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9:02 PM
Are group checks a thing in DnD 4e, RAW?
 
@kviiri Only if you create a joint account at the credit union.
 
(group checks meaning similar to 5e, that the entire group rolls against a DC and having at least half of them succeed counts as a success for the whole group)
I'm not exactly averse to houseruling it but if someone recalls off the top of their heads whether there's some equivalent mechanism I'd like to hear about it
 
34
Q: Why is a lion not evil?

DeoroOne often hears the claim that animals who kill and such, are not in fact evil. The typical example is that of a lion or a tiger that kills a prey. The argument is more or less that the animal acts instinctively in order to survive and thus we cannot fault it for killing a prey. It must eat meat ...

Look, other stacks have alignment debates
 
@SPavel hah!
 
@kviiri Yes, they have exactly that.
Almost always against an easy DC.
 
9:11 PM
@BESW Why's this?
Because it's less likely for many characters to have the same specialities?
 
Should we be sending all alignment questions to philosophy instead of just labelling them whatever else?
 
Maybe
Although I think the whole good vs evil dualism is not really that universally accepted there. Maybe even less than here!
 
Yeah but you can do philosophy as if assumptions exist such as: "Assume good and evil have a defined absolute... blah diddy blah blah. Conclusion"
Even if those assumptions aren't necessarily shown yet
 
Philosophy is just simplified GMing.
 
@kviiri I assume so; it's already Goblin-Dicing the party, if you set a difficult DC you're basically setting them up for failure.
Broadly speaking 4e expects a party to have one person trained in each skill.
@DavidCoffron No, because D&D-style alignment doesn't map to any real-world philosophical constructs at all. That's part of the problem--people keep inserting their personal IRL philosophies into a game construct that wasn't designed with any IRL philosophy in mind.
So we get "obviously alignment is X" and "obviously alignment is Y" where X and Y are antithetical and neither actually fits the alignment mould anyway.
 
9:25 PM
Plus the words "Good" and "Evil" bring their own connotations and baggage. Which basically turns into 1/4th of the alignment axis being off-limits for PCs if you want to minimize absolute madness.
Or 1/3, I guess.
wew math
 
Right. Each of us tends to bring our own concepts of good/evil/law/chaos to the table, and alignment is vague/contradictory/infuriating enough to make it seem like that's what it wants us to do.
Then the trap springs and everyone at the table notices everyone else is doing something totally different.
 
I really liked how 4e simplified the alignment scale. They could've taken it away completely, but I think merging some of the more vague alignments together made a lot of sense.
 
The really brilliant thing 4e did with alignment was to divorce it entirely from the mechanics.
 
They should just word-swap all of the alignments with bacon/necktie/albatross/Venetians.
 
It's there if you want it, but you can ignore it COMPLETELY and the mechanics won't care, and it barely even scratches against the lore either.
 
9:30 PM
@BESW aye!
 
Meanwhile 3.5 sits there going "Not only can we quantify your goodness or evilness, each alignment axis is a universal elemental power in its own right with the capacity to sustain entire planes of existence and bestow magical powers on those who dedicate their lives to it!"
 
Trying to remember which mechanics in 5e use alignment.
I think they're mostly minor and ignorable though.
 
@Yuuki Some magic items or artifacts, I think. But DMG only ≃ minor and ignorable.
Some monster effects too, but they're few and far in between.
 
@BESW real world philosophy is only one type. There are many philosophers who work in fantasy realms or abstractions for a variety of reasons
@kviiri you are right. Only magic items that have it as a prerequisite for attunement (from a player perspective)
What monster effects? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
 
Well, many real world philosophers (and many of them really good ones) worked in China, which was effectively a fantasy realm for the Europeans of the early Middle Ages. And as a consequence, they came up with philosophies with a much lesser emphasis on Good vs Evil than their European equivalents.
 
9:38 PM
That doesn't seem relephant.
 
@DavidCoffron Night Hags can only trap evil souls
 
@kviiri but you can analyze something from a philosophical lens (premises and conclusions) without necessitating real world application or even guaranteeing the premises are relevant to the real world
@kviiri spirit guardians damage type is based on alignment
Demilich mentions something in its lair i think
 
@DavidCoffron A PC lycanthrope can only be put under GM control if their alignment changes as a result of becoming a lycanthrope
 
Oh found something: forum.rpg.net/… @Yuuki
 
So the only things you can't ignore alignment for are Spirit Guardians, Demilich, Lemures, Night Hags, Rakshasas, and Unicorns.
Everything else is a bit more wishy-washy like "won't do things against its alignment".
Or "knows your alignment", which you can probably also easily ignore.
 
9:50 PM
Hmh, I'm going to eyeball treasure amounts instead of using the ones in the DMG.
If you hear gunshots, don't be alarmed, it's just me settling a dispute with my foot.
 
