TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

00:00

@MorningStar (ok, thanks. I wouldn't mind talking about it if you meant "you vs. me" but I'd want to know that's what I was getting into!)

@MorningStar Can I ask a question that turns everything on its head?

Morning Star

You don't know me. I never harmed any of you.

Why the heck isn't at least a single one user between you, who would contact me and he would say: "Sorry we hate you because ..., ... and ..."?

nitsua60

@MorningStar You did vandalize a part of the internet that I value and over which I have some moderation ability/responsibility: I flagged your profane comments yesterday.

Morning Star

If I try to talk about this direction: "What is your real problem?" all of you start to run away, and the meeting ends. Even the mods.

nitsua60

(Vandalize isn't really the right word. Hmm... Scandalize?)

Shalvenay

@MorningStar -- have you considered that it's because you're interpreting it as a personal matter and not purely on where your questions lie?

Morning Star

00:03

@nitsua60 It was nothing, not that was the problem. The problem was that I had posted question, which were formulated in my mind since days, and this question was around 2 minute old, as it already had 3 close votes.

@nitsua60 This resulted the "profane" ;-) words. This was the last drop.

@Shalvenay I don't know if it is personal, but I know that it is extremely hostile.

@Shalvenay Other, larger sites can be also hostile, but the RPG SE, which is about a game, is far worse as they ever.

Shalvenay

why are they getting close voted? what sort of engagement are you getting in comments?

nitsua60

@MorningStar And I think I was the first close-voter, and left a comment as to why I thought it needed work. So I'm saying: I'm happy to talk about why I voted to close. If you want to talk about a broader patter I'm also happy to talk about that, though I will know much less about the matter in that case.

(but I'm going to have to step out right now for about half an hour, as I have children to put to bed)

@MorningStar I strongly advise you describe behavior/actions, not people. This is what led to the suspension yesterday.

Shalvenay

@MorningStar as someone who has had questions closed himself, and has lost count of how many close votes he's thrown out there -- close voting is an utterly impersonal act, at least for me.

Morning Star

For example, on the MathSE, the community is bound be the love of math. Everybody loves there Math. And it holds us together.

Why the *** can't same work on the RPG SE, too?

Or why I didn't experience this even in a trace here?

If I ask there something, I get an answer, mostly very well-educated, professional answer from somebody, who also loves Math, and he is happy that he can make this clear for me. If I answer a question, I do the same.

Why the heck were there nobody who had found interesting to share his ideas, concepts and, yes, unclear opinions about how could a Lichs defensive system work?

Shalvenay

I haven't seen the comment threads surrounding your low-quality questions here, but those usually have the answers to why your questions are being closed. is there some sort of assumption or inductive leap you make when you ask here that is not conveyed in your questions? are they dependent on taste or playstyle to a point where they no longer fit what a Stack is suited for? ...and I think you have just hit on something right there

@MorningStar the Stack format and pure idea generation/brainstorming are a poor mix -- trying to shoehorn idea generation into the Stack format leaves no clear guidance to voters as to what answers are good or bad

Morning Star

00:12

@Shalvenay Yes, there is always an "explanation"

@Shalvenay I am asking here not from the surface, from the "explanation", but from the real cause. Why is this site so hostile to me?

Shalvenay

@MorningStar the hostility is something you're assuming.

what this site is hostile to is low quality questions.

8

I'm going to take a look at the lich question for instance.

it was VTCed as "too broad". even just skimming the question, I can see why -- it does not convey nearly enough of your assumptions and notions of how liches function in your world and campaign, as well as system-specific influences (even between 3.5e, 4e, and 5e, the threat model a lich is up against is quite a bit different, which'd influence their security measures accordingly)

basically, it's like asking a math question that relies on a bunch of things without stating that you're assuming that X, Y, and Z are true. do you get where this line of logic is going @MorningStar?

hey there @ArtOfCode

ArtOfCode

o/

Shalvenay

how're things going?

ArtOfCode

00:28

decent, just acquainting myself with what's happening over here :)

Shalvenay

ah. trying to help a confused user understand the question quality issues he's having

ArtOfCode

Indeed, don't let me stop you :)

Shalvenay

other than that? alright albeit a bit slow. been workshopping a dungeon lately

@MorningStar -- in fact, your lich question is entirely predicated on liches needing to be responsible for their own self defense. what if they were normal town citizens with all the rights to (un)life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness every other citizen had, protected by the constabulary just like all the other citizens of the town?

