TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:00

hey @JuneShores

JuneShores

Hey there.

Shalvenay

and @KumosAgosta as well

how're things going?

JuneShores

Doing alright. I just wrote down a weird mashup of bits of world of Dungeons & Masks for a fantasy game. Gotta get that in a shareable form.

KumosAgosta

Hey! Things are going good, how about yourself?

Shalvenay

alright here

been doing some playtesting of the dungeon I whipped up not too long ago

KumosAgosta

00:05

I've been trying to get my players to finish up their characters for Storm King's

Shalvenay

ah.

@JuneShores -- mind explaining more about this Dungeons & Masks?

Ben

So a level 4 cleric also gets a Stat improvement. He opted for a Feat instead

A level 4 Cleric with 11 Max HP, and he took a critical hit causing a grand total of 28 damage.

Moral of the story: Don't make CON your dump stat.

2

Shalvenay

@Ben yeah -- only make CON your dump if you can live with the consequences :P

JuneShores

World of Dungeons is John Harper's minimalistic Dungeon World hack. Masks: a New Generation is an Apocalypse World game about teenage superheroes finding out who they want to be. I've basically grafted Masks's Conditions mechanic onto World of Dungeons.

Shalvenay

@JuneShores ah, interesting

JuneShores

00:21

Conditions are basically, "I am angry about [...]" or "I'm insecure about [...]" with a mechanical bit and a recovery trigger.

What I'm thinking is that this will help bring emotional consequences to the foreground for a more dramatic game.

doppelgreener

@Shalvenay haaaaaaa! hit points joke.

@JuneShores that sounds excellent, and i am recalling Bubblegumshoe's mechanical leverage of relationships. (has anyone mentioned those to you? are you across those?)

Adeptus

@Ben This is why I always take the average...

Ben

@Adeptus Normally, yeah. I did opt for the dice with one of my characters, and I managed to get 6-10 every time (Fighter, so I had a d10 hit dice)

JuneShores

00:39

still haven't seen it. No funds for RPGs lately, unfortunately.

doppelgreener

@JuneShores Wise though! There's more important stuff and lots of free rpgs.

Short version: in Bubblegumshoe, your (teenage) characters have ~15 relationship points to invest in Loves and Likes. You name a person, whether they Love or Like you (you don't define how you feel about them), and name a special skill they lend you. For example, your cop mom might mean you know interrogation, your sister in university might give you access to biology.

It's left up to the fiction whether you're relying on this person to do the thing for you, or whether you learned the thing yourself through this relationship.

When you draw on the skill, the relationship points go down, and you have to spend time with the person maintaining the relationship to get the points back.

Bubblegumshoe's a system where older people know really useful stuff (& give you really useful skills) but also you want to be careful how much you let them find out, because then they might take the issue out of your hands & not give it the resolution you hope for.

Its relationship system is really nice for actually making your relationships to people important.

BESW

The relationship "skill" can also be called on to get favours (access to a police officer who wouldn't otherwise talk to a teen) or equipment (a listening device). It's very broadly flexible.

doppelgreener

@BESW Hi!! Good morning. :) I hope you and @trogdor enjoy the movie this weekend!

Sorry I missed last one! I think I was a bit sick. Should be OK for the next geek night.

BESW

@doppelgreener Hi. Not actually sure if we're going. Things are changing.

Haven't checked in with Troggy yet.

I hope you're feeling better.

doppelgreener

@BESW i am! i've had an intense couple of weeks at an end-of-project period trying to save so many things, and this week is much more relaxed and good. :)

BESW

00:53

My schedule, on the other hand, keeps getting more "and-I-need-it-yesterday!" deadlines.

JuneShores

Oooh, neat. I like this.

BESW

@JuneShores One recurring theme of BGS is that there are places your sleuths aren't welcome: adult areas, areas "belonging" to other cliques, etc. It costs at least two Cool points to walk into the teacher's lounge, for example. More if there's a teacher who's got it in for you, or if you've been humiliated there recently.

But if there's a friendly teacher in the lounge, you can spend just one point from your relationship with that teacher and get in without losing any Cool at all.

JuneShores

This is all super specific to teenage noir stuff, but I don't mind. Just gotta find some opportunity to play.

Shalvenay

yeah -- some of it probably wouldn't make sense to me...but then again, not many folks go through high school having to play "teach-the-teacher" on a periodic basis

BESW

@JuneShores I have ideas about adapting the concept to mortals' relationships with a pantheon.

JuneShores

01:08

Ooh, that's neat.

Especially for a game where gods are super important. That could be really interesting.

doppelgreener

yeah it could! wow.

@BESW i'd be interested to hear these sometime. (for now, sleep.)

JuneShores

Good night, doppelgreener.

doppelgreener

goodnight!! :)

BESW

Someday I'm going to run a political thriller game set in magical ancient Egypt, where one's relationship with the gods is a basic day-to-day fact of life.

The average person puts a point or two into a lot of different gods, can spend those points for simple things like keeping the milk from spoiling or warding off bad luck, and refreshes those points with simple daily prayers and offerings.

A priest puts most of her points into a relationship with one god, and can spend them to call down curses, predict the future, turn into a cat, and so forth. She refreshes them through things like obedience to vows and undertaking tasks in service of the temple.

Using this mechanic will also help blur the lines between god and godhead; having relationship points with the Pharaoh is in many ways very much like having relationship points with a god, which is as it should be.

2

Shalvenay

01:39

hey there @Joshua

trogdor

02:15

@doppelgreener I hope you feel better now/soon :(

@BESW so what's going on exactly?

unless maybe this is something for skype or discord or something

then it can wait about 5 hours or so

BESW

@trogdor Yeah, better for PMery.

trogdor

mk

Ben

For those who want to know, I just posted a self-answered question, based on the Low-Con-Stat-Cleric I was talking about before. I think someone down-voted it without really reading it.

Miniman

@Ben I downvoted it, and I can assure you that I did read it.

Ben

Oh ok, fair enough. Can I ask why?

Miniman

02:23

Answers don't save questions, and if someone posted a question asking "what are all the consequences of having a negative modifier for X stat", I would pretty much always downvote that.

Ben

Yeah, I do understand that. A question like that posted by anyone would be a bad question - "Read the PHB."

Miniman

You'll notice I didn't downvote your answer - self-answered or not, I try to judge these things on their own merits.

Ben

It's fair :)

Miniman

@Ben Yep, exactly.

Fair warning, though - the community as a whole does seem to judge self-answered questions more harshly, so don't be surprised if it takes a few more hits.

Ben

I'm just nit-picky about down votes like that. I know down votes are just as constructive as up votes. I just like to understand why

Miniman

02:26

Ah, yeah. I used to try to comment every time I downvoted, but I got sick of arguing with people.

4

Ben

Nah I understand that. I seen plenty of people like that in my time here as well.

Shalvenay

hey again @Ben

Ben

o/

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Ben

Yeah not too bad, I'll be heading home a little early today (woo!) but got a few errands to run on the way home

Shalvenay

02:33

OK here I suppose

hoping Nitsua has some remarks re: the playtest from last night

Ben

Yeah. It's getting into the evening for you isn't it?

Shalvenay

@Ben yep

nitsua60

@daze413 If I've got my time-math right, I think that puts it around 6am my time... so if I'm ten minutes slow that's why. (cc: @Miniman)

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Ben

@Miniman I can understand that question being hit pretty hard. It is a dumb question. But I think the answer is a good one, so at the very least I shouldn't expect it to get any downvotes.

Miniman

02:36

@nitsua60 Ouch, that's pretty rough.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Shalvenay

@Ben sