TRPG General Chat

Yuuki

6:01 PM

So it's a mock turtle monk?

DForck42

@Yuuki yes

Yuuki

Does it taste good in a soup?

DForck42

@Yuuki do you?

Yuuki

Mock Turtle

The Mock Turtle is a fictional character devised by Lewis Carroll from his popular book Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Its name is taken from a dish that was popular in the Victorian period, mock turtle soup. == Alice's Adventures in Wonderland == Then the Queen left off, quite out of breath, and said to Alice, "Have you seen the Mock Turtle yet?" "No," said Alice. "I don't even know what a Mock Turtle is." "It's the thing Mock Turtle Soup is made from", said the Queen. Carroll enjoyed such puns on Victorian fashions and etiquette, and showed this frequently. The description and drawing by...

Mock turtle soup

Mock turtle soup is an English soup that was created in the mid-18th century as a cheaper imitation of green turtle soup. It often uses brains and organ meats such as calf's head or a calf's foot to duplicate the texture and flavour of the original's turtle meat. Mrs. Fowle's Mock Turtle Soup: Take a large calf's head. Scald off the hair. Boil it until the horn is tender, then cut it into slices about the size of your finger, with as little lean as possible. Have ready three pints of good mutton or veal broth, put in it half a pint of Madeira wine, half a teaspoonful of thyme, pepper, a large...

DForck42

lol

shoulda known you were setting me up for something

GreySage

6:12 PM

@Yuuki Those ingredients sound quite disgusting. Calf horns and hooves...

Yuuki

Hooves and horns actually wouldn't be bad because they have a lot of cartilage. Obviously you have to cook them for a really long time but pig's foot is a pretty common ingredient in a lot of Southern food.

GreySage

@Yuuki My Chinese Step-mom cooks and eats pigfeet. I have not tried it yet.

Mike Q

So a mock turtle is analogous to a boneless chicken?

Yuuki

Well, not really. Boneless chicken meat typically doesn't have a lot of fat in it. Trotters (pig's feet) and parts with cartilage typically also have a lot of fat, which renders and imparts flavor.

As far as chickens go, the wing tips give a lot of flavor when you cook them down.

They're great for making stock.

Mike Q

6:27 PM

I meant in the sense of "It exists in food but not as a wild animal"

Yuuki

I think you mean "buffalo wings" then.

Well rather that it's a more appropriate analogy than boneless chicken.

Dehodson

6:49 PM

Hey all, I love the lore of D&D's outer planes. I'm currently running a 5e campaign, and WotC has not released a "Manual of the Planes" for this edition. (And I'm not sure they're planning on doing so?) Which previous version would have the most interoperability with 5e?

GreySage

@Dehodson If you mean in terms of style, flavour, and general mechanics, probably all of them

Unless you mean monster statistics

CTWind

I'm not 100% sure of this, but for the most part I think the planes themselves haven't changed much from edition to edition, though the cosmology of how they're related/positioned relative to each other and how you get from here to there has changed through the editions.

I don't know about the quality of any outer planes content specifically, but I know 4e had some good cosmology supplements in general- they had a really good Feywild book.

I assume you've read the 5e DMG's bits on the various planes?

Dehodson

@GreySage I guess monster statistics would be the big thing preventing interoperability then, which I can tune myself. The question then would be which of them is the best read

@CTWind Yeah, I read the DMG's information on the planes and it just left me wanting more! I've read a lot of writing online but an actual book on them would be nice to have.

GreySage

@Dehodson DnD 3.0 and 3.5 had a lot of planes material I know. I don't know titles of books but a quick google search should work.

CTWind

Looks like 4e has The Plane Above and Manual of the Planes that might be relevant, but I haven't read those ones myself.

GreySage

7:03 PM

If you are just looking for inspiration and don't mind non-DnD sources, the Pathfinder SRD is a good read.

Dehodson

All of those sound like good options, thanks @CTWind @GreySage

godskook

7:56 PM

@Dehodson Universally, I suspect 3.5 to be your best source edition for things not yet in 5e. As someone who doesn't play 5e but hears about it a lot on this stack, it reminds me FAR more of 3.5 than any other edition.

