TRPG General Chat

trogdor

11:01

@BESW Myth enders?

BESW

Yes.

trogdor

ok, I was not sure

BESW

Oh, oh, oh. He should play DRYH, where you can break the fabric of reality to whatever extent your creativity allows, but you have to willing to risk becoming a monster to do it.

Or he could play The Princes' Kingdom and try to figure out WHAT sort of balance that has.

trogdor

lol

that last one cracks me up

because,.... we seemed to have a lot of trouble with that game

like jeez

all I remember now is a horse related death?

did that happen?

BESW

Yes.

trogdor

11:09

ok then yeah

that game yo

BESW

And it's the same engine as that game your brother ran with Matt and us.

trogdor

yeah Dogs in the Vineyard?

I remember

nitsua60

@Helwar It's been linked here a couple of times. I hope you don't mind: I'm going to edit your message so that over in the star board it's got some context.

goodguy5

11:34

Morning, Nerds

trogdor

ah the classic

happy time of day to you computer person

BESW

11:56

goodguy5

ha

doppelgreener

@BESW oh! i recognise that cosplay! that's great!

BESW

[grin] I picked it for you.

goodguy5

and notice the belchers in the background?

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 now i do!

BESW

12:11

Welp, my brain has started reading "workshopping" as "worshipping." Time for bed.

doppelgreener

Goodnight! :)

trogdor

@BESW @doppelgreener what is it from?

doppelgreener

@trogdor It is Prince Robot IV, from Saga. He is the heir to the Robot kingdom.

trogdor

Oh of course

Why don't I know that? XD

Tiggerous

@doppelgreener Thanks, I knew I recognised him.

Helwar

13:03

@nitsua60 sorry I was out for lunch, you edited what message?

Secespitus

@Helwar You can click on the arrow on the left side of the message to see which one. It's the one where you copied the link to the newest blog article into the chat. Now there is some text that explains what the link points at.

Helwar

Oh... great. No problem! Whatever makes everything work better :)

also I was curious about these starred messages, how are they picked? whatever people stars the most? someone with admin credentials picks them?

goodguy5

it's funny you ask. there have been a lot of conversations about that

Secespitus

@Helwar Hover over a chat message and look at the right - there is a star. Next to that star is an arrow by the way that allows you to respond to a certain chat message. Makes it easier to follow a chat conversation.

Mods and room owners can pin something to the top, but other than that it depends on what is starred the most

Helwar

@goodguy5 I'm new! :)

@Secespitus cool! I was just manually writing @ and the nickname to do this

Secespitus

13:13

Though new stars will slowly push older ones out.

goodguy5

@doppelgreener would you please address helwar's question? Because I don't think I can do it without cynicism.

NautArch

@goodguy5 danger will robinson!

Secespitus

@Helwar You can do that, too, but then it simply highlights the last message from that person when hovering over the message.

doppelgreener

@Helwar We use our starboard to be effectively landmarks for people to check back in on later. They're highlights or interesting things users visiting tomorrow would appreciate having their attention drawn to; interesting events, messages which draw attention to a particular conversation, etc.

some chat rooms will use it differently; in some chat rooms a star is used as a like button, but this chat's historically decided to not use it that way.

@goodguy5 thanks for the poke.

Helwar

thanks for the info :)

doppelgreener

13:19

Messages get starred by whoever feels like starring them -- if you hover over a message you'll see a button for starring it on the right. There's also a dropdown arrow on the left, and a button for starring the message in that as well.

Helwar

the first days I kept thinkig: huh, maybe I clicked the star by accident or something...

David Coffron

@doppelgreener and eagle moments. Those are important too;)

NautArch

@DavidCoffron We didn't end up using Reverse Gravity in the water. FIght was tough against these Sea Dragon things, but we made it through without too much danger. Well, except for our Dwarf Cleric and his unicorn. THey nearly drowned. Like one round away and no one knew about it.

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron well, naturally.

David Coffron

@NautArch oh THAT was the reason for the question. Very clever

NautArch

13:22

@DavidCoffron Wanted to make sure we didn't waste it if he dropped it

I did finally get off a Polearm Master/Sentinel combo to stop the approaching sea dragon. But that mainly just forced it to focus it's attacks on me. So tank mission accomplished? Sadly, I forgot about my Vengeance Paladin thing where I could move away and do it all again. Oopsy.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Endemic to this stack system, though I am sure it was not an intentional feature

nitsua60

13:41

@Secespitus and age--stars "die off" according to the $ALGORITHM.

