TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:38

hey there @Forrestfire

Shalvenay

00:58

hey there @NautArch

NautArch

Howdy @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

NautArch

Not bad, just got back from a friend's bbq

What's up?

Shalvenay

fireworks @ the Cape will be right on time it seems (instead of a day early) -- yet another T-10 abort for SpX on the Intelsat launch

otherwise not much

NautArch

Canaveral?

Shalvenay

01:02

yes

NautArch

Nice! Weather here had turned around. Gorgeous day today and tonight. Hopefully continues for a nice day at the lake tomorrow.

Plans for tomorrow?

BESW

You are in a British garden. In front of you is a chapel. The kingfishers are peeling. The wind is waiting to talk.

Tweeted by GardensBritish on July 4, 2017 at 12:56 AM

Shalvenay

@NautArch not much

daze413

01:19

@NautArch Excellent weather here as well, UK-like-cloudy and cold, just as we like it... MMMmmmm...

Shalvenay

01:48

hey there @daze413, how're things going?

daze413

@Shalvenay hiya! went raiding yesternight, record-breaking yield on that run, 2 rare drops. Was a good run... Also gonna have a non-gaming night with the guys tonight, just chilling eating pizzas and all.

@Shalvenay What about on your end?

Shalvenay

alright over here

daze413

02:33

Also finished Horizon: Zero Dawn... the main quest is really good :D

BESW

02:43

Hooboy. That was too much coffee. [buzzes audibly]

I have a new microgame concept!

Mmmm...gas station sandwich roulette!

Tweeted by UrsulaV on July 4, 2017 at 2:47 AM

Ryan

Hey @BESW happy Fourth of July

BESW

Back atcha.

Ryan

Do they light fireworks and everything over there?

BESW

Yeah, but it's not as big as Liberation Day.

Liberation Day gets the big parade and all.

Ryan

never heard of it, which is kinda sad. Just glancing at the Wiki it seems like a very strange thing to celebrate

BESW

02:52

It's the celebration of the end of the Japanese occupation during WWII.

...that Wiki article seriously underplays the occupation. [face/palm]

Ryan

I was reading Wiki: Battle of Guam (1944)

trogdor

03:20

yeah you can't drive much of anywhere on Liberation Day

@Ryan it is a pretty good thing to celebrate not being murdered in your own homes anymore to be honest

there were lots of people being killed and such for practically no reason, especially the further in to the occupation it got

Ben

05:36

So, not to undermine the answers provided on my question about negating GM interventions, but I feel that the gist is just "It doesn't say so, so I don't see why not"

kviiri

Well, there is a general rule that intrusions can be bought off, and no specific rule to the contrary.

Ben

It is a "It doesn't say otherwise" type of situation. I'm personally feeling like I want some kind of expert opinion, but I'm not sure how easy that is going to be obtained, or whether it's really necessary.

kviiri

05:54

@Ben No it's not. There's a general rule that does say intrusions can be bought off.

Barring an explicit exception to this rule elsewhere in the rules, it's a good interpretation that the rule is in effect at all other times. Not necessarily RAI, but if not so, it's an error in the book and not in the answers.

Ben

To me that just doesn't seem balanced though. I can choose to refuse a general intrusion, however if I roll a 1, that's a "critical fail", and giving the GM a free, irrefutable intrusion does make sense.

>If a character rolls a 1 on a die, the GM can intrude
without giving the character any XP.

It would make sense then that the Intrusion happens, regardless.

My reasoning for this excessively "defiant" (for wont of a better word) behaviour towards people telling me otherwise is that if I go to my GM and tell him "the rules are actually (xyz)", he'll say "prove it"

Then depending on how the group feels about it, we can decide whether or not we want to play the rules as intended, or continue as we were.

kviiri

06:13

It would strike me as odd if they simply forgot to mention that you can reroll natural ones or negate resulting GM intrusions.

But I'm afraid, barring developer commentary for or against, that's the level most rule answers get. Many rules authors prefer to keep their work as simple as possible.

Ben

@kviiri The way we play it (and how he has always played it) is that you can spend the XP to re-roll. However, the intrusion still happens. So if you re-roll, and then roll another 1, he gets another intrusion.

kviiri

Is that a houserule? I guess if you play it like that, it sort of makes sense intrusions can't be bought off.

Anyway, as a non-expert on Numenera, I would guess there's no better answer to be had. Most questions in the form "Can I do X while Y?" seem to go this way: "yes, because you can do X and there is no exception for Y."

In general, not Numenera in particular.

Maybe you should ask a different question: given your group's way of playing natural fails, does it unbalance the game if you allow intrusions stemming from them to be bought off?

