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12:13 AM
@GreySage I have no clue. I think it's the only stat that they couldn't hack into boosting well, and they used permanent ability drain stuff that drained wisdom as well
 
I just wish that I could find a campaign that I could get my Palalock-candidate moving in (Paladin/Warlock multiclass, definitely better in 5e than 3.5e)
 
lol
The worst and best thing is creating an awesome build, then having nowhere to use it
 
@Shalvenay it was pretty nice in 4e too
 
@Alphaeus the char got up to L3 in their original "home" campaign before that was aborted due to scheduling issues
 
I multiclassed a warlock into a paladin and then later a paladin into a warlock
 
12:18 AM
@trogdor haha
 
hmmm, I dunno what to make out of this: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/111272/…
something tells me "I have no idea what PNP RPG is supposed to be... but I wanna win at it."
 
@Trish going as an undercover saboteur for a first RP is pretty bold, damn. I also see the problem of "I wanna ruin everyone elses fun because they told me no"
 
Yeaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
"Ok, great idea!" on one hand
"But you're missing the point" on the other
 
@Asteria yea... and then "I have no idea what edition they play, but I wanna win at the game.
to me it is unclear what she actually wants... and thus: VTC on my watch...
 
Also "they have no idea that I'm playing" buuut also "they won’t even know who’s sabotaging them"....If you're a PC's EX, he's going to know you. Unless she's playing separate?
confused
 
12:25 AM
It could be play by post?
 
I'm going to toss a generic answer up
 
@Asteria true, THAT too!
 
Touching both points
 
@Alphaeus probably best not to, actually, considering how much we don't know about system
 
@Alphaeus na, a comment and close is more site style..
 
12:26 AM
Well, fair enough.
 
Without further info from the OP, this is a no-no to me.
 
@Asteria I'm not sure I have great compassion for the ruined fun of people that told her she couldn't play because she's a "girly girl" in the first place. The whole setup is dysfunctional, not only her attitude.
 
@ACuriousMind aye. it sounds like the OP's best off finding another group to play with
 
Yeah, or just approach them honestly, and ask to prove herself
 
@ACuriousMind don't get me wrong, I'm the first one to bite at the bit when someone says "You're a GIRL. This is a BOY game". But I also understand wanting to play with your partner
 
12:33 AM
Please don't give answers in comments.
It teaches askers they don't have to clean up their questions, because they already got responses without any effort to meet site standards. It also keeps other users with the same problem from being able to search for the answers; it sidesteps the site's sorting-by-voting system; and nobody else can edit to improve the quality of the answers.
Comments on questions need to stick with how to improve the question.
 
@BESW On the other hand, I never would've gotten the Marshal badge without it XD
 
@BESW do you run into the "troubleshooting suggestions in comments" norm on other Stacks you are active on, btw? (kinda curious as to how you handle that if you do work with/encounter it)
 
@Miniman Ima lookin fer the Marshall in these here parts
:P
 
@Shalvenay Comments as answers are a barometer for a Stack's understanding of what makes the Stack work.
in The Reading Room, Sep 27 at 13:54, by BESW
There are many reasons to allow comments-as-answers, yes. But those reasons do not, have never, and likely never will, outweigh the drawbacks in their effect on the quality of the site and its community culture.
 
@trogdor Suddenly a shot rings out "When it comes to tham thar drag-ins, ai shoot furst and don't ask any questions." Spits on the ground
 
12:40 AM
@Shalvenay It happens on Physics all the time, especially on closeable homework questions. They're not allowed as a norm, but just like the answer-comments here, they happen regardless from time to time.
 
I don't fit in well with Stacks that are legitimately okay with answers as comments.
 
@BESW is a mere troubleshooting suggestion an answer though?
 
@Miniman judge jury and executioner are we?
 
@Shalvenay Usually, yes. It can be phrased as "tell us more about your situation," but it's usually not.
 
@trogdor "Ai don't answer any questions, neither."
 
