@Ryan Tell the DM in private as soon as possible, make sure you include whether you 100% can't stand playing with the person or it's just a mild dislike.
I left the game the player was in to get away from the chaos. Told the DM of the new game just that without saying any specific names. Now the main cause of the chaos RVP'd for the game I joined
I wonder what your take would be on my AL group's inter-session communications. We have a group chat going called "stories in the night" which are meant to be things the characters (and NPCs, sometimes) chatted about during a meal or around a campfire. Everyone--including GM--just chimes in with whatever they want to write up. Things mentioned there might end up being really important, might be important only if the party decides to make something of it, or might be completely unimportant.
@Ryan I've got a specific definition of gossip I operate on that might be helpful for delineating the boundaries between good & bad here: discussion about a person that is at the expense of that person, and which diminishes peoples' view of that person.
All of us have rocky relationships with people, and do or don't get along for one reason or another. It is important for organisers of events to understand the people they're organising for and their dynamics. It is helpful for you, the GM, and the whole group, to notify the GM you do not get along with this person. You do not have to describe anything in depth, you can even say you'd rather not describe it further because it's personal and you don't want to gossip at that person's expense.
It would be a rude shock for the GM for one person to leave and for you to go "ok, I'm outtie, bye" or for things to start blowing up in their face with you both at the table. It is helpful and workable for everybody for you to just let the GM know in private sometime that it won't work for you or for the group to have both you and that person at the table.
@kviiri talks over others, says anything and everything that pops into his head usually in the form of a question slowing down gameplay dramatically, and no matter where his character is in the game he will try to take actions and talk as though he's in that room. Likewise he tries to do whatever pops into his head with items even if he had already said something that conflicts with it
@Ryan ...first I read that as "kviiri talks over others..." etc and was about to respond that you know me surprisingly well for a stranger on the Internet!
Hrm. I've also dealt with people who are unsavory before. I'll put to you a thought exercise: if a friend is going to walk over a pit, and they don't know it, would you tell them and warn them?
Likewise, if they are going to walk down an alleyway in which they will get assaulted, would you tell them and warn them?
The answers to both scenarios are probably yes. Individual people can present dangers to our physical, emotional, and mental health. Warning them when we can helps our friends stay out of harm's way. On the other hand, knowingly letting them walk unbeknownst into harm's way when we have every opportunity to speak up and say "don't do that" is tantamount to putting them in harm's way ourselves, because we knew and let them do it.
I consider it my responsibility to my friends to let them know if there might be an issue that suggests they shouldn't go near someone, such as in the case of an emotional abuser I've known before (like, seriously toxic, actually genuinely totally evil person and I wish I was kidding) and warned a few people away from getting suckered into that person's web of B/S.
The point is, you have an individual who exhibits a lot of disruptive traits that make groups unhappy. It would be virtuous to warn your GM about the behaviours you've seen to let them know what might be on their doorstep so they can avoid letting that into the game.
If you had an awful, terrible player on your metaphorical doorstep, and another player you know, wouldn't you prefer that player warns you? If you found out afterwards they knew, wouldn't you ask them "why didn't you tell me sooner?"
I've had a former housemate who completely destroyed what could have been an otherwise amicable living situation. The other housemates knew what this person was like, and didn't warn me. It was an awful decision on their part and they regretted it immensely.
They weren't happy living with this person either, they weren't happy seeing how I was suffering from this person (who actually stole from us, me especially), and it cost them me living there with them. I would have wanted that warning, and they said they regretted not giving it to me once they realised they ought to have.
@Ryan In not talking about that person you would probably enable them to ruin the game for everyone else. Ousting a bad individual is a large part of social health.
I'll say that I, as an AL GM, have appreciated when players come to me and say "you know, I really don't like $person. It's not going to stop me from coming, but you won't see me sitting next to them, either."
@Ryan I understand how you're feeling, I've had to take similar measures myself :<
Although we haven't had anyone as bad as you describe - the worst we have is one guy who started playing Hearthstone during a session of DL:RL where his character got a practically-incapacitating -3 wound penalty and hasn't stopped playing despite the campaign ending and us having switched to DnD 5e.
I've been a moderator on several places. I'm a moderator right here even. Where I'm not a moderator, I often wind up as a senior member of the community who people rely on to help caretake it. One of the things I do? I warn people about bad actors if I need to, and I see to it that bad actors get expelled from the situation. Everyone appreciates it. It is a good thing. It prevents social situations from turning into garbage fires.
I worded it somewhat like, "Hey the chaos I mentioned leaving the 1E game because of... it was actually this player that just RSPV'd for your game. He tends to talk over others and kinda do whatever. Might be better in yours as I think there were a number of other things enabling him in that game but thought you should be aware."
not verbatim but that was the general message I sent the DM
You're being too easy on the person and telling the GM the trouble player even sounds like a good idea to have around, so I think you're doing people a disservice there.