KorvinStarmast

13:54

@NautArch Sounds like a fun session.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast It was a ton of fun. Every round we had to make Athletics checks to see if we stayed upright on the ship, and the ship made a capsize check. We made it pretty far before the ship capsized, but most of us went prone each round.

And during that we were fighting off those lightning sea dragon things (not sure what book they were from.)

then once in the water post-capsize, our sorcerer dimension doored to land with one of our clerics. The barbarian and I with swim/water breathing swam - but each round in the water we also had to make athletics checks to fight the storm and be able to move forward.

Yuuki

> They get an answer… but the answerer gets scolded for “encouraging ‘low-quality’ questions.”

KorvinStarmast

I threw in a reopen vote for this question but it may still need some work.

Yuuki

This bothers me a lot because I personally think questions and answers should be evaluated independently.

nitsua60

@Yuuki I agree. Plenty of times I've DVed Q and upvoted A.

goodguy5

13:59

how is that not a charop question?

Unless you're suggesting "Can a wizard be made to be effective that does not deal direct damage?"

Yuuki

@goodguy5 To which the answer is "wizards are more effective when you don't focus on blasting".

NautArch

@Yuuki unless you're an Evoker?

@goodguy5 It's got good constraints.

goodguy5

okies

NautArch

...and about to start a few hours of meetings...wheeeeeee

Yuuki

@NautArch You're still probably best suited for battlefield control. I think some good ones are evocation spells.

The Oracle

14:09

2

Q: Should I delete an answer I posted too soon before knowing the question was a duplicate?

I ninja-answered the question Can one still deal Non-Lethal Damage if they trigger the Automatic Kill feature? with an answer right before it got closed due to being a duplicate, because I didn't check the close votes before hitting submit on my answer. In fact, I'm one of the people who voted fo...

Helwar

@goodguy5 Is that question really that wrong? Yeah he asks how to be overpowered, but given the constraints he gives the answer can be perfectly objective. There is room for variance and I can see multiple answers being good enough to be "the answer" but is it really "too broad" ? :S

Yuuki

"Too broad" is basically a judgement call.

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 I think it is a charop question.

@Helwar Are we talking about the same question as I linked to?

Yuuki

Actually, I think "too broad" is often confused with "opinion-based".

KorvinStarmast

> also, that question had to be edited to get out of too broad, and mxy had a point on the linked guides ...

Helwar

14:21

@KorvinStarmast I think so, the one about the non damaging wizard optimization?

KorvinStarmast

/@Helwar Yeah. It poses quite a trick of "here are my criteria, how can I make this work" and I think that fits our "what problem are you trying to solve" well enough.

Helwar

please note that I was not arguing the conclusion, just trying to understand it. As I said plenty of times, I'm new and don't know the ropes to well so learning is a priority :)

KorvinStarmast

@Helwar I don't see him asking to be overpowered. Hence my confusion.

Helwar

@KorvinStarmast true, I read the question with several interruptions in the middle so I might have got that wrong. The point is almost the same though, he wants to optimize the character (and usually in my table that means becoming as OP as possible :) )

KorvinStarmast

OP and optimized aren't the same thing in 5e. In other editions, it could be.

Yuuki

14:27

@Helwar The best way to become OP is to sit on the other side of the DM screen.

goodguy5

^

Yuuki

Can't have your cheese rule zero'd if you're the DM.

Helwar

I know, still it wasn't the point of what I was saying :)

Tiggerous

14:42

'The how to teach mey wolf to wield a shortsword question' reappeared - did someone undelete it?

KorvinStarmast

@Tiggerous huzzah

goodguy5

I don't think it was ever deleted

Tiggerous

Maybe I just lost sight of it. Part of me can't believe that no one has favourited it.

goodguy5

done

goodguy5

15:05

omg! it WAS based off of Sif

NautArch

15:18

@goodguy5 sif?

goodguy5

Sif, the great grey wolf

NautArch

@goodguy5 ah, that guy.