Ben

@kviiri Well, again, that's what I'm trying to find out.

kviiri

@Ben No, I mean the re-rolling part.

Your question doesn't address the issue of re-rolling to avoid the intrusion at all, although one of the answers does. Doesn't mean the answer's version of re-rolling is correct, of course.

Ben

06:35

Oh right.

kviiri

I've found answers quite commonly become slightly less-accurate as they start veering off the main topic of the question :)

Ben

Well I've added that to the answer. It shouldn't contradict the answers, just hopefully invite more clarification as to why why they are what they are

kviiri

I think it's worth it's own question. Then again, I might be a bit biased to wish more non-DnD system content on this site :P

Ben

18 hours ago, by nitsua60

@Szega It'd certainly be nice to see some more ~~non D&D~~ Numenera questions up there and, knowing nothing of the system, it seems like a valid question.

You appear to be on the same side of a different coin

@kviiri But that is valid. It is relevant to the previous question, but it might be worth it's own. Perhaps see how others feel

kviiri

@Ben I'm actually just writing a meta regarding our site's heavy emphasis on DnD questions. Stay tuned!

Ben

06:50

@kviiri [programs the channel into my car stereo]

BESW

07:13

27

Q: How do we get more questions about things besides D&D 4e?

So recently there was a negative blog post about RPG.SE. One negative blog post isn't a big deal perhaps, but I think it raises a good point. Okay! Ahhh...see here...D&D 4.0, D&D 4.0, D&D 4.0...Dogs in the Vin- no...D&D 4.0, D&D 4.0, D&D 4-- AHA! Call of Cthu-- no, that's got plenty of ans...

kviiri

> My point was: Everybody's talkin' 'bout stuff I can't talk about.

That's pretty much I fear is going on right now.

(from Dr Rotwang's answer)

BESW

The site has always had more D&D questions than anything else, and that's unlikely to change. However, we can work to increase the number of non-D&D questions in a variety of ways.

eg:

It's still tiny, but one thing that I found really cool was how our the-dark-eye exploded this year! :D We had 6 new questions, and a bunch of those were in the last few months. — the dark wanderer Apr 12 at 21:52

Ben

@kviiri This is similar on all sites really. The criteria for This question on Arqade Meta is slightly different, but the point is the same: you're always going to have niche questions. The comparison for D&D 4 v Gumshoe is very similar to Minecraft and Dark Souls (as I point out in my answer).

BESW

Graphic Design struggles to expand out of a technical questions about a handful of programs to talk more about actual design and layout considerations. Literature is hosting a monthly event with the goal of getting more questions about books from niches that the site doesn't cover yet.

The Oracle

0

Q: Dungeons and Dragons is dominating the site in terms of page views

Yesterday, in a bit of boredom, I wandered upon SEDE and wrote this query to see just how dominant is the Dungeons and Dragons scene on this site, using the metric of total page views - one that I find provides a good estimate on each post's total impact. The ratio of DnD question views to all q...

discussion game-systems

Ben

07:23

So perhaps the suggestion to host a similar "boosting" event for rpg.SE?

BESW

I try to keep my brain open for any questions I can ask about whatever new system I'm reading/using.

I've created a handful of new system tags that way.

kviiri

@BESW Yes, and I think we need to have an active discussion about whether we need to increase non-DnD content and how to do it.

BESW

It's a good conversation to have. I'm not sure much will come of it.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have it.

kviiri

@Ben The point here is not that there is niche questions, but that everything apart from a single popular family of games is niche. Except maybe system agnostics, because they're usually of interest to DnD players as well.

BESW

@kviiri System agnostic questions are often treated as not actually system agnostic, and even questions about low-visibility systems get assumed to be D&D-applicable.

kviiri

07:32

@BESW Nuts :< stuff like this makes me have bad feelings about DnD.

BESW

Maybe getting more eyes on non-D&D questions would help alleviate that, but realistically the way to get more pageviews on them is not to get D&D people to look at them.

It's to attract more new users who are interested in systems other than D&D.

kviiri

I agree somewhat, but at least I've gotten interested in many systems upon seeing interesting questions about them on the site. So there might be a long-term effect in having DnD people see other systems too!

BESW

Oh, I agree. I experienced exactly the same arc.

But interest in new game systems is predicated on some significant paradigm shifts and the real-life opportunity to experiment with them.

You can lead a user to indie-rpgs, but you can't make them have time and an interested group to play them.

kviiri

(on the other hand, promoting awareness of different RPG systems is not the site's purpose, so I think potential answers should steer clear of using this as their main solution)

BESW

Expanding the user base to include more diversity of experience will naturally lead to more exposure by individuals to different kinds of play.

kviiri

07:39

If promoting awareness just neatly happens to align with building a comprehensive knowledge bank of RPGs, then it's of course a different story ;)

@BESW Yep!