With 3.0 and PF being obvious addendums, PF for being the spiritual "next edition" of 3.5

DForck42

8:17 PM

@godskook what I think is funny is people that complain about 5e not having all the splat books that 3.5 has

but there's literally nothing stopping you from taking 3.5 content and updating it to 5e

save for the dm exnaying it

godskook

@DForck42 That'd...not be trivial, though. 5e's minimalism would take a bit of work to understand.

DForck42

@godskook yeah, I know, but there's plenty of content out there to adapt, people are just lazy

if I REALLY wanted a swordmage, I'd figure out how to make it work in 5e

it's also not hard to reskin things. we did a one-off where my fiancée played wonderful woman. she wanted a tiara that she could throw and return to her. we basically treated it like a dagger that would return to her.

godskook

@DForck42 "People are just lazy" is a tough accusation when the amount of time it'd take to realize the deficiency is trivial and the amount of time it'd take to adapt it is not.

DForck42

8:34 PM

I mean, I'm lazy and I don't wanna, but I also don't complain about "lack" with the system

i also don't miss taking hours just to build one character...

2

BESW

9:18 PM

Anybody get experience with Gumshoe in any form?

Yuuki

@BESW Every time I walk on campus. I'm glad that I graduated, that stuff is annoying to clean.

@DForck42 Paladins are basically swordmages.

They cast spells and they can make their weapons glow with magic deadly stuff.

People just get hung up on the name "paladin".

BESW

@Yuuki Haaaah.

trogdor

lol

BESW

@nitsua60 [wave] Mind giving my Spoil-Lair a warm woolly cuddle?

nitsua60

@BESW Done. Might want to air it out a bit, or at least open a window. It's been a while =)

Yuuki

9:27 PM

Don't forget to spray for mold.

trogdor

@godskook I would figure yeah

I don't always call it that because I was diagnosed like 3 times, and it feels like it was called something different every time :/

Yuuki

I really hope I'm not ruffling any feathers here, but how would that compare to deafness?

trogdor

@Yuuki uh, if you are asking me,... it doesn't really compare

Yuuki

I know that elements of the deaf community are speaking out against cochlear implants and I think I recall reading that the reasoning was that cochlear implants would eliminate "deaf culture".

BESW

For the context we're talking about (social stigma and responses), they actually map kinda closely, in that both deaf people and people on the spectrum often disagree with the prevailing attitude that they need to be "fixed."

trogdor

9:34 PM

ah

then yeah I would say it is a similar thing in that regard

I mean "fixing" me would require messing around with my brain

which is nooooot ok

I can't speak for deaf people though

Yuuki

Technically speaking, cochlear implants are machines that stimulate the cochlear nerve. Which is technically messing around with your brain.

trogdor

well then I would quite possibly take issue with that too then

so surprisingly similar in my oppinion

Yuuki

That leads me to thinking about what people traditionally consider "disabilities" and ethical remedies. What about prosthetic limbs?

CTWind

I'm in favor of cochlear implants. I don't envy my family that've had to make the choice of being spurned by 'deaf culture' to prevent someone from having a missing sense.

trogdor

@Yuuki welp I think that is more personal

Yuuki

9:38 PM

I know some recent technology is moving towards wiring prosthetics directly to nerves.

trogdor

I would probably want one if I actually lost a limb

Yuuki

@trogdor Well, the gist of it is that this is all deeply personal.

trogdor

@Yuuki yeah, but that changes the case every time doesn't it?

@CTWind I do think if someone has made that choice for themselves it isn't something they should be attacked for or anything

I just understand why some people would be upset by the very suggestion

CTWind

I mean yeah, I'm also not advocating mandatory implants :-p

trogdor

@CTWind yeah that would be messed up

Yuuki

9:41 PM

It does also bring up the question of "if we find autism being represented as a drawback insulting, should we also find deafness being represented as a drawback insulting as well?".