Be forthright, don't pussyfoot around warning people about the destructive situation they're getting into.
@doppelgreener right. I'm explicitly NOT inviting a few people I'm friends with to my game because I know that either A. they dont' get along with specific people that are playingor B. they're terrible players
@DForck42 yeah, doing so is a good thing for everyone. not all activities are for all people who could potentially participate in them. and even if they are, that doesn't mean all of them should do the activity together.
And even if some groups could potentially do the activity together, that doesn't mean they ought to or that you need to do anything to ensure they can or do.
The very first DnD party I was in had a little problem where one player kept showing up to sessions occasionally but being very disinterested in the game at all times. And our GM's careless policies did little to help (he is of the school that doesn't give absent players experience so the poor fellow constantly had an underpowered character)
But regardless, the guy was adamant that he wouldn't leave the campaign, when we carefully prodded him with "you don't have to come if you don't find this interesting, we can hang out and do something else some other time".
He hasn't been playing in years anymore, but in return, we have the Hearthstone guy :|
@kviiri we had a player that was VERY quiet, and it was very hard to really get her to do anything in character. we had to hold her hand, basically, and tell her what she was doing more or less. she would sometimes take initiative in a fight. that group stopped meeting for a while. when we restarted, we didn't invite her back because it just wasn't worth it
@DForck42 I feel a bit bad about it now, but I stopped inviting a close friend to play RPGs because two of his first characters were annoying special snowflakes that disturbed the game with their antics. The reason I feel bad about it is that I never figured out it's something that I could've simply talked through with him.
Shortly after that event he bought a pack of dogs. The DM wanted to know exactly what they were trained for Hunting, Guarding, War Dogs, etc. He said guard dogs. Then he proceeded to try to use them like they were trained for everything.... until he once again unleashed them in the middle of a dungeon and got all of them and one of the players killed.
@DForck42 Yeah. And I can sort of understand it, in retrospect. He's a creative person, and he needs outlets to show it - one such outlet being character design. But hogging the spotlight by having a character full of edges and gimmicks is inconsiderate towards the others.
Personally, I've deviated more and more towards the school of "create a slim personality at first and see where it evolves through gameplay", maybe I should give that to him as a guideline.
@nitsua60 I used to skip lunch on the days I wasn't feeling hungry at lunchtime. Kept my figure rather thin. Too bad it's also horrible for one's digestion! (and also, that missed lunch occasionally comes to haunt one at the least opportune time...)
@nitsua60 I presume that's separate to the normal mode of in-session narration, and it's well understood that things are of varying importance, am I right?
@doppelgreener Yup. It's assumed to be some misty other-time (i.e. these interactinos aren't necessarily happening in the same timeline as the "main" action), and the topics meander widely. It's as much players who want to engage might get some later-useful info as it is GM casting about for things the players bring which might be fun to hook back in to.
@nitsua60 Then that's fine. It's a fun group exercise with no, like, time pressure or anything. It's just a fun way for people to interact.
There's a big difference when you're running a game session.
The players are relying on you to describe everything available they should concern themselves with. You're providing the story, indicating paths available, and conveying their characters' senses to them. That's a lot of information and there's a reasonable expectation everything you convey will be important, because there's so much to do that there's no time or energy left over for unimportant things.
Right. I'd hope that classroom practice also helps me know when I've got to just let the players have a second to breathe/think. It's too easy to fire hose them.
@kviiri It's alright. It's fulfilling the goals i moved here for, but I miss Brisbane's weather and didn't understand until recently the effect London's weather has on me.
@GreySage I'm trying to build a character and I'm swamped in options. I know we're going Mythic, and I know I want to build some kind of unarmed acrobat but unarmed combat might be just as bad as in 3.5e and I have no idea.
Random question for the chat crew: I'm playing a lore bard, dnd5e, just leveled up to level 6 which means magical secrets. Any suggestions for must-have spells?
I would also recommend, from personal experience with irritability and stress, a morning cup of ginseng tea. It tastes kinda foul but it's weirdly effective at mood-brightening over time.
(Could just be that everything seems less awful if you can think "Well, at least I'm not drinking ginseng tea right now!" but apparently it even helps people who like the taste of the stuff.)
@B.S.Morganstein yeah, counter spell is HUGE. it can bump a nasty fight down to a significantly easier fight, but it also depends on how your DM works with you knowing which spell is being cast.
@B.S.Morganstein also depending on your party makeup and how well they are at setting you up, burning hands is also very flexible
@B.S.Morganstein counter and fireball are the traditional choices as said above. But aoe damage without concentration? Must have for a bard. Counter spell is fun, but it can start to annoy dms and then they'll counter with another to counter you and the fun is done.