12:43 AM
@BESW I will say that I've gotten better about phrasing troubleshooting suggestions as questions-to-the-querent, at least
"Do you read 24VAC between here and here?"
 
If a troubleshooting comment could solve the querent's problem, it should be an answer.
If it's diagnostic, that's a suggestion for how to improve the question.
 
@BESW should "Try XYZ and report back what happens" be an answer or a comment then?
 
And yes, there's often grey area between the two extremes and each site can handle it differently according to the context of its topic.
@Shalvenay If you need to do that, then it's probably a question which needs discussion to answer and may not be a great subject for the Stack format in the first place. Each Stack needs to figure out how to handle its own topic scope.
 
@BESW yeah, I just hit 20k in DIY.SE and am trying to help improve things, but it's a rather hard row to hoe in the face of large quantities of hit-and-run users and not a lot of coordination
@Asteria -- as a sidenote: what systems do you play in, btw? (curious :)
 
@Shalvenay IT would appear that to improve the site, you need to... do it yourself, eh?
 
12:50 AM
@Miniman the sherrif walks in Mcmarshall how many times I gotta tell you you can't just do that? Oh well I can't stay mad atcha, honest mistake
 
@Shalvenay D&D 5e & 3.5e, Started playing blades recently, though we mostly play freeforms here (and tacky board games like HerosQuest)
 
@ACuriousMind hahaha, yes xD. I've done some tag cleanups/burninations (although those can be frustrating due to the slow pace one has to take them at), have written entire tag wikis from scratch, and a few other things. it doesn't help though that I'm mostly a specialist (i.e. someone who doesn't cover the site's domain fully) -- means I stay "hands off" with quite a few questions
@Asteria mostly synchronous/chat-based freeform, or asynchronous/play-by-post?
 
@Shalvenay 90% chat-based, then the odd PBP thrown in when I find something interesting online
 
Ok, my players did not bake their weapons into bread now... but they were terribly frightened of the half elf sniper that can aim for both eyes with one arrow and still score a hit with any roll but a 20.
And they looked in horror as Darrag the smith walked up on that one ork, lifted his hammer one handedly... and took off his jaw, tongue and teeth in one strike.
 
@Trish that half-elf sounds like he'd be in good company with a certain Finn who made his name during WWII...
@Trish OTOH -- hands Darrag a sheaf of blueprints "Got a commission for ya'. Need a con-rod pair for an EMD 8-567C. Shouldn't be too terribly hard for a skilled smith like you, no?"
 
12:58 AM
@Shalvenay That's a fantasy game XD
 
 
1 hour later…
2:14 AM
hey again @MikeQ
 
Greetings mortal. So tell me more about the meatspace campaign where you're a pseudo-paladin.
 
@MikeQ xD. so...we're running a mutant version of the Sunless Citadel to help get some new-ish players up to speed and have some good times as well :) the initial stages went crazy-wild with a big mess of wild magic + fungus zombie regen rats, then we slowly made our way through the rest of the top end
kobolds were easy, good chance for the bard to break out her diplo chops. we have one kobold with the party now, hopefully he lives up to his reputation xD
also, my palahack got to take her turn at being the smartest member of the party. yes, the big ol' half-orc lass has more brains in her head than the bard or the high elf rogue for that matter, and def. more grey matter than the barbarian, that's for sure
(p.s. the barbarian is a DMPC from a homebrew race of celestial ooze people)
hey there @thedarkwanderer
 
2:33 AM
Do you mean "mutant" as in "it's no longer a pure dungeon crawl" or as in "now it has mutants"
 
@MikeQ mutant as in "it's not the stock adventure any longer. ex: fungus zombie regen rats"
also: kobold sharpshooters with bolt-action rifles. you do not want to get on the wrong side of that.
(same dice as the heavy crossbow, but ignores pierce resistance)
 
For a second there, I imagined kobold artificers from UA, each with one of those scaling-damage rifles
 
@MikeQ tell me about the scaling-damage rifles xD
 
2:51 AM
(still looking for it, sorry, please stand by)
Gunsmith, the artificer specialization from UA, came out earlier this year. Their weapon is a Thunder Cannon that has absurd range, and damage that begins at 2d6 and increases by +1d6 every odd-numbered level.
 
@MikeQ oh. dear.
that + pack tactics = firing squad, man.
 
It's usable up to 40 times, then refresh on a long rest. That's the only limitation.
At 9th level, they can use it as a FUS RO DAH cone blast, and at 14th level, it can be used as a line-AOE laser.
 
@MikeQ that's...quite a bit of ammo xD
 
This is all on top of a limited spellcasting progression, and a robot butler they get at 6th level
 
@MikeQ lulz @ robot butler
 
3:01 AM
I'm not making this up. This is the actual class concept put forth by WOTC.
 
@MikeQ I figured as much. doubt it will get out of UA unaltered
 
@MikeQ It's not quite as bad as you've made it sound, though. They modelled it directly off the Rogue - the damage progression is the same as Sneak Attack, and the spellcasting progression is the same as an Arcane Trickster.
 
Yeah, but... robot butler? I mean, it's not absurdly overpowered on its own, but when you sum up the benefits from across the class, the end result is definitely at a relative advantage.
 
Probably, yeah.
But it's not like the Rogue is the strongest class to begin with.
 
3:17 AM
hey again @Asteria
 
hey hey @Shalvenay
 
how're things going?
 
Slowly slowly, only three more hours of work. Whats happening on your end?
 
An adventure about fun guys versus fungi
 
What is even the difference?
This day in age those sound like the same thing
 
3:28 AM
@trogdor while fun guys can be put in the corner, fungi needs as mushroom as possible. Eh? Eh? No?
 
Lol
 
I'll see myself out
 
@Asteria not a whole lot
hey there @Nyoze
 
Yo
Was wondering if you'd notice me here :P
 
@Nyoze how're things going? got a pregen handy?
 
3:30 AM
Working atm, give me 30 or so to catch up and should be good?
Been working on my PF Arena char lately, trying to optimize it some more.... :\
 
@Nyoze ah.
@Asteria -- if you want to try your hand at joining me and Nyoze in a 5e dungeon run, we're looking to start one up in ~30mins if you can make or grab a char now?
 
@Shalvenay I'm at work D: no can do
 
@Asteria ah.
 
@DaveTheGame I’ve been really pleased with what I’ve seen of the SCRPG system to date. Feels like Marvel Heroic got better control of dice pool sprawl, went on a second date with Fate, and took some fashion tips from the card game.
 
@BESW what does thus refer to?
A sentinel comics OK
 
3:57 AM
hey there @nitsua60
 
4:27 AM
Humble Bundle have a 5e Frog God Games & Kobold Press bundle - includes Tome of Beasts & Book of Lairs, among others
(and is cheaper for the top tier, than just Tome of Beasts PDF by itself)
 
@Adeptus I saw that - I don't know anyone who's played with their material though, so I have no idea how good/bad it is.
 
I've seen some praise online for Tome of Beasts. I don't know anyone personally who has it, though.
 
 
2 hours later…
Ben
6:48 AM
Another physics in D&D question answered.
This time with less detail :P
 
7:15 AM
I can make my own shadow, what are you talking about? :O
 
 
2 hours later…
9:06 AM
So, who wants a thread on the role of women during the viking era? Too bad, you'll get it anyway ;) Okay, so let's start with the key thing: Most of the times, girls were married off at age 12-15, generally to cement alliances. They were expected to know how to run a household.
 
Wait...They were expected to waste skillpoints on craft skills?
 
It's a good thread!
 
huh, better than I thought it would be
not the thread but the conditions it lays out I mean
 
 
1 hour later…
10:36 AM
hey @BESW, how would you go about doing FAE with Star Wars
Im trying to wrestle with how to conceptualize a lightsaber battle with stress/consequences or a shootout with blasters and similar
 
Have you Googled it? There are a lot of folks who've done workups on the concept already.
Star Wars Fate, with @mc_ellis @devlin1 @JazzIsBlues and @EricLytle! https://t.co/prznB0EEQW
 
I'm seeing kind of character design and I can get that
 
Feb 27 at 20:21, by BESW
@RichardWard This looks promising: Ryan M. Danks' Star Wars Fate Edition.
 
@Skyler The consequence is always losing an arm.
 
@Miniman i seem to recall a certain person saying that is a particularly boring consequence last time it came up
=P
but yea, lets say we have a lightsaber duel going on, how can you FATEify the conflict
 
10:46 AM
That link above looks to be here now.
...like you'd run anything else in Fate? I don't know what you're struggling with, so I can't give advice.
Remember the Golden Rule: Decide what you’re trying to accomplish first, then consult the rules to help you do it.
 
hmm
remember how you said you can more or less turn any encounter in something you've seen into the Fate format
any chance you might be willing do one of these on a lightsaber duel in one of the films
 
Not right now.
And no, not everything matches to Fate.
 
yea not right now
what cases have the biggest mismatch, in your opinion
like what is fate bad at
 
Fate is bad at stories about characters who just have things happen to them, rather than going out and being proactive.
It's bad at stories about characters who are bad at everything they do.
And it's bad at stories about characters who always make the right choices and avoid complications.
In other words, the Fate character trifecta: Fate is for telling stories about competent, dramatic, proactive characters.
 
It's also bad at stories about characters who simply don't really have complications happen to them, or experience uncomplicated successes without significant setback.
I could play Steven Universe in Fate, but I'd probably look at other systems first, like Cartoon Action Hour. I probably couldn't play Adventure Time in Fate, because there's usually just one twist of a complication.
 
10:58 AM
It's also bad at telling stories where things only ever get worse, or only ever get better, from the starting situation.
The fate point economy forces a cycle of crisis and victory.
 
We're thinking about doing a campaign set shortly after the rise of the Empire
So crisis is in easy demand, I suppose the players can make victory achievable
 
I don't know enough about Star Wars for era references to convey a lot of information. You can assume I've seen all six films and Star Wars: Rebels.
 
Basically picture a year after Palpatine rises to power and Order 66
 
I believe star wars has it's own system
 
@MaikoChikyu It has a few.
 
11:01 AM
@MaikoChikyu probably multiple,
 
Because Star Wars has become a sprawling franchise, no single system can effectively encompass all possible gameplay styles: you can play espionage or politics or adventure or tactical battles or just run a bar.
 
There's Star Wars d20 and three games by fantasy flight. (But even when a fictional world has corresponding games, that doesn't make those games always the best way to explore a story in that world.)
 
So play goals are very important to make clear, both when picking a system and to make sure all the participants are playing the same game.
I've heard very good things about using Faith Corps for Rebels-style gaming.
 
Since I was thinking of proposing something easy to catch on to for my relatively inexperienced table (folks were talking about doing Star Wars in DnD ffs)
and I've been curious about trying FAE for a while
 
@doppelgreener cf Stargate.
 
11:06 AM
@doppelgreener KOTOR is also technically a d20 star wars system
but its a video game
 
@BESW Stargate is a very effective example. The official system doesn't achieve Stargate narrative at all and actively contradicts it. Lots of franchise tabletop RPGs are pretty bad.
 
Especially during the d20 System boom/bust period.
 
nods head in ignorant but decently BSing understanding
 
45
Q: What is "the d20 bust," and what does "post-d20 game" mean?

BESWReading this gaming industry retrospective I ran into a few phrases which confused me. The d20 bust caused by 3.5e (2003) and the over-saturation of d20 products ran right into the Great Recession. What's "the d20 bust"? I came into RPGs shortly after 3.5's release, so I can't compare befor...

 
btw, most anime is absolutely perfect for the FAE system
 
11:10 AM
The d20 SRD prioritises physical conflict as the primary mode of problem-solving, while the Stargate SG-1 TV series tends to treat physical conflict as a backdrop or intensifier for emotional or scientific problem-solving. It was a fundamental mismatch at a very basic thematic level.
 
it's kind of crazy how good a fit it is
 
@Skyler I wouldn't make a generalisation that broad. You're talking about an entire country's animation output.
I can absolutely think of animes where fate fits but plenty where it doesn't.
 
@doppelgreener I mean I guess I'm talking about shows that aren't slice of life, have some form of heroic structure to them
 
I would be disinclined to use Fate for, say, Arrietty.
 
@Skyler fate is pretty good for a lot of heroic stories.
But it needs to be a hero who's facing dramatic setbacks along the way.
 
11:12 AM
...though a Golden Sky Stories hack might work.
 
An anime like Gurren Lagann (including super spoilers bits we shouldn't go into) or Kill la Kill can be great for Fate. That's mostly because the world has a status quo the heroes are setting out to change. (This means they can be proactive and competent, and experience drama along the way.)
 
Personally when I first got a rundown of FAE I translated everything I heard into the Fate anime
well, VN actually, but still
 
That also avoids the Western superhero story issue: in Western supers comic, it tends to be that villains are the proactive ones, and heroes are only reactive. Heroes are guardians of the status quo. Many of the stories around heroes like Superman turning evil are based around the hero deciding they want to proactively save the world. That makes Fate's Proactive pillar compromised in a Western superhero story.
2
 
There we go
@doppelgreener That's mostly it
 
@Skyler If you can dig up a clip of the Vader/Luke fight at the end of Episode V, I'll try to find time later tonight to talk about how it could be Fately.
 
11:20 AM
Boom, all 4:30 of it there
thanks
 
@doppelgreener Maybe unfreeze the Fate room so I can dump it in there later without spamming a regular chat?
 
thanks
 
11:57 AM
yeah re-watching it, there are some nice uses of zone aspects in it
and actual aspect creation
 
I was actually thinking of the bit after that fight, on the rail, with the hand and the join me and the screaming.
 
There was some great use of zones in that one too if you catch my drift.
All of them used very briefly.
(actually falling through tunnels & shafts isn't a time zones should get used so don't take that joke as having any educational value)
 
12:13 PM
I'm trying to decide if the fight linked above is a conflict, or if it's a contest.
 
12:24 PM
Well, Luke suffered rather nasty consequences there, which is more of a conflict thing.
 
What do you see as the consequences he took?
 
Luke lost a hand for one.
 
The video above ends before that part.
 
Okay, I should've watched the video itself instead of just reminiscing.
Also he learns a horrible truth that is a spoiler!
 
12:26 PM
he probably took consequences when he got hit several times by the force thrown stuff
he definitely looked like he was tiring out and very upset over those hits
 
This is a weird sort of scenario in Fate. We can look at film scenarios like this and decide it's a conflict based on stuff that happens at the end. But in Fate, we're working from the beginning and want to see where it goes. Conflicts are usually unwarranted, but bodily harm is not a thing we have mechanical facility for in Contests.
 
> Whenever two or more characters have mutually exclusive goals, but they aren’t trying to harm each other directly, they’re in a contest.
 
well the weird thing is one of them is not trying to harm the other
but not both of them
 
> As long as the characters involved have both the intent and the ability to harm one another, then you’re in a conflict scene.
So, my first thing is to look at goals.
> Goals: Luke wants to save his friends. Vader wants to capture Luke.
 
but they both do this by,... fighting
though to be fair Vader was definitely pulling punches for a separate outcome
and Luke,... might have very well been fine with just stalling Vader
so there is a case there, I guess
 
12:32 PM
intent and ability to harm.
They're both definitely able to, and Luke at least has the intent.
 
So I think they translate their goals into goals to actually attack each other.
 
Yeah.
 
Vader compels Luke to be goaded into an all-out fight.
Vader, should he win, potentially has access to say "Luke joins me on the dark side."
 