BESW

(eg, I've mentioned games like fate-core as inspiration for the content of D&D-specific answers.)

kviiri

I think having a system of the month or something like that might be an excellent start.

BESW

Some logistical wrinkles to that will include cost and ease of availability, and users' ability to get a game going with interested parties within the time frame.

A free-to-download one-shot, with a low page count, that uses dice they probably have on hand and is very flexible about the number of players, like Lasers & Feelings, would be more successful than an expensive print-only book several hundred pages long that's designed for extended campaign play (like Ki Khanga)--and if it doesn't work with a small number of players, or requires fancy dice...

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that the challenge will be more successful if, sadly, it limits itself to a relatively narrow set of options.

There's also issues of genre; suggest All Flesh Must Be Eaten, or I'm a Pretty Princess, or Hot Guys Making Out, and a number of people will back out just because of the game's topic.

kviiri

07:56

I was thinking more in terms of "hey, are you an expert of Totally Indie RPG Deluxe? It's your theme month and we'd like you to submit any cool questions and answers you never bothered to before!"

And the expert'd be like "Ooooh, hey, that is something I could do!"

BESW

(And yes, those are all Real Games. Even Hot Guys Making Out.)

kviiri

Neat!

Vyoma

08:47

I actually created a simple (non-DnD) RPG system to run it with a group who did not have any exposure to role-playing games. Even with the DnD Basic Starter set that is available for free, I found it easier to get things going on my own homebrew world/setting.

I did try to run a DnD campaign with one shots as a warm up to LMoP but it fizzled out. :(

It however means, I am a bit apprehensive in asking generic (non-DnD) question here. :P

kviiri

DnD is hard, on many levels, and many of those levels are not obvious except to veterans of dysfunctional DnD campaigns.

Miniman

@kviiri Equally, many of the ways in which it is hard are very difficult to understand for its veterans.

kviiri

@Miniman Yeah, I think the more I play DnD the simpler the rules stuff seem, but the more glaring the issues with conflicting expectations get.

daze413

@BESW The Qs for GoG are all pretty good! Too bad I can't playtest the proposed solution to the >7 players q

kviiri

It doesn't exactly help that after the entire party agrees that the gameplay isn't that fun anymore after five or so sessions of doing something wrong, they will still likely have five different and mutually contradictory solutions to the issues they're having. Someone will propose new rules, someone will propose less rules, someone will insist on the GM doing things more, someone will insist on the GM doing things less...

daze413

08:58

There is a proposed chat event with the purpose of getting more less-known RPGs be "tasted". It hasn't fallen through yet, but I suppose that could be a good way to boost the non-DnD presence

kviiri

@daze413 Went, read, upvoted.

daze413

We need. need. someone to organize it! haha

kviiri

I would like to do mini-presentations on tabletop systems I like. I think they'd mostly be wasted on this chat though, because the ones I know best are also probably fairly well known here.

Every now and then I monologue about Apocalypse World and someone actually seems interested, though!

BESW

I like getting new perspectives on systems even if I'm already familiar with them.

And I'm often surprised by who doesn't yet know of what system.

(Often it's me.)

kviiri

I would like to hear more of Fate. I read the rules twice or thrice over on a car trip but it didn't quite stick, and seeing it in action would probably work better.

BESW

09:07

TableTop: Wil Wheaton Plays FATE CORE w/ Felicia Day, John Rogers, & Ryan Macklin

►

eimyr

09:39

hello everyone

doppelgreener

09:55

Morning. :)

eimyr

hi!

Do you guys think After Adventures is a good name for a game? Should I keep it or look for an alternative?

RE: relevant context

Miniman

Totally irrelevant, but I need to rant: My ongoing play experience with Mass Effect: Andromeda. It solely consists, for me, of firing the game up, playing for half an hour, making one small yet crucial mistake, and losing every bit of progress I've made.

BESW

That sounds like a game I would burn to a disk just so I could break it.

Miniman

Honestly, even if they got over whatever insanity made them disable quicksave and implement an autosave that's somehow worse even than the original game, it would still be a mediocre game at best.

eimyr

@Miniman To me my experience with Andromeda was similar but a bit different. I'd fire it up, play for half an hour, become really excited and drawn by the exploration and activities and then some minor but significant detail, such as animation problems, terrible dialogue or oversimplified railroaded questline would jerk me straight out of the immersion, make me cringe and become instantly discouraged.

