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Miniman
Miniman
12:32 AM
@CTWind Yeah, it's nice to see them actually clarifying something.
 
BESW
BESW
12:56 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
nitsua60
nitsua60
2:13 AM
@CTWind Ugh... he doubled down on that ridiculous Lucky+[dis]advantage ruling, though =(
 
Miniman
Miniman
@nitsua60 Yeah.. :(
At least the elves thing was good.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Clarifies it, certainly. And nice to see things like "this is what RAW says, also here's what the intent was."
 
Miniman
Miniman
Nah, they actually changed it.
Elves can now long rest in 4 hours.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Right, but the (new) thing is at least clear, not muddy like the old.
 
Miniman
Miniman
Yep!
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
2:39 AM
@KRyan Arrgggh. This answer was so darned good, sorry to see you delete it.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@KorvinStarmast Sadly, he probably won't ever see that :(
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@KorvinStarmast You can always post the now-gone question yourself--if you were intrigued/inspired by the answer to it, I'd say it's totally "legit" to pose the question--and I'm sure KRyan would be happy to post the answer again.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
I need to think whether or not it is in character for me to kvetch about American versus Metric units the way the OP did for part 2 of the question that got that great answer. Frankly, it isn't.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Just awarded two bounties. Noticed that I have given and received exactly the same amount of reputation from bounties.
(But that's a really skewed number, since >80% of my received come from one user who likes shedding rep. While I'm appreciative, I've encouraged them to look elsewhere next time.)
 
Miniman
Miniman
I've given out 6x as much rep as I've earned, wrt bounties.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
2:51 AM
Mine would be there, but for the 2K from that one user =)
Any real difference between Galaga and Space Invaders, or is one a copycat of the other?
 
BESW
BESW
One sounds funnier when Iron Man says it.
 
Powerdork
Powerdork
3:14 AM
@KorvinStarmast Passed it along. The user feels the answer isn't worth bringing back, from what I'm seeing.
 
KRyan
KRyan
@Powerdork eh, I'll correct that: if the question was asked, I would give that answer. Giving that answer when that question was tacked on to another question, I did expect to end up deleting it. And I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the question as a stand-alone, particularly since I can only surmise based on my visibility on the industry, not based on any statements by WotC or insider knowledge
anyway, good night folks
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@KRyan Night--thanks for dropping in!
 
Ben
Ben
3:32 AM
Does 5e use combat advantage? I.e. if 2 players surround a target (one in front and one behind), one, or both gain de kind of advantage to hit/damage?
 
Joel Harmon
Joel Harmon
it's an optional rule
but I believe it's also built in on rogues
as a sneak attack qualifier
DMG 251: Flanking
provides Advantage, @Ben
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
hey there @JoelHarmon
 
Joel Harmon
Joel Harmon
hey @Shalvenay
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@JoelHarmon how're things going?
 
Joel Harmon
Joel Harmon
Super busy recently. You?
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
3:49 AM
alright here, still waiting for Reibello to turn back up
 
Ben
Ben
4:01 AM
@JoelHarmon yeah, thought as much. I'm working on a "beginners dungeon" for 5e, to get some new players introduced to the game. Just thinking about what rules should be covered. As an optional rule, I might skip it.
 
Joel Harmon
Joel Harmon
@Ben I'd probably skip it, but give it if someone brings it up as a clever tactic
 
CTWind
CTWind
Yeah, the main arguments I usually see against it is that its actually fairly easy to flank, so it kinda weakens all the other things that grant advantage in the game. Older editions made it a bit more difficult due to attacks of opportunity going off on any movement within threat range, rather than just leaving threat range.
 
Ben
Ben
4:25 AM
Yeah. As always, reward cleverness :)
 
 
7 hours later…
NautArch
NautArch
11:27 AM
@nitsua60 I actually like that ruling.when the chips are down, that's when being lucky really matters.
 
BESW
BESW
11:45 AM
Tonight's dinner was hoagies stuffed with tuna, bell peppers, mushrooms, onions, and cheddar cheese.
 
trogdor
trogdor
nice
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
11:58 AM
@NautArch But... it says "if you really want to hit BBEG, lie down (prone) and then swing your sword. You'll get to choose from among 3 dice, not 2."
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 d'oh. Well, I don't mean to use it in a game the system type of way. That would be verboten at my table.
 
