin is the Bandit's attack, that would/should be the trigger.

Sdjz

@Slagmoth Hey I'm not an expert either but when I see 10 comments in a row it starts getting suspiciously chatty :)

Tiggerous

14:04

@Sdjz It's probably be a false dichotomy

Sdjz

@Tiggerous What do you mean?

Tiggerous

@Sdjz Just becuase it's easy for our brain to mentally seperate those two things, doesn't mean they really should be treated differently (as Rubiksmoose and Slagmoth are arguing)

Sdjz

@Tiggerous Ok but which two things are you referring to? Sorry I'm completely lost now.

Tiggerous

@Sdjz The dragon breath and the javelin.

Sdjz

@Tiggerous Hm but doesn't that contradict your answer then?

Slagmoth

14:07

@Tiggerous My main point here is that this system is turn based... as all before it. It id not done in real time nor are pieces of actions done. You declare an action. In the case of the OP the Bandit Attacks. As part of the attack he throws the javelin. I can see it being fun to interrupt it and do what you are detaling but I do not believe it follows RAW.

Tiggerous

@Yes, it would, I'm considering revising.

Helwar

yeah, I see where people want to do the thing that "makes sense" in a continuous timeline... but turns don't make sense really and it's hard to try to force them to do

Slagmoth

@Helwar Exactly, if we tried to run this game with that sort of granular scale we would be at a single round of combat for 2 sessions. :)

Helwar

it's like when someone is chasing you. It's ridiculous. A disengages, moves 30. Then waits patiently as B moves 30, whacks him with a club, rinse and repeat

Slagmoth

Yeah chase rules in turns is always a suck.

Tiggerous

14:10

@Slagmoth Either it's not RAW, in which case we don't do it, or it is technically RAW 'but the start of slippery slope' and should be allowed or discoruages at DM's discretion. I think I'll edit my answer to add a caveat to this effect. (I'm still not convinced that allowing is imbalanced, though, that's a completely different discussion).

kviiri

@Helwar It's true that it's ridiculous. That's the reason why DnD does have separate rules for chases, though.

Slagmoth

@Tiggerous I totally understand that it might not be imbalanced but the OP did ask for RAW, even though they didn't use the tag for it.

kviiri

However, those rules for some reason are hidden in the DMG :|

doppelgreener

pronounced "dimguh"

Helwar

i would not allow it if it "emulates" a specific ability or spell. For example, people trying to counterspell tugging the hands of the caster with a readied action "if he starts to cast"... I would say that either you counterspell, or he casts, then you do your action....

Tiggerous

14:12

@Slagmoth someone removed the tag

Slagmoth

Oh, didn't see that.

Sdjz

@Tiggerous Indeed, my disagreement is not really about imbalance, that is more of a matter of opinion.

Helwar

@kviiri It does? But chases happen usually within combat... do i have to engage in another set of rules while I'm doing combat?

Tiggerous

@Slagmoth I have in the past found when it was appropriate to use rules as written tag, and when not to, confusing, so I can appreciate that someone else has also been confused by it.

kviiri

@Helwar 5e does, as does 4e IIRC. But in both cases, it's hidden in the DMG and I've never seen any GM use it. It's much easier to pretend a rule set that is effectively hidden from the players doesn't exist.

Sdjz

14:14

@Tiggerous lack of a RAW tag does not mean you shouldn't do a RAW answer though. the RAW tag wiki reads "Not for questions about normal clarifications of the written rules."

Slagmoth

@Tiggerous Yeah, I have apparently misused it as well on occassion... seems weird.

Rubiksmoose

There was a big battle on this SE about that tag.

kviiri

@Helwar By "within combat", do you mean kiting strategies or such?

Helwar

@kviiri mostly

that or someone booking it while the rest of the group battles...

both happen often

Rubiksmoose

I believe the way it is used now is to tag questions that are looking for a strict literalistic reading of the text. It is usually only used for questions that are looking at perceived conflicts in very precise wordings of the rules.

Slagmoth

14:17

@Tiggerous @KorvinStarmast Removing my comments from the answer as we have hashed things out here.

kviiri

@Helwar I'd probably do this case by just removing them from combat and running the chase scene afterwards, if there's any point in playing it to its full length

Slagmoth

Been so long since I have read those rules.

