...I have just learned of Voyage of the Rock Aliens and must now seek it out to consume its power.

> A guitar-shaped spaceship and Robot 1359 (voiced by Peter Cullen), search the universe for the source of rock and roll music. He finds it on Earth. 1359 wakes the crew to visit the planet. A rocket telephone booth lands in the town of Speelburgh and ABCD (pronounced "Absid") (Tom Nolan) with his group of aliens exit. The humanoid aliens force robot 1359 to take the form of a fire hydrant.

Does Discord have a dice roller d2 to d100?

sorry, just figured out how discord works :/

Discord has no dice roller but the dice roller you give it. I'm pretty sure there are customisable dicebots you can install, but most of the ones I've seen are just part of some massively bloated package of random features.

hey there @daze413

the dicebot BESW and I use on his Discord works, well, sort of :) so yeah...

@Shalvenay which one? sidekick?

@daze413 no, a fairly generic one written in node.js

[rummages for link] It's called something very generic, which makes it hard to search for.

@Shalvenay I see. If it has you guys' stamps of approval, it's good enough for me :D

@BESW wasn't it called DiceBot?

(Gosh, I haven't even thought about Discord in months....)

@daze413 There's probably better ones, but gblosser42's Discord-Dice rolls a number of specialised dice including fudge dice, without any extra weird bloat.

(We were using it in a whistle-stop tour of different systems, so being able to roll unusual dice was a plus.)

@BESW this is also why i write all my work files in really long rambly filenames: "may income statement profit and loss PL P&L 2017"

so just in case I need to search: "may PL", or "may P&L" or "may income", it turns up :D

@daze413 Unfortunately, I learned my filename habits in the days of noticeably small character limits and have yet to completely unlearn that.

@BESW thank you for this! I'll get to downloading it when I get back home.

Fortunately, the OS X Spotlight search is good at searching for in-file text.

@BESW I often wish windows doesnt include results that hit only in in-file text :/ because of how I name my files. There must be a filter for that, though I havent really been motivated enough to search

In Spotlight, I can type quality:variable, like "name:may income" or "kind:presentation"

[pokes Internet]

@BESW in Soviet Russia, Internet pokes YOU!

sorry, bad meme, I know.

I've always been fond of the Russian Reversal.

Transpositional puns are a personal favourite.

it was a perfect statement to pull that though

@daze413 It might be possible to combine wildcard variables and the name: operator, but a lot of folks seem to prefer replacing the built-in Windows 10 search feature with a third-party feature like Everything Search or Locate32.

hello there @Oak

(The main stumbling block seems to be that the default Windows search feature is very literal-minded about variable orders; "name:*income*2017*" would probably work, but "name:*2017*income*" probably wouldn't. Also, it takes a lot of poking with a sharp stick to get the search to look in all the nooks and crannies of your file structure.)

@Shalvenay yo

what's up?

Frustrated by the fact that I can't spam users

@Shalvenay my increased use of a 'roomba' in a campaign i played last week. (We were drunk, sue me, the task was to help clean up an inn of a demon rat infestation, and the party's mage created some roomba-like thing to destroy the demon rats...)

(and no it was not my mage)

(DND-esque homebrews are fun arent they >.>)

@ThomasWard not quite as sophisticated as the one that lives on Just Read the Instructions I take it though?

lol. by far not quite as sophisticated.

though my chaos mage, still a thing in this campaign, decided to throw a little dark chaos magic into the thing, so now it spits fire at the things it wants to end.

but meh.

as i said, we were drunk

i'm surprised the DM went with it xD

hahaha

at least the Deck didn't get broken out, unlike P1k's drunk-DMing disaster this last weekend

I think the only time I've used the Deck, it was in a campaign where a half-dozen chance/luck flavored magic items could be combined to gain control of reality.

the odd thing is in this campaign my dark chaos mage can bend reality a little. Not in large scale, but can bend matter to make random holes in space every couple days to send the target to its death

but i think the "once every several days" part is the only reason the DM lets it happen...

things aside, this 'fire spitting chaos roomba' thing is likely to explode next session...

so... that should be fun.

For the final showdown, the PCs and the villains each had three of the items, and could use them to create massively random effects. (For which we would roll on the spell sheets: one die for wizard/cleric, one die for level, one die for which spell of that type at that level.)