Reibello

@Shalvenay sorry saw the ping the other night - chat doesn't work on mobile. Robotics team started up again this week and stuff got away from me

Shalvenay

ah. I might have some time later tonight to do the dungeon testing with you @Reibello -- my scheduled thing tonight should be rather short

Reibello

00:41

okay - if not, that's fine, I can try again tomorow

nitsua60

@MorningStar I'm back, if you want to keep chatting. I won't bother you with my thoughts on the matter if I don't hear from you, though. Ping me if you like.

@Reibello FRC?

Reibello

@nitsua60 I coach FTC, but we're affiliated with an FRC team - I went to see them compete today!

nitsua60

@Reibello Noice.

Reibello

Yeah. Good group of kids. Time commitment is a bit on the nuts side though.

nitsua60

@Reibello shyeah. Was lead mentor on an FRC team for 9 years. (This year two new people came in to tag-team that role, and I'm the behind-the-scenes guy.)

Reibello

00:47

nice

How'd the team do at the NYC regional?

or are you guys going to HV next week?

er my mistake

NYC is in April

I thought that was the earlier one

nitsua60

@Reibello we're in the NE district. They didn't do very well in their first district event, and couldn't make the second.

Reibello

ahh oikay

bummer

is there a third shot for them?

nitsua60

@Reibello nah

that's it for the year.

Reibello

Bummer

Shalvenay

01:26

hey there btw @SPavel

and hey as well @CTWind

CTWind

Hi! Just rebooted my machine is all. :-P

Shalvenay

ah.

nitsua60

01:44

I might have to propose a new site-motto over at WB.SE:

> Shoot, when I go home I'm not in charge of anything but the garbage. But here, on this canvas, I can move mountains. -Bob Ross

SPavel

It's always weird to see people from here on other stacks

CTWind

For me, I keep having to remind myself that I'm on the stackexchange network when I'm surprised at the number of programmers/sysadmins/etc in the rpg.se chat. :-P

SPavel

Nerds of a feather

Oddly enough, non-stack RPG communities tend to be bereft of our type

But I guess everyone is already on SO

So it's an easy transition

Shalvenay

02:06

yeah -- most of the techie types tend to not like the...tone and tenor of the other RPG fora very much

SPavel

It depends - I think The Q and A format is the biggest drive

No offtopic derailing, only answers to the question

Tone is present everywhere

Shalvenay

yeah. the Stack's format provides structure and constructiveness, vs the "agreement or argument" nature of other RPG fora

SPavel

I've never seen agreement on forums

Just towers of quotes and responses

Shalvenay

yeah

SPavel

Page 10 of every thread will be like "and furthermore I never said that eating babies is always good"

2

Shalvenay

02:16

it's either more-or-less silent assent, or full-throated argument, then a drift off-topic

SPavel

"well at my table..."

Shalvenay

haha

SPavel

And then inevitably everyone gets banned.

Which is a great bit of salt for @KRyan

nitsua60

03:40

@SPavel I don't follow?

Shalvenay

04:47

hey @Skyler

Skyler

hey @Shalvenay

what have you been up to

Shalvenay

moar dungeon playtesting, also having visions of my one and only princess making a grand entrance at the royal ball :o

thing is -- she's 6'8"/260lbs of lean muscle, has on splint mail under her formal gown...and I reckon would probably wear her two-handed maul to the ball instead of a sword... ;)

(all polished up and beautiful looking of course)

Skyler

05:35

@Shalvenay lol, this answer never got sent: so this is clearly a dnd princess

on my end up i tried to simultaneously learn modelsim verilog and vhdl as i was working on a project where i had to also learn the vga protocol and for an fft spectrum analyzer

BESW

09:05

Happy Naw-Rúz!

trogdor

:)

Patta

11:24

@nitsua60 Seeing the frequency of TDE-Questions that come in, I will have some days to rest :P

@SPavel You should read "Kobolds ate my Baby" on that point :P

doppelgreener

12:25

@BESW Hooray! Happy Naw-Rúz to you too!

BESW

nitsua60

13:17

VtC rec

The Oracle

0

Q: How can I retract or revoke my decision on an edit

How can I retract or revoke my decision on an edit? I accepted an edit that, at that time, looked sensible to me. After I accepted the edit, it clicked to me that it was not right. I tried to revoke or retract my decision but I could not find how. Is there a way of doing it?

support

The Oracle

13:51

1

Q: Are [online-resources] on-topic?

