TRPG General Chat

7:00 PM

So, My players are about to receive a large bounty

There is a capital city nearby

But I've long since planned for the city to have a unique race

I also thought it would make sense for the race to use a special currency, with a small fee for changing.

What would be a good fantasy currency for a race of basically domesticated humanoid otyugs?

kviiri

Ooh, like one where the contestants are chased by angry bulls?

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Like... garbage eater people?

goodguy5

@SirCinnamon only in appearance

I was more saying "triplopod abominations"

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 What kind of hands do they have

goodguy5

suctiony (but not slimy) tentacles

kviiri

7:04 PM

If they share the diet of the normal Otyug, I'd say the same as humans: precious metals and jewels. They are rare enough, don't spoil and aren't consumed in large amounts by non-currency use.

goodguy5

I was thinking more something that is minted specifically in and for this metropolis

kviiri

Oh, I was thinking in broader terms. So your question is not as much "what in lieu of coins" but "what kind of coins"?

goodguy5

yea

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 What about thin rings of metal, that they carry as bracelets

SPavel

@KorvinStarmast In New York, the pre-calc amounts are 18, 20, 22, but I've started seeing 20, 25, 30

goodguy5

7:06 PM

I mean... they don't have to be literal "coins", but something that has little intrinsic value elsewhere

@SirCinnamon I like that idea a lot

SPavel

Which is absurd, pouring me water occasionally and telling me the specials for the day is not a 30% value-add

kviiri

Yeah, rings would make sense. They're simple to manipulate without actual fingers.

SPavel

@goodguy5 How large is the community? A small tight-knit community can keep a formal or informal ledger of money, and has no need to physically carry its valuables

goodguy5

But that still gives me the issue of what they're made of.

kviiri

@goodguy5 How about rings with a few little holes stamped around the rim? So when they're lying on a table, one can grip them easily by sliding a tentacle in one of the holes.

goodguy5

7:08 PM

@SPavel sprawling

kviiri

Of course the feasibility of those depends on how large these coins can be (and the size of the tentacles)

SPavel

@goodguy5 Hm then you will need real bucks, or letters of credit

goodguy5

@kviiri a fine touch, but immaterial. For all intents and purposes, they are as dexterous as you or I.

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Leather bands, stiffened in hot oil, stamped with a seal

goodguy5

@SPavel exactly.

SPavel

7:09 PM

Stone tablets etched with a verifiable reference number should work

kviiri

@goodguy5 Okey dokie

goodguy5

@SirCinnamon mmmmm... yea. I like that.

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Plot twist, the leather is human skin

goodguy5

@SirCinnamon no no. no no. but funny

I mean. some of it might be

but not as a rule

Sir Cinnamon

Yeah I was just kidding I have no idea how this monster city works

Rubiksmoose

7:11 PM

@SirCinnamon the odd statements to come into this on lol

Sir Cinnamon

stiff but slightly flexible leather bands, stamped with a die much like coins are

@Rubiksmoose ...And thats how me and King William saved Christmas!

goodguy5

There is an example I'm thinking of, but I can't place my finger on it.

Basically an arcade, but on a metropolitan scale.

You bring in your money. change it for their money at a small cost
do stuff.
But you can change your tokens back for money when you leave

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 I like that you call it an arcade and not a casino

goodguy5

I actually typed casino at first, but changed it lol

GreySage

@goodguy5 That sounds like a pretty standard currency exchange

goodguy5

7:14 PM

@GreySage indeed it is.

I just wanted some brain storming on the currency

Sir Cinnamon

it makes sense that a society with little access to rare metals wouldnt standardize a currency around them

Easier to use it all on jewelry and fine goods and use leather scraps to produce currency

It needs a catchy name though, they cant say coins

SPavel

Seems like they would want to be resilient to foreign raw materials, so stamped/crafted objects would be better than bulk silver or gold

Maybe ivory?

Sir Cinnamon

Bands? Strips? Straps? Belts?