@ThomasWard cues wildly malfunctioning robot noises

@Shalvenay *cues gravitational-anomaly-inducing-magical-vortex which makes the robot start to smoke and spin oddly in mid-air, before finally exploding in a blast that does 5 damage to everyone nearby - 5 crushing damage to my mage and the other one on the party, assuming we save ourselves with magical shields, 5 slashing damage to others nearby from shrapnel. 5 slashing if we fail the shield roll though.

BTW, @Magician, the week's Schlock Mercenary is getting very Eclipse Phase.

in any case, it's gonna be an interesting session next weekend.

@Oak whaddya mean?

@nitsua60 I, too, am frequently frustrated that I can't send you guys spam.

I'm not actually a big fan of spam, but my aunt used to fry a mean spam bacon.

@nitsua60 Well, I found questions in which I can offer a better answer, but those question are closed (or should be closed) so I don't wanna post there. At least I would have liked a way to send a private message to the questioner and answerer, but there's no way. And I agree that there shouldn't be a way - too open to spem. Just frustrating to see someone asking a question for which I know an answer, but have no ability to let them know.

Though to be honest most of those questions are old and the users are probably not around anymore

@Oak Which question?

@Oak oh, are you looking for ones where you might mention miupi in the answer?

@nitsua60 where it might be relevant, yes. But it seems they are all tool-recommendation so closed

I found rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/60357/… which is open... but I think that according to site rules it should be closed

@nitsua60 also my original goal was to search those questions to find competitors, not to add answers :-) but I found some relevant ones

And also found competitors, actually.

@Oak Yeah... it's closed now =)

yeah [tool-rec] was collateral damage from the [game-rec] debacle

@Oak Cool--good to see what others are up to!

@Oak I've got to say I really like how lightweight yours is.

which is mildly unfortunate, as my one [tool-rec] question got closed out before it ever got a good answer

(I haven't done a lot of software mapping, but I've poked at a half-dozen tools.)

@Shalvenay Why not rewrite it as a statement-of-problem question, to which a perfectly good answer might be "here's this thing that'll totally do wonders for ya!"

@nitsua60 Thanks! It's modeled after anamap. The point is that there are many editors with way more options and textures and non-grid placement and gazillion other stuff... but steep learning curve, and it then takes forever mapping, when all I want 99% of the time is a quick floorplan.

@Oak THe fact that you can "scribble" on yours is nice, IMO.

@nitsua60 you can scribble on mine? What do you mean by scribble?

@nitsua60 because the problem is unique to using random tool generation

@Shalvenay I fought in the game-rec war... PTSD from those words

and really requires a tool-based answer if you ask me -- I see no way to work around it by hand

@Oak Just hold down my mouse and wiggle around and get a non-rectangular result.

@Shalvenay The "I see no way to work around it" part is, IMO, where you might really benefit from Staxpertise =)

@nitsua60 Oh I see. Actually I do want to add "add rectangle" tool for quicker editing, but the free-hand wall tool is there to stay. Same with free-hand "shapes".

@Shalvenay The point is that if you describe a well-constrained problem and get six on-point well-described recommendation answers, nobody'll have a problem with it. But I guess I should get off that soapbox, since people with PTSD are in the room... =|

Hmm actually I can spam someone if they are active in chat! Hey @eimyr I made a better alternative to anamap if you're interested.

@nitsua60 hehe I fought in the losing side of the war. youtube.com/watch?v=N-uaFnp1rno

@Oak I like how you automatically insert landings in long staircases. </tease>

@nitsua60 didn't get it

You can send me a link to a map!

@Oak an elevation-change marker/feature would be nice.

mipui.net/app/index.html?mid=mmwqx7sn094&secret=syhhjkb4gdz

@nitsua60 But you can stretch it when placing

Will result in a single long one

Yep

@Oak aahhhhhhh...

@nitsua60 Does this come off as a rant to you? I've been umming and aahing about posting it since I saw that question, but I feel like it needs to be said.

@nitsua60 regarding elevation-change markers - it's a good idea, just not sure how to make it simple to place while still looking nice (and simplicity is a top priority for me). I'm open to ideas!

@Miniman I wouldn't have said "ranty" at all. Looks like perfectly-reasoned analysis in the first half, and any ouchies that portioned might have occasioned should be completely mollified by the second half.

@nitsua60 I was actually more worried about the second half seeming ranty (I really hate protection), so that's good to hear!

Question

Answer

Has anyone put any thought into a "D&D for Kids"-type game?

@BESW That's my joke

@Ben Yes.

@BESW I tried that with my kids--not fans at all. (Them nor me.)

Yeah, it's... not what I'd use.

Little adventures: much better =)

There's a 4e D&D for Dads hack which might be interesting.

And of course there are a LOT of other RPGs for kids, both more and less D&D-like.

@TheOracle @nitsua60 I'm glad you asked about that - I saw all the suggested edits to tag wikis and was thinking about making a meta post just to make sure it got some attention.

My next one's going to be LLKM where there's a lego-/whatever-building break between chargen and play =)

@Ben I tried running one-offs for my cousins twice, ages ranging from 10 to 14, they had fun :)

@nitsua60 ...pictures.

@Miniman The second half, if anything, underplays how "meh" protection, IMO. Considering how much 5e combats tend toward "race to 0HP," burning a reaction to disadvantage an attack on an ally seems so much worse, in the vast majority of occasions, than using that reaction to OA. That's to say: if I had protection for free I'd probably still not use it. Add on the opportunity cost that protection actually comes at....

@Ben how old?

Well, tbh I don't know many kids. The oldest I know is probably 5?

So I'm a bit ahead of myself at the moment

@nitsua60 Yeah, that about sums it up. Personally, I think it should guarantee that the ally doesn't get hit, possibly hitting you instead.

@Ben Yeah, 5 seems to be about the age where you can start to introduce some very light tactile structure to improvisation if the kid's in the right mood.

@Miniman the proposed change takes a big thing away from shields, though :/ With the change, shields become only passively awesome

@daze413 Wait, his or mine?

Prince's Kingdom thinks it can work with a 5-year-old in an otherwise older group, but I'm skeptical.

@BESW I think maybe if we invite the parents to play as well, that might work, for a series of games.

@Oak I'd be super-stoked if the existing stairs were complemented by a few other icons: an escarpment/enbankment, hill/slope, and natural stair/slope. (I'm just pulling out adventure maps willy-nilly here.)

But we'll definitely need something to keep their attention on the game. Miniatures or something

But I have found that children do enjoy games more if their parents are playing: "Now it's mummy's turn!"

(@SevenSidedDie edited because I knew you'd care =D )

You can check out what games were in the Family Friendly Bundle of Holding.

@BESW Absolutely. (But it'll be weeks, at least, as we've got a family vacation coming up.)

@Miniman his. If, effectively, he changes protection to be used with any weapon in his hand, and able to react to an adjacent enemy, instead of an ally, as you point out, shields have no active mechanical benefits anymore, making it less awesome.

@nitsua60 buh… oh, ha! Yes, nice subtle catch. :)

But the indie boom, combined with a generation of gamers-since-childhood having kids of their own, is producing more, better RPGs for kids so keep an eye out for new stuff!

I like Fred Hicks' personalised system for his own kids.

@Oak (last one for a while, I swear) it'd be nice if the text-box had two options: one with no background (as it currently is), one with a neutral-colored background.

@daze413 Yeah, that's a big part of why I think protection should be guaranteed to succeed. The players picking it want to be the awesome guy protecting their allies, blocking arrows with their shield, and so on. Very thematic.

@nitsua60 can you link some examples?

@nitsua60 for legibility? The next version might include multiple possible colors for text, so that might help instead

@nitsua60 but how would those look in my symbolic, grid-based style?

@BESW Does he have any documentation for this?

@Oak Yeah, I was thinking of that text label I have over a long stair, or one that runs across a lot of different backgrounds.

@Ben All I've ever been able to scrounge up is in those tweet threads. Looks like you could run the game just off the images in the two tweets I linked.

@nitsua60 It's a good point. If additional color options don't help with legibility in these conditions, I'll look into some faint white outline or something like that.

I agree black tokens + black stairs + black stairs is a bit problematic :-)

@Oak I dunno, you're the designer =)

(I'm just throwing lotsa ideas out there, in the hopes that one in ten of them makes you think "yeah! That'd be (a) useful (b) implementable (c) easy to use.")

@BESW Fair enough :) Though, thinking about it, some of your games (like KoM) could probably be good too. Easy, quick, and has that extra bit of fun of naming/creating your monsters

@nitsua60 unfortunately I'm mostly a programmer and not a designer. That being said, I'll experiment with it a bit. I'm already experimenting with how to draw a square pit... I'll look into more natural elevation changes options

@Ben Puppy Day might work too.

@BESW Yeah :)

@nitsua60 I'm delighted to hear ideas! The more the merrier! Some things are indeed easier than others. For example I used to only have doors, but adding bars, fences and curtains turned out to be like a few hours work in total so that was a great return-on-investment

@Miniman A small 'buff' to protection like the one OP proposes wouldn't break the game, I think I'll make that change and see how it goes

anyway, I'm off! ttfn :D

@daze413 Cya!

@daze413 hi/bye

@daze413 Let me know how it goes; protection is really popular, so I'd love to have a fix on hand.

In other news... I need to come up with a BBEG encounter for my mini-quest.

@Oak It's not intuitively obvious (to me) how I'll access one once I leave. Do I just have to bookmark the url? Will that url change with revisions? Is that the url I use to share? okay, I just clicked on the fourth menu. It's all intuitively obvious from there.

@Ben D&D 5e? Party numbers, levels, classes?

Smiley Bob!

@nitsua60 I also want to add a page listing all of "your" maps... but that requires adding log-in flow, which is actually pretty easy but not a priority right now

@Miniman This is the same venture we were discissuing about the "love-interest" issues. Me and one other player.

Fighter and Ranger, level 5.

Got the BBEG planned out, just need the encounter

@nitsua60 just be careful because if you don't save the url (specifically, the "mid=something" part of it) you can never find the map back

BBEG has kidnapped the NPC (my character), and told her where to find them.

@Oak Is it just me, or do "single door," "double door," and "secret door" all drop the same icon?

@nitsua60 link?

@Oak mipui.net/app/index.html?mid=mmwqx7sn094&secret=syhhjkb4gdz

@nitsua60 just saw you adding three distinct things...

@Ben As in, you know what the BBEG is, but you need to figure out how to have an encounter with him? Is he supposed to survive this encounter? Are the players? What is he?

@nitsua60 Which browser/OS? Can you post a screenshot here?

Chrome, Win8; that's single, double, secret, from top to bottom.

Ah--in beige it works fine. And in graph and gridless. It's just "cutout" where it's not evident.

@Miniman The adventure is a "prequel" to a current adventure, so the PCs need to survive. Right at the end there's going to be "magic" that wipes everyone's minds as to what exactly happened, and they all wake up in different places.

@nitsua60 saw you were online. Just thought I'd stop by in your domain for once and ask how you are doing. :-)

You know annoys your dm?

The BBEG is a warlock-type, that specialises in mind control

When they set up 3 spellcasters to prevent you from counterspelling.

But you've gone invisible

@TheGreatDuck Huzzah! Welcome to...

[wave] Hi!

hello there @TheGreatDuck

@nitsua60 You really are proud of this community aren't you :)

@Ben well, the other contenders for motto don't really fit the occasion =)

ok

@Ben But, yes, I'm very happy with this community. I'm not sure "proud" is it, but happy is good.

just saw the list of active users

chose to stop by

@TheGreatDuck How's your Wednesday?

now I'm out of here

:p

@nitsua60 Let's go with "chuffed" haha

@nitsua60 creepy smile It has been very productive.

@Ben "healthy" and "considerate" resonate, and they're not always easy to find.

@Ben Wait till you read his autobiography: From Over-Editor to Moderator in under 2 years: My Sheepy Success Story

...

@BESW what's that for?

Thassa creepy smile, methinks =)

@TheGreatDuck It's a happy sheep, illustrative of @nitsua60's mood.

kk

@nitsua60 been working on this. indiedb.com/games/block-builder/images/… I'm basically making stuff on 3D surfaces... like massive cubes.

@Miniman [tugs at collar, mumbles] didn't think anyone else remembered that...

@nitsua60 That you've only been around for a couple of years? I forget most of the time.

@Miniman no, that first meta A you linked to....

@TheGreatDuck you want to visualize pac-man's toroidal geometry? =D

@nitsua60 I know :P

oh nonono

this is far broader

I have an algorithm for motion on the surface of any 3D model

I'm just using squares for my game

@TheGreatDuck (Nitsua changed his avatar after rep-capping on sheep and we won't forget it.)

@TheGreatDuck When you say "3d model," do you mean defined in the algorithm/program, or are you taking in, say, a .stl for your model?

@nitsua60 I just mean that if i have a collection of triangles and each knows which one is next to it, then I can in theory make a think walk on the surface of the entire structure

but this is just blocks

and right now I'm focusing on the architecture of the block network and building complex shapes.

@BESW I should update the post eight down, to say that the hats look excellent =)

@TheGreatDuck so you've got arbitrary triangles specified by vertices and a connection-map, then you can constrain a sprite to that surface? Cool =)

What're you programming in?

game maker

@nitsua60 actually, considering the normal vector of a point triple is trivial to find, I can make a 3d model walk on a 3d model

also, the geodesics of a 3d model will approximate that of the ideal surface

@TheGreatDuck tell that to my students =)

(cross-products always seem to baffle them)

[eyes glaze over]

determinants are trivial

also, think of it as a special matrix where one row is a row of vectors

mathematically speaking there is nothing stopping one from having vectors within matrices

i mean... so long as they cannot multiply times each other

@BESW (I don't know Duck's field, but in my line of work "trivial" = "I definitely knew how to do it years ago, but don't feel like doing it now, so I'll make you do it.)

@nitsua60 Ah, I have that in my field too, except I don't have anyone to hand it off to.

i'm going to be a 4th year undergrad majoring in math and computer science

cross product is just a special determinant

@TheGreatDuck Curious: what benefit do you see to describing it thusly, rather than as a tensor, or as an n-ary array? (I.e. what's the paradigm/mindset that "matrix of vectors" is particularly useful for?)

@nitsua60 mindset in computing the cross product?

:p

i j and k can be thought of as the coordinate triple or whatever the term was in geometry

you know {(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)}

or as the one professor preferred

e_1, e_2, and e_3

@nitsua60 Making me hate stuff? Matrices and vectors were kind of my least-favourite bits of maths I've learned.

@TheGreatDuck sure, that's pretty standard

i find it simple I guess

@nitsua60 Legos work very well for dnd-model scale things, and do terrain nicely. Using actual Legos gives good customization options for characters and monsters. The downside is prep will take much, much longer, and easily get you sidetracked.

@nitsua60 so basically given the ability to construct the actual 3D model walking maps, I essentially have a means to make something walk on any surface. Like spheres for instance.

@TheGreatDuck gotcha. I wasn't even thinking that way--it's so ingrained that I don't even notice some of the elements of $A \times B$ even are vectors, as long as their dimension matches those of A and B.

@JoelHarmon Except I have players who love that game =)

well the i,j,k at the top row

those are the vectors

So the "time suck" isn't suck at all, but "time awesome" =D

@JoelHarmon Also he's not talking about D&D, but Long Live the King of Monsters!

but since they never multiply times each other when doing matrix algebra, that is technically a legal loophole.

in fact, I might ask about that on MSE some time to see to what degree the different dimensions can be pushed

im guessing only one row can be nonscalar but idk

might be that one row can be the associated row vector of the top row's column vectors

@TheGreatDuck I've just gotten into such (probably) bad habits of worring about basis last that I don't worry too much about it until then =)

then the determinant will compress into a scalar instead of a vector

hmm....

@TheGreatDuck You can throw whatever species of elements in there you'll want, you just have to be careful about defining multiplication.

now you got the gears rolling

@nitsua60 I'm not changing the definition of multiplication. Rather, I'm seeing what combinations of elements are legal

I believe that one row being some vector a

@nitsua60 I don't know much about Pokémon, but "species of elements" sounds like you're talking about Pokémon.

@TheGreatDuck They all are. For properly-defined multiplication.