David Coffron

So I've been working on homebrew rules/a new system for making split party more bearable in D&D. Specifically, I want to make the system more friendly to DMPCs so that a player in the split party (if it's expected to be a long term split) could take on the role of DM and effectively have two concurrent tables. Are there any systems that have DMPC friendly mechanics I can model after (or possibly switch to)?

Side note: any way to make this stackable? Seems either shopping or opinion based to me...

goodguy5

ooh. I just had an idea for it

the stackable question is something like:

"How can I handle splitting the party (in a way that doesn't suck)?"

My brand new untested idea:

1. a timer. let's say 3 minutes.
2. have the inactive party co-dm

(so, PCDMs instead of DMPCs)

Yuuki

If you're talking about running a multi-DM table (even if it's only temporarily multi-DM in the long-term), I don't think there's any system that explicitly handles it other than "talk it out".

The Oracle

15:35

0

Q: Should I bring up interpersonal speculation in an answer?

I just answered this question about a player feeling left out in a gaming group. It came to light after I posted that the DM is his teacher, rather than a peer. It seems plausible to me that the DM might be intentionally favoring certain players because they're "problem kids" at school. This cl...

discussion

KorvinStarmast

I popped the picture into the question, to show the inspiration, but if I got the fair use thing wrong, or the attribution wrong, someone please advise.

@doppelgreener Hoping I did not goof up the fair use thing with this image. If I did, pls advise.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I've worked with timers in the past and they always feel... wrong. Even if you find the right balance (for us it was 4 minutes), it always seemed to come up at the wrong times (like in the middle of an exciting bit. I found myself playing on for 30-90 seconds a lot of times anyway, seemed better to just switch sub-parties when it felt right and it went well. The issue is, if they are going to be split for half a session up to multiple sessions that can get tedious, hence my question.

goodguy5

oooooooooooooooooh

I meant, half a session still works, but multiple hrm....

David Coffron

My players just brought to me a "we feel limited by the system since we dont want to make plans that will split the party long trrm even if it makes sense and is a cool/fun/good strategy

Yuuki

imo, one of the problems with handling split parties is that nobody wants to do a separate session but that also means that the split parties know exactly what the other party is doing.

David Coffron

15:47

[I almost hit the rep cap with answers that are days or even weeks old... nice]

@Yuuki my group is very good at separating out what their characters know. Our issue is the narrative breaks

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron Whenever a player starts talking about their motivations and thoughts, I consider taking out my phone.

And that's how I try to separate character knowledge from player knowledge.

KorvinStarmast

I hope they don't build a town called Tristram here ... looks like the hole behind Pepin's house ....

NautArch

@Yuuki heh, i do the same thing. Now's the time to legitimately not pay attention!

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast absolutely fine

Yuuki

16:03

@doppelgreener such sword

doppelgreener

much slay

many hards

David Coffron

wow

NautArch

needs moar corgi

David Coffron

Can I make a Lycanthrope character that only talks like doge. How fast would that get annoying

doppelgreener

doge is not a very conversational dialect so you would have some trouble

David Coffron

16:06

NPC obviously or id drive myself insane

doppelgreener

but if you always misuse qualitative/quantitative words like such/many/much/so etc, that would be great. :D

Yuuki

In the style of Bane, it would never get annoying (for you).

David Coffron

Very dragon. Much hurt. Such sword. Much fight. Many backup

How doge asks for help killing the dragon plaguing the village

doppelgreener

that sounds great

Anaphory

@DavidCoffron Wow!

Sir Cinnamon

16:27

Anyone here have a few minutes to take a peek at a project I've been working on? I'd love some constructive criticisms and/or ideas

NautArch

@SirCinnamon I've got opinions :) Is it a 5e thing?

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch Sort of but not necessarily! Can we move to another room?

NautArch

@SirCinnamon Back room?

Sir Cinnamon

Sure

The Oracle

17:00

1

Q: What to do about comment misuse?

In the recent community checkin post How is the community doing? [2018], the two most highly voted complaints (at the time of this writing) are about comment misuse - namely: Answering in comments (mostly on questions) Arguing in comments (mostly on answers) We have existing guidance on comme...

discussion comments

goodguy5

17:37

Do I remember somewhere about being able to use off time during adventuring days as half-downtime days?