SPavel

Carved ivory reliefs of leaders

goodguy5

I mean, I'm partial to the word "rings" and the sonic memories it summons

SPavel

7:16 PM

Keeps the craftsmen class employed

kviiri

Currency needs to be hard to make, though. Fiat money works only if forgery is hard.

SPavel

Maybe the currency is shaped as chain links, and your 'wallet" is worn around your neck

Or tentacles

kviiri

@SPavel This better be a set-up for a bitcoin joke.

SPavel

@kviiri you ruined it

goodguy5

@kviiri I was considering that. I'm thinking some sort of MacGuffin material wrapped into the leather

kviiri

7:18 PM

Money based on precious substances is easier because one can't easily counterfeit gold.

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 I mean the stamp on the leather is as hard to forge as a coin die would be

its the same process really

goodguy5

Like, "You receive 10 of these bands. You notice a mysterious green wire running the length of the leather circle."

Sir Cinnamon

Equivalent of an intricate signet ring really

kviiri

@SirCinnamon But historically, coins were not valued for the stamp but for the metal. (most of the time...)

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Right, but this an inherently local currency not meant to be valued elsewhere right? so it has to be some kind of banknote equivalent

kviiri

7:20 PM

Sometimes rulers (eg. Philippe le Bel) would issue devalued coinage that was ostensibly the same value as the earlier coinage while having less precious metals in them. They were often valued less elsewhere.

Sir Cinnamon

Unless these guys have a resource no one else wants but they do

kviiri

@SirCinnamon Okay, if we want to keep it strictly local, precious metals aren't really an option.

Sir Cinnamon

Well I dont really know the requirements I suppose

kviiri

@SirCinnamon That could be a problem if the city was readily accessible from outside, because the market would correct that

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Yeah, the cost of transport would have to exceed the difference in supply/demand

kviiri

7:24 PM

This reminds me of a limited magic fantasy world I once conceived

Magic works and is totally real, but can only be used to forge magical contracts. A bit like Blockchain.

@SPavel (there, I made the Bitcoin joke)

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Magecoin is a scam, its just a Planar Bubble waiting to burst

kviiri

In this verse, it would be rather simple for a government to issue currency in the form of magical contracts between the central bank and the holder of the contract. Forgery would be impossible because no one else can magic-sign a contract for the government.

Sir Cinnamon

I hope they use SHA2

goodguy5

manganate wire. done and done

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Why manganate?

goodguy5

7:33 PM

it's green

not super useful to a medieval society for any other reason

so, little reason, or access to forge it

you need to have an alchemist to even make the stuff.

Then it gets put into the bands and officially stamped.

Though, I don't expect these players to be the "LET'S FORGE THEIR MONEY!" type of players.

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Maybe my chem is rusty but what specific chemical compound would this be

kviiri

Hmm

A special compound that only a particular alchemist or a guild/union knows how to make is a good idea!

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Especially if it has an easily verified chemical reaction with some other compound

Public verification of trust ;)

kviiri

I'd not pick any particular IRL compound though, I'd just settle with some fantasy stuff that has some really noticeable property.

Eg. an unusual color

Sir Cinnamon

Thats likely easier

goodguy5

7:39 PM

Manganate

In inorganic nomenclature, a manganate is any negatively charged molecular entity with manganese as the central atom. However, the name is usually used to refer to the tetraoxidomanganate(2−) anion, MnO2−4, also known as manganate(VI) because it contains manganese in the +6 oxidation state. Manganates are the only known manganese(VI) compounds. == Manganate(VI) == The manganate(VI) ion is tetrahedral, similar to sulfate or chromate: indeed, manganates are often isostructural with sulfates and chromates, a fact first noted by Mitscherlich in 1831. The manganese–oxygen distance is 165.9 pm, about...

kviiri

or that smells of roses in the sunlight

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 They make metal out of that?

goodguy5

I mean.... in D&D world, sure

manganese IS a metal, right?