@nitsua60 uuuh no

a*b is only legal if the dimensions agree

@nitsua60 Thanks for spotting that! There are actually two bugs here: (1) I was not synced with your theme and (2) cutout doesn't implement those (yet). I'll get on it. Thanks!

hence, I'm curious what rules allow for vectors/matrices for which the algebra in general is still legal

@TheGreatDuck That's not a matter of species, it's a matter of span (or size or dimension, however you know it).

so like

the top row can be filled with vectors 4*1

the middle row can be 1*1

@TheGreatDuck (and we should avoid the asterisk, since it's poorly-/ambiguously-defined in this conversation)

and the bottom row can be 1 by 4 vectors

no need to change that last word =)

if you take the determinant it will be combinations of scalar * vector * transpose

hence either a sum of inner products or outer products

regardless

it's all useless

In any case, if we're to continue we should probably hike back to M.SE chat--this is getting a little OT for the room.

it's just worth noting that the cross product is a determinant of a matrix containing vectors.

@Oak Glad I helped you find it =)

nah im heading over to another chat to ask about inefficiencies in the block constructing algorithms

@TheGreatDuck (in some contexts)

allocation is a bit costly

gonna try simplifying the functions

hopefully it all starts to... go faster

@TheGreatDuck good luck!

you'll need it...

creepy smile

Duck leaves as a MSE-ic bomb strikes RPG.se

@TheGreatDuck [that turtle duck chatizen sure is creepy]

that's not a turtle

:/

@TheGreatDuck If I had a nickel for every time....

every time what?

???

@TheGreatDuck Every time he failed to finish a sentence.

ffs

that's not what he was saying

The ... is filling in for "I failed to finish a sentence, I'd do it a lot more often."

no it isnt

@TheGreatDuck I was kidding. Sorry.

@Miniman lolfigsl

@nitsua60 *lmso

@TheGreatDuck [finds it hard to believe your socks actually fell off]

that's not what came out

it stands for...

drumroll

laughing

my

sound

out

cause when I laugh, sound comes out of me, and it is my sound.

@Oak last one for the night (likely lie): it'd be nice if the windows were the thickness of the wall, or if the wall thinned to meet the window, perhaps? They look a little strange hanging there in the middle of the wall. But I get that we're trying to differentiate between windows and doors.

A distinction that was lost on my HS play-group the last time they met a gorgeous, 20' high, stained glass window.

@nitsua60 also, that was indication of your typo

so I didn't lmso.

you did

@nitsua60 It's for helping differentiate. Also, at least in my eyes, it signifies that it's ultimately a wall you can't (or at least, not supposed to) pass through. Also... it's easy this way, modifying the wall is more work :-)

@TheGreatDuck what typo?

"lolfigsl"

^ ^

0 0

|_|

that's no typo

like my face?

@Oak some maps I just pulled out had windows that were cast in the same color as the wall. I think that'd be really unimpressive here/wouldn't work at all. Don't get me wrong--it works. It just looked a little odd to me.

@Oak how about an arrow slit in the window/door menu?

@Oak how 'bout being able to generate a key/legend of all the used icons in the current map?

@Oak howbout being able to drag the various doors/windows into larger versions of themselves, like you can with stairs? (I.e. I can click-and-drag to create a single door that takes up 10' of wall, like I would click-and-drag to create 10' continuous stair?)

Hmm. If a question is closed as too broad, I assume it's against stackiquette to answer it anyway?

@JoelHarmon How would you answer it if it's closed?

with magic, mostly

really I'm just focusing on how to luchador as an octopus or giant snake, and not thinking about things like technical feasibility of the site

Ki Khanga available for pre-order.

@JoelHarmon And why it's so much better than luchadoring as a human? I've wanted to write that answer, too.

@Miniman yeah, I only just got back to it today, without realizing I'd asked about Druid after it was already closed

Grammar question: say I'd like to send a thank-you to Miniman for something he did for Joel and me. Is it "on Joel's and my behalf" or "on Joel's and my behalves"?

("Bewhole"?)

I believe the correct grammar is "for us"

I think you don't need the possessive on Joel's

to English.SE!

@nitsua60 Pretty sure the correct grammar is a box of chocolates. Caramels preferred, steer clear of anything too dark.