David Coffron

@goodguy5 in 5e?

goodguy5

yea

David Coffron

Kind of. You need 8 hours a day to benefit, so if you have that much free time you get a full day:

"Periods of downtime can vary in duration, but each downtime activity requires a certain number of days to complete before you gain any benefit, and at least 8 hours of each day must be spent on the downtime activity for the day to count."

goodguy5

I thought there was some way to get half-days

Yuuki

17:56

@goodguy5 You need to provide 24 hours advance notice to your direct supervisor.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 not as far as I know. You might get half-weeks from XGtE's variant rules. I'm AFB so idk

Yuuki

Also, be aware that these days will be counted against your paid time off unless you elect to not receive pay.

Half-days exceeding your allotted PTO will result in disciplinary action.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I think the summary of your Lay On Hands questions are that the paladin says they're using X amount, and then X amount are used. Effects to be taken/removed after.

David Coffron

18:11

@NautArch correct. That's how I think the feature works

The multiple disease question has another facet on determining which disease as well

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I'd put together an answer on the multiple, but I don't think there are rules for that.

For that one, does the player/character know they're under multiple diseases/poisons?

I went to Dispel Magic for guidance at first, but that lets you target a creature and not just an effect. so that went nowhere :)

Yuuki

Yeah, that brings up the question of how does a player choose a disease/poison to cure when they're under multiple either knowingly or unknowingly.

NautArch

@Yuuki bingo bango bongo

Either the player/paladin know there's something (or somethings) to cure, or they don't.

I was just in the middle of typing that answer ;)

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron I remember a failure in a game about a year ago, where my monk missed on a medicine check and our barbarian stayed sick since we didn't realize that he was diseased. :P Took the paladin the next day to figure it out.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast When in doubt, i'll drop the 5 HP to test :)

but I'm also 16th level with a lot of lay on hands to burn.

Yuuki

18:21

@NautArch What if they know they've been injected with rattlesnake venom but don't know that they have West Nile?

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Medicine check to diagnose disease.

NautArch

@Yuuki Then the paladin cures the poison. and that's it.

if they don't know they have a disease, they don't know to cure it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I hope you liked my answer, I had to dig back to failure for part of it. :(

Yuuki

Also, what if they know they've been poisoned but they don't know with what?

goodguy5

at the end of every day, paladins should just go around blowing uses of lay on hands for shiggles

"did you sneeze today? lay on hands"
"achy? lay on hands"
"forget where you put your cart keys? Lay on hands"

Yuuki

18:28

Can Lay on Hands perform gene therapy?

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 There are a couple of guys I play with who, if you put up with that at the table, would spend most of their downtime trying to cure breast cancer. :p (We tend to have a few drinks when we play, and the urge to get puerile is strong in those two ... heck, they are as old as I am ... but as with last night, sometimes I just go AFK (we are on roll20) when the silly starts)

Mike Q

@KorvinStarmast I dunno, I think a desire to cure _____ is a decent motive for a healer or potion focused character

My former heal-smash-tank character was a surgeon who believed the god of warfare commanded him to fight against disease

goodguy5

"cure cancer" is not the same as "remove cancer from one person at a time"

in D&D there is already a cure for cancer. it's called "Magic".

David Coffron

@KorvinStarmast sometimes I go afk irl (glaze over and twiddle my thumbs or go grab a slice of pizza) in those situations. (Although most of the time im the purveyor of silly)

goodguy5

All you need is a battalion of 1st level Paladins or higher. opening a clinic

Yuuki

18:39

Doesn't the Dueling fighting style technically work for two-handed weapons?

I mean, you are holding a melee weapon in one hand and you're not wielding any other weapons.

David Coffron

Idk if all cancers would count as disease but it is definitely less of a problem with magic and divine power

Yuuki

You just happen to also be holding the same weapon in your other hand.

David Coffron

@Yuuki until you attack which is the only time the damage is relevant

Oh... That's what you meant....

I don't think that's what it means by 'in one hand' :P

Yuuki

I just need to be technically correct.

David Coffron

@Yuuki You would be if 5e was read in technical language but it's read in plain English so 'in one hand means 'in one hand and one hand only.' The plain English version of your reading is 'in at least one hand'

goodguy5

18:46

wielding a weapon in one hand is a binary statement.

as is wielding a weapon in two hands.

and these statements are mutually exclusive.

