TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

00:11

@BESW I think I am going to enter. I have a few days before July 4 to dream something up

Adeptus

00:24

Hi doppelrainbower!

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast hey there @KorvinStarmast

Shalvenay

00:51

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

hiya. What's up?

@doppelgreener File that under "things an engineer told me: true, but not really helpful."

Shalvenay

not a whole lot, thinking about how to pull off the "hobgoblin army marching through the elf lands on a relief mission as the elves got hit by $disaster" campaign idea -- thinking that the party might be a scouting party in two parts, and the disaster might be some sort of cyclone that blew salt inland and messed up crops and plants atop ruining the cities with high winds

nitsua60

@Miniman hmm... looks like mxy's done something with it. Does it still need care? (I mean, if querent's not a site member and doesn't go to the length of clicking "join this community," I'm not sure what more we should be doing?)

@Shalvenay What fun are you hoping to deliver to your players?

Puzzling out what'll help most?

Racing the clock as the army they're supporting marches inexorably on and they have to [insert task here] on a timeline?

Shalvenay

I think part of it is puzzling out what happened and how to help

in addition to the logistics of scouting a disaster-ravaged land

(encumbrance will definitely matter here)

Shalvenay

01:22

I also wonder what system to use?

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay what would you like to emphasize?

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon the logistics are definitely going to be a fairly strong note in the campaign

Joel Harmon

I have heard things about Torchbearer

Shalvenay

yeah, I have as well

Joel Harmon

as heavily involving inventory management, anyway

Shalvenay

01:24

yeah. not sure how well it'll support a campaign heavy on party-vs-environment conflict though as the party tries to make sense of what they're running into

Joel Harmon

What tone are you going for?

there's always Roll-For-Game, err, Shoes

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon serious but optimistic

daze413

01:44

In RFS, do you just trust your players to keep the tone of the game intact? I find that hard to do...

(Trust the players, I mean)

In a game where you can magically suddenly become a bear-all-along, it's pretty tough...

Shalvenay

yeah -- it's a silly game to begin with, so you expect silliness and the game just begats more

hey there btw @daze413

Joel Harmon

I couldn't say; I've never actually played RFS.

I have, however, played a good number of different RPGs, I know some probability, and I know the people I play with. It'd become a comedy pretty quickly.

daze413

@Shalvenay oi! How's it going?

Shalvenay

@daze413 alright here

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Hi shal, been playing hearthstone with son. He's teaching me strats and such

Shalvenay

01:50

@KorvinStarmast ah. how're things going otherwise?

daze413

@KorvinStarmast as a returning or new player?

or... current? player? (Idk why I assume you're new to the game)

Miniman

02:57

@nitsua60 Fair enough - just figured it was worth pointing out.

Shalvenay

03:32

hey there @Yuuki

Yuuki

Hello.

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Yuuki

03:46

All right, you?

Shalvenay

OK here

BESW

05:23

Parallel vs. Isolated System Mastery. A lot of good things to think about.

Magician

05:36

@BESW Interesting, and has some parallels (hah) to the stuff I'm about to post.

Magician

05:59

Bah, chat's RSS feed is taking too long.

I wrote another thing, musings on rules.

7

I've been trying to update the blog regularly, and it's a pain. Which is the point, I suppose.

BESW

I don't have a lot of brain right now, so I'll just reiterate that I think there's a lot of learning to be had from studying Old Man Henderson through various analytical lenses of system, design, playstyle, social dynamics, and so forth.

trogdor

06:47

@doppelgreener lol

doppelgreener

07:56

@Magician That's quite a good read. I don't think the illusionism in the wolf fight you described is so terrible, but I agree that rules provide structure. I want a certain kind of gaming experience and the right structure would encourage it.

BESW

@doppelgreener I think the catch is that the players thought they were making important choices which weren't actually important in the ways they thought, for entirely metagame reasons.

