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00:02
@BESW (or anyone else with Bubblegumshoe experience), does it make sense to have the same NPC be a Like to one PC and Hate to another PC? I'm trying to convert an adventure a friend of mine wrote in something else (he wants to know whether it works in BBGS), and it draws an additional source of drama from PC-NPC-PC triangles.
hey there @Trish
@Anaphory it actually makes perfect sense, likes are meant to represent a personal relationship or attitude with/towards a character
If one PC character has a friend who another PC character doesn't like, that isn't disallowed by the game at all
Maybe don't do that too often but when done in moderation a difference of opinion between PC's about an NPC can create drama that is good for the game
I don't recall if our group had a character that was a like for one PC but a hate for another, but we at least had one NPC we needed help from who someone had a hate with, I think.
It worked out beautifully as I recall
00:25
Thank you! That sounds good.
Also, because you asked about that I want to point out that likes can be sorta one sided. My character in our bubblegumshoe game has an NPC who likes her even though she kinda looks down on him
It's only a 1 point like, and it was made during play as a plot point
She really dislikes him but could probably get him to help with something if she could actually bring herself to ask for that from him
00:55
We had one NPC who Liked to gossip with a Sleuth, but Hated another Sleuth because they used to be friends but now he thinks the Sleuth "sold out."
Ah yes OK
I didn't remember exactly how that web was made
Honestly relationship webs in this game are hard to keep track of
I don't know how much of that is me and how much of it is the game
01:43
Jimmy Olsen.
But also Laura Ryan, who thinks Marco is a bad influence on Andrew.
It's good to see that web. Too bad we don't have much opportunity to use it
02:44
"Amon", a demon from the lavishly-illustrated 1844 "Dictionnaire Infernal", a guide to demons, in today's linkfest: http://clivethompson.net/2017/10/25/1388/
02:58
hey there @nitsua60
03:29
@Shalvenay hiya
@nitsua60 how're things going?
Okay. Need to grade. Need to sleep. Those are mutually-incompatible.
@nitsua60 indeed. btw: did you want to join in the playtesting effort for the mino-maze?
If I happen to be around when you run it I'll probably lurk--don't plan on me, though.
@nitsua60 ah, got it
04:33
@BESW well now I know where Blizz stole the name from
 
2 hours later…
06:30
@Shalvenay: Hi, are you there?
 
2 hours later…
08:51
@BESW That's quite a dense network.
yeah, that is what I meant that these webs get complicated
a lot of connections that feed into each other at points like that
@BESW or @trogdor, what's the legend for the colors?
all the yellows are definitely hates
seems like the pinks are loves and the greens are likes
Okay, what about the colors on the boxes/bubbles?
loves are reserved for higher numbers put into the relationship
@kviiri ah, all the blue ones are PC characters
I,... think the pink boxes are family and the teal are non-family NPCs?
I am not sure about that though
I was going to say that they corresponded to which NPC's showed up in any of our sessions yet,.... but at least one NPC doesn't correspond to that if it were the case
though one doesn't seem to be actual family for the pink boxes either
at least I don't think 'Bo Boy' Boyd is family to Marko
09:06
It's a nice knot anyway :)
the frustrating thing is that that particular color code is perfect except for him
and because you asked now I have to know XD
09:49
@kviiri Blue is youth, pink is adult. Dark blue is PC. Square is rich, oval is poor, rounded rectangle is middle class.
And yes, yellow is hate, purple is love, green is like.
10:12
Okay, cool
11:00
The first snow arrived here last night. I stood up on the roof for 40 minutes watching the snow front approach from the West. And now I'm feeling cold sitting inside.
Please thermoregulate me better, thermoregulation.
11:14
lol
@BESW ok, I did not know you had done quite so much labeling on that
or maybe I just forgot
11:26
@trogdor Yeah, if I didn't want to load so much info into the charts, it'd be easier to find a good program to make 'em.
Plot hook looking for a home: A wax museum's statue of Michael J. Fox turns into a wax werewolf.
Fox wax werewolf.
@BESW fair enough
though the color coding isn't as useful as it could be without a legend
not that it is bad to use it anyway
@ZwiQ seems like we're playing chat tag these days -- probably best we talk on the weekend?
 
2 hours later…
13:53
@Shalvenay @MikeQ I'm likely available tonight if we want to keep going on Shal's dungeon
 
2 hours later…
15:40
@Shalvenay: I work also on weekends, but I will try to login in from time to time.
16:00
I mostly run FATE based games but I have some players that still want to play a homegrown game but want more rules heavy stuff like GURPS. I think the GURPS premise, but the rules are little more complex than I want.