David Coffron

Not binary. Ternary: 0-2 hands

Yuuki

If you're piloting a giant robot, does it count if the mecha is wielding a one-handed sword?

Mike Q

@Yuuki No, because you're wielding a robot in 2 hands

Maximillian

Schrodingers broadsword. It is both wielded and sheathed until observed.

Or until your GM glares at you and asks you to get on with your turn.

Yuuki

If you're a tabaxi, don't you technically have four feet since you're a cat?

And if you're a kenku, don't you have talons instead of hands?

Maximillian

18:53

<sarcasm> I'm going to wield two goblins both of which are using two weapons! This can't possibly fail!

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron well, "handedness" is ternary, but each option is a binary trigger. It either is or isn't.

David Coffron

19:10

@goodguy5 but it is a good idea to simplify it (when coding at least) to a selective system since they are mutually exclusive. Saves bits

0-2 is better than 3 0-1s space-wise

Sir Cinnamon

@DavidCoffron 2 bits no? left hand y/n, right hand y/n?

goodguy5

well, then you have to map that to an xor statement

Mike Q

Or use a single qubit

David Coffron

@SirCinnamon valid. Both ways are the same space with that method

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I really wanted to do a faith healing thing, but was worried about not Being Nice

OUt of curiosity, do folks' tables here allow players to discuss HP values with regard to healing needs?

David Coffron

19:14

@NautArch making a reference to the effect of the placebo effect (and the lack of effectiveness in some situations) shouldn't violate Be nice

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Bah, 'tis fine. Went with George Michael instead.

But, Lay on Hands is nearly a faith healing reference anyway

Mike Q

@NautArch I know a GM who dislikes it. When I GM I don't really care.

goodguy5

Same ^

NautArch

@MikeQ it's never even come up as a potential issue with my group.

David Coffron

@NautArch My rule is they can as long as they discuss it in character too. (U can't do it if your unconscious for example but saying "I'm just a bit scratched" can mean "I've got 6 missing hitpoints" out of game.

goodguy5

19:16

My favorite is
"Grushznak! On a scale from one to 54, how well do you feel?"

3

NautArch

I don't think we ever considered it to be a problem.

@goodguy5 That's the way to do it.

goodguy5

;)

But an idea that I just had.....

Get some red poker chips or the like.

Dole out 4,5, or 10 to each player to put in a stack in front of them.

Then remove a fractional number of chips when they take damage.

You have 50% of your health left? you should be missing 50% of your chips.

Alternatively, two stacks, one black one red.

Black is Max HP in tens, Red is damage in tens.

Mike Q

I'm in a game with a very strict GM, and they disallow characters to discuss HP quantitatively (even though they can discuss other things quantitatively, like spell slots, caster level, bonuses, etc.). If a character wants to assess the remaining hitpoints of another, he requires a Heal check to get a reading. I strongly dislike this, because the Heal check is always easy and it's just wasting time.

NautArch

@MikeQ Ugh, that's annoying.

Although now that I think about it, last night's healing was done without discussion of exact needs. 3/5 were hurt pretty bad, so one cleric set up beacon of hope while him and the other cleric each did some mass cure wounds. I still had to backfill my HP with lay on hands, but I know what I needed :)

Mike Q

@NautArch Yes. He and I have fundamentally different GM styles, which has been a bit of a culture shock (I think that's the right term?) for mutual players.

goodguy5

19:21

that just results in players devising a system out of character to talk in character

"Minor injuries = still at 75% or better
Medium Injuries = 50-75%
Major Injuries = 25-50%
Critical Injuries are less than 25%"

@MikeQ culture shock works

Mike Q

@goodguy5 Yes, and that means even more on-the-fly math at the table, which is already a headache because we're playing Pathfinder

goodguy5

anyway. early dismissal today

so, I'm going home... but I REALLY like this chips idea

NautArch

@goodguy5 or just let them say numbers rather than doing an abstraction for the sake of abstraction

goodguy5

@NautArch oh, I do let them do numbers. this would actually be so that they don't HAVE to ask.

Everyone can just see everyone's HP bar

NautArch

@goodguy5 ahh, gotcha.

Mike Q

19:32

@goodguy5 My policy is to encourage players to RP this stuff, but they can discuss numbers if/when it's more practical.

Maximillian

"Hey fighter, how you doing?" "Well on a scale of 1 to 46, i'm about a 20."