I'm doing a lot of other stuff, but I'm slowly writing up the moves and... Vader's doing a lot of creating advantages on Luke's aspects.
> Vader makes a few offensive gestures with his lightsabre, but Luke blocks them easily because Vader is actually Cleverly creating an advantage to place a free invoke on Luke's aspect Don't get cocky, kid! He succeeds with style and says, "You have learned much, young one."
> Luke, emboldened, rushes Vader to Quickly attack. Vader's got three free invokes and uses them all to defend Quickly (he's not very Quick on his own) and get a success with style that leaves Luke Disarmed.
 
I've got something to describe briefly on an area of Fate I'd like to explore, and might be best doing it in the Fate room.
 
12:40 PM
Aight.
 
When invoking, one can roll first and then decide whether to spend free invokes/fate points, right?
 
yes
they are not meant to be spent to no effect
 
Makes sense gameplay-wise at least
yep
 
Yes. You never "waste" invokes or points by spending them on an action that you fail.
 

 Fate chat and game room

Good questions raised here should hit the main site too! Fudge...
 
1:26 PM
@BESW How does one get three free invokes? I thought success with style only creates two?
 
top o my morn!
 
@NautArch Greetings
 
My bard recently levelled and got access to level 7 spells. and they're pretty underwhelming :(
 
Well you aren't a wizard so it is normal for your spells to not to be as epic as a spell belonging to a wizard.
On the plus side you get the daily called 'Create a half-race' spell like ability which allows you to create any half race going as far as half golems.
 
@MaikoChikyu create half a race?
sorry, this is 5e :)
 
1:34 PM
@MaikoChikyu 5e Bard is actually pretty heavily magical. They get access to 9th level spells and all.
They're a bit short on dedicated combat spells, though, but they have Magical secrets to make up for it. Magical secrets allows them to learn spells of any class, even ranger spells usually not available to anyone else.
 
forcecage is pretty neat, but we often fight larger than 10x10 monsters. just not sure howmuch i'd use it. I"m thinking of grabbing the xanathar 5th level Synaptic Static instead.
 
The sad side is, 5e Bards suffer heavily from the concentration mechanic. Can't stack 'em buffs.
 
This guy gets me
 
hahaha
 
Also summarizes quite neatly why I don't really like DnD that much
 
1:36 PM
too much players vs dm?
 
No, it's really hard to give the players narrative freedom while conforming to the rules.
 
More like my players having a severe lack of wisdom.
 
So it requires a lot of judgment calls from the GM, which makes it harder for the GM.
 
@kviiri it really a LOT on the ability of the DM to improvise
 
Yeah.
 
1:37 PM
@NautArch Exactly, but there's tons of games that make it way easier
 
For example i said there was an ad for the dark crusade in the adventurers guild
The group decided to join the dark crusade. Proceeded to take over their regiment by murdering it's leader and impaling his head on a giant sword.
Been improvising ever since
 
Well there's an example: the party decides to fight someone they weren't supposed to fight. The GM has to conjure a stat block, preferably a balanced one.
Then stat blocks for whoever responds and reacts...
 
Personally i keep a bunch of spare sheets for each class in my folder.
If players attack shall we say a paladin i take out a random sheet.
 
Yeah, but that's already extra workload for you, and something one has to learn by experience. It could be easier.
(also, by my experience, PC built characters don't make the optimal opponents)
 
@kviiri yea, we went up against of bounty hunters that were PC builds and we cleaned house. Most battle XP we've gotten, but then next battle was significantly harder against monsters.
 
1:45 PM
Yeh, PCs are designed to last an entire adventuring day but monsters are meant to fight one good battle :P
 
Personally i try to avoid having my players fight monsters.
 
Why's that?
 
I try to let my players change the political landscape a bit. I use a persistent generic setting and my players love it when they encounter something that they caused. It's much harder to pull of permanent changes with monsters unless they are extremely high level ones.
But it might be just me.
 
I like that sort of stuff too
But I don't really see how DnD plays into that
I like doing thinly-veiled political fantasy in Apocalypse World though :P
And am eager to try it in FAE
 
In D&D your characters can accomplish heroic feats. At lower levels it might be breaking the castles gate or fighting off ten assasins and at higher levels it can be holding 200 strong force at bay or purging a city from all of it's criminals.
 