I will have to look at them again.

kviiri

The kiting case is much more tricky, but I tend to run environments where they're difficult strategies to leverage anyway.

Tiggerous

@Slagmoth Removed my comments too. I'll tag all relevant people here, once I've finished my edit.

Slagmoth

Anyone have a method to re-introduce Survival perils though? With the new Ranger and Goodberry it seems that the wilderness is not as dangerous as it really should be. Don't get me wrong it should not be overdone but some of my favorite adventures had some battle with the elements in them.

Helwar

14:19

@kviiri in my case it's usually THAT ONE PLAYER that summons a demon to "participate" in combat while runs around the dungeon with all the nasties following a la benny hill, looking for treasure, and dimensional doors away when either he finds it or is in serious trouble

doppelgreener

@Tiggerous everyone is a relevant person. please do not ping everybody.

:)

Slagmoth

Like the Desert of Desolation and Frost Giant's Jarl

kviiri

One of those things I'll need to improve in my DnD mastering is shortening or removing that final part of a combat encounter where everyone just wants it to end already

Helwar

@kviiri me too

kviiri

In mechanical (partial) solutions, I've got the escalation counter from 13th Age. Gonna try that out in our next 4e game.

SPavel

14:20

@kviiri If the enemies are sapient, they surrender. If they are intelligent, they flee. If they are mindless, they fight to the death.

Slagmoth

@SPavel Not really anymore Mindless enemies... at least in 5E maybe oozes.

kviiri

@SPavel But a fight against mindless creatures is in no way exempt from "this fight is no longer interesting and we've basically won anyway"

Slagmoth

I suppose automotan works instead... Golem and undead.

Animated anyway.

Rubiksmoose

@Slagmoth undead are described as mindless but they actually have Int oddly.

IIRC

kviiri

Well my computer has, by some definition, Int but it's still mindless :)

Slagmoth

14:22

@Rubiksmoose Animated undead are pseudo-mindless.. they are told to do something, so controlled obviously.

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Intel inside?

Slagmoth

They can figure out ways to get to you, unlike previous editions iirc

LOL

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose I was thinking about the data type :)

(integer)

SPavel

@kviiri A fight against mindless creatures wasn't interesting when it started

Slagmoth

Actually, MM says "skeletons aren't mindless"

kviiri

14:23

@SPavel I disagree

SPavel

@kviiri That is why you have the boring fight portion problem

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri lol! probably lots of those as well I'd wager.

Slagmoth

Zombies are.

Rubiksmoose

I think every fight can and does suffer from it at some point.

kviiri

@SPavel No it's not

Helwar

14:25

well, it's not the mindless creatures that make the battle interesting or not, but the stakes.

Rubiksmoose

eg BBEG incapacitated, time to clean up the mooks.

SPavel

@Helwar I strongly recommend you do not cook steaks from zombies or giant vermin

Slagmoth

@kviiri What I have done in the past for combats like that is when it is clear that it is just going through the motions I hand wave the rest and possibly just give some vestigal damage depeding on how outclassed the enemy is and call it won.

Rubiksmoose

@SPavel who said anything about cooking them?

Helwar

@SPavel Why not? I recommend you read Dungeon Mushi,

Slagmoth

14:26

@SPavel Not without purification magic at least.

SPavel

@Rubiksmoose Yum, carrion tartare...

Rubiksmoose

XD

kviiri

@Slagmoth The escalation counter thing I swiped from 13th Age is a bonus to attack rolls that increments each round

Slagmoth

ah

kviiri

It ought to speed up combat's late stages so there's less drag due to bad rolls, but I'm not sure yet whether it's enough.

Helwar

14:28

I have to recognize that I'm not the brightest bulb that there is, in combat strategy.... But do any of you tend to find your monsters "locked" in combat more often than not? I think I should be moving them around, maybe mobbing the casters or something, but I never find the tradeofff oportunity attack... worthy enough...

kviiri

Also I'm not sure if it's completely applicable to 4e, because everything is an attack. There may be too much of an incentive to save dailies for late in the combat where they're more likely to work to their full effect.