@Miniman ME: Andromeda is a good game done badly.

kviiri

10:07

By the way, happy Independence Day to the American chatizens!

2

Miniman

@eimyr There's definitely potential there, for sure. I like the idea in the class/skill system particularly.

eimyr

@Miniman Well, it was a good idea, but they killed it with 3-skills-at-once rubbish.

Miniman

@eimyr I'm happy ignoring that, personally.

eimyr

You wouldn't be if you were very particular about your builds.

Miniman

For me, it suffers more from the compulsive need to add as much meaningless, boring, repetitive content as possible in order to be an "open world" game. As if that was something to aspire to.

kviiri

10:09

@eimyr Was it you who linked that Angry article about a time system in DnD to me? It was really cool.

eimyr

Say, I'm playing a sniper archetype. I want to use Tactical Cloak (because obviously), I'd like Barricade, Turret, Pull, Overload, Invasion, Grenade and Singularity to be available at moment's notice, situationally.

kviiri

(my party was skeptical about it though, they're really uneasy whenever they perceive anything restricting the GM in any way)

eimyr

@kviiri I probably wouldn't link Angry articles, but it might have been me without realising. I doubt it, though. Unless it was many months ago.

kviiri

@eimyr I guess it wasn't you then. I remember you were in the conversation.

I don't like Angry's style of writing much, but the idea was good.

eimyr

@kviiri I feel very strongly about restricting the GM though. I think I manager to gush and rant about it in PbtA context not long ago

(I'm in support of restricting the GM as much as possible/necessary)

Miniman

10:13

@eimyr Sorry, are we talking about the same thing? The "profiles"?

kviiri

@eimyr Funny thing is, I agree here, even though for the longest time I thought a liberally used GM fiat was necessary for a fun game and can only be a positive thing (assuming a good GM, of course).

@eimyr Years later, I still haven't met a GM who used GM fiat consistently well, and don't trust myself to do so either, all while seeing more and more examples of good frameworks and limitations that make GM'ing easier.

4

eimyr

@Miniman well, I suppose so. I want to have many skills available to me at moments notice. I like builds which allow me to address a variety of situations with flexibility. I like the idea of profiles and associated skills, but the implementation that disables all ongoing effects and puts everything on cooldown is an egregious mistake.

Miniman

@eimyr Ah, right. For me, profiles represent something very different.

eimyr

@Miniman The profiles themselves are really cool, I have to say. Cooler than ME:1-3 classes

Miniman

Essentially, I'm playing a vanguard. I'm not going to touch any of the other profiles. However, when I want to try an infiltrator, I'll be able to try out the full infiltrator experience without playing through this (frankly) tedious game again as an infiltrator.

eimyr

10:18

infiltrator SUCKS BIG TIME, and I know what I'm saying because I played it. It's not underpowered, it's not lacking in utility, but it's NOT FUN

Miniman

:(

eimyr

it would be if you could have more than 3 skills at a time though

what 3 skills go for Vanguard? Charge, Nova, Shockwave?

Miniman

If I ever get far enough in the game, I'll let you know.

But my assumption would be that Charge + Nova is all you need, and you can happily skip Nova.

eimyr

when I played Vanguard in ME3 I always preceded Charge with Pull, for an explosion, I'd also want Annihilation always on and Barrier for sticky situations. I'd also appreciate Fortification (If it's available in ME:A) etc etc

Well, if I'd be inclined to go weapons-heavy build, indeed, maybe that's enough, but it would make for dull play IMHO

Miniman

In ME3, you could get cooldowns low enough to just charge all the time, if you wanted.

eimyr

10:22

Yeah, though I always thought it's a bit cheap

charge-bang-charge-bang is not my kind of shoes

Miniman

And it makes for boring play, too.

kviiri

@eimyr This is something I'd wish game designers would remember: when I ask for some option X to be supported, it being strategically viable doesn't cut it. It must also be enjoyable to play!

Miniman

The more I played it, the more I came to realise how much better balanced the multiplayer was than the singleplayer.

kviiri

I'm looking at you, Pacifists in Stellaris.

eimyr

@Miniman in ME3 I played a Sentinel with Lash. I used Overload->Lash->throw combos for most things but still had plenty of kit to deal with armor and I usually kept Javik by my side to use Dark Channel. Combo-heavy build and an amazing experience all the way to Insanity.

@kviiri I'm looking at your Dishonored. "Here's this awesome magical assassin kit that allows you to murder everyone in a variety of cool ways. If you do, however, you get the bad ending."

kviiri

10:31

@eimyr Yeah, I hate it when games give me all sorts of cool options and then pressure me not to ever use them.

eimyr

So do you guys think After Adventures is a good name for a game, or should I look for a replacement? (relevant context)

Miniman

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the room there.

eimyr

I just did! :P

but one has an opinion (which is unusual on the internet)

BESW

I suppose Party On, Dudes would be courting IP infringement.

eimyr

copyright of what exactly?