Magician

Yeah. It wasn't even an "oops, I misjudged the party and they one-shot my wolves, better double their hit points on the sly", that's at least somewhat acceptable bit of illusionism to me.

BESW

It's like... what if, after mastering all the Dark Souls tactics and reflexes, you discovered that winnings fights was actually keyed only to pressing the X button and everything else is just to keep you busy.

You still had fun learning and using the skills, but they didn't actually accomplish the things you thought they were accomplishing. They were just busywork while the game engine ticked down an unknown number of unknown variables.

doppelgreener

Yeah, that's a fine catch to point out. From a certain perspective, the fight with the wolves using illusionism that way was completely destructive to the structure. On the other hand, though, that perspective requires understanding the illusion -- it's like seeing how a magic trick is done, and now the disillusionment sets in.

If a wolf dies in the forest, does any player wail out if they never knew it never had HP to begin with?

BESW

And that gets to the question of GM/player communication and how much the GM's art should be treated as a magic trick performed for a gaping crowd.

Which, obviously, depends on group goals.

doppelgreener

08:07

Yup

If the expectation is "you will provide me with strictly rules-based experiences that, given sufficient usage of the rules and not narrative, I can overcome" then a no-HP rules fight violates that expectation.

BESW

Having played the Game Magician role for several years, I just find it too exhausting to maintain for the benefit I get from it.

doppelgreener

(which isn't to say that was Magician's expectation, necessarily)

BESW

I suspect the expectation was that their choices would influence the outcome in predictable ways modified by semi-random chance, possibly with extreme outliers being softened by GM fiat.

Instead their choices influenced the outcome either not at all, or in ways completely unpredictable to them.

Their empowerment mode was misdirected, if not removed.

doppelgreener

gosh. that's a really good way to frame it i didn't have available in my mental toolbox.

(now i'm thinking that's sorta connected to why people hate water levels so much)

BESW

It's.... okay, did you see Jupiter Ascending?

In that film, the character has a great deal of empowerment. The fate of the galaxy tips by her choices, large and small. But almost everyone around her is doing their best to keep her from having the information necessary for her to be able to predict the outcome of her choices.

She still makes the choices, and the choices still matter. But she has very little ability to control what influence her choices have.

The greatest moments of tension in the film come when she thinks she finally knows what effect her choices will have, while the audience knows she still doesn't.

doppelgreener

08:17

@BESW I think that's also why seeing puzzles like this annoys me

or, loosely connected to it anyway

they don't annoy me much but it gives me moments of "ugh, why do i even bother with puzzling.se"

@BESW I haven't, but now I'd like to. That sounds a bit like Tintin, the investigative reporter who actually is just always in the right place at the right time and rarely if ever uncovers any secrets through any means except happenstance.

BESW

@doppelgreener Jupiter Ascending got a lot of negative responses, and I can see why; it's near the Riddick Chronicles in terms of gloriously self-impressed spectacle. It has a little bit more meat than the Riddick films, but not much and you have to dig.

(Disclaimer: I love the Riddick franchise to bits.)

doppelgreener

I also love the Riddick franchise.

BESW

One of the interesting tensions in the Jupiter narrative is that its main character is a beautiful woman who is forcibly taken places more often than she travels of her own free will, by men who are vying for the influence she inherited rather than earned... but she's still a significantly empowered character whose choices matter deeply and the main thrust of the plot is driven by people trying to influence her decisions.

Superficially she's the Damsel in Distress ferried through the plot like a sexy McGuffin, and the source of her empowerment is her parentage--but unlike most Damsels or McGuffins, she wields the power rather than having it wielded on her behalf and the whole plot is about people trying to take it away from her so they can wield it on her behalf.