David Coffron

@Maximillian only to find out he only has 10/23 HP and gets one shot by the enemy archer...

Sir Cinnamon

@DavidCoffron Simplify your fractions you fool!

shouts the wizard

David Coffron

19:47

@SirCinnamon "old fool?" "Gandalf!" [idk why but you made me remember that]

Speaking of. One of the coolest setpieces I ever built for a campaign was a battle of the five armies inspired combat. Super fun to work out (the party were okay with long drawn out fights including many NPCs, they got to control some, we took turns; took almost 9 hours to finish the battle, best Saturday in a while)

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron Someday, a good "mass combat" tool set will arrive for 5e. But I'm not holding my breath. The UA was at least a start ...

Yuuki

20:06

The name "Battle of Five Armies" always confused me because the battle never consisted of more than two opposing forces. And even if you consider the independent groups as the "armies", I don't think Thorin's company of thirteen dwarves counts as an army.

It was The Battle of Four Armies And Some Recently But No Longer Homeless Dwarves at best.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Are you forgetting Thorin's cousins from the Iron Hills?

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast Are we really counting the elves and Laketown as separate armies?

KorvinStarmast

Yes, because Tolkien did.

Yuuki

Actually, what are the canonical "Five Armies"?

KorvinStarmast

eagles, orcs, dwarves, elves, humans

Yuuki

20:10

Really, eagles? How eagles were there?

KorvinStarmast

Did you read the Hobbit?

Yuuki

I did, but a long time ago.

KorvinStarmast

The eagles showed up as the battle was going badly, and get after the orcs and wargs a bit ...

Yuuki

Yes, but how many eagles?

Anaphory

(Yay, eagles!)

KorvinStarmast

20:11

A Tolkien version of "The Cavalry arrived just in time" ... enough to matter.

IIRC from the text of the book, Bilbo sees them coming as he's about to pass out/go under from being knocked on the head.

@Yuuki Correction. The five warring parties were the Goblins and the Wargs against Men, Elves and Dwarves on and near the Lonely Mountain.

Yuuki

Why are the Wargs a separate army? Are they basically just the Goblins' cavalry division?

KorvinStarmast

But I may have been originally correct. As the battle was turning fully against the Free Folk, a large army of Giant Eagles of the Misty Mountains arrived, led by the Great Eagle. Bilbo was the first to spot their entrance on the scene and began shouting that "the Eagles are coming!", a shout that was then continued among the other troops of the Free Folk. At this point Bilbo was knocked in the head by a large stone thrown by a Goblin from above on the Mountain, and he was knocked out

doppelgreener

the five warring parties are the five different camps of fans arguing what the five armies were exactly.

8)

KorvinStarmast

1977: The Hobbit (1977 film): The "Five Armies" are the Elves, the Men, the Dwarves, the Goblins (and Wargs) and the Eagles curiouser and curioser said Alice.

David Coffron

@doppelgreener 6 camps of fans . I say Gandalf was an army in himself and the eagles don't count as an army

KorvinStarmast

20:24

I think my brain juxtaposed the 1977 hobbit movie (animated) with the book.

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron you're right, gandalf is a one-man army

David Coffron

(Not really. I was just being contrary)

Gandalf is kind of a push over tbh. I don't know what the hype was all about. Sure he beat one demon and came back to life but Jesus did that and so much more :P

NautArch

I just read the Gollum chapter with my son. He's pretty hooked on the Hobbit right now.

KorvinStarmast

The riddle game is good fun with kids when reading that aloud.

@doppelgreener Oh, yeah, your depiction of fan armies is spot on.

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron Gandalf had to die to kill a balrog. Jesus just slapped a thousand demons out of some dude into a herd of pigs and went on with his day.

doppelgreener

20:26

@KorvinStarmast \o/

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, we talked about why the answer was the answer.

and let him try and figure one of them out. Problem is, reading at bedtime and his little brain is tired and trying to help him fall asleep and not energize him :)

KorvinStarmast

And then there were all of the ladies in our office who swooned over Legolas .. no, over Aragorn .. no, over Legolas! .... (arrgh)

When the FoTR movie came out, I discovered a whole bevy of LoTR fans in our office. It was kinda neat.