Is there a good generic system out there that is heavier than FATE but simpler than GURPS that someone suggests as a compromise between my 'power' players and me.
@ToddWCrone What sort of rules do you want?
@KorvinStarmast guess that rando deleted answer on my question prompted your edit. I was like, why is this being edited, thanks.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/44243/do-proficencies-with-one-thing-from-multiple-different-sources-stack/44244#44244
@ToddWCrone And what kind of game are you going to run?
Game undecided yet, likely post-apoc with magic, but homegrown. But two of my players like more rules and don't like FATE.
@kv
@kviiri I've used GURPS before and it was good but too much I think. I was hoping something that covers "everything" but with a simpler mechanic.
I've used Savage Worlds which is kinda in the middle but they don't like that either.
I personally don't believe that much in a single system covering everything, so I would recommend against it. I haven't tried out Fate myself but that's one case where I think it could work reasonably well, because the mechanics are fluid enough for players to bring in the tropes themselves.
16:07
They suggested GURPS.
@ToddWCrone I'm under the impression GURPS is rather "simulationist" which might not be appropriate for all kinds of game being pursued.
yeah, but one of my players, after a year of mostly FATE games, admitted he hates FATE
That's fair, I guess. But I'm still not following what kinds of games they actually do want.
More combat, more tactics, or just more rules or what?
yes, I'm mostly trying to appease their needs for more 'simulationist' rules but allowing free formed stuff and simpler mechanics
Just more rules...they want things defined for them I think.
they lean towards D20
Simulationism and simple mechanics don't tend to go hand-in-hand, I'm afraid.
16:09
I have other players cool with the flexibility of FATE
I might be quite wrong though, because my experience is rather limited :P
yeah, I know...I just want something a little less heavy than GURPS
maybe a 3d6 + skill + modifiers to a target
where skills, advantage and disadvantages are well defined
Well, you could try something D20 based indeed. Dungeons and Dragons and derivatives are quite good for tactical combat. As long as your players are not of the kind that is bothered by the fact that wounds are healed by a long rest.
the 3d6 skill, to roll under, and the skill being Easy/Average... etc. along with point costs is too much for me
yeah, I hate D20 ;-)
did it for a million years...but once I discovered other systems without inflationary levels/hps, I don't like going back
If you want a different approach to a more narrative-focused game, Apocalypse World is already post-apo with low magic (the psychic maelstrom). It's a bad fit for tactical combat, but good for some power-tripping and character exploration.
16:13
ok
yeah, I have that
It's my favorite system, personally, but well, whether it counts as "more rules" or "less rules" depends very heavily on who's asking :)
@ToddWCrone I dislike the level inflation in DnDs as well, but you could maybe use L6 or something for that if that's the main concern?
(disclaimer: I have never played L6 myself)
The basic concept is that characters level normally to Level 6 and after that they won't gain further levels but just feats.
I guess you could put that as the characters peaking at "heroes of earthly legend" rather than demigods or so.
yeah, although I get annoyed with hp by about level 3...at level 5 I'm done
any place I can get apocalypse world preview for free or something?
What did you like/dislike about Savage Worlds, if you don't mind me asking?
16:19
drivethrurpg it costs $15
I liked Savage Worlds for a while..but it was on my way to less rules and landed on FATE
@ToddWCrone They used to distribute the 1e pdf (basically the GM's handbook) for free some time ago, when 2e was coming out.
26
Q: What's the difference between Apocalypse World 1e and 2e?

BESWThe second edition of Apocalypse World was recently released, and I'm unclear what's significantly different about it from the first edition. I've even been told it's substantively identical, by someone who was nonetheless very excited about 2e. The Kickstarter says, "You'll see a couple of obvi...

Savage Worlds is ok, but these players have used it and didn't suggest it...
It should be noted having to do with 1e is not problematic.
@ToddWCrone I didn't like it much personally, either - we played it in the form of Deadlands: Reloaded and found that it had more rules detracting from rather than supporting the experience we sought.
I used it for War of the Dead and it was a pleasant change from GURPS and D20 for us, but lost something over time for me
@ToddWCrone They have this link on the Apocalypse World homepage, try it: apocalypse-world.com/previews/AW1E.zip
16:22
cool thanks!
The thing with Apocalypse World is, it's a very simple system but in a certain sense rather rules-heavy. The playbooks and move sheets promise the players lots of stuff upon successful rolls, and a GM experienced elsewhere might have to get used to the players pulling off seemingly impossible stuff by rolling well.
It's designed for cinematics and fulfilling the tropes in post-apocalyptic fiction like Mad Max way more than being realistic or challenging.
ok, thanks gotta go for now...ttyl
Take care!
16:51
@ToddWCrone Playbooks – which form essentially the entire player side of the game – are available online: apocalypse-world.com/ApocalypseWorldBasicRefbook2ndEd.pdf
17:10
2
Q: What types of questions are not allowed?

Oblivious SageThere are some common types of questions that aren't allowed, usually ones that violate the Don't Ask guidelines in ways that aren't readily apparent to new members. We should have a canonical list (maybe even an faq!) of these question types for easy reference.

17:38
@JoshuaAslanSmith what happned was another question came up that was a dupe of yours, and then doppel did an edit, and then I think I edited that edit ...
Glad to be of such service as one can. :)
Took me some searching to find which question/answer I thought this question was a dupe of.
 
3 hours later…
20:39
@NautArch I'm swamped this week in terms of free time. As for continuation, maybe someone else can step in my place? I built a very weak character because I figured it was only for a one-shot, and don't really want to play as him again. But if someone else joined in my place, they would not have much catching up to do.
 
1 hour later…
21:57
@ZwiQ what would be a good time for you then?
22:29
hey there @Manner
also, hey as well @NautArch
23:17
What's up
not a whole lot, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :) as for you?
[wave]
23:42
howdy howdy @Shalvenay
@NautArch how're things going? heard you were up for wrapping up tonight -- I'd be down for that if you were willing to dual-wield characters ;)
oh lordy
i can probably do that if we have no one to take one up
i can postpone catching up on the new star trek show :)
oh hey there @MikeQ
Hey @Shalvenay, did you see my earlier message?
@MikeQ yeah, was kind of wondering if your appearance here meant your plans had changed?
23:46
No, sorry, I'm just taking a brief study break
@MikeQ ah
watcha studying @MikeQ
Computer networks and security. I work full-time (40+ hours/week) and have post-graduate courses on top of that.
hey there @nitsua60
@MikeQ woof. you are a busy human, sir.
23:58
Indeed. That's why scheduling a semi-regular tabletop game is so difficult.

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