@Yuuki (and magic items. Don't forget those)
(And the planar rules)
 
@DavidCoffron Last I checked – and I wasn't good at it – the planar stuff, and actually most of the DMG, seemed surprisingly setting-specific, and if I knit my own setting, alignment becomes even less relephant.
 
My face when he says Pelor is from FR... (smh)
0
Q: How deity find out, when his worshiper break some of his dogmat?

MaraderFor example, a paladin of Pelor starts beating beggars or orphans on a daily basis, threatening them so they don't talk about it to anybody. How would a deity find out his worshiper is doing something wrong?

 
Re: Evil, someone burned down that punk sauna I mentioned here earlier.
 
@Anaphory you are right. If you have different planar rules those are irrelevant
 
10:00 PM
@kviiri WHAAAAT!
Incompetence or malice?
 
@Anaphory Yeah, it's a bummer. They're already building a new one though
Malice, apparently.
 
Punk Sauna?
 
@GreySage Sompasauna sompasauna.fi/?page_id=263
In Sompasaari, Helsinki
It started out as a pretty illegal construction using repurposed construction waste on a repurposed disused pier, but over the years the city administration (who weren't actively hostile towards it at any point, really) started to rent the lot to the organization officially
 
@kviiri ...how do you have malice against a sauna?
 
@GreySage you don't you have malice against people or events involving the sauna
 
10:03 PM
@GreySage Usually it starts with alcohol or advanced stupidity. But I wouldn't 100% discount a conspiracy either
 
@kviiri Did it eat adventurers like Gazeebos do?
 
The sauna that was burned was built using bottle deposit money collected by volunteers. If this was a crime show, the episode would end with the cops figuring out the sauna was built out of sub-par materials and the guy in charge of the money just embezzled most of it and torched the sauna to not get caught.
...but since this is not, I blame alcohol and advanced lack of respect towards shared property :<
 
@Anaphory But if that's of any compensation, there's still plenty of less rad options available.
Actually, come to think of it... since Summer is coming fast, they might even get a new sauna done before June. They have an incentive to build fast.
 
@SPavel No, Bacon albatross or Bacon Venetians.
 
10:13 PM
Oh, I thought you were doing 4e alignments
In a row
Honestly if I had to cut down on alignments I'd prefer to keep Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil rather than LG and CE
The Robin Hood - Dr Doom spectrum
 
D&D Twitter, I present to you "WHY I LOVE MY MIDDLE SCHOOL GIRLS D&D CLUB" in one email:
A bit of Fate apostasy — for a side project, I’m looking at how the Create action might be expanded in scope beyond aspects. Comments turned on on this Google doc. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ByUw9J7eAOL4GGGMFWSNK5NzP2GSujblDDzaxsQ-XQ0/edit?usp=sharing
 
user15026
@BESW Every time this guy tweets about the DnD Girls I am just like YES GOOD
 
@BESW ... Grilled cheese golem?
 
10:32 PM
An African elephant being loaded onto a ship, 3rd-4th century CE. Roman mosaic from Veii, Isola Farnese, Italy. https://www.flickr.com/photos/carolemage/18643674732 Now in Badisches Landesmuseum Karlsruhe, Germany #archaeology
 
This question seems to be asking about divination magic, and feats, in D&D 5e, but the answers are focused on feats rather than Divination Magic school abilities. I don't have the time or assets to compose an answer. Anyone?
@SPavel hungry isn't an alignment. (lion not evil question) Attributing human morality and values to a creature without the higher brain functions is a non sequitur.
 
@BESW I'm especially impressed by how ancient craftsmen were able to get that spinning animation working
 
 
10:52 PM
hey there @GregFaust, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
@Shalvenay hi, thanks!
 
[wave]
 
hey as well @LarryPogue, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
[ominous lurking]
 
11:07 PM
Wish me luck. I'm gonna start DM'ing 5e again...
(I'm about to graduate so I will have time again. Yay!)
 
@DavidCoffron Grats!
 
I'm just glad school is almost over. Ugh. Having a full time job and being a full time student (in a major I don't even like anymore) is tiring
 
Incidentally, we call the fenced off area in our living room with my computer, TV, and video game consoles my lair.
 
@GreySage I want a lair...
 
11:23 PM
hey there @KorvinStarmast
 
@Shalvenay Hail. Any news on the visit with Kwayothe?
 
no, haven't gotten around to figuring that out yet with nits
 
Ok, off I go. Best wishes.
 
hey there @Duck, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
hi hows it going?
 
11:33 PM
alright here
 
It is funny I have been on RPG.SE for over a week and didn't know there were chat channels till today.
 
You have to wait for the stars to align and the sidebar to decide to show you the way.
(not really but it takes like THREE WHOLE CLICKS if you don't)
 
Well, welcome to to chat now! Feel free to lurk or chat as you like, or give chat up as hopelessly silly and focus on mainsite content.
 
11:57 PM
hi team.
 

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