...also Channing Tatum is a dogman and Sean Bean is beeman.

doppelgreener

08:32

Cute.

trogdor

@BESW @doppelgreener I also like ze Riddicks

BESW

And in the end Tatum spoilers spoilers and everyone went "What is this fanfic crack doing on the big screen?!" and it was glorious.

doppelgreener

I'm going to avoid reading that spoiler but that makes me want to find out :)

trogdor

I have also never seen this Jupiter Ascending thing

BESW

I mean, don't get me wrong. It's silly, it's often stupid, but it's big and fun and messes with conventions in weird ways.

trogdor

08:40

I saw trailers for it at the time, I think (based off of the cover images I saw for googling it) and I thought it looked like a silly "Holywood is trying to break into the Sci Fi market with just big name actors and special effects and no actual meat" thing

BESW

(Kinda like how Riddick messes with conventions by refusing to give its main character any significant character arc at all through three (and a half) films and two video games.)

trogdor

I would not be against seeing it at some point now, but that was my opinion of it when it was coming out

@BESW but he is already a complete badass through all of that, what is there to arc? XD

doppelgreener

@BESW Riddick isn't there to have story, he's there to look cool and kick butt.

BESW

Yes.

Jupiter Ascending has character development, but it's... rather nonstandard.

And in structure and theme it's probably more like a Regency Romance than a scifi action flick.

I can totally see why a lot of people came away unsatisfied.

trogdor

@BESW the trailers conveyed the weird romance between multiple people thing more or less, and I thought it was just,.... the kind of thing I dislike in spades

BESW

08:45

Not gonna lie, it's not a film I'd go "oh, yeah, Troggy would like this!"

trogdor

ah fair enough then

you made it sound like it sorta made up for stuff

BESW

But you've surprised me before, and if this conversation has piqued your curiosity, then maybe so.

trogdor

I am interested in a story like that, but I can't promise I won't be frustrated by the story either

doppelgreener

There is a video which discusses the various factors which saw Bleach, once basically the #1 manga, have a sharp decline from grace followed by a sudden cancellation. One of the major factors is that the author only really cares about story insofar as it gives him a vessel in which he can draw really cool stuff. So he came up with this Soul Society story arc, which let him drew cool stuff, and it was awesome. And then the new arc starts... which follows almost the same structure.

The Fall of BLEACH: How it Happened

►

(Video just provided for those interested in watching & hearing more. It's 20 minutes and not necessary for this conversation.)

BESW

I'll see if I can rustle it up on Netflix or Hulu or something.

doppelgreener

08:48

@BESW Don't watch the anime. It's too full of filler in the arcs that matter.

trogdor

@doppelgreener I think he mean J A

BESW

Yeah.

doppelgreener

Oh right

BESW

Internet hiccoughed and delayed the post.

trogdor

@BESW I think it might not be high on our priority list, but I am willing to try watching it at some point

BESW

08:50

If Raycia hasn't seen it, she'd probably enjoy it.

...I wonder what I'd pair it with.

trogdor

it sounds like a hard thing to pair with stuff

doppelgreener

@BESW Pitch Black

trogdor

XD

hilarious pairing

BESW

ooh, @trogdor, Legion is on Hulu but expires in three days.

trogdor

oh

oh my

BESW

08:52

I know you weren't sure if you wanted to see it, but we could at least watch an episode or two so you can decide if I should track it down when it's next available.

doppelgreener

I recently went to rewatch part of Bleach, and was amazed by just how much filler there was. I eventually decided to start skipping through it, and I was eventually skipping half or 3/4 of most episodes because it was just "now let's cut to other people running around but still not getting anywhere or doing anything substantial" or "now let's cut to a comedy scene with absolutely no substance to it".

then they'd cut back to the original important arc the episode was about, but not long enough for anything of substance to happen before they cut away again.

How to pad out a 22 minute television episode with only 1-2 minutes of substance: do that, and don't forget to have a full 90 second intro theme and make sure the recap of the last episode lasts unnecessarily long until the 5 minute mark.

Szega

@doppelgreener I dropped the manga when I could read a chapter under 3 minutes or so

the anime way earlier

doppelgreener

@Szega about what point was that occurring?

was that after soul society, in the hueco mundo arc?