Ben
Ben
12:36 PM
@BESW I had beer, cold pizza, and more beer
 
Ben
Ben
12:48 PM
So... question
Handling a "scripted" PC death
Regardless of opinion of "right or wrong", or situation or anything like that. Say you wanted to script a PC death to show that arrogant mistakes = harsh consequences
How would you handle it?
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben telegraph it. explicitly.
 
Ben
Ben
As in?
Like..
"You have amaze a mistake, and now you're going to pay for it"?
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben no. as in: "If you rush in there, you will die" and then do not go back on it
do not just spring it on them that they have failed to live up to your standards. perhaps you two regard the game and the dangers differently.
 
Ben
Ben
One of my friends suggested that in this situation I should respond to their actions. I.e. "I run ahead"
"OK you see (X)"
"OK. I continue (recklessly - no trap checks etc)"
" ok. You're dead because (X) did (y), and exploded you into giblets"
 
Szega
Szega
1:04 PM
@Ben i would say: "OK you see (X), ready to blow you to bits if you get closer"
 
Ben
Ben
Well, in the situation I'm thinking of, the death is inevitable.
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben You still have to state it.
 
Ben
Ben
If I warn the player, they can choose to avoid it
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben That is the point, no? To get them to be less reckless.
Do not off a character for a different playstyle. Thats a metagame issue.
 
Ben
Ben
And even if I warn them, and it happens anyway, it kinda tells the players that "you're playing on my world, and I make the rules, regardless of how you decide to play"
 
Adam
Adam
1:06 PM
@Ben Is the player alright with the character dying? Do they want the character to die in some specific way? Or is this pure narrative?
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben No, it says: Things can be deadly, beware and proceed with caution.
 
Adam
Adam
Or is this a case of "If they go down this way, they will die. How do I handle letting them all know that?"
 
Ben
Ben
If I react to their actions, I see it as showing them that they need to understand that the world is dangerous, not the GM
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben But making the world dangerous is your choice as DM
 
Ben
Ben
@Adam yeah, that's the idea.
 
Szega
Szega
1:08 PM
@Ben You have to tell them that, they cannot read your mind
 
ACuriousMind
ACuriousMind
@Ben If they cannot choose to avoid it, then how is that showing that "arrogant mistaks = harsh consequences". If they didn't have a choice it's not a mistake.
 
Ben
Ben
@Szega yes. I am the one that made the world, I am the one that put that trap there, but I don't decide whether or not the player checks for hazards
 
Adam
Adam
@Szega Indeed. And not in an "in world" kind of way. I would tell the player with all seriousness that the path they are going down is potentially lethal to their character and they need to take care of themselves.
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben If they expect heroic fantasy, they might think: "There might be traps, but I am a tough (class), I can take it". Your world is more gritty, but that is a choice.
 
Adam
Adam
Even if the character wouldn't necessarily know that, offing a PC with some form of certainty is serious enough in my games to warrant breaking the immersion to make sure people don't get angry at the outcome.
 
Ben
Ben
1:11 PM
I think that's probably where I feel different. If I say "this way is hazardous", then it immediately conditions the players to react defensively, check for traps, etc.
When I don't say anything, they know the way is clear
 
NautArch
NautArch
BUt if you haven't made it clear to expect that sort of thing, it's somewhat unfair to the player.
 
ACuriousMind
ACuriousMind
@Ben What is the general expectation of your group with respect to character death?
Do they expect it to just happen sometimes, do they think it's a common event, or has it never happened before?
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben it immediately should condition - that is your opinion. You have an understanding of the word dangerous that they might lack
They might expect "3d6 damage, tops" where you mean "insta-death"
 
Ben
Ben
Well, I suppose the suggestion is coming from the fact that I am using this to show that the world is dangerous
 
Adam
Adam
@Ben Don't do that. Please please please I beg you don't do that. There are ways to get that point across without certainly killing anyone
 
Ben
Ben
1:14 PM
The situation I am applying it to would be for press characters, and new players.
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben Do not be afraid to be explicit. They will learn what you mean.
 