Mike Q

No, animenese is a metal

goodguy5

ha

@SirCinnamon manganese chips

Sir Cinnamon

7:42 PM

@goodguy5 Right, so manganese wire then?

goodguy5

yep

Mike Q

animenese chips

goodguy5

I also realized that I could just cause the bands to cost more to make than they're worth

kviiri

@goodguy5 Like US pennies, famously

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Provided they are sufficiently processed that their raw materials are irrecoverable

Or not worthwhile to retrieve

goodguy5

7:49 PM

well, I meant more like alchemical silver weapons in 5e. It's what.... 100GP?
But that's not because it has 1000 silver coins worth of metal.
It's because it's hard to do it.

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 I suppose if the cost is in the alchemy of the wire

goodguy5

yes

in this case, that's a large part of it.

Sir Cinnamon

and that wire has no practical use otherwise

goodguy5

but I didn't need to think of a special metal to do it.

Sir Cinnamon

I.E. you wouldnt want someone to take apart the currency for the parts because it is worth less than its own parts

goodguy5

7:52 PM

yes, I understand

Sir Cinnamon

I still think a stamp is sufficient

goodguy5

likely

I will likely just do copper wire.

Mike Q

Why not use magic bitcoin

goodguy5

I mean... I basically am

Mike Q

That's actually a semi-serious suggestion, unlike most of my other comments here

Sir Cinnamon

7:56 PM

We've already put more thought into this than the players likely will. Not that these worldbuilding exercises arent fun

goodguy5

I mean, what else were you doing at work?

Mike Q

All of the wizards are spending time in their towers, solving magical runes and arcane formulae, and that somehow produces economic value, because magic.

Call it "Runecoin" or "Arcoin" or something along those lines

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 Hey now, I ... yeah you got me

goodguy5

;)

Sir Cinnamon

@MikeQ I like that Magecoin is close to Dogecoin

SPavel

7:59 PM

@kviiri Isn't that just Madoka?

@goodguy5 2nd worst snack

kviiri

@SPavel I don't get the reference

Mike Q

@SirCinnamon I'm going to adapt this into my own campaign universes

SPavel

@kviiri Madoka Magica

kviiri

@SPavel Oh, it's one of those manga cartoons

SPavel

yes

It's a deconstruction of the magical girl genre

Sir Cinnamon

8:00 PM

@MikeQ I like the idea of wizards employed as Magecoin Miners. "Okay honey off to another day at the ol' mine" - cut to 100 wizards in cubicles waving their arms

Mike Q

@kviiri It's a story about happy magical girls and everything is fun and happy and nothing bad happens

goodguy5

bai bai
time to go home

SPavel

@MikeQ I think that's actually true, retroactively?

kviiri

Most of my DnD NPC wizards don't do any actual magic at all. They do stuff that actual "wizards" and wizard-likes did

David Coffron

If you want arcane bitcoin, a variation of the alarm spell would do nicely. Forgeries would be tuned to a specific arcanist who minted them (just put littler windows on them that can only be opened by a magic item that the people who check for forgeries have). If the Arcanist that minted them (maybe signs them like we have mint abbreviations in the US) doesnt hear the alarm, its a forgery

@goodguy5

kviiri

8:01 PM

Look at stars, study sator squares and numbers, and try to distill gold from urine.

goodguy5

btw, my non-answer for that "large scale battle" question is "don't do that with 5e. it's not built for it.

Instead, make the environment a large scale battle. The PCs are fighting whatever you want individually, but around them there's fire and blood and steel"

but that's just me

Mike Q

@goodguy5 That's a pretty common recommendation

GreySage

@MikeQ I watched that on netflix at random once. I thought "This will be something mindless while I do laundry/play games" Little did I know I was in for one of the darkest things I have ever seen.