Or does that depend on the way it's being represented as a drawback?

trogdor

@Yuuki well, yes I think so

we make ramps for people in wheelchairs

I think most of the people in that situation appreciate the consideration

I am not in one though so,.... I don't have too much authority on that

DForck42

I don't have either deafness (although I DO have some hearing issues... should really get that checked out) nor am I on the spectrum. I think a lot of people with both of these conditions make it a part of who they are, and by having a "fix" or people trying to "fix" them, is telling them that they're broken and need to be fixed.

Yuuki

I guess the issue is that the "effects", for the lack of a better word, of autism are bit more nebulous than deafness.

DForck42

i think a good parallel for this is the mutant "cure" in x-men 3, where some were like "thank god gimme it!" while others were like "wait... but why? it's who you are!"

Yuuki

Deafness in 5e just means you can't hear and fail ability checks that require hearing.

Which makes sense because deafness is literally "you can't hear".

trogdor

9:44 PM

@Yuuki it is actually upsetting to have a diagnosis which is applied to a wide band of people with very different "symptoms" and have it all called the same thing and just slapping the label "spectrum" on it

Yuuki

Autism is a bit more... vague(?) and trying to ascribe certain concrete effects is more than definitely problematic.

trogdor

it's a little like if I started judging every different person with a different "disability" or "disorder"

@Yuuki yes

don't get me wrong, I think having been diagnosed as a kid lit a fire under my parents to work towards preparing me for the world in ways that I needed,...... but even on that same coin my mom keeps annoyingly trying to give me books on Autism

it's complicated,.... the way I feel about that

Yuuki

Hey man, free books. You could always burn them for warmth in a pinch.

GreySage

@Yuuki or build a fort

Yuuki

Or hrrrk use them as a knife rack.

trogdor

9:47 PM

to be fair, I have personally liked all the ones Temple Grandin wrote

but some of the others are not as useful/helpful/entertaining

Yuuki

WHYYYYYYYYY

trogdor

and the pure number of them is,... annoying

DForck42

@trogdor i think it's currently that way because we STILL don't have a great grasp on it. i have a niece that's been diagnosed with everything under the sun: ocd, add/adhd, odd (Oppositional defiant disorder), Dissociative identity disorder, autism, etc. etc.

Yuuki

Did you know that NBC (or was it ABC?) is making a series about a savant surgeon? I can't wait for the massive Internet explosion when the pilot releases.

trogdor

@DForck42 I think some of that is also error on the part of "diagnosing proffesionals" too

DForck42

9:50 PM

@trogdor reminds me of my parents dressing me in sweat pants and giving me dient mtn dew growing up because i was heavier set...

trogdor

I mentioned here before, I think, that I had a fourth diagnosis, but that one was ADHD or something

DForck42

@trogdor true the eff outta that

trogdor

I am quite certain in many ways that I do not in fact have ADHD

at least the Autism, Asbergers wtv spectrum it is called now has some merit

DForck42

@trogdor I'm fairly certain i have adult add/adhd

Yuuki

The Good Doctor (TV series)

The Good Doctor is an upcoming American medical-drama television series, developed by David Shore and Daniel Dae Kim, based on the 2013 South Korean series of the same name. The show is produced by Sony Pictures Television and ABC Studios, with Shore serving as showrunner. The series stars Freddie Highmore as Shaun Murphy, a young pediatric surgeon with autism and savant syndrome on San Jose St. Bonaventure Hospital. Antonia Thomas, Nicholas Gonzalez, Chuku Modu, Beau Garrett, Hill Harper, Richard Schiff, and Tamlyn Tomita also star in the show. The series received a put pilot commitment at ABC...

This will not end well.

trogdor

9:51 PM

and was backed three times too

Yuuki

I guarantee it.

trogdor

oh yay great

:/

BESW

@trogdor [sporfle] Nope.

Yuuki

Mike Q

@Yuuki Do not overestimate the quality threshold of popular American television.

DForck42

9:54 PM

@MikeQ yeah I'm pretty horrified by that

Yuuki

@MikeQ I know that it's hinted that Sheldon has some nebulous disorder, but do they ever outright say anything?

Mike Q

@Yuuki I don't watch the show because I have good taste, but I think it's been established that he has AS.