Ben
Ben
Preset*
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben Unless you set that expectation with a session zero, that's really rough way to show them and may turn people off
 
Ben
Ben
This is going to be in session 0.
I was thinking of doing it with an NPC, but players don't have the same reaction to NPC death than to PC death
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben If they are new, they will have NO IDEA how easy or difficult it is to die in the game. You have to be in agreement with them on that.
 
NautArch
NautArch
1:16 PM
@Ben session zero isn't actually gameplay (or it's not supposed to be)
 
Ben
Ben
I suppose the idea is kind of on two levels. One: make a dumb decision, like split the party, and you will likely die.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben If it's a true session zero, you can explain that to them without showing (because session zero is a discussion, not roleplaying)
if ou want to show rather than tell, then deifnitely use an NPC leeroy jenkins
 
Ben
Ben
Two: if you piss of the GM enough, it will also end badly
After doing it once, in session 0, I would not do it again, unless legit
 
ACuriousMind
ACuriousMind
So, uh, you're trying to force a PC death in the first session so they see what level of danger your world has?
 
Szega
Szega
Just tell them!
 
godskook
godskook
1:19 PM
@NautArch As I've seen session 0 explained, it certainly can contain "gameplay", but its of the "seeing how the party flows together" variety, and any combat in Session 0 should be somewhat trivial.
 
Ben
Ben
Because rp is meant to be fun, and constant death is not
But at the same time it can't be all sunshine and lollipops
@ACuriousMind not the world, but the game
 
Szega
Szega
Better than telling them: ask them how lethal they want the game to be.
 
ACuriousMind
ACuriousMind
@Ben Sooo...why not warn them explicitly, out of character, that mistakes cam have deadly consequences without a chance to correct them, and then only kill off characters in such "legit" situation?
 
Szega
Szega
What you described here is your preference
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega That's not always better.
 
Ben
Ben
1:21 PM
And I would state (depending on the system) that it's not always so easy
 
Szega
Szega
@godskook This is sess0, thats the whole point!
 
Ben
Ben
@Szega true
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega Then you have a much more restrictive view of Session 0 than I do.
 
Ben
Ben
OK. Let's take a step back. Ill explain in more detail, because I feel it may help
 
ACuriousMind
ACuriousMind
Didn't we have this session 0 discussion already yesterday? :P
 
Szega
Szega
1:23 PM
@godskook How is discussing gamestyle preferences restrictive?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@ACuriousMind echo echo echo
 
ACuriousMind
ACuriousMind
@Ben That's probably good, yes, I feel we all have slightly different ideas of what situation you are in and what you're trying to accomplish
 
godskook
godskook
That's...not an accurate parsing of what I just said.

"this is how you *MUST* do session 0" is restrictive on the definition of session 0.
 
Adam
Adam
I love this last line on this month's sage advice: "If you’ve already been enjoying these books, we recommend you pay attention only to the revisions that you think will enhance your enjoyment of the game."
I'm freaking digging how much WoTC is pushing "you all do you. Your DM has the final say, not us"
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam You mean that sarcastically?
 
Adam
Adam
1:26 PM
@Szega No. I'm dead serious
You can agree or disagree all you like, but I don't feel at all like Wizards is trying to undermine the DM at all with any of their rules clarifications for 5e.
 
Ben
Ben
So, the system: 5e. The setting: Diablo 1. The players: all new. The PCs: all prepared by me.
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam To me it sounds like: "We didn't bother to playtest it"
 
Adam
Adam
@Szega I disagree completely
 
Ben
Ben
The idea is that this is all about the game, the rules, the setting.
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega I can see how it sounds that way, but that does not seem to bear fruit in how 5e runs, from what I hear.
 
NautArch
NautArch
1:28 PM
@Ben all prepared by you? they didn't make their own characters?
 
Ben
Ben
I was planning on creating the dispensable character, then immediately replacing them after the inevitable death by mauling (or whatever)
@NautArch No. This is a preset game.
Purely about the rules, very little rp involved
 
Adam
Adam
@Ben If you're set on doing that, I suggest you make them the Butcher's victim. And then give them the "please listen to me" speech :p
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben out of curiosity, why don't you want the players to be able tomake their own characters?
 