Szega

@doppelgreener I got to the point where that jahweh guy started doing random stuff

but lost most of my interest after hueco mundo

doppelgreener

@Szega sounds like after hueco mundo, which i never finished

Szega

08:57

@doppelgreener yeah its much later. As I said, it did not take much effort to read..

doppelgreener

that video talks a bit about how the comic was declining at that stage in ways that would have been connected to that

trogdor

@BESW we can give it a shot

good thing Saturday is tomorrow

BESW

Yesh.

doppelgreener

Fun thing about Bleach: during the middle of the arc following Soul Society, a significant and carefully built-up character vanishes after his first fight (which he survived) and never enters the story again. He got Launched.

trogdor

@doppelgreener X(

Szega

09:00

@doppelgreener who was that exactly?

doppelgreener

@Szega Grimmjow.

Szega

@doppelgreener Oh wow, now that you say it. And he had quite a fanbase too.

doppelgreener

Yeah!!

trogdor

@doppelgreener is that a term for a disapearing popular character?

doppelgreener

@trogdor If it isn't, I just coined it. :D

trogdor

09:02

ah

I have to admit not seeing much of Launch

all this time I kinda figured she was only supposed to be important for one episode as some strange kind of villain

I did think it was a cool idea, but I also was not quite that into DBZ and such

doppelgreener

For those unaware: Launch was a woman from the original non-Z Dragon Ball who would change between two alter egos whenever she sneezed. One of them was violent and could just suddenly have a weapon in her hands if she needed it. After enjoying several plot arcs, Launch's violent side holds up the entire group, robs them, and flies away into the sunset -- then never re-enters the story. The author apparently just genuinely totally forgot about her, and didn't realise for a very long time.

Honestly I would've liked to see Launch present during the Saiyan Saga.

trogdor

@doppelgreener oh, what a sad way for a character to go away

"whoops forgot they existed"

doppelgreener

@trogdor yeah D':

oh, yes, that too XD

trogdor

@doppelgreener oh jeez, I think this explains why my least favorite of anything I saw was Cell Saga

no wonder it felt like they were pulling things out of the hat for the first time,..... they were

doppelgreener

yup :(

BESW

10:32

Huh. The expensive wine-bottler I got in a package of Mac programs doesn't seem as effective as the free Porting Kit.

Dr R Dizzle

Is it a terrible idea to create "puzzles" for which I have no way of knowing how the PCs will try to solve it?

My brain says yes, but my gut says no.

doppelgreener

@DrRDizzle are we talking logic puzzles, or difficult circumstances?

Dr R Dizzle

@doppelgreener Kind of neither? Like, one of the things I was thinking was simply placing a lever that they need to pull on a tall ceiling. I have no idea how they're gonna get up there to pull it.

BESW

I usually start out a group with situations I know have multiple solutions, and see how they handle 'em.

With some groups I need to offer obvious hand-holds for situations, with others the only chance I have of even slowing them down is to invent situations I literally could not figure out a solution for myself.

Dr R Dizzle

I might ask to see what spells they all have, and base it off that. I they can do it no problem, it's probably not worth even asking them to do it.

BESW

10:47

Sometimes it's good to give 'em a "Oh, the people who created this obstacle thought they were really clever but you breezed through it like nothing because of how prepared/awesome/smart you are!" moment.

Pacing!

Dr R Dizzle

I'm thinking at the moment that there are three rooms in a tower that they need to get a key out of to unlock the final door, which is the "boss". The Adventurer's Guild slogan is "Only the bravest, only the smartest, only the strongest", and each of those doors is related to one part of the slogan. The bravest one I've got figured out, and the strongest one too, but the smartest one is what I'm struggling with.

I'd rather it were a challenge for them to be resourceful/inventive rather than just solving a riddle.

BESW

You could mechanize it as an encounter that uses mental rather than physical ability modifiers.

doppelgreener

11:05

that sounds appropriate

Dr R Dizzle

@BESW I don't understand.

BESW

Most encounters use Str or Dex to attack and deal damage, Con to defend or soak damage, right?

Dr R Dizzle

Yes.

BESW

Find some context (vision quest, Doctor Strange style astral projection, the Matrix) in which it makes sense to switch them out for Int, Cha, and Wis.

Dr R Dizzle

Oooooh, that sounds interesting.

BESW

11:10

If you want to get really fancy, take away their regular weapons and turn off regular spellcasting--and let them instead expend spell slots to conjure weapons (+ enhancement for each level of slot spent?) of thought and similar effects.

Re-arm themselves with sharp thoughts, and casters become effective physical combatants because they're using their best stats.

doppelgreener

Battle of wits!

BESW

Exactly.

doppelgreener

Do you have a mechanism in mind for what the non-casters int-dump-stat members should do, if anything? Would they sit out for sheer inability to even participate meaningfully?

oooh... i have an idea...

BESW

The casters can still hand the warriors weapons of thought, and the warriors have the feats and class bonuses to still be relatively effective.

doppelgreener

That could work. :)

BESW

11:15

A wizard still has lower base attack than a warrior.

doppelgreener

The thing I had in mind was that the "only the smartest" challenge could be the subject of attempted sabotage by an enemy. It would help to foreshadow that this kind of thing may be at stake, or that someone might be out to have them fail.

So, they enter the "only the smartest" challenge room, the casters sit down to participate in the challenge and are rendered oblivious of their physical surroundings -- and then someone sneaks into the room to attempt to assassinate them, only to find that a couple of the party members are still awake and alive. They now have to defend the incapacitated party members.

BESW

That'd be fun too.

doppelgreener

The casters' bodies can't leave the room because it would break the mental tether and kill them (and they're all warned of this as a condition of the trial), but the awake party members could at least move them around inside the room, which might have convenient pillars and statues and other obstacles to keep between their bodies and the would-be assassins.

The would-be assassins would want to take down all of the party members, but would settle for just killing the mental users so as to render the party incapable of passing the third challenge, so it's still just as important to keep the assassins from reaching those bodies as it is to just outright defeat them.

Dr R Dizzle

To be honest though, I was hoping to avoid a combat encounter because that's what the "Only the Strongest" and the final boss will be.

doppelgreener

The success condition would be either defeating the assassins, or at least defending the mental users' bodies until they complete the challenge and wake up -- because there's only 2-3 assassins, and they don't feel equipped to take on the full, awake party. (This is why they chose this challenge; they wanted to try to basically kill the party in their sleep.)

BESW

11:24

There's always a complex skill challenge.

Dr R Dizzle

@BESW You'll have to forgive me, I'm new to all this. What does that mean?

BESW

A complex skill challenge is a series of skill checks made to accomplish a goal. There's a number of ways to do it; in 4e I used Stalker0's modified skill challenge rules.

A simple structure would be to set a number of successes needed to win, and a number of failures which will forfeit the challenge. Get X successes before Y failures.

You can pre-determine what skills are applicable and whether any are extra easy or extra hard to use, or you can ask players to justify their skill choices on the fly.

You may rule that some resource, like spell slots or healing surges (are those still a thing in 4e?) can be expended for bonuses or re-rolls to represent extra effort.

[rummages for example]

Magician

5 stars, zero clicks registered from rpg.se. suspicious_dog.jpg

BESW

I may have clicked through from my RSS feed.

Dr R Dizzle

@BESW Ultimately, isn't the result far more down to luck than it is the players?

BESW

11:40

Well, that's where goblin dice come in: each roll of a d20 is so highly random that often one's modifiers barely count. But over many rolls one's modifiers nudge the bell curve higher.

That's why we don't resolve battle with 1d20 from each character involved either.

A skill challenge is a way to approximate the influence-over-time of character modifiers on the randomizer which we take for granted in battle, but with skill rolls instead.

I'm trying to find my old copy of the dead-raising skill challenge.

Dr R Dizzle

I'd be OK with something like that if I can figure out a way to include more player agency. Like an obstacle course with multiple paths, or something.

BESW

> Do Not Go Gently - Skill Challenge (complexity 3)

7 successes before 5 failures; Arcana, Heal, and Religion must all have contributed at least one success.

PREREQUISITE: The target's death must be no less recent than one minute per level at the start of the ritual, or it is the end of the first extended rest after the ritual last succeeded on the target; the target must have been in the Shadowfell at the time of death; the target and all participants must be in the Shadowfell for the duration of the ritual.

A bold skill gives an extra bonus to the roll if you expend a resource on it; once per round one player who doesn't think they have a good chance of winning (and so would otherwise be just giving a free failure) can roll against a lower difficulty as a helper to give someone else a bonus or re-roll later, and a helpful skill increases the effectiveness if that's what they roll; some skills can only be used after they've been unlocked by a high roll on another indicated skill.

That skill challenge was a fun way to kill off a character without actually stopping the adventure, but making it a bit more urgent that they finish quickly.

Dr R Dizzle

That does sound interesting.

BESW

11:57

You can also key interesting things off successes or failures.

I liked to combine skill challenges and combat encounters, where the combat was mostly to prevent the enemies from stopping the challenge, and failures and successes changed the combat conditions.

Like trying to dismantle an eldritch gateway, and failures let a new enemy come through it.

Or in a negotiation, a successful Insight check grants a bonus to everyone's Bluff and Diplomacy for the rest of the challenge... but a failed Insight check prevents that character from using it again.

After a few months, I got a lot more free-form and would ask the players to tell me what skills were reasonable and what benefits or drawbacks they'd have.

Oh, and sometimes instead of a failure quota, you can just have a second person/group vying to reach the goal number of successes first.

The Oracle

12:18

0

Q: Would this question about combat be closed as too broad or subjective?

There's no official sandbox for RPGSE, so I'm hoping it's cool to get my question refined here. I run a homebrewed D&D 5e campaign for two players. We're fairly heavily into the roleplay side of the game and really enjoy all the storytelling aspects. This is my first time DMing so we've tried a ...

discussion

doppelgreener

@BESW TIL there are special cold brew coffee jugs. I'm ordering one.

BESW

Yeah, w got a nifty pair of fruit infusion pitchers with tea infuser attachment for cheap, so one can be brewing while we drink the other one.

doppelgreener

fabulous :D

BESW

This thing, but two of them.

doppelgreener

12:46

@BESW looks super nice. most of the brewers i saw were very tall, which wasn't gonna work in my house setup, so i found a nice squat one.

eimyr

13:02

@doppelgreener Could you check channels please? I can fiddle with things depending on your response.

BESW

13:14

BTW, @eimyr: Neural networks can name guinea pigs.

eimyr

@BESW I saw that, it was on the top of my newsfeed for a good wheek.

@BESW Now I'm waiting for guinea pigs that can name neural networks.

doppelgreener

13:47

@eimyr better yet, a neural network powered by guinea pigs that names neural networks

eimyr

@doppelgreener I don't want any GPs hooked to wetware.

doppelgreener

14:25

@eimyr they're doing pulleys and nabbing food from the right places and stuff

eimyr

14:44

@doppelgreener That's better.

Amazing Guinea Pigs Tricks (with Twix and Lilo)

►

Adam

15:21

I always get a bit of a chuckle when I see comments like "I think he is looking for a way to explain the rules that make them seem more realistic." I get suspending different levels of disbelief. It's just amusing where different people draw the line between realistic and absurd in games where magic or hyper-advanced technology exist

NautArch

@Adam I like the "the 1-2 pages of background info on classes is too much to read." question

I made a frustrating mistake yesterday :(. I had updated my character sheet on my computer, but didn't print a new version because I was still undergoing exhaustion effects and tracking my spell/ability usage due to lack of long rest for 3 days.

I had leveled the session before, but didn't realize it for this one. Missed my increased proficiency and new spell slot :(

Adam

15:40

Level 5?

NautArch

13

got my 4th level paladin spells for maximum smite now. Kind of a bummer to hit that cap.

Adam

divine smite caps at 5d8 extra from spell slots, doesn't it?

NautArch

yup, plus the extra 1d8 for Improved Smite and another 1d8 if it's undead/fiend

And while I don't often get to use my Sentinel feat, when it is used, it's freaking amazing.

Spellcaster next to me cast Darkness and tried to move away. OA with disadvantage, hit, massive divine smite of 61 damage, forcing a Concentration save of DC 30 and he couldn't move away. OUr barbarian moved in next to finish him off.

Adam

But what I mean is that it sounds like you are reading it as (2d8+(1d8 * slot level - 1)) capped at 5d8. Whereas I read it as (2d8 + (1d8* slot level - 1 capped at 5d8))

But a quick look through sage advice tells me that you are correct. I learned something today

NautArch

@Adam my brain is a bit slow today :) Haha.

Simpllifying, it's the 4th level spell slot is the highest spell slot you can use for Divine Smite. You can still net the Improved Smite and the Undead/Fiend Bonuses.

Adam

15:57

Yes. Very strange that the 5th level spell slot doesn't add any extra damage. I would have assumed that it would.

NautArch

Yeah, it's a bummer, but i guess it's balanced with the additional extra attacks that fighters get.

except that it's a limited resource, but yeah.

i'll more likely use dimension door then a 4th level smite.

Yuuki

16:15

But what about 4th dimension smite?

godskook

16:44

@NautArch, now you're just reminding me of how much I want to see and/or create a 3.5 Martial that actually matches tier 1 casters.

The Oracle

17:35

0

Q: Deletion of a Q

I have posted a reasonable Q, in my opinion: one that presents a line of reasoning, backed by rules, and asks for validation. However, I would like it to be removed. It's currently on hold. The reason for removal is, I'm not willing to improve this Q to the standards of the Stack. As I have said...

discussion closed-questions deleted-questions

NautArch

17:57

@Yuuki Time Smites. Love it.

GreySage

@TheOracle Can you not delete your own questions?

NautArch

@GreySage was thinking the same thing. I think he may have wanted to make a statement?

Wibbs

@NautArch almost certainly

there's more than a hint of frustration in the way he's phrased the post

Adam

18:14

Honestly, I didn't think that question was opinion based. But it was rather difficult to parse what the issue was, and I'm not convinced it was fit for the site in the form I saw it. He had many observations of the rules, made some logical deductions based on those rules, and then gave the "this can't be right, can it?" appeal.

NautArch

@Adam the reason I VTC/Opinion was because any decisions on how to use those rules is opinion-based. The key qualifying word in the PHB/DMG is IF. DM decides IF, but all things equally, yes, you are a perception savant. Simpler system problems.

Is it me, or do a lot of recent questions seem to be heading towards @nitsua60 Fromagerie?

godskook

18:40

@NautArch, that's the nature of using objectivity as the standard of what is or isn't a good question. You inherently -build- upon previous answers over time, unto whatever end building answers can lead.

For Tabletop RPGs, that's cheese.

And its only amplified by the RIDGED position that no question can be a duplicate of any other question.

You just eventually run out of non-cheesy questions to ask.

SevenSidedDie

@GreySage Questions with (IIRC) at least one answer that has votes >0 can't be deleted by the question-asker.

Wibbs

@SevenSidedDie heh, that's a new one to me :)

NautArch

@Wibbs little bit of column A, little bit of Column B?

Wibbs

?