Mike Q

@GreySage Dark? Pffft. No need to... lose your head. :)

goodguy5

@MikeQ I've generally come to understand not to try forcing a square peg into a round hole

kviiri

8:05 PM

@goodguy5 Agreed. Although there are UA rules for it. I wouldn't recommend them, in part out of skepticism but more because I have zero experience of them

@goodguy5 Wise words

goodguy5

anyway. out

kviiri

See ya

goodguy5

grumble grumble....

I closed my laptop. put it in my bag

then my boss asked me to do something

kviiri

"goodguy5! You must return to chat immediately"

Mike Q

@goodguy5 How dare they ask you to do work while you're at work!

GreySage

8:10 PM

@kviiri "The Chatizens need you!"

goodguy5

@MikeQ more like asking me to do work after I get ready to leave work

kviiri

re: uncommon currencies, I once asked my players what would my Apocalypse World use for currency. They chose needles.

goodguy5

and my stupid laptop didn't sync to my keyboard and mouse, so I have to use the trackpad

@kviiri that's terrifying lol

what does one's needle "wallet "look like?

kviiri

@goodguy5 A pincushion, for small amounts, and for larger ones, a belt-like strap of cloth or leather.

It's probably the least convenient currency I think we could've come up with. However, it does have the advantage of not being easy to forge en masse in the post-apocalyptic hellscape. Anyone can tell a home-made needle from those fancy pre-apocalyptic ones.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Woof, and i think it's even less than that. Mass Suggestion doesn't give the Charmed condition.

Rubiksmoose

8:16 PM

@NautArch oh shoot you are absolutely right! how did I miss that?

David Coffron

@kviiri don't use them. As a player in a group that used them (to exoeriment), they don't do enough to make the fights feel epic or provide opportunities for the PCs to feel like they make a difference (even though realistically they shouldn't at low level). I find it best to just make it a series of small encounters with random enemies on a "major battle" table. Separating the party into groups if they are in different tactical positions. Then when they roll "Seige Captain" they hit him hard

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I thought you missed Suggestion so I checked both.

David Coffron

That's how I've done it in the past at least

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch thanks for that.

NautArch

So it's really mainly for hypnotic pattern only?

Rubiksmoose

8:17 PM

@NautArch seems that way, and really I have to think that was not the intent

goodguy5

There. done. now I'm going home

kviiri

@DavidCoffron I wasn't exactly planning to :)

Mass battles are... intriguing, but that's not what DnD was designed for

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose what's weird is the clause for "This effect applies whether you are using the instrument as the source of the spell or as a spellcasting focus."

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch except none of the spells that source from the instrument cause charmed XD

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose except animal friendship

which is covered otherwise. super weird.

Rubiksmoose

8:21 PM

@NautArch oh yep forgot about that. but as you said, weird.

kviiri

@DavidCoffron So far, the only mass battle rules I've tried and liked are the Apocalypse World ones, and they are... well, simple as can be. Not really designed for tactics or prolonged encounters. And they're basically the normal combat rules.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose makes that instrument seem less impactful. And the spell it really matters for is such an encounter killer to begin with.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch it definitely is less impactful. I think I'd just let the player just use it on any of the charm spells personally.

But I really have to question what the design intent was here...

GreySage

@Rubiksmoose Probably the same as behind most of 5e: They designed stuff without having rules, then made the rules, then didn't revise what they had designed.

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage almost certainly

NautArch

8:27 PM

@Rubiksmoose and it seems VERY odd that it wouldn't work with Otto's. THat seems like an obvious spell that would benefit from a magical instrument.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch oh man you are totally right!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose not that I like Otto's. 'Cause i'm not a fan.

Rubiksmoose

8:44 PM

@NautArch yeah I've never really been a fan either honestly.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose It seems like it should be very cool with no initial save, but it very much depends on initiative order for it to be effective.

howdy @trogdor

trogdor

hi

Rubiksmoose

Want to play another game of duplicate or not? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120827/…

NautArch

heh, just clicked on the star from @SPavel about pastrami. Did powerdork ever come back to discuss their beef?

@Rubiksmoose I want to say no in that the duplicate linked is a subset of the new question.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch not that I saw lo. Just lobbed the grenade and ran.

NautArch

8:52 PM

@Rubiksmoose the answer applies, but the question is broader than the one you linked as a dupe

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch the other question's question though is "when do you use what skill?"

I see that as much broader.

or the same.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Hmm, I thought the opposite because of the specific questions on how to use perception/investigation with regard to traps.

as opposed to when doyou use it in general?

although I could your point that the trap is the example of how/when to use it.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch but the specific questions as asked in the current one is not general at all and they are all basically covered by the previous question.

GreySage

It's a trap!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Only (1) is a duplicate. The problem is the original question was specific, but got a broad answer. The newer question is broad and includes the specific question from the older one.

I think that question would be better without the 'examples' to be answered.

It's still a copypasta answer from the first question, though.

KorvinStarmast

9:11 PM

@MikeQ that's excellent RP, right there. :)

@SirCinnamon Runes as currency. We had that in a C&S campaign, but it was like "high denomination bills" and all lower currency was silver.

@NautArch I too support the pastrami initiative ....

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast at some point, i do plan on making my own.

KorvinStarmast

Yeah, I have a recipe, and a local butcher who provides brisket, smoking spices to do it ... but I am the only person in the house who likes pastrami... arrggggggggh

NautArch

that's a darn shame.

KorvinStarmast

Thin sliced pastrami, on rye, with swiss and sharp German mustard ... I am now drooling on the keyboard

NautArch

i ordered my curing salts (the ones recommended i can't get around me), but haven't done the cure yet. Possibly i'm nervous about my first curing :)

KorvinStarmast

9:18 PM

Go for it! We must keep pastrami alive.

Almost impossible to get here where I live.

@NautArch When we were in Dallas for Easter, I lost the vote on where to go for lunch. I wanted to go to a deli where I could get pastrami sandwich .... sigh

GreySage

9:35 PM

Curse you TurboTax!!!

kviiri

9:46 PM

@SPavel It actually was three fields after all! I forgot that they ask for rent income and property expenses separately (as opposed to just net gain)

GreySage

@kviiri And here I am having to fill out my taxes AGAIN because TurboTax won't let me file (even though they let me do it for free) without a US address.

kviiri

@GreySage TurboTax is some service that does tax stuff for you, right?

GreySage

@kviiri Yeah, online software

BESW

Yeah, I use H&R Block for the math but I have to manually transfer the information to the Guam-specific forms.

SPavel

10:13 PM

@kviiri Savage!

I paid a guy to do mine, and I still had to fill in more fields than that!

kviiri

I guess if I was a real adult who lived in a house of his own or so I'd have to do more

Tax reductions and all that.

SPavel

haha nobody can afford a house in New York

because Boomers bought them all, and rent them out to us

Joke's on them - by the time they retire and want to sell, my generation won't be able to afford the asking price due to the precariousness of our economic situations!

kviiri

eg. there's a tax reduction applicable for when one hires an individual to work on one's home: cleaning, renovations or such.

I think hiring a company is eligible too in some circumstances

SPavel

Huh that seems surprisingly pro-rich people?

trogdor

@SPavel ha....ha.....ha? Got them right? X(

SPavel

10:19 PM

@trogdor Well, Chinese and Russian dirty money has to be laundered somehow, right

kviiri

@SPavel Kinda. The ostensible purpose is to stimulate employment, and also to encourage renovating older buildings to retain heat better

SPavel

@kviiri Ah interesting

I remember reading about some culture (Malaysia? Somewhere in Africa?) where everyone was expected to hire on help, even people who themselves worked as housekeepers, gardeners, etc

kviiri

Heat leaks, especially in the country side, are a pretty nasty environmental issue because well, they don't tend to be the ones using the most ecological heating anyway

SPavel

The idea was that everyone had to give back to their community and the community would help them out. If you did things yourself, you were considered cheap.