1:51 PM
D&D doesn't play into that much at all. It's part of why BESW's group and my group each decided we were moving to Fate (and then we wound up playing Fate together).
@BESW would recall that he had a game with a new player who was coming up with all kinds of amazing ideas he loved and wanted to use -- but since the rules had no framework on which to support them, or actively resisted them, he had to say no to every single one of them. When he did have games going really well utilising players' ideas, it was either without regard to the system (since it wasn't helping them do it) or in active resistance of some part of the system trying to invalidate it.
Myself, I had a D&D game that was heavily invested in players entering a world and changing its political landscape totally. D&D was mainly about the fights, but the most fun parts of this game where everything else outside the fighting. So likewise in that game D&D itself was busy getting in my way with its system expectations, and in the most fun parts of the game I was hardly using the D&D rules at all.
We each decided a game like Fate better supports the kinds of stories we want to tell, because it not only didn't have to be actively resisted and spited in order to tell them, but it actually supported and propelled us forward through those narratives.
 
@MaikoChikyu I'm not sure if earlier editions are better at this, but 4e and 5e would be poor to abysmal at the latter two without homebrewing rules.
 
E.G. in a Stargate SG-13 story, @trogdor and I can happily and actively pursue schlocky Stargate tropes and since Fate helps propel us through that gameplay, we chose that game to run it.
 
By the way i technically use Pathfinder.
 
For other games we've utilised other systems, e.g. Cthulhu Dark helps propel us through actual horror games.
@MaikoChikyu (For these purposes, consider Pathfinder and D&D to be equivalent, since they pretty much are barring minor nuances about how they do their thing.)
 
For example, fighting 200 enemies would require 200 initiative rolls, and have very slow turn progress unless the enemies were somehow hacked to represent more than one enemy combatant at a time. A better, but again unintuitive option is to treat the whole combat encounter as a sort of skill challenge, but that takes lots of GM skill to pull of well.
 
1:58 PM
I like FATE but FATE has you become a relatively normal human. You cannot summon gargantuan creatures. You can't take 20 arrows and say:"That tickled." Those are the kind of adventures my players like to see.
 
Why not?
 
Well you have 4 physical tolerance and 3 trouble slots. After 7 arrows you are down.
 
A single arrow fired at your character doesn't have to represent a single attack action against the character, does it?
 
I am a bit confused.
 
Is this FATE i.e. 1.0 and 2.0, or Fate Core?
Because that stuff doesn't sound like Fate Core, but I don't know about FATE 2.0 and prior.
 
FATE core
I only know FATE core
 
Fate Core is just lowercase Fate. We write FATE for versions 2.0 and prior, when it was an acronym, i.e. F.A.T.E. Nowadays it's just the word, Fate.
 
and all very different than FATAL
 
@MaikoChikyu and that is not at all how Fate Core works
Here, have Charles Babbage as a clockwork robot with his brain in a case: docs.google.com/document/d/…
Having 4 physical tolerance and 3 trouble slots and falling down after 7 arrows is summarising things in a multitude of incorrect ways.
 
2:06 PM
That's how my GM had run FATE for me
 
It sounds a bit like your GM ran Fate as a combat simulator of a D&D ilk, which is a common first experience of Fate as well as a major faux pas.
 
Well, they were doing it a bit too DnD-ish, then
 
Have Stellata, a dryad: docs.google.com/document/d/…
And a later version of her in another game: docs.google.com/document/d/…
(I can't seem to find the most recent iteration of her in that game, she went through a couple of changes.)
Oh wait here it is: docs.google.com/document/d/…
 
FAE actually has a rather interesting (seeming?) omission in its rules:
> Conflicts are used to resolve situations where characters are trying to harm one another. It could be physical harm (a sword fight, a wizard’s duel, a battle with laser blasters), but it could also be mental harm (a shouting match, a tough interrogation, a magical psychic assault).
Is it just me, or should that also include the stipulation that the participants are capable of harming each other?
 
I guess i'll try to find a group willing to play FATE or join a group that plays FATE
 
2:11 PM
@kviiri Maybe, but it's Fate Accelerated, so they summarised past that probably.
 
If we literally had a situation where the PC is against a group of archers that can't do anything to harm her, I would probably shift the stakes. The archers are only shooting in desperation, in hopes the arrows provide enough distraction for some of them to escape.
 
And we'd probably consider what's even going on there, since it probably isn't a conflict.
 
Yep, I'd say it's a Contest but they're also a bit weird in FAE srd:
> When two or more characters are competing against one another for the same goal, but not directly trying to hurt each other, you have a contest. Examples include a car chase, a public debate, or an archery tournament.
Does it have to be the same goal? Clearly not quite - a car chase has somewhat different goals for the participants.
So I guess by that logic a conflict could have the hero's goal be the capture of the archers, and the archers' goal the escape of at least some of them.
 
Most of the philosophy of how fate core works is embedded in the core book rather than accelerated, and accelerated is just summarising it — we'd still use a contest in that scenario.
The contest would be to see who can achieve their goal first: the archers get away or the hero captures them.
 
Yeah, I'd say that's comparable to the car chase example.
Of course this is a game of different assumptions than DnD, where one'd probably have the archers loose arrow after arrow at the protagonists who would wipe them out to the last one standing.
 
2:25 PM
i agree on both counts
 
In fact, I'd say Fate, when played by someone who wants to respect the conventions of the genre, probably fulfills heroic fantasy tropes way better than DnD.
 
I agree with that to the point that I was working on a heroic fantasy fate game for a while a year or two ago.
(It's on hiatus because I haven't really needed to do anything with it)
 
It can be argued whether DnD is designed to support the heroic fantasy genre though - I think a credible case can be made for DnD being a sort of genre of its own.
 
The typical D&D experience is primarily reactive, where the GM sets out troubles and the players set out to resolve them, and then respond to challenges put in their way (and Dungeon World simulates that effectively in ways Fate can't)
A fate heroic fantasy game would have to set up a status quo or visible impending situation the heroes challenge -->
3 hours ago, by doppelgreener
An anime like Gurren Lagann (including super spoilers bits we shouldn't go into) or Kill la Kill can be great for Fate. That's mostly because the world has a status quo the heroes are setting out to change. (This means they can be proactive and competent, and experience drama along the way.)
 
I guess i'll try running a FATE game to see where it goes
 
2:40 PM
@doppelgreener Indeed. Go Fate if you want to do proactive heroic fantasy, but if you're seeking a more DnD-like experience with specific DnD tropes, DW is the easier choice
 
In Apocalypse World, I'd run the 200 crooks scenario as three or four large gangs working as a larger unit, each led by a named NPC.
 
The scenario that propelled me to make a Fate heroic fantasy game was of that variety: the players were arriving in lands with a great number of high-impact situations teetering on the brink, including two separate potential wars brewing (one a civil war). The players would be positioned to decide how the dominos fell.
 
Each would have some special feature too, to make them a bit more interesting.
"On the left wing, there's Jaunty Jack's choppers. Fifty freaks on bikes, toting uzis and sawn-off shotguns. Center-left, Numb4r's retinue. Seems to be mostly freaked out peasants who don't want to be here. Center-right, Bonoch's posse, scary mercenaries with small arms but they've also got an AT gun. Right wing, Elmo and his Edibles, a (literally and figuratively) colorful bunch already dancing wildly covered in nothing but filth and paint."
AW has rules on how a gang inflicts and suffers damage and the added narrative bits provide cues for the players to expand on. Although I would really love to have them actually be Aspects of the gangs.
 
a couple of my wedding photos ^^^^^
 
:O
Aw heck. Congratulations again!
 
2:54 PM
@doppelgreener thank you :-D
 
Congratulations!
 
Congratulations!!
 
@Adam @kviiri thank you!
 
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