NautArch

frustration AND site requirements

SevenSidedDie

18:52

@Wibbs It's one of those little features that exist to prevent malicious destruction of content, because someone at some point used their author-delete powers for bad instead of good.

Wibbs

fairy nuff

SevenSidedDie

It's one of those “and this is why we can't have nice things”; nice things like someone wanting to delete their question in good faith, like markovchain did, being able to.

godskook

@NautArch, @SevenSidedDie, I added a video illustrating what I'm 95% certain the OP is trying to do in that illusion question, ROUGHLY speaking.

NautArch

@godskook Gotcha - that does clarify.

godskook

@NautArch, differences between his plan and that video at least includes that OP doesn't want to move his image once created.

godskook

19:41

Dear Pandora, I just listened to 5 ads, I should be able to skip a single song before you inflict another one on me.

nitsua60

20:03

@NautArch It's possible, but I'm on vacation with the fam, so am well out of the loop on recent questions. (Anyway, cheese would spoil so quickly in his tropical sun....)

Shalvenay

23:12

hey there @Thyzer

Thyzer

hi @Shalvenay :)

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Thyzer

Well, I am tired, it is 1:13 in the morning right here :P

How about you?

Shalvenay

OK here

Thyzer

Wasn't there a Meta-Post once about that you should only close duplicate questions when they are 1:1 the same? I feel it needs more attention

The close as duplicate votes in the review queues are mostly only related...

KorvinStarmast

23:22

Hi Shal

@Thyzer I have noticed this as well.

BESW

129

A: How should duplicate questions be handled?

In a nutshell: If a question is a duplicate of another question, flag or vote to close. When are two questions considered duplicates? According to Spolsky we should only close real dupes, and according to Atwood, there are three kinds of dupes: Cut-and-paste, Accidental duplicates, and Borderli...

A good rule of thumb is "Will the same answer work for both questions?"

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast hey there, how're things going?

Thyzer

@BESW but what is when question 1 asks about "can I use my reaction in my turn?" and question 2 asks about "can i counterspell a counterspell when I casted a non-cantrip spell?". While the answer of question 1 uses an example of counterspelling a counterspell on a selfcast spell... it is not a duplicate. The question is different and goes deeper (see my answer, it won't work on bonus action spells)

BESW

You can challenge a dupe closing with a Role-playing Games Meta post. I suggest you read my link and this article first so you can make the challenge from an informed position. And be sure to either challenge the specific question as not-a-dupe, or challenge the criteria for deciding if questions are dupes; trying to do both in one post has historically not been well received.

Creator of the greatest end of level bosses. https://t.co/zC0srEX4vr

Tweeted by Oniropolis on June 23, 2017 at 5:13 PM in reply to Oniropolis

trogdor

23:38

nice

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Sorry, afk, nature break

BESW

@doppelgreener, @JuneShores, @trogdor: I think this is relephant to my vision of the desired themes in a solarpunk RPG:

@leahmcelrath @MelissaJPeltier Our imaginations have been fertilized with superheroes rescuing society from itself. We need new narratives.

Tweeted by jlndesign on June 23, 2017 at 5:51 PM in reply to leahmcelrath

doppelgreener

that does seem relephant

trogdor

23:54

as in society needs to actually get up and save itself?

yeah seems fair

BESW

In other news, Australia:

I just discovered in a lovely PhD thesis by Markus Rissanen that Austrialian honeybees T. carbonaria make spiral ne… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/878175433090514944

Tweeted by philipcball on June 23, 2017 at 8:58 AM

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast np.

@KorvinStarmast now a good time for you to talk?

KorvinStarmast

Man, it's been a weird week. How has yours been?

I can talk for a little bit.

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast pretty good, actually

KorvinStarmast

Mama is taking on line driving course 'cos she got a speeding ticket last week.

tax spoiler room?

Shalvenay

23:58

@KorvinStarmast yes

KorvinStarmast

in

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