Yuuki

Because if not, you could always just look at it like he's eccentric and strange. Whereas The Good Doctor seems to be trying to sell itself on the "he's an autistic genius!" angle.

Mike Q

And everyone knows that the Autism/AS spectrum is endearing and cute, and therefore adding a laugh track makes a lovable and hilarious show. </sarcasm>

BESW

Aside from Adorkable Misogyny? No, but he's clearly not just "strange."

trogdor

9:59 PM

@BESW yeah exactly my point

thankfully even my parents didn't try to jump on that one

CTWind

Honestly, anything that tries to sell something on the principle of "Look, this show's starring someone who's (a) *!" has a strike against it from the beginning for me. Make 'em people, and make the show entertaining.

trogdor

though if they had I would have been reeeal mad

BESW

@Yuuki The creators say Sheldon's not on the spectrum, but the show pathologizes him quite aggressively.

Yuuki

> "Look, this show's starring someone who's had his hands replaced with chainsaws and fights various animals with lasers tied to their heads."

I dunno, man...

trogdor

@CTWind well, except if you give them really stereotyped or even real traits from people who have "thing" and then deny that you did so

I have not watched the Big Bang, but that is partly because I don't want to have to try to parse what they are doing with it

Yuuki

10:03 PM

Most of what I know about the Big Bang Theory comes from random clips that I see in passing, people talking rather loudly about why they hate it, and physics class.

Oh, not just in passing, I think I've watched a whole episode now and then because of waiting rooms.

GreySage

@Yuuki The Big Bang Theory gets a lot of flak, but it's really not any worse than any other sitcom. Granted it isn't any better either, but it still isn't as bad as most people make it out to be.

Mike Q

False! There are some very clever and well-written sitcoms out there.

Yuuki

@GreySage I think it gets a disproportionate amount of flak on sites like Reddit because the show is ostensibly about "nerds" and Reddit's userbase disproportionately considers itself "nerdy".

@MikeQ But he didn't say that well-written sitcoms don't exist?

Mike Q

@Yuuki I was trying to say that it is worse than some other sitcoms, i.e., there are existing sitcoms that are better (if not by comparison).

trogdor

@CTWind though I do basically agree with you on those points

Shalvenay

10:13 PM

hey there @Yuuki

trogdor

the only difference is: if the Big Bang Theory looks a lot like it has a steriotypically autistic person in it, and the show creators deny that that is even possible because they didn't intend to write it that way, that doesn't create a fun environment for me

it's a personal "are they making fun of me?" thing

even if it isn't what they are going for

and the worst case scenario is that they set an example that you can just wave away that kind of thing and not think too hard about it

which is dangerous precedent in my oppinion

Mike Q

What do you mean "wave away"?

trogdor

I mean, if the show creators have said "nope not possible" simply because they didn't intend to write the character that way

BESW

@MikeQ "Hey, your depiction of Sheldon is damaging to autistic people." "Oh, he's not autistic so your concerns are invalid."

trogdor

they are denying any possibility that they might have done so even unintentionally

therefore they are waving it away

BESW

10:27 PM

The article I linked above is very relephant.

trogdor

rather than saying at the very least "oops our bad"

which is woefully inadequate in my opinion but at least would acknowledge that something wrong could have been accidentally done

Mike Q

@BESW Does it address the relephant in the room?

BESW

It does!

trogdor

@BESW yeah this article is making a lot of the points that I would try to make regarding this for sure

I would argue that "labels" are not always only good

I get annoyed sometimes that I have this label hanging over my head from being diagnosed with something

but at the same time, that label has actually helped me, and did help my parents figure out how to help me with certain things

so it isn't to say they are only bad either

and as far as fictional characters go, yeah I agree that avoiding the label to avoid responsibility is downright damaging

I like the phrase near the end about people "with credentials but no shared experience"

that is exactly the way I feel about that thing

BESW

11:45 PM

@trogdor When you've got some time, I've finally codified my existing thoughts on the GS121 campaign and would like to run them past you.

Historical body mechanics: walking on the ball of the foot.

Transcript for