BESW

10:42

Not copyright, but it's a reference to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure which might get some unwelcome attention.

kviiri

Afterparty would be an excellent name.

eimyr

@kviiri I think it's a great pun but it might be a bit misleading to the uninitiated

nwp

the whole idea of after adventure makes no sense if you don't know about adventuring

eimyr

@nwp Of course it doesn't. What I meant is: let's say you're an RPG fan doing a cursory research of new game releases. You see "Afterparty" and you think "oh, so it's about social situations in a modern world". I'm trying to avoid that.

Erik

I think it's clever when you know the game, but not immediately obvious what it's about if you don't.

Although I guessed in the right direction, based on your link.

eimyr

10:55

@Erik Is there a name you think is better than After Adventures?

nwp

I don't like how the title says what the game is not about. It expresses nicely that it is not about adventuring, but adventuring is fun and we're skipping it. Maybe it should be called "retirement management" phrased in a way to make it not sound lame.

eimyr

makes sense, I guess, that's a fair point

Other than that, the game isn't really about retired adventurers, it would be misguided. It's about regular-folks who saw adventuring as a means to improve their life and now realise that their proficiency at adventuring doesn't automatically make them into successful regular-folks.

Erik

Yeah, my first idea was "retiring adventurers" as well.

For some reason "The quest for a normal life" now popped into my head.

eimyr

so a regualr game would start with, let's say, a peasant, a foreigner and a university dropout who return from their "quest" with riches and stories... and no one cares.

Then they try to make a living for themselves, but they are still a peasant and a foreigner and lords and ladies definitely do not sympathise with their desire to rise above their station.

Occasionally they might run out of riches and/or reputation, forcing them to go back to adventuring briefly to gain more, but they would do so grudgingly.

Erik

Do you have any ideas for how these people will stick together? Without the adventure as a common goal, it seems like they'd drift apart rather quickly.

(I find it hard enough to get an actual adventuring party so stick together)

nwp

11:08

I have a hard time finding motivation for the game. Ordinary people doing ordinary things in a world that has so much more to offer just doesn't do it for me. There is no central conflict, no princess to save, no dragon to kill, nothing. The best I can achieve is having some dude die a bit later and more comfortably. I feel like I'm misunderstanding the game idea completely.

BESW

Yeah, sounds like it's not a game for your playstyle modes.

(I'm reminded of the ongoing video game community dialog about how "kill before you're killed" is such a dominant mode of play that it seems like many developers/companies/gamers consider it the medium's natural default.)

eimyr

@Erik yes, there's plenty to cover that. I won't go into detail but I'm not worried about it at all

Shalvenay

hey there @eimyr

eimyr

Hi!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

eimyr

11:23

@nwp I can word it in a trad-games way: it's a game about fighting the oppressive class-based society to recognise your past heroic deeds and merit.

kviiri

@doppelgreener Thanks for fixing my query!

Erik

11:45

@BESW yeah; it's both dominant and really easy. Survival/competition is such an easy thing to make people care.

And it works, too. I've played games that have different themes and it's much harder for them to stay interesting.

BESW

And yet, the game credited with kicking off the CD-ROM gaming era is Myst.

kviiri

I've yet to play it. Been on my to-do list for years.

BESW

I speculate that the reason it's easy to engage people with the dominant paradigm is that there's a lot of experiential learning and established schema to hook into, rather than anything inherent about the mode itself.

@kviiri Personally, I think the sequel Riven is the best of the franchise.

Myst is... well, you can see why it made a big splash at the time, but its puzzles are a bit arcane and arcade-y compared to how Riven integrated the puzzles with the worldbuilding and storytelling with success I've rarely seen elsewhere.

Erik

Yeah... I've heard a lot about Myst, but never cared enough to try it.

I really liked SpaceChem, but once I put it down, I'm less motivated to return to it than I am to the games that are more competitive. Possible just because it's hard and competitive games are easy, and I usually game when I'm tired, though.

kviiri

@BESW I see, thanks for the input. I've understood Myst doesn't have much of a plot, so it's worth it to just start out with Riven?

eimyr

11:52

@Shalvenay I'm good thanks! You?

BESW

Myst actually has a pretty intense plot... it's just fairly short and simple and is (and this is a sin of the entire Myst franchise) mostly buried in pages of in-game text.