David Coffron

I think the best fan theory of LoTR is that Gandalf isn't a wizard at all. Just a warrior with a magic staff (most of the spells he cast are mediocre when compared to the other stuff we see and he spent a lot of the time fighting with weapons instead of spells)

KorvinStarmast

Cassandra Claire had, on her blog back in those days, a silly send up / parody / slashy series of "most secret diaries" of the main characters. Aragorn's starts with "still not king ..."

If you have not read the very Secret Diaries, then enjoy some silly fun

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron To be fair, "Wizard" in LotR doesn't mean "person who uses magic" so much as it means "specific group of quasi-angels that were sent to Middle-Earth".

KorvinStarmast

20:31

@Yuuki The istari ...

David Coffron

@Yuuki valid was still a fun read (uproxx.com/movies/was-gandalf-really-a-wizard)

Yuuki

It's kinda like how the Three Magi couldn't do magic or otherwise they'd teleport instead of riding camels.

KorvinStarmast

Different kind of magi ...

David Coffron

@Yuuki magi originally meant priest in Persia(Zoroastrianism). Sorcerer came later

Yuuki

And "wizard" originally meant "wise man", I think.

KorvinStarmast

20:42

Yeah, and the priests had to prepare spells in Vancian Farsi! 8^D

David Coffron

I prefer the Modified Adjusted Gross Income definition of magi

Makes the Easter story a lot more confusing

I still think it's hilarious that the leader of the magi was called the rab-mag

Sounds like some knock off flashlight

BESW

20:57

And the Elder Edda passage Tolkien yoinked all his dwarves' names and Gandalf, described Gandalf as a half-elf.

But elf and dwarf were terms for magic-users.

Roughly speaking they were both inhuman non-gods made distinct by whether they used making-things magic (dwarves) or knowing-things magic (elves).

KorvinStarmast

21:39

@BESW also gnomes ... but I think that is from a different poetic cycle ....

BESW

Yeah, the meanings shift a lot over time.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast I wish I had a poetic cycle. All mine does is seize the gears every five minutes or so.

David Coffron

@BESW Like how fizzle now means a failed spell, but it used to mean a quiet fart?

BESW

Not exactly, but sure.

David Coffron

(Or not at all like that, and I have been waiting years for that piece of trivia and decided now was the time.....)

Oh you beat me to it

I think it'd be cool if you could use rep lost to rep cap for bounties (or something); Might lead to rep inflation, but would still be interesting

@BizarreCake Salutations

BESW

21:52

Some linguistic shifts are simple, like "fizzle" being used as a metaphor for any kind of disappointing failure, and then losing its original meaning.

But others are tied to culture or epistemological shifts, like dwarf, elf, and gnome changing meanings as the culture's faith changed its understanding of divine reality.

KorvinStarmast

22:54

@BESW David Anthony's book The Horse, the Wheel, and Language explores some of that shifting in language ... very interesting stuff. However, it's not for the feint of heart. Part of his purpose in writing is to deal with a bunch of competing ideas from experts in a number of fields, only one of which was linguistics.

The others are anthropology and archaeology. Still, I think it's a good read.

And I had to do a lot of rereading to try and get some of the harder bits in areas well outside my wheel house

BESW

I'll put it on my GoodReads TBR, but my focus is more on indigenous Pasifika than Indo-European.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW Well, he's up front about it. That's his whole line of inquiry: the fusion of cultural and linguistic in the proto-indoeuropean language family.

BESW

Yes, hence my statement.

It looks like he's selling a sensational story as much as a defensible theory, and that makes me wish somebody would write a more accessible version of Narrative and Freedom.

@NautArch For some reason your icon keeps reminding me of the Murderbot Diaries.

Shalvenay

23:32

hey there @MikeQ

Mike Q

@Shalvenay Hey, I'm finishing up at work now, I can get back on chat in like 20 mins

NautArch

@BESW ha! Had to look it up, but very similar contrasts.

BESW

It's great.

I recommend it highly, and am eagerly awaiting the next books.

user15026

The second one is soonish, I think?

BESW

Yes!

NautArch

23:45

Argh, I'm already 5 unfinished series deep ( two actually are finished, but waiting on library)

BESW

Book 2, Artificial Condition, comes out next month.

Then Rogue Protocol in August and Exit Strategy in October.

trogdor

@BESW oh yeah, the cover art XD

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