Re: organic plot hooks, I ran a couple campaigns where PCs were members of an adventurer's guild. Every major town had a chapter house, and one of the services it offered was an "adventurers needed" board where people could put up reward posters, requests for armed escort, wanted posters, and so forth.
Anyone wanna pitch some story ideas for an avenue to multiclass rogue when the player wants it but the character doesn't have any reason for motivation?
The player wants to multiclass rogue but is asking me to help give her a storied reason, it's a one-on-one game, so I thought about the whole mentor trope
What kind of rogue, and what's the PC already got going?
In many classed RPGs, "rogue" is a very versatile skillset that can adapt to a wide variety of narratives; for example, it's often the closest you can come to Indiana Jones' skillset.
So we are about to start the campaign, and here's what I've got: The player goes into their first town, delivers trade goods from her father's farm and wants to repair her mother's old kama (fist weapons, she's tabaxi and thought claw weapons were awesome, so I'm going to play with that a bit), she goes to the blacksmith to repair
them but his hammer is missing, blah blah blah quest complete she comes back, the blacksmith gives her a place to stay while he's repairing her weapon, as soon as she steps outside someone steals her trinket (from the trinket table) given to her by her father
She chases the guy and eventually finds him face down unconscious and the potential mentor gives her her necklace back
This is where I'm stuck
Sec, let me find exactly what she said on what kind of thief
to explore unknown/scary regions, learn all the secrets, steal the ancient treasure, return to buyer and sell
Why does she need a mentor for that? Unless you're running with houserules requiring external training before allowing a levelup, can't it be learning-on-the-go?
Motive: she's a druid, studying unknown/scary regions is a reasonable extension of her mandate. Taking valuable (unnatural) things from those places to finance her future missions also seems reasonable.
I'd probably start with her just going out and trying it on her own. If she does well, it's a story about a self-teaching adventurer working things out on her own.
That actually just sews that problem right up, I need to not rush into the mentor thing, maybe even do that scene and have him give her a card or something to that extent where she can look him up if she needs help
And with the Kama being an exotic weapon (Or non-existent in 5e) that's something I can use to give reason to the mentor's interest in her
See with the childhood idol the best I could think of is her mother, she wrote a massive backstory XD
Side note: slow-paced introductory scenes are kinda traditional, but I've had great success with opening a campaign in the middle of a dramatic moment and fleshing out the "how did I get here" as we play.
Here's something I learned subconsciously and didn't codify until I had to help Troggy with a similar problem: If there's something you want to be sure happens, open the game with it as the inciting incident.
Anyways, the beginning of episode two will be about a 60 second description of the thief looking around, marking the weather, scenery, general population, seeing the character as a mark, and then stealing her necklace and back in
Right, which means at the beginning of episode 2, that's gonna happen
Even if it's not the end of the first episode, as long as I can make it fit and you know, she doesn't burn the town down or whatever
> You're standing outside the village inn, searching for signs of the thief who stole your necklace overnight. It's early morning, so you've got a few hours before your kama will be ready to pick up from the blacksmith.
(Skipped the "get me a hammer" side quest, it sounds like filler.)
RPGs aren't video games, you don't have to pad the playtime by doling out one plot point per thread. They're more like a TV serial, where multiple plots run concurrently and smash into each other: an overarching season/campaign plot, a few multi-episode arcs, and whatever the current episode's uniting concept is.
Whenever possible, have them bump together and tangle messily--partly because it's fun, partly to remind the audience/player/character of all the different stuff going on.
@Skathix Establish the stakes early. Let the audience/player know what they care about in the story and why: what's the current situation? What's wrong with it or why does it have to change? What will happen if it doesn't change?
Well here's what I've got, I let her detail her backstory and why she's leaving and although it's good and tight it doesn't leave me with much in the way of conflict which is why I'm struggling lol
She's leaving home because if she doesn't she will be married off and live a life of a farmer, which she doesn't want
I ran a campaign where the opening scene was "An unknown object is causing solar flares that will destroy modern life as we know it. The UN has asked the PCs' organization to be in charge of building and flying the spaceship to stop it."
The story is likely to be about finding at least one of those things, though various adventures that put her in different situations and give her different opportunities.
I'd be inclined to make a kind of hubworld campaign, where the village is the center of activity. She ventures out from it and returns to it. Each adventure changes her, and the village.
Based on what you've said and what I'm inferring from that about your general playstyle, you might want to take some cues from the West Marches structure.
@Skathix Go full Indiana Jones. She's hired as a freelance agent by a wizards' hall, to go into dangerous areas and acquire objects or information for study/containment.