Shalvenay

@eimyr alright

trogdor

@kviiri I would say so, I played Riven and only Riven

and I liked it a lot

even if I was a little frustrated sometimes about how I was supposed to figure out certain puzzles

BESW

You can play Riven before you play Myst (I did); it's a direct sequel that picks up immediately after Myst ends but the continuation is largely self-contained and you're given context for the rest.

Yeah, the puzzles can be frustrating. None of them are outright "I could never have figured that out" cheating, but they're not easy and require a lot of different kinds of thinking.

trogdor

@BESW my definition of that might be different from yours

that frog one was too much for me

BESW

11:55

There's one reason I think the frog one was reasonable; the visual clue connected with the eyeball.

trogdor

everything else I either did, or probably could have, eventually figured out

@BESW but the game never told me to worry about the eyes

not in that room anyway

BESW

The only reason you knew anything about the symbols was because of the eyes.

trogdor

yes but they eyes on that frog did not look like they were actually on the head of a frog

they looked like a fish

BESW

It was the symbol that gave me the most trouble too, yes.

trogdor

and you are literally on islands, so fish was not a strange thing to think of

BESW

11:59

Meanwhile, Myst has a maze that you will get forever lost in if you accidentally enter before you find the clues to navigating it.

Nice thing about Riven: you can always undo an action unless/until you hit a gated event (meaning your actions were correct). You never hit an actual dead end without it being forcibly telegraphed (and it's hard to do that accidentally). Myst was not so kind.

trogdor

I am glad Riven didn't penalize me for not knowing what I was doing

I feel like more puzzle games need to cut you that kind of slack,... because they are literally about floundering around till you actually get a clue

Riven was probably the most satisfying puzzle game I ever played

kviiri

One of my favorites is Gateway, by Legend. (based on the Frederik Pohl novel, loosely)

The universe is similar to the original novel: humans discover a derelict alien space station in our solar system, complete with a huge amount of small faster-than-light ships they're capable of operating by button mashing only. The station is refurbished for human habitation and prospectors are invited to try fly the ships in search of alien artifacts - and many die steering their ship into a star or something.

The player character is a prospector, and has to face the ships. But that's where the similarities end, I guess. The game is much more adventurous than the relatively psychological novel.

BESW

Heh. When I heard Metro 2033 was made into a video game I had such high hopes.

eimyr

@BESW did you not like it?

trogdor

@eimyr it was not what some of us expected having read the book

Secespitus

12:08

@BESW I recently played it and didn't really like it

eimyr

@trogdor the game wasn't really made for people who read the book

kviiri

Gateway has a really cool puzzle where the PC is at an arcade/casino and keeps winning every game. I won't say more of that to avoid spoilers, play to find out ;)

Secespitus

The book had a much better horror setting. The game was just "Watch out, there is half a dozen of those beasts coming right at you!"

trogdor

@eimyr this is fair,.... but that just makes my point XD

BESW

Mechanically and modally it's not the kind of game I like to play, and... yeah. I didn't last long enough to see how much they deviated from the novel, but there's no way they could've kept the novel's tone or themes beyond token nods.

Erik

12:09

The Metro book was strong horror? That seems to be really hard to capture in a game, in general.

BESW

And it would've been such an awesome game if it hadn't just used the book as setting inspiration. It could've been groundbreaking.

trogdor

@BESW I can tell you pretty much that it didn't go anywhere with anything in any direction I would have wanted

BESW

It was horror, yes, but that wasn't really the point.

eimyr

@BESW The game was a shooter. Following the source material more closely would require abandoning that core concept.

trogdor

I actually pretty much had to watch my brother play it because I both lost interest, and was not ok with personally putting up with the horror tropes they injected into the game

BESW

12:11

It was a fantasy travelogue in the tradition of Gulliver's Travels: a displaced outsider moving, often not of his own volition, between microsocieties that reflected different philosophies or ways of life, and learning common truths about human existence through their similarities and differences.

@eimyr Hence bringing it up in this conversation.

Erik

I can imagine they abandoned that when making it into a game... that's a very tough one to do well in a game

trogdor

to be fair, the ending of the book felt empty to me, like it could have ended differently or at least explored,.... some things further

Erik

Unless you make it into an MMO game and leverage other players to do it, but then you give up control over direction.