Ben
Ben
@NautArch I think this may have had some impact on people's inupt
@Adam This is a good situational place to do this :P
 
Szega
Szega
@godskook The rules are there to (help) make the world consistent. If there are a thousand options, that's not helping.
@Ben Not on mine. Just offing them still sends the message: "I'll kill your character when I want to"
 
godskook
godskook
1:32 PM
@Szega I disagree. The DM is the one who makes the world consistent.
 
Ben
Ben
@NautArch It forces the setting. I don't want a Frumpy Bumpkin
 
Szega
Szega
@godskook But the rules support him in that
or should, at least...
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben okay. Personally, i would be much less invested in characters and therefore the world I didn't create, but if your players are okay with that, then it's fine :)
 
Ben
Ben
To also add to my setting, this game is meant to be a one-off
 
NautArch
NautArch
this is one of the problems i'm having with my current campaign. Because there is no character development, i feel like im just participating in the DMs story which is significantly less interesting.
 
Ben
Ben
1:34 PM
One dungeon, 6-7 sessions, then end-of-game
 
NautArch
NautArch
to the point where if my character dies, i just don't care.
 
Adam
Adam
@Szega n my experience, codified written rules carry so much impact, that it gives the players license to disagree with the DM when they make rulings. In systems where as much as possible is codified it, in some way, ends up restricting DMs since the players have license to stop the game and argue about the rules in the books. Especially when those rules are in player aimed resources, like a PHB.
 
Ben
Ben
@NautArch True.
But my feeling is that I want the players to be introduced to the game, not to character creation
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam This is an optimization problem. If the DM needs to make too many rulings, it becomes exponentially hard to keep everything consistent.
 
Adam
Adam
@Szega And I feel that 5e has enough core rules to keep things consistent, and gives the DM a good chunk of their power to flesh out the fringe cases and their own worlds however they like. If you disagree, that's fine. But I find that the system works for me.
 
Ben
Ben
1:37 PM
@Adam @Szega I agree with both of you on this. The DM is in charge, but the DM is also in charge of consistency
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben I love character creation and a session zero could allow them to create a character within the game and show them how those two things interact.
It's also a way to help them understand the rules as they design a character for your game.
 
Ben
Ben
@NautArch Yes... and no
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben sort of a "yes, this will work", "no that own't work because X...what about this?"
 
Adam
Adam
@NautArch I've had that issue too. But I also think that Char generation is really only fun if you already know how to do it. If these players are brand new, learning how to create a character is a pain. It's a lot of work for them to go through to get to the meat, and it isn't necessarily easy work
 
Ben
Ben
I personally find that when I create a character, I have no idea what to expect. I enjoy all of my characters, but only after I have played them in the world, and see how they react to it. The world is what affects my play, not my character.
That is a big part of what the GM does
 
NautArch
NautArch
1:39 PM
@Ben have you asked your players if they want to make their own? Or if they're okay with you making them?
 
Ben
Ben
@NautArch In this situation, they're all ok with premade characters
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam My players tend to find all the little things that need rulings. That might color my perception of this.
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega the rules should not, imho, hinder the DM, but imho, world-building is far more the responsibility of the DM than the rules, so if the rules are lacking in enabling that, that's not a failing of the rules imho.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Ben okay, then ignore all those statements I Just made :)
 
Ben
Ben
the only person that has played before is only in it for the social aspect anyway, and the rest want to play the game, not spend several hours creating characters
 
Szega
Szega
1:42 PM
@godskook the problem is that deciding (ruling) "spell A works this way" and "feature B does that" might clash and produce something unwanted. In this case these should not be left up to rulings. And i have encountered this in 5e. I can tolerate it, but it is not always comfortable.
 
Ben
Ben
@Szega If something doesn't work, or is unfair in one way or another, for sure. But my GM has twisted a rule or two (in a consistent manner - as in he'll change it slightly, then use that change throughout the game), to create a slightly different atmosphere
If something is game-breaking, or is twisted obviously to fit a situation, then yeah. That ruins things
 
Szega
Szega
@Ben You are free to change the game like that, but it is different to be expected to do that just to get the game going.
 
Ben
Ben
@Szega Yes.
And my way of handling this is "that was that game. This is a new game, so it's different"
 
Szega
Szega
Anyway, it is not so bad that I can't stomach it. But if they intend a rule to be optional, do not state that as an aside in a blog post(?), but put it in that chapter...
@Ben you missed my point. it is not about player buy-in
 
Ben
Ben
Ok..?
Care to elaborate?
 