Helwar

@kviiri If you recognize that the situation is like that, that there are no stakes and eventually the players will win, just narrate how they just end it

SPavel

@Helwar Yep that's how D&D combat shakes out

kviiri

On the other hand, without the escalation, similar bias favors using powers early so it's not going to be too bad.

hohenheim

@Slagmoth I used the tag! But it was edited away by someone.

tag

Slagmoth

14:32

Yeah, we got the reason in here somewhere. It is ok.

kviiri

@Helwar 5e combat has felt really static to me as well. Has made me contemplate switching to some zone-based model instead of 5 foot tiles/hexes.

hohenheim

@Slagmoth Oh, sorry. I replied too early and then saw 10 messages below that this way already mentioned.

Rubiksmoose

@hohenheim No reason to be sorry!

kviiri

@Helwar I think combat might get more interesting if there was a bonus for attacking a different enemy than last round or somesuch

Helwar

@kviiri I partialy just wanted to increase 1/3 of the enemies HP, just so I can safely "take" a AoO or two without the monster turning to dust even before doing anything... But that might make the combats longer too :S

hohenheim

14:39

@Rubiksmoose It seems to me that my questions often lead to long discussions in the comments. That's partly my fault, because I usually try to answer the questions and clear up any misunderstandings that occur due to my original question. And this always ends in the same way, namely that all comments get deleted.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose This is the point (in Rubik's chat comment) that has to be left open to DM discretion. How the trigger can be presented. @Slagmoth @Sdjz

kviiri

@Helwar Not sure what level you're playing on, but at least in 5e isolated opportunity attacks aren't really a big deal after the first levels.

They feel worse than they really are, I guess. Probably some deep-set instinct to avoid losses.

KorvinStarmast

@hohenheim It's OK that comments get deleted.

Helwar

@kviiri 5E

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri When a fire giant gets an opportunity attack on you, and crits, that's not a case of "worse then they really are" as I found out Monday night. :p

Rubiksmoose

14:42

@hohenheim It is good for OP to respond to requests for clarification if there are any. I do not see anywhere you did anything wrong on this question at least.

hohenheim

@Rubiksmoose Woop woop!

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast But we're talking about players opportunity attacking monsters, which is a bit of a different situation because of how damage scales for PCs.

Rubiksmoose

And yeah, comments are designed to be deleted. That is the eventual end for all*comments by design.

Helwar

@kviiri probably. Last time I made a boss, it was an epic thing (in my head), an elemental lion the size of a bus, changing damage resistance and vulnerability every time it's vulnerability was discovered, the thing could jump and leave trails of "elemental" damage and had lair actions and everything

Rubiksmoose

*One rare exception is comments linking to relevant Q&As

KorvinStarmast

14:44

@kviiri got it.

Helwar

Imagine, they "locked" me into combat for fear of them killing it too soon, and it became a piñata T_T

kviiri

@Helwar The characters that deal the most damage with their opportunity attacks tend to scale up their damage by scaling up their number of attacks, while the damage of individual attacks doesn't size up that much. While the damage output of a Fighter more than doubles over the course of levels 1 to 5 thanks to multiattack and increasing bonuses, their opportunity attack stays fairly close to what it did at L1.

@Helwar Yeouch :s

Solo monsters are... tricky to get right, in general

Helwar

@kviiri yup

Tiggerous

@Rubiksmoose @Slagmoth @Sdjz @hohenheim OK, heavy edits made to my answer. Let me know if you think it's an improvement. Hopefully it's still coherent.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast Yeaoouuuch. I went and looked how much they actually do damage. That's a lot.

Critical hits can indeed be quite critical when done by monsters, whose per-attack damage scales like that.

Sdjz

14:55

@Tiggerous It is looking great now. I like how you present what the rules say and then move on to how you'd rule it personally. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Helwar

in 3.5, a single orc had 4HP. My friends wizard had 4HP. The orc attacked him with a greataxe, crited, max damage. 72HP of damage. To a 4HP wizard. At lvl 1... Crits are bonkers xd

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