But it does sound like good material for a book.

eimyr

@trogdor That's the most Russian part of the book. The protagonist discovers the truth after he already acted and it's impossible to reverse the doom he unwittingly brought upon the world.

trogdor

@eimyr I am ok with that,.... but it ended so abruptly after that

ACuriousMind

12:14

@eimyr That's "Russian"? Also sounds like a classical tragedy to me ;)

BESW

The whole novel did feel very much like a modern continuation of classical Russian novels I've read, in tone and theme and execution.

trogdor

like,... it felt like it wasn't the end yet, for me

BESW

But yeah, there are plenty of solo "explore a society" games.

trogdor

or like it could have been the same ending but handled with,.... some other approach that made it feel less like the story was just being dropped

Secespitus

@trogdor Well there are two more books from the author. 2034 is acceptable and 2035 was absolutely boring

trogdor

12:16

@Secespitus I have heard about the second one at least, never got around to picking it up

partly I was just afraid it would not live up to the first one at all

eimyr

@ACuriousMind I think there's a certain fondness in Russian culture sphere for such tales, classical or not, both in historical and modern contexts. Back me up or strike me down, @Magician ?

Secespitus

It doesn't

trogdor

didn't even realize there was a third one

@Secespitus oh fair enough

XD

Secespitus

@trogdor No need to read it, believe me

eimyr

@Secespitus There are more books from the Author and a huge torrent of books in the same universe by other authors.

doppelgreener

12:17

@kviiri All in a day's work, thoughtful citizen.

(You're welcome!)

Secespitus

@eimyr I know about the other books in the universe, but I believe there are only three from him in that universe and another trilogy in a similar universe, but I haven't read them

BESW

...hey, does anybody remember a mid-2000s RPG for the original Xbox, about magic dueling in a post-apocalyptic base?

trogdor

boy do I,..... not remember anything like that

eimyr

@Secespitus My GF has them all. She's a big fan.

Erik

I don't remember any such thing from that short description. But if it was relatively well known I might know it if I have some more info.

doppelgreener

12:21

@BESW .... Halo?

eimyr

@BESW was it available on PC at all?

trogdor

@doppelgreener that was not an RPG,..... was it?

doppelgreener

@trogdor i'm not being serious ;)

trogdor

@doppelgreener I was hoping so XP

BESW

A friend picked it up in a bargain bin 2004-ish. You did quests for a tiny post-apocalyptic commune to unlock or empower spells and abilities like teleporting, throwing fire, mucking with gravity, etc., and as you did more quests the commune grew and changed. I never got very far in the story, we mostly just dueled each other.

It had a vaguely anime-esque art style, I think.

Lots of unnecessary belts and improbable hair.

kviiri

12:26

I must be going now. Washing carpets today!

BESW

ttfn

Erik

Doesn't really ring a bell, sorry :(

BESW

[scrolls though List of Xbox games]

trogdor

@BESW did a lot of people also have like clockwork guns and swords and stuff?

BESW

Maybe I'll recognize the title. It was a weird two-word title that referenced something about the internal lore.

@trogdor I don't think so.... I think the only combat option I had was some kind of magic.

trogdor

12:30

ok

eimyr

@BESW Arx fatalis?

BESW

I think I found it. Checking gameplay videos.

trogdor

it sounds almost like a Final Fantasy game, but those would not have been on Xbox

BESW

Phantom Dust

Phantom Dust (ファントムダスト, Fantomu Dasuto) is a 2004 action strategy video game developed and published by Microsoft Game Studios for the Xbox console. The game was released in Japan on September 23, 2004 and in North America on March 15, 2005, licensed for release in the U.S. by Majesco Entertainment. Phantom Dust is an action/strategy game with elements of collectible card games. Taking place in a post-apocalyptic Earth, the unnamed player-character must interact with the few human outposts that remain, all who have suffered a form of amnesia, to understand what has happened to the planet. Throughout...

doppelgreener

Are you thinking of Magicka? (it came out on Xbox 360)

Oooh!

BESW

12:33

Definitely Phantom Dust.

trogdor

@doppelgreener good guess, can't believe I didn't think of that one

just based off of the description

besides like, the unnecessary belts thing anyway

BESW

BESW

12:50

Interesting that it's been revived for the newest Xbox and Windows.

trogdor

@BESW what rekindled your interest in it?

BESW

It came to mind in the context of our conversation about video games that focused on elements of society in a confined post-apocalyptic community.

trogdor

ah

BESW

And I had fun playing it with my friend, but it's been 13 years and I always had trouble remembering the name.

trogdor

this is fair

eimyr

12:57

Ithink this game was re-released on XBone

trogdor

I tend to remember music from games I really liked, and then can't remember for the life of me what game any individual piece came from

BESW

[reads game plot] ...they ripped that off of The Three Doctors.

@eimyr Free to Xbox One and Windows 10 as of the middle of May.

eimyr

Cool.

I'm sure never to play it, but I thought you meant to come back to ti

doppelgreener

@Miniman Whenever you're around, I've got a SEDE challenge for you: take this query and update it to find only users with exactly 1 badge (or with exclusively only the Autobiographer badge)

BESW

I doubt I have a machine that'll run it, but if Troggy's interested in dueling on it I can check.

I don't remember considering the single-player experience anything except a grind for dueling features.

Looks like the re-release eases up the grind, so that's attractive.

The story looks... refreshingly short and straightfoward, with a mandatory but not boring twist.

Miniman

13:06

@doppelgreener Exactly one badge.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Nice!! :)

Miniman

@doppelgreener Only the Autobiographer badge (ugh, that left join...)

Interestingly, they're not the same, which suggests one of them is probably wrong.

BESW

Nah, a number of folks leave that stuff blank.

Try searching "does not have Autobiographer" and see what comes up.

doppelgreener

I'm busy searching for profiles like this one

1 rep, no activity, 1 badge for filling out their profile, specifically so they can spam a website.

Miniman

@BESW The original query doppel linked (and therefore the ones I edited it to) was for users who have filled in their about me, so their one badge should always be the autobiographer badge.

Secespitus

13:12

@doppelgreener Wouldn't taking the tour also get you one badge?

doppelgreener

@Secespitus such users don't tend to take the tour.

BESW

How rude.

TableTop will be releasing the first of two episodes on Misspent Youth in a day or two.

(The second episode is about two weeks later.)

Miniman

Ok, so, the reason for the difference is that it's possible to have About Me blank but not null - presumably by editing it without saving anything in there, and not have the autobiographer badge.

BESW

Sounds like it's time to play that perennial favorite game, BUG! OR! FEATURE!?

Miniman

Just weird edge case, I think. I mean, they haven't filled out their About Me, so it's good that they're not getting a badge for whatever weird thing they did on the profile page.

BESW

13:25

Yes, we wouldn't want to go around giving out unmerited badgers.

Anne Aunyme

13:55

working on a game called "Daredevils&Dragsters", any ideas of skills the PCs could get? (skills are supposed to be non-numerical features you can apply to some rolls to get the equivalent of a DD5 advantage, for now I have things like "ignore affliction", "aim n' shoot", "make impression", "start on time", "drift expert"...

but they seem both too generic and too specific

BESW

14:14

I assume it's a Fast & Furious style game?

Magician

@eimyr You are correct - Russian culture is depressing as all hell.

BESW

You may want to check out The Rapid and the Righteous and Car Wizards‌.

Anne Aunyme

seems nice, thanks!

actually it's supposedly more focused on racing than fast & furious

so way less fight (a typical scenario starts during a race, and ends not long after it finishes)

more cartoonish and less movie-esque, too

Magician

Viktor Tsoi, founder of one of the most influential Russian rock bands, Kino, would have turned 55 recently, and I was listening to their records for the first time in a long while. Dear god, are they bleak. Not in a goth "our lives are misery" way, either. Just... inevitable doom. Here, "Star called the Sun" - translation in comments.

eimyr

14:30

@Magician I'm by no means an expert, but I've read some Kaganov, some Divov, some Glukhovsky, a bit of classics, plenty of folk tales etc. There was one golden thread through all of them.

BESW

@AnneAunyme Lessee if I've got anything... [searches RPG folders for "racing"]

There's cartoony stuff that doesn't have a specific racing vibe but might work...

Maybe even a wuxia hack.

Toon, of course, is the prototypical cartoon RPG.

Anne Aunyme

think "wacky races" but less cartoonish

Magician

@eimyr I haven't read that many modern Russian writers, you may have me beat there ;). Have you read Strugatsky brothers? The way their optimistic socialist sci-fi turns into a heavy existential.... I don't even know what. Hell, I was told even my writing gets this way.

BESW

@Magician A word that gets tossed around a lot in this context is "fatalism."

Magician

That is a fitting word, yes.

eimyr

14:40

@Magician I tried, but I think I stopped halfway through one of their books because of unrelated circumstances and never came back

but I think I'd enjoy their work

BESW

If you're ever in the mood for unnecessarily dense prose, Narrative and Freedom: The Shadows of Time by Gary Saul Morson, uses Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, and Chekhov, as primary examples in studying a particular set of relationships between the self, the world, and history, in part comparing those writers' themes to various forms of Russian self-identity. It's got some fascinating ideas about human identity and the way we think about our role in history, but the prose is a bit of a pretentious slog.

Magician

Their more popular stuff is very easy to read. Monday Begins on Friday, Hard to Be a God. Inhabited Island, Roadside Picnic (a vague inspiration for the STALKER games)

BESW

Sleep now. ttfn

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