I just noticed online-resources today, which tag-wiki starts: About finding resources online. To me this immediately screams "off-topic, recommendation." Looking at the 44 questions tagged with it (11 closed, 33 open) I'm not seeing much to change that opinion. It looks (to me) like a lot ...

discussion tags on-topic

Shalvenay

16:50

hey @JackStout

Jack Stout

sup @Shalvenay?

Hey, all! I'm concerned about releasing square gridded battle maps online without taking user constraints into consideration. I could strictly focus on users of digital maps and not be concerned, but I don't use them and would prefer to accommodate the meatspace crowd.

Shalvenay

who are you trying to accommodate? hex grid folks?

Jack Stout

My everyday use battle grid is 30" by 20" with a dry erase surface, but I'm unsure whether that's larger than groups would typically have, smaller, or fairly common.

I'm worried about making any, single clustering of interactive elements too sprawling to be represented easily.

Hex is great, but I haven't put any effort into supporting it.

Shalvenay

oh, I see -- making maps that might overflow people's battlemats :P

Jack Stout

The other side of that problem is only releasing spaces that make players feel claustrophobic. A rich combat experience often relies on a few spaces that are more open and consume more of the available real estate..

@Shalvenay Exactly.

Also, sorry I couldn't be more helpful last week. I was walking through a coastal wood.

Shalvenay

17:04

np :)

nitsua60

@Shalvenay do you really mean "using median as mean," or should it rather be "using mean as median?" It looks like you've taken the mean in the post.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 using median as the mean

nitsua60

Okay, where'd you get the median?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah. I see where you're going now, will edit

fixed

Shalvenay

17:26

hey there @CTWind

CTWind

Hello!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

CTWind

Going alright, just waking up.

Shalvenay

OK here albeit rather slow

doppelgreener

22:07

@BESW I spoke a bit to @June about Iron Fist. I don't think you're gonna enjoy it.

trogdor

oh

it's real bad huh?

doppelgreener

i told her the things BESW was super hoping it would and wouldn't do

guess which items got ticked off as "they did that"

also the, uh, things she has to say about it are pretty condemning

trogdor

wow

I had hoped like, they might do a decent job of trying not to go certain ways with that show

I think I have more or less a grasp of what you mean

doppelgreener

netflix is not doing well with its marvel properties recently

or like, at any point since the original season of daredevil

trogdor

well, I liked Luke Cage personally

doppelgreener

22:17

which is to say, it hasn't done well with its marvel properties at any point other than its first attempt at them

i had mixed feelings about luke cage. i found it enjoyable but it also had some serious problems.

trogdor

and to be fair, the DC ones have issues too

@doppelgreener I can definitely understand that

doppelgreener

yeah, the netflix series are definitely better than what DC's doing.

but that's a low bar to pass

and i figure Netflix's shows are mainly propped up by their Marvel source material already being pretty great.

trogdor

my mom watched Daredevil and Luke Cage with me, and she was upset that the nurse pretty much just slept with both of them

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Also some overflow-hopefulness from lots of very successful Marvel movies, I'd imagine.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

trogdor

22:19

I also personally liked Jessica Jones, though the main villian upset me a lot

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

how're things going?

trogdor

which I mean, I get it, he is a bad guy after all,.... but jeez

nitsua60

Got about ten linear feet of book cataloged and shelved today, so that's nice.

I'm shooting for small victories at this stage of life =)

Caught up some on C-SPAN while doing so, which prompted my first Skeptics.SE question.

@Shalvenay How 'bout you?

Shalvenay

OK here, although today's been rather slow. going to see if I can catch up to @Reibello tonight to wrap up the dungeon run

beyond that, pretty jazzed for this upcoming Saturday

Jack Stout

22:30

@Shalvenay Looks like my grid dimensions or are on the common to small end of the spectrum. Means I'll be able to use existing assets for published maps.

Shalvenay

coolio

nitsua60

22:45

@JackStout my "regular" battlemat is 21x25 1in. squares; my "large enough I only pull it out if I really need it" one is 32x46 1in. squares. (They're the Chessex 26x23.5 and 48x34.5 mats.)

Shalvenay

hey there @Emrakul

Jack Stout

@nitsua60 Alright. Hmm. I wonder if there's significant usage of grids under 4-sq.ft.

nitsua60

Like a 24x18 or so?

Jack Stout

Ya. I played on 18 x 18 for a while back in 2003.

Shalvenay

just wait until you the only thing you can use for mapping is printer paper :p

Jack Stout

22:51

Really had to keep it to one or two rooms at a time in dungeons that were supposed to feel like that head any kind of grandeur.

If I don't have maps available, I run games without 'em.

I can do a decent game with two people, pencils, dice or coins, and tortilla chips.

nitsua60

@JackStout Interesting; I don't think I've ever seen one smaller than 24x24. (Unless you're cutting grid-paper to size.)

@JackStout Yeah, but don't skimp on the chips =)

Jack Stout

It was premade with stone texture. I believe it folded twice.

Shalvenay

yeah, theater of the mind is useful, that's for sure, although a bit tougher

nitsua60

@JackStout Neat. Plenty of 10x10 interlocking tiles, though.

Jack Stout

I feel like I should start publishing maps in the style I use for my own games. I studied drafting, not art, so my maps have a dry, yet informative look. They should be easy to transfer onto a reusable surface and inexpensive to print. Part of that is ensuring they're constructed with transferring and printing in mind.

I just found Tact-tiles while investigating this problem. Too expensive for me, but I would love to have something that could be modified to meet context. Perhaps, another day...

nitsua60

23:01

@JackStout do you have any you could digitally share/show off?

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay maybe in D&D 4e

Jack Stout

@nitsua60 Not today, but I can make sure I've gotten something next week.

I'm a fan of the Pay What You Want model of publishing for newer content creators.

Looking into options for distribution but that's farther down the road.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener I'm just saying that things like spell range are a bit tougher to keep in one's head :) you wind up introducing some...slop, if you will, into positioning, which is OK I suppose, but does leave you wondering slightly about its impact on the game

nitsua60

@JackStout Me too, but I wish DMs Guild would make it possible to pay $0, then go back and pay some amount.

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay oh, right. i was not reading any specific game into this discussion.

Shalvenay

23:10

@doppelgreener yeah -- some games don't care about positioning much and thus have an easier time with theater of the mind

Miniman

@nitsua60 Well, you could always have an account for trying stuff and another one for buying stuff.

nitsua60

Yeah, I suppose. As is, I just end up paying producers less than I'd like =(

Jack Stout

@nitsua60 drivethrurpg allows $0. That's what I'm most likely to use.

@nitsua60 @Miniman I've downloaded content twice to make that donation, or visited a patreon page when one was available.

nitsua60

@JackStout Yeah, that's the part I dislike: "buying" it a second time. It clutters up my library and screws with download/sales numbers.

Miniman

I didn't even realise you could just "re-buy" something.

nitsua60

23:14

(I guess, though, I'm only falsely inflating the numbers on things I like, so that's alright?)

Jack Stout

@Shalvenay @doppelgreener Preferred method is crafting/survival with d20 and player designed stats. Works great with a doodled map and inventory list.

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 At least on DTRPG, it doesn't add a second copy to your library. It seems to handle content purchasing in an “unlock” model.

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie That's good to know.

SevenSidedDie

And I think on the purchase statistics end, they track repurchases so that creators can know stats on “upgrading” from a free PWYW? But I may be misremembering a vaguely-remembered conversation.

nitsua60

That makes some sense, I guess. If a repurchase is distinguished from an initial purpose, that's actually pretty useful.

SevenSidedDie

23:18

Isn't DM's Guild just a fancy-branded view of DriveThruRPG? If so, it should let you buy at $0 once and then for $x>0 later, but I haven't tried it to confirm. I suppose WotC might have specifically requested that be disabled.

Jack Stout

@nitsua60 I agree. It would be good for content creators if users could donate directly to them or the product. Alternatively, they could make sure they've got a separate page somewhere to receive that support.

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie That's my understanding, that the DTRPG engine powers DMsGuild. Maybe I just haven't played around with it enough.

doppelgreener

I deleted a few elements from the side navigation to get those in the same view

It's definitely a DTRPG site

Oh hey.

> Dungeon Masters Guild is part of a family of premiere online marketplaces including RPGNow, DriveThruRPG, DriveThruCards, DnDClassics, DriveThruComics, DriveThruFiction, and Wargame Vault. Together, we have been selling digital and print-on-demand comic books, roleplaying games, and fiction since 2001. -- About

SevenSidedDie

Ah, yep, it's definitely DTRPG. I'm already logged in. :D

And it does work the same:

nitsua60

What's the distinction between DTRPG and RPGNow?

