From what we knew of our builds, we thought that the matches would be Spider-Man to Cyborg, Gadgeteer to Sniper, and Robot to goons.

In fact, it was actually Spider-Man to Sniper, Robot to Cyborg, and Gadgeteer to Goons.

We did "win", but we were all worse for wear, and one bad guy escaped.

And this is because bennies were involved?

@Ben encounters in 5e don't always tip in favour of the PCs. My players had to struggle to survive in one of my campaigns, let alone win a fight. It depends on how you are designing encounters. Normal difficulty would be a normal challenge which is typically ones the PCs can handle easily. Build a campaign with Hard or Deadly encounters as the base and you'll get a very different experience. Also, many tables dont put nearly enough encounters in an adventuring day which skews the difficulty too.

Sort of. Like I said before, bennies are used to nullify damage/re roll to attack, etc. For the bad guys it is usually just used to nullify damage. On top of this, depending on how the fight is matched up, one player might only be able to bypass the armour, but not do enough damage to be considered significant. Whereas on another target, they'd do exceptionally well.

@DavidCoffron part of it is that you can't throw a loaded adventuring day at a low level party in 5e

That being said, the combat system in PF is very different to Savage Worlds

@DavidCoffron Yes, you can tip a fight one way or another. But for example, an "even" fight would technically be reliant entirely on the dice. E.g. a PC versing an exact copy of itself. That relies entirely on the dice, and is usually considered "unfair"

Why would that be unfair? Both sides have the same resources.

Because that's entirel up to chance.

@MikeQ because a PC is typically expected to deal with a much higher workload for a given day's worth of resources than a NPC

It does depend on the experience your players want.

at least, in D&D-like systems

If a player wants that, sure. But for someone like myself, I don't often have "throw-away" characters.

@Ben it's entirely up to chance AND tactics.

That's the difference

I will say this: if it's what your players enjoy, you're doing it right.

My players at the time wanted a super hard campaign so I pulled out all the stops (within reason)

Ive had games woth many new players or different ideas for what they want and i made more approachable challenges

I did have one game where the rule was that you had to make 2 characters at the beginning of the game - because you will die. Personally, I didn't enjoy it.

I do enjoy the Savage Worlds approach though. The fight is a challenge, and without careful tactics, the fight can easily tip in the wrong direction, but that doesn't mean perma-death for your PC

@Ben Okay, I see where you're going. And I agree. If the NPCs have no reason to kill the heroes, then they don't need to. They can try to incapacitate or slow down the heroes, and then flee.

Yeah. That is my personal preference - a challenge doesn't need to end in death; and vice-versa, the NPCs can always escape, since in reality (as an exception to the rule) people usually do value their lives.

How do you get a rhino in the fridge?

You open the fridge and put it in

..i guess...

Yeah. Simple

How do you get a giraffe in the fridge?

Cast Reduce Animal, then put it next to the rhino

Or make sure that your fridge is a Fridge of Holding

Well, no you don't need to be so extreme. You can just take the rhino out first, then put the giraffe in.

Sure, that's the classic answer. But what if I don't have Remove Rhino prepared?

If the Lion King called a meeting, and he invited all the animals; carnivores, herbivores, birds, rodents... who won't be there?

It depends on whether the meeting takes place inside or outside the fridge

Outside the fridge, obviously. The giraffe is still there.

:P

You have a river - crocodile infested river. You NEED to get across. But there's no way that you can see. no crossings, no trees, no vines or shallow points... the only way is to swim across... how do you do it without being eaten?

Easily. The crocodiles are at the meeting.

Precisely :D

The first time I heard that, it was from my Math teacher (RIP). She was such a friendly woman, and when she was telling us, everyone was in stitches.

She found it hilarious, and cos she was laughing, we all started laughing. Best math lesson ever.

So, @DavidCoffron were you available yet? Let me know :)

hey there @nitsua60

The joke was good, but the distant laughter made it excellent

@Shalvenay hiya

how're things going?

I have a very simple, tedious, manual task that's going to take me the better part of the next couple hours to complete. So deciding on what to listen to first.

grading?

I've laser-engraved then painted a plaque, but there was a bit of bleed outside the painting. So I'm scraping away at it with an X-acto to get the paint off the not-supposed-to-be-painted areas. It's like I'm a dental hygenist working on someone whose tooth area is 192 in^2.

(cc: @BESW I should probably have a photo of it for you tomorrow--finally!)

ah

@nitsua60 I am also seeing that as a jeff challenge :P

Someone's got to work up a tag-wiki for jeff that includes the various rules of jeff we've devised

I though someone did already? I at least remember seeing it in a post

There are always rules.... [ominous background music]

(I suppose I should have just made a conversation and bookmarked that. Oh well. -1 jeff point)

So there's at least one set of rules.

@nitsua60 They have a firewall exception called jeff specifically for this reason

Then there's also the thermonuclear variant... [rummages]

I do enjoy many of @BESW's games.

KoM is still my favourite though.

King of Maryland is my favorite too :P

Sorry, I was out driving.

Lol

@BESW no excuses, just get your head in the game

@Ash see? He is good at what he does :D

@BESW Who's that guy standing on your forelegs?

Your jepardizing my psuedo semi celebrity by association

@trogdor You're*

Also who? haha

Blah blah blah

Famous people don't have to spell

@Ben BESW

And who is doing the ruining? Or did you answer that in the same post? hahaha

@nitsua60 also, wouldn't that just get deleted eventually?

@Ben no yeah same answer

XD

The joke is dead now, I had to explain it

I will say that my mood is a little hyper right now. Started the day in the dumps, and have since had a lot of caffeine

Does anybody know of any RPGs (other than Everyone is John) in which players represent different aspects of a single PC's character/personality?

I think several people had a few suggestions that one time I brought it up?

(If your search-fu is strong, that might assist)

@BESW wasn't there one about being a guy's character concepts in his head?

@trogdor I think that is everyone is John?

@Ben nope, everyone is John is you are his several murderous impulses

You each want to kill people different ways or something

@trogdor Actually yeah, that would be more accurate

The one I mean, you are the guy's character concepts and you don't want to be too specific or too cool or vise versa because then you either get picked and stop existing or get dropped or stop existing

Hmm. Abort Retry Fail: "A 1-page RPG about collectively trying to steer a killer robot towards its objectives and failing miserably. Each player takes control of a rogue subroutine, attempting to complete the mission to the best of their limited abilities while also accomplishing a nonsensical goal foisted on them by their malfunctioning programming."

Still not what I want.

@trogdor ohhh

@Ben How long ago?

@BESW Time is not one of my strong suits, unfortunately

...within the last year?

@Ben #timelordproblems

@BESW At least, yes.

You want to sit in his brain for "next time" so you can keep existing

@Rubiksmoose Time, not The Master, am I.

(I'm always playing jeff. It's just not always my turn.)

@Ben @BESW XD

@Ben This is the only reference I can find that involves you directly

@trogdor This does sound a little similar to another game I enjoyed - Spyfall

@BESW I'd say that's it

Yeah. That's it

Related (but only in my head), I was just thinking that several recurring problems with D&D-style adventure design probably stem from using novels as a primary inspiration source.

I've already noticed that adventures tend to work better when inspired by TV episodes rather than by films, and I think the same holds true for books: novellas and short stories are, I think, better matched to the strengths and constraints of an RPG adventure than full-length novels are.

Similar concept, just applied differently. Everyone is given a card - a role in a particular place, like a restaurant or a pirate ship. One player is the "spy". You have to ask questions to try and figure out who the spy is, without giving away the location you are in to the spy - as all they know is that they are the spy.

(This musing has been brought to you by A Dead Djinn in Cairo.)

At any time, you can stop the clock and guess who the spy is, or the spy can stop the clock, and guess where they are

@BESW seconded, I find short-form stuff better myself

@BESW Why do short stories map better to RPG adventures, compared to full-length stories?

Lots of reasons, but mostly pacing and complexity.

Short stories being less detailed, and simply provide a shell of a story to fill?

I've seen a lot of adventures that try to be paced like a traditional novel or film structure, and it just doesn't work very well. The tightly controlled narrative flow with a slow burn toward rising action and a payoff that ties everything together neatly is very hard to orchestrate in an RPG. The early parts tend to be boring from a first-person perspective, and the denoument is almost impossible to stick the landing on without leading players by the nose.

In other words, meeting in individual sessions is a better fit for creating an episodic story, as opposed to a long and continuous one?

Novels also have space for spreading exposition over more time, but in RPGs the players need to know stuff that the reader doesn't need to know up front.

It is morning in Estonia :)

@Rubiksmoose Just after midday here

@Ben oh wow, you are quite a ways off my local time then. BTW I was talking from our favorite Eagle cam (for context on why the time in Estonia matters) right now.

@MikeQ Very much so, but there's more to it than that because usually that advice just leads to people trying to compress the novel or film structure rather than recognizing that it needs to be replaced entirely.

@Rubiksmoose I can hear, not see :(

@BESW Does a short story have a fundamentally different structure than a long one? I just figured it was a matter of content and duration.

And I'd venture to take it even further: I postulate that the long-form continuity campaign, even one with an episodic structure like a TV show, should not be the "default normal" assumption for the RPG form.

@Ben It is just starting to get light. We should be seeing glorious Eagle shortly.

@MikeQ Yup. I mean, both forms have many many different implementations depending on author, culture, period, etc. But yeah, short stories are best when they're treated as a different beast altogether.

Okay, without getting political I just realized something. You know that ridiculous picture of Paul Ryan posing while lifting weights? He's curling the same weight I do in my twice-weekly workouts. And I work out, but there's no way I'm doing photo shoots trying to show off my biceps.

@Rubiksmoose As in I am not getting any feed at all. White screen only

Lies! I found your workout photo.

@BESW jeff-accomplished

long-live-king-of-jeff

I'm tempted to declare BESW jeff-emeritus

@Ben Ctrl+F5?

@Rubiksmoose Nope :(

@BESW that is too perfect.

@Ben this is going to sound stupid, but have you pressed play?

Haha yes. I think it might be just a non-standard player.

@Rubiksmoose I definitely went three or four times before realizing that was a thing.

I am using IE

@Ben bollocks

@Ash come to rpg chat. We have many memes, emojis, and jeff galore

And birds-apparently!

[grin] Ash has been lurking in RPG chat for at least three and a half years now.

@Ash yes, I have seen you in here off and on :P

@Ben Sorry to see that. I definitely have sleeping eagle in pre-dawn light.

OH!

I seeeeee iiiiiit

Just took a while apparently

@Ben :D Victory!

@Ben good because my next step was:

This gives me an idea. One of my adages to live by is "you'll never regret a sunrise." But I generally neither want to get up for sunrise nor want to stay up for it. Enter a network of 48 HD webcams, strategically located around the world....

@Rubiksmoose This is my life. Don't worry, I was close to it

NOW SHHHH

He's waking up...

Is it just me or is that dewdrop in the foreground vast, containing multitudes? Perhaps entire universes play in its waters?

Hi egg!

She*

@Rubiksmoose Starring that because I think this is the best relaxation thing I have seen in a long while

@Ben Thanks! But no need we already have it pinned to the top of our star board.

@Rubiksmoose Excellent

@Ben And thus another follower of the Eagle has hatched. Welcome brother.

@Ben How to choose. So many great lines.

@Rubiksmoose Does she have a name?

@Ben She does, we just can't pronounce it.

Is it "Merikotkas"?

Just going off the link

I'm not actually certain this one is the she BTW. With raptors I do not believe it is always the females that incubate the egg.

The new name is Tnettenba

@Rubiksmoose As I suspected, females are usually larger than the males

So that's one way to tell

OMG there's another one with cranes? youtube.com/watch?v=FdWzx0Y7Cqk

I mean I'm not shocked that more than one bird nest cam exists. It is just that sometimes (sometimes) I love the internet.

@MikeQ 5 more minutes :P

@Ben I wasn't bailing on you. My girlfriend just need my laptop... Sorry about that

I have the image of all of us currently gathered around, hushing quietly to each other as we watch haha

@DavidCoffron All good mate :)

Should we do this in TBR? Or NotABar?

@Ben Ah you're right, it's Tnetennba. I spelled it wrong.

@Ben If you're talking to me, I have no idea. I've never been in either of those rooms. Just ping me

@Ben I think it was called "God damn it Roger!" Maybe?

I literally only just remembered that

Lol

Unless I am just remembering something else

@DavidCoffron I feel like here is the appropriate place to talk about planning RPG stuff... I just don't want to disrupt the Eagle watchers haha

So for some context, The game I am building is an RPG adventure, based on Diablo 1.

Don't worry about the eagle watchers lol

Oh dear. My Diablo lore is so rusty :)

@DavidCoffron Then you should stay a while and listen

The idea is that each level, as the players delve deeper into the Cathedral, will be levelled, per level. So, level 1 - PCs are level 1, monsters are level 1.

@MikeQ [high five]

Level 2 - party levels up, so do the encounters

Etc. and so on.

I'm assuming no backtracking?

@DavidCoffron Backtracking like...?

Going back to Level 1 after reaching level 2

As in once they get to level 2 they won't be going back to level 1?

Oh. no.

The party will effectively "clear" each level as they go.

I mean, it depends what's on the floor. If each floor has some story/RP/lore value, then let them revisit, just "clear out" the monsters or whatnot. Or, retroactively level up the challenges.

Is this for a one-shot or part of a campaign

Shift change in Estonia!!!

In short, this is effectively a "mega dungeon"

Actually the megadungeon is a very solid campaign structure concept. Start out as a town next to a random ruin/dungeon, with a call for adventurers. With each level they explore, and as they go further down, they learn more and more...

Oh so you want long floors; I was picturing hyper-levelling.

There's a pathfinder module called Emerald Spire that does something similar to this

@DavidCoffron My initial structure is very simple. The idea of levelling this way, keeping it all very structured, is primarily to use it as a "beginner adventure". Pre-made characters, etc.

Do you have a plan for a level cap. Past a certain point, your structure may become limited to certain classes (teleportation, planar magic, etherealness).

I do intend to flesh it out, so that it can become more diverse, but I want to create the foundation of it in a very systematic manner, in order to keep it simple

@Ben Ah it is the male currently on the egg btw

@DavidCoffron Level 5. That's when they meet Diablo, on the lowest level

Ok. That is much more manageable. I have a hard time keepin gmy level 15 players in one plane for more than a day, let alone one building ;)

@Rubiksmoose Right :) It's a little tricky to compare sizes haha

According to this blog: looduskalender.ee/n/en/node/2206

It is the eyes apaprently for this pair.

@Rubiksmoose So the male's the lighter one, the female darker?

@nitsua60 I was thinking that too

@DavidCoffron Haha yeah. From experience level 5 is a good place to stop - players are powerful, diverse, but not entirely OP

@Ben In what system?

"The one with the darker plumage and dark eyes is the female...The male has lighter eyes and a lighter plumage."

@MikeQ 5e

I have made plans for level 1 - skeletons, with a "Boss" at the end.

@Ben A 5th level party can take on a demon? That seems low.

@Ben I'd say anywhere 5-12ish. If you cap at 5 it really disfavors multiclassing. But by 13 I feel like some classes really start to pull away.

I'm moving on to level 2 now, but I don't really have much in the way of traps or other encounters outside of combat.

@MikeQ I am a big fan of re-skinning ;)

Also, in Diablo 1, Diablo never fully manifests IIRC

And I have learned of tragedy in the nest!?! looduskalender.ee/n/en/node/2269

@nitsua60 Level 5 is probably a good place to start multiclassing, but with pre-genned characters (as a base) I don't see the need for it

Kind of like how you can face Tiamat at fairly low level (compared to what you'd expect) in Rise to Tiamat by weakening her before she appears

@DavidCoffron I had 2 plans about that - 1, the fight can carry out as it does in the game. The player enters hell, and they fight Diablo.

This is why I took all of the "extra points/slots" elements out of Fate's milestones, too.

Or 2... the use of a "Corruption" mechanic, and upon finding the Soulstone, the most corrupt PC is forced into possessing themselves with the stone, and that PC becomes Diablo

@Ben Ooh I like that, but you need to be careful about taking away player agency (especially with new players)

@DavidCoffron Yes.

You can start at the "sweet spot" and just stay there, using milestones to change characters in line with the story rather than just constantly dumping more complexity into them.

@Ben PvP without player permission is a very unsafe recipe

Maybe the soul stone is implanted like that and Diablo assumes the form of the PC with some extra class levels in a custom "Diablo" class (treated like a multiclass version of the PC)

@MikeQ No. Of course.

That's all part of the "expansion" of the game.

At its core, this game is very much "Go clear the dungeon"

2 is an interesting concept, but the problem is "the PC is forced" and not "the PC is given a choice"

@MikeQ Perhaps it can be a multi-stage challenge

Diablo's avatar/voice/whatever is like "Hey, you're very corrupt. Why not join forces with me and kill all these weaklings? Otherwise I'll attack all of you."

That would be a good idea for like post-Cathedral after defeating Diablo (or realizing that defeating him entirely is not possible), one of the PCs implants the stone and is slowly corrupted (with time to fight it off)

But that's not what I want to get into just yet.

Of course. You don't build a story around an ending.

^

I would likely to mainly focus on the encounters for the first few levels of the cathedral.

Sure. What have you got so far?

Like I said, I have the combat encounters for level 1, as well as the "Boss" monsters for each level.

I do not have level 2, though I was thinking zombies (maybe), as well as a few lesser demons.

What type of creatures are on level 1

Each level should have a different theme/flavor/motif

There is a dog-like demon creature that crawls on the walls, and attacks with it's tongue, as a pack monster, and a swarm creature, effectively teleporting bats that randomly "blink" to another location (short distance)

So if level 1 is zombies, then level 2 should be something other than "slightly larger zombies"

@DavidCoffron Skellies

Level 2 is getting into the smaller demonic creatures... the "runts" that venture further out to avoid being eaten by the bigger ones deeper within.

The boss for level 2 is The Butcher

Is there a way for the player's to find out why their are skeletons on the first floor (maybe the fallen adventurers of the past are sent to guard the gate). Try to make your themese for each level have some lore behind it to make the world feel alive

Fun tip for dungeon design: To make your dungeons unique, choose a combination of three "keywords". Everything in the dungeon is tangentially related to (at least) one of those keywords. This way, your dungeons will be diverse, but not "monochromatic".

The entire dungeon is based in a Cathedral. So underneath is the catacombs, then caves, etc. (I can't remember the areas off the top of my head)

So each level does have a unique theme

I mean, that's a start

But if level 1 is "Fancy entrance with skeletons" and level 2 is "Damp cave with skeletons" and level 3 is "Creepy catacomb with skeletons", it's gonna be samey to the players. Color-palette swapping doesn't constitute as thematic diversity when designing your tabletop misadventures.

No, lol.

I'll be frank, Diablo I was not very diverse with its enemies (system limitations likely the reason). You want to avoid that with your dungeon which means you might have to diverge somewhat from Diablo lore

Level 1 is crusty old catacombs with skeletons. Level 2 is damp caves with bats and crawly creatures, and so on.

@DavidCoffron I have thought of that, and each level has a unique set of enemies.

If level 2 of the Cathedral is based on the Butcher, try to work with that. Why does the Butcher live there? Is he here for the meat he found there? Or are the enemies there so Diablo can keep an eye on him? etc.

Not too worried about the story of each level just yet. Following the lore of Diablo 1 as a basis, which in itself is rather thin anyway. Effectively the players are coming in from the top down, and the demons are vice versa, being pushed out by the "evil"

Here's how I would start Floor 2 (take everything with salt, do your game). Allow long rest after every floor: Begin immediately with an encounter against a zombie hoard (Deadly encounter). Then the player's watch from a distance as the Butcher completely destroys the same type of encounter with ease establishing how much of a threat he is (so they should try to avoid him). Then they continue through the dungeon (whatever theme fits)...

So the levels go Cathedral, Catacombs, Caves, Hell

So I need to add another floor in there

... towards the end when they have knowledge of the floor, the Butcher finds them and chases them; put a few rooms or other things that would give the plauer's an advantage and they have to try to lure the Butcher to those rooms to beat him

OK, already got that covered. There are shortcuts out of each level, leading back to town. They can regroup and recover.

[I remember only being able to beat the Butcher at that early level by trapping him on stairs, so... it makes sense from that perspective; He should feel powerful]

Fair. I had a more thematic entrance in mind haha. But I'm not focussed on that just yet. I'm worried about the rest of the dungeon floor. I don't want it to be entirely traps and monsters, I want there to be puzzles and environmental events as well.

Ok. I would go Cathedral, Catacombs, Caves, Underdark, Hell (so many fun underdark creatures)

I also need them for level 1.

@DavidCoffron Yes... underdark is a good idea.

Cathedral allows your clerics/acolytes to shine. Put in Religious puzzles, things like that. Maybe an ancient text needs deciphering that could be assisted by creature's they leave alive or useful skill checks and exploration

@DavidCoffron Again, going with pre-genned characters for now.

I'm sorry to keep treading on you!

No, it's fine. I just forgot

I hate it myself haha

I think one of the starter set characters is a cleric though. Am I misremembering?

If this is diablo-megadungeon style, then there has to be some sort of town/encampment outside of the entrance, yeah?

I have 2 fighters - One Battle Master, the other is an Arcane Archer (UA), A Sorcerer, a Necromancer (slightly homebrewed wizard) and a Monk.

"OK, already got that covered. There are shortcuts out of each level, leading back to town. They can regroup and recover." @MikeQ

@MikeQ Yes. Tristram. Each level has a shortcut back into town :)

Right, I know there's always a shortcut out. I was asking about the contents of the town itself.

Either that, or I was thinking of placing in Waypoints (through an artefact I found that work as waypoints).

Works with the Lore of D1, since it was originally a Horadric Monastery.

If you want to involve some RP / challenges that the players can't simply punch, you could put some sort of challenge that involves some unknown knowledge, but consulting The Expert In Town will help them decipher what the puzzle means

@MikeQ Oh right. Tavern, Healer, Blacksmith, and "the Witch".

Good place for quests

And of course, Deckard

Wirt himself is a great side quest.

What are the rewards for side quests?

Not sure yet.

If I follow the in-game rewards, it's usually gear.

But in the case of Wirt, it's rescuing him.

So that's a Moral victory

Information or other aid could also be an option. There are also the charms in the DMG (for a side quest with a mystic character of some sort). Always magic items.

@DavidCoffron Yeah. My only deterrent from rewarding with more gear is that some encounters can become unbalanced if they get buffed with too many magical items

w00t, just protected a question manually for the first time ever

@BESW that's from the Odyssey?

@Ben but your player's don't have to know what was in the original encounters. You can always make the encounters more challenging once you know how many side quest rewards they've got (just a bit of scaling). Lets them feel like the quests had an impact due to the rewards, but keeps your encounters challenging

@BESW [impressed applause] that is some high-class-jeff

It's Cavafy's Ithaka. It's a reference to the Odyssey, yes.

Ah ok

I recognize the place name

@trogdor Ithaca vs. Ithaka?

But I didn't get far when I tried to read the Illiad and the Odyssey

@Ben both are right. Greek doesn't distinguish

Can a multi-hour short rest count as multiple short rests?

This querent in this Q is having some interesting player issues.

@Ben again with the spelling huh? I'm famous I don't have to spell XD

@DavidCoffron nvm I take it back I'm just a genius

@trogdor Both are correct. One is from the poem, the other is an island in Greece

Ιθάκη is the Greek name. The romanization can be Ithaca or Ithaka.

@Ben don't mind the notes I'm taking, they are for posterity, obviously I know all this already

@DavidCoffron Gotta love the greek. "K or C?" [shrug]

XD

@Rubiksmoose I'm not sure if frame challeng'ing a link to the 15 minute adventuring day question in comments would work. It's a tough question

@DavidCoffron yeah there's a lot of stuff going on here. And the new-user confusion isn't really helping either.

I did my best by adding the player dynamic stuff to the question with the hope someone wants to try to tackle it.

@Rubiksmoose He has enough rep for chat, it might be best to pull him into a chat room to suss out exactly what is causing the intra-party dynamic, etc.

@DavidCoffron yeah, but I cannot tackle it right now. I've got bed that needs getting to.

@Rubiksmoose [rubs hands] c'mere you...

@Rubiksmoose fair enough. I'm close to that time too. I'll think about answering with something constructive.

If it still is an issue and stuff I think chat might not be the worst way to try to work them through stuff tomorrow, but not at this time for me at least.

@Ben with the archetypes you chose, the first 2 floors might be a little bland mechanically before the Battlemaster, Arcane Archer, and Monk get their archetypes. As such, you should really try to spice up those floors with as much non-combat or variant combat encounters as possible

Would it not be fantastic to have weather-proof coating

@DavidCoffron Yeah. The first level especially (maybe the second, if I throw some zombies in there) is where the Necromancer has some fun, as they have a "Command Undead" spel' (which works similar to "friends" but only works on Undead)

How does Command Undead work like that. When are the zombies/skeletons not hostile?

alright. Good night all.

The caster simply takes control of the undead creature, for the period of time (following an opposed wisdom check)

@Rubiksmoose \o

They can then release them at leisure, or be released automatically after the period of time expires (1 hour)

That is really strong... Removing an enemy from an encounter (or adding an ally to one) can swing the difficulty by a lot (thanks to bounded accuracy)

That's why WoTC had to be so careful with Ranger's Companion

That is the idea... The first and last encounters I have planned for the undead involve 10 skellies (re-skinned as weak zombies) and 1 actual Zombie, and a boss-skelly with regenerating skellies (only have 1 hp each though)

The mechanics are another thing, but I won't get into it.

The Command Undead spell is a useful tool, rather than an overpowered one in this case

Fair enough. Just being wary. Giving the necromancer a chance to shine in level 1 is fine (and some chances in other levels 2), but if that's the case, I would try to let the other levels give opportunities for the other characters. At level 2, the monk will come into his Ki. Giving opportunities for Step of the Wind or Patient Defense to be used would really improve the appeal of the feature (as more than just a lots of attack feature).

I'm assuming short rests will be available at some points.

@DavidCoffron Yes. I feel that will be great in the "boss" battle, being assailed by multiple enemies at once

(perhaps)\

Have you played Skyrim?

@DavidCoffron Resting is always available, provided they find their way back to town (obviously just throw it in when its needed)

@DavidCoffron I have

Bleak Falls Barrow is a good model for the Catacombs imo (obviously scaled up). Diverse enemies with a common theme. Traps. Exploration. And hard to get to places. The monk can deal with those hard to get too places (maybe for some extra loot) with that extra jump height of his / just a thought.

@DavidCoffron I'll keep that in mind :)

Gotta head off now. Gonna go give my daughter a cuddle :)

Tudalu. Good luck with your dungeon crafting

I shall come back with results (when I have them) lol