Szega
Szega
1:54 PM
@Ben It is about the burden on the DM. Keeping rulings consistent is harder if you have to make many of them.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
@Ben I have a GM who twist some rule, and then forget he twisted it and at some point it has become the canonical rule. As he designed the game in the first place and there is no official manual players can't argue with it.
 
Szega
Szega
You lose the comfort of knowing that the rules are balanced.
 
Adam
Adam
Just because a rule is codified in print doesn't necessarily mean it's balanced
 
godskook
godskook
@AnneAunyme And the problem with that is what?
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
The standard pattern is that some players forgot one option, and at some point when I try to make a character that use it it isn't allowed anymore, because the GM forgot it existed
 
Szega
Szega
1:56 PM
@Adam But if it is not clarified, it is up to the DM to make it balanced.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
typically (it is a space opera rpg), to tinker with a spaceship's motors you could use Technology (a skill made to use devices) or Craft (a skill made to do instinctive hacks)
Technology being accessible to "science guys" and Craft to "intuitive guys" or "physical guys"
 
godskook
godskook
Balancing a game such that it works for even 100s of people of various skill levels and play-styles is obnoxiously hard. Balancing for millions is a feat they can't get quite right in games with *FAR* fewer options than D&D.

A singular DM only has to balance for 4-5 people at a time. His problem space is *MUCH* smaller.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
so with this change of rules, now science guys can't overboost a motor anymore
which does not really feel right imo
 
Szega
Szega
@godskook deciding how a spell actually works is not dependent on skill level or playstyle
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega Yes, yes it is.
 
Adam
Adam
2:02 PM
@Szega Do you have a specific example of this kind of issue? I've yet to come across a spell in my games where we look at it and say "yup, the spell's text doesn't handle this. Guess I gotta make something up."
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
@Szega some spells that are overpowered for experienced players are just spells like others for beginners
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam Not off the top of my head. But polymorph is notoriously hard to interpret.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
or some require a certain degree of subtelty to be really useful
 
Szega
Szega
@AnneAunyme That is no reason to make it better/worse
what it does should be exact
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega You seem to be arguing somethign that condenses down to "D&D should not be D&D".
 
Szega
Szega
2:05 PM
@godskook I refuse to argue about what is D&D
 
godskook
godskook
@Szega Well, you just said it should be "exact"
 
Adam
Adam
@Szega In what way? It seems pretty cut and dry to me.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
for example take the healing spells. Most tables know that you can just buy a wand and go all day long without preparing those spells. Tables with not very inspired players will prepare many of them and may have a cleric that spend all his actions using them during fights. In that case you don't need to balance the really op cleric spells since they won't ever be used anyway.
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam Ok, lets try phantasmal force. Can you actually disbelieve it? Since you rationalze everything.
 
Adam
Adam
@Szega Yes you can, because the spell says that with a successful intelligence check, you realize it's an illusion and the spell ends.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
2:09 PM
or the spell that gives you a feat temporarily. As long as you don't use it to get Eldritch Legacy to get one spell of your choice as a spell-like it is just a good spell. If you start to abuse it it becomes stupidly powerful.
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam But why would the character make the check? That is an action. And he is unaware of the illusion's nature
@AnneAunyme I am talking about 5e. i do not know other editions enough to discuss them.
 
Anne Aunyme
Anne Aunyme
@Szega I don't know 5e enough, but I would be surprised to see the spell all perfectly balanced
 
Adam
Adam
Strictly RAW They make it because the spell says they can. There doesn't need to be any in world reason from that point of view. On a personal level, a PC would make it because you don't want to be a jerk to your friends and tell them they can't use an out that was given to them in the rules.
In world there are a number of options
It could be intuition: you analyze the situation believing it to be real and then realize that the illusion isn't real at that point.
 
Szega
Szega
The spell description is still in contradiction with itself
 
Adam
Adam
I don't think that it's a weakness of the spell to let you come up with a reason for why you can make the check. On that contrary I believe it empowers you and your characters to come up with flavorful reasons yourselves
I don't think so
Just because you believe something to be real, doesn't mean that you can't investigate it.
In the bridge example provided by the spell, you fall down the chasm, climb up, and then rationalize it as, for example, you slipping on one of the planks. You then investigate the bridge to attempt to find where you slipped, sparking the check and giving you a chance to realize that it's an illusion
 
Szega
Szega
2:20 PM
@Adam You are right on this. But what would trigger a check on a creature? If you fail to strike it, you just think it dodged.
 
Adam
Adam
You missed, so your character spends a turn investigating the creature to see if it can discern some pattern in its movement to make sure you don't miss next time. The fact that such a maneuver doesn't necessarily work on a real creature is irrelevant, it gives the player an in-world reason to make the check while maintaining the reality of the illusion to the creature
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam I do not like to support that style, even if it proves inevitable sometimes.
 
Adam
Adam
Anyway, if you don't like it, that's cool. And I do see where you are coming from. But my friends and I have a blast with it and I don't mind details like those too much.
 
Szega
Szega
@Adam Hey, I never said you should not have fun with it! I just disagree with a game design decision slightly.
 
Adam
Adam
I'm not saying you're saying that we shouldn't have fun with it. :p I'm just trying to let this conversation die in an amicable way
 
Szega
Szega
2:27 PM
On that we can agree. Lets leave this [shakes hand] :)
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
107
Q: How can DMs effectively telegraph specific dangers in D&D?

SevenSidedDieThere are some play-styles of D&D in which the spectre of player-character death is considered a feature of the game rather than a bug. For my own reasons (which aren't the point of the question), I see them as a feature especially in exploration-focused games (e.g., sandboxes, old-school dungeon...

gm-techniques dungeons-and-dragons character-death sandbox
(In case you haven't already seen it.)
@godskook I've used session 0 time this way, too. Like a tutorial. "Let's pretend your characters are trying to get into town after gates lock at twilight. Now let's pretend your characters hear a boy crying for help and see wolves have him treed. (Nothing that happens here will have persistent effects on game-canon.)"
@Szega (Probably polynomial, no?)
 
Szega
Szega
2:48 PM
@nitsua60 "Let's continue to continue, to pretend...", eh?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Szega "Mpw ;et
(sorry--new laptop, haven't calibrated to touch-typing yet.)
(Let's pretend that didn't happen.)
@Szega "Now let's pretend none of that happened. I mean, that it didn't happen even in pretend-space. Because of course it didn't happen."
 
Szega
Szega
@nitsua60 [checks totem to see whose pretend-space this is]
 
godskook
godskook
@nitsua60 See, if I ever ran a Session 0 with that stuff, it'd be canon(unless exception), but I'd softball consequences a bit.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@godskook That's fair. I've done it with the teenagers this way some times. They're very used to the idea of "playing a scene" in a game that isn't actually part of the narrative, but that just exists to teach some mechanic.
(And provide some setting-exposition, too.)
 
godskook
godskook
3:15 PM
@nitsua60 Yeah, I just love the Megaman X2 approach too much, in that regard.
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
What's the debate today?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@godskook Don't know it.
@MadMAxJr Ways of communicating to players in-world danger to characters.
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
3:32 PM
As a GM/DM, if the party is used to a certain degree of difficulty and I know it ramps up in the next scene/location, I give them a gentle warning. "There's a lot more risk here." "The encoutners ahead will be more challenging." And they usually take precaution.
If there is a huge knowledge gap due to a missed story point/clue, and they're on the verge of getting themselves killed, I occasionally give them a warning that failure could be costly, are you sure?
 
godskook
godskook
@nitsua60 It used to be held up as an example of great "tutorial" design. The tutorial was easy, not to long, and had zero consequences. Best of all, it didn't have any labels on it, telling you it was a tutorial, so most people thought it was just the first level.
 
GreySage
GreySage
4:22 PM
0
Q: In-game repercussions for a difficult character/player?

High Priestess of FedUp-ianityShort version: help me think of consequences for someone who has made it their mission to suck all the joy out of our fun campaign The novella version: I am playing with a D&D group that met online. Except for two of the players, the rest of us had not met before. Largely, we've been very lucky,...

dnd-5e problem-players
Reverse my-guy syndrome? "I shouldn't have to face the consequences of my actions, because my character wouldn't have done what I just did, so it is your fault for not stopping me".
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Szega with the sorcery point question, it may or may not be helpful to also state that a DM may not let you spend a whole day doing this (or your other adventurers).
 
 
1 hour later…
godskook
godskook
5:49 PM
> It is important to be completely honest with your players. Even if you have to lie to do it.
Oh, AngryGM, never change.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@godskook that makes my brain hurt
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
You know what, though--that guy's mentally prepared for parenting.
 
godskook
godskook
Isn't that true of all the best DMs?
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
.... Can I put down collapsible safety barriers to keep my players out of trouble?
 
GreySage
GreySage
Personally I find DMing much harder than parenting.
 
godskook
godskook
6:01 PM
@MadMAxJr You mean you don't already?
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
No desert until you eat your dinner and no loot without fighting my carefully prepared battle. >:|
 
GreySage
GreySage
When my children misbehave I can pick them up and put them in time-out, I can't really do that with my players
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
You can pick up their miniature and put them in a time out space of the dungeon.
Or an outside time space.
Instructions confusing, child now in time out in an extradimensional space.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@MadMAxJr Banishment
 
godskook
godskook
@NautArch You are not allowed to banish your actual children to the demi-plane of silence.
The sounds there are DEAFENING
 
NautArch
NautArch
6:06 PM
@godskook Hmm, so the sign I have on my son's door that reads "Demi-plane of silence" shouldn't be there?
 
godskook
godskook
@NautArch Well that's just inaccurate signage :P
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
Demi-plane of unsorted toys
 
NautArch
NautArch
@MadMAxJr Demi-plane of perler beads
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
For each round spent in the demi-plane of perler beads, your armor is at risk of becoming bedazzled.
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:07 PM
@MadMAxJr Thankfully I keep making that save.
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
I would kind of fear the perler bead elemental.
Rolling tidal wave of living beads.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@MadMAxJr fire only makes them stronger
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
You can stun them by criticizing their color bead choices.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@MadMAxJr Investigate to see if any part hasn't fully solidified and can be broken off
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
8:00 PM
Any mobile developers in the room?
 
CTWind
CTWind
I am, though I don't develop 'from scratch'; mostly use Unity.
 
GreySage
GreySage
@nitsua60 In theory I am, but not really
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
8:22 PM
(I didn't really have a question. I don't know why I asked.)
 
GreySage
GreySage
@nitsua60 o.O?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@GreySage Just installed Android Studio today and downloaded the requisite components to be able to emulate my kids' phones, and was struck by how much sheer disk space it must take to "be a developer."
 
GreySage
GreySage
IDEs are big. They also eat a lot of RAM
 
godskook
godskook
Android SDKs are not friendly.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@GreySage Yeah, I was shocked by the size.
@godskook How do you mean?
 
CTWind
CTWind
8:25 PM
Yeah. I have my personal repositories, small group repositories, virtual machine for remoting into work, all the tools I need for development... But it could be worse. I think my code takes up less space than all the save formats for artists. :-P
 
godskook
godskook
@nitsua60 My Android folder in AppData is 31.1GB on its own.
 
Szega
Szega
8:59 PM
@NautArch The querent specifically said 4 hours, which may even be ok, depending on circumstance. Althoughit is true: if I were the DM, I would make it so that his ability to do this is quite limited.
 
BESW
BESW
9:13 PM
 
trogdor
trogdor
nice
Ganesha is pretty neat
 
godskook
godskook
9:30 PM
Idk, that stuff is bananas, as far as I can tell.
 
trogdor
trogdor
9:42 PM
lol
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
9:53 PM
@godskook 7.4 here. Though, tbf, that's literally just having "hello world!"ed so far =)
Then another 4.3 for the two emulations....
 
NautArch
NautArch
10:20 PM
@Szega yeah, it they were gearing up for an expected big fight I might allow it, but otherwise... highly unlikely.
 
BESW
BESW
11:11 PM
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
11:29 PM
Looks like practical combat garb =)
 
BESW
BESW
At least it's not drafty.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Sooth.
Tbf, my recently-retired AL character has 9 fine gowns in her inventory. Everyone mocked me, carrying them around for months. Then we needed to meet up with a contact on a high-falutin' riverboat cruise/casino.
(I made the peanut gallery wear out-of-season colors.)
 
BESW
BESW
Revenge is a dish best served out of season.
 

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