kviiri

Makes sense in a way

SPavel

10:24 PM

I'm guessing that this percolates down to the children, so that it's not an endless loop of gardeners

Shalvenay

hey there @ACuriousMind

ACuriousMind

Just passing through, don't mind me :)

kviiri

I have this fantasy that one of these days I will have a talkoot to build myself a sauna somewhere remote

SPavel

@kviiri And then you will be too lazy to go there

kviiri

@SPavel Well the first time is the best, because that's the helpers' reward for participating

The whole thing can burn down as a climax

SPavel

10:26 PM

That's pretty intense, when Russians build a sauna we just do a bad job so it falls apart by itself

kviiri

haha

I have absolutely no gift in carpentry

SPavel

People tend to hire illegal migrant workers for this

It's like Taskrabbit but there is no app and also it is a crime

Also I ducked out of work to get a haircut but the haircut is not good, I guess that'll show me

kviiri

But I've come to realize that giftedness is mostly an illusion, and things I suck at are actually things I think are easy but are actually harder. When I recognize these things as hard, they become easier because I actually put in the effort required for a satisfactionary result instead of trying to do it fast.

So I guess I could build a sauna to stand the tests of time, if I just had the patience to not cut corners.

SPavel

Everything is hard if you don't practice

kviiri

Pretty much, yep.

SPavel

10:29 PM

You can't build a sauna without burning down some saunas

kviiri

You can't burn a sauna without breaking some eggs.

shower time

Joel Harmon

@kviiri Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

kviiri

@JoelHarmon yep

Joel Harmon

@kviiri That does seem to pretty much cover it.

kviiri

@JoelHarmon I think it's a different phenomenon

Joel Harmon

10:44 PM

Maybe it's an acknowledgement of the effect? Would that count as a separate effect?

kviiri

I think DK is by its definition something that's rather hard to apply to particular tasks because it covers cognitive ability as a whole

Whereas I mean something like, err... real life example:

When I was a kid, I did a lot of baking. There's this one particular kind of pastry that requires a bit of manual tweaking to turn out pretty, and because I did that a lot I was quite good at doing that fast and neat.

As I grew up I had less time for baking and made less of those pastries. So I got rusty and lost the knack. Every time I tried to make them, they turned out ugly because I tried to do them like the expert I wasn't. So I assumed I just got bad at making those.

That took a few times to sink in. I just chalked the bad times up to "bad days" or such.

But when I finally realized that nay, I had lost whatever knack I had as a child, I started performing better again because I was no longer trying to look like a pro doing it. Rather, I was taking it slow and careful, which is not usually my style. (a flaw I readily admit - I'm not a very patient person)

So I'd say this wasn't DK, it was lack of practice combined with a stubborn refusal to admit it :P

With this slightly incoherent bedtime story, I'm off to dream lands

Shalvenay

11:07 PM

hey there @DavidCoffron

KorvinStarmast

11:27 PM

@SPavel Except one thing. 8^p As to "it's harder than it looks" flying is a bit like that.

@Shalvenay I added the rest of our adventure to the forum and it crashed o n R20.
Sigh. Starting again.

I have most of the fight done, though.

Nat

11:41 PM

I'm not a D&D player and dunno if these are actual D&D 5e spells or third-party content - so just to check, are my comments here correct?

(Just in case anyone's wondering, I read the D&D stuff despite not playing the game because I think that systems and lore are both interesting.)

Miniman

@Nat Well, Blink is.

Nat

@Miniman Awesome - is the website itself a reliable one? I've seen prior comments warn against DanWiki (or whatever it's called) as having a lot of unreliable and third-party content.

Miniman

@Nat DnDBeyond, you mean? I haven't used it enough to know, but it scares me that 3rd-party content appears to only be differentiated by a single, fairly nondescript icon.

Nat

@Miniman Ohh I see a little house icon next to some of the spell names. I guess that's a "homebrew" icon?

Yeah, looks like the house icon isn't next to "Blink", but it's next to the other ones that I haven't heard of before.

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