@SevenSidedDie [goes to up-pay some deserving creators]

SevenSidedDie

23:23

@nitsua60 RPGNow is leftover branding from when they were separate. DTRPG bought RPGNow.

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie gotcha.

SevenSidedDie

Personally I still prefer the RPGNow trade dress. It's silly, but when I hit a DTRPG link I usually edit the URL to take me to the RPGNow view.

nitsua60

quick poll: how do you-all pronounce "patreon"?

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 pay-tree-on. like 'patron' but with an 'ee' in there.

Jack Stout

pay-tree-on

pay-tree-uhn, actually

SevenSidedDie

23:30

@nitsua60 I reflexively pronounce it with Latin syllable emphasis (puh-TREY-on), but my friend who actually has one keeps correcting me that it's like “patron” but with an eee stuck in there (PAY-tree-on).

doppelgreener

DriveThru cards has introduced me to the wonderful world of Cards Against Humanity third-party expansion pack naming: Furries Create Insanity, Blinks Abhor Society, Cooks Attract Matrimony, Carbs of the Huge Mantee, Cults Attempt Hokypoky

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie That's what always comes out of my mouth, too, and I'm always suspecting that it's "wrong."

Jack Stout

Clearly, my pronunciation is correct.

Deal.

feels pimp all day

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Whenever conversation comes up about correct pronunciation and spelling, I like to recall that the English language was (mostly) standardised by a one-man project that lasted nine years who by no means should have done it solo and who baked in many, many errors of his own.

Before then, acceptable spelling was whatever letters made someone pronounce it out loud the right way, and acceptable pronunciation was whatever people around you understood.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Still is, really.

doppelgreener

23:36

@nitsua60 indeed c(:

Jack Stout

I read journals from american pioneers and 18th century sailors as a teenager. Apparently, phonetics was everything.

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener And just before that the Great Vowel Shift happened even while spelling was becoming more standard, calcifying many vowel sound spellings in a way that the rest of Europe thinks are nuts.

I remain fairly confident that the pronunciation of my youth of “cetacean” as “SAY-tuh-seen” is objectively incorrect. ;)

trogdor

@doppelgreener stupid english language XD

it's a lot nicer to read than to speak in english, that is for sure, at least as far as I am concerned

SevenSidedDie

I am still amazed that anyone manages to learn English well without being born into it. The more I learn other languages, the more I can see how unusual and weird English is.

trogdor

I am half convinced my extreme difficulty learning other languages has something to do with English being my first one

like, I expect inane grammar and pronunciation rules even when there are not any around

nitsua60

23:44

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (US Rep-FL) just held up a wish sandwich during her time... I get that there's always some grandstanding and theatrics, but really? In subcommittee? During markup? Before the bill's even made it to reconciliation?

SevenSidedDie

@trogdor And English lacks some things that are basic to many other languages, like rich case systems.

nitsua60

VtC tool rec

Miniman

@nitsua60 I'm confident I understand every word of that sentence, but I have absolutely no idea what it means.

trogdor

@SevenSidedDie I think there are indeed some things, such as that, that I didn't even consider could be part of it

nitsua60

@Miniman Eh, not important. A US representative held up two pieces of white bread and wagged them at her colleagues. That sort of ~~ridiculous waste of taxpayer-funded salary~~ presentation isn't unusual on the floor of the full house, where news cameras might pick it up and make something of it, but this was during a really boring and, frankly, unimportant procedural meeting which only the super-nerdiest might ever see.

Miniman

23:48

@SevenSidedDie The one that I find particularly thrilling is the idea of tense markers.

nitsua60

Just seems like a waste of a ridiculous gesture, that's all.

Miniman

@nitsua60 I think any ridiculous gesturer would tell you that ridiculous gestures are never wasted.

BESW

@SevenSidedDie EPP-if-FAN-ee.

SevenSidedDie

@Miniman Yeah, English tense is weird in that it has heavy tense usage, but very few markers, preferring auxiliary verbs. One thing I dread(?) tackling is languages that don't use tense much, but have a lot of aspect instead, which I feel I don't fully grasp as a concept, let alone in practice. One day I'll study Mandarin or Cantonese and hit aspect with my face until it sinks in.

The thing I find fascinating in practical language-learning terms is the way preposition systems in different languages rarely ever match. There are so many ways to divide up the idea of “relationship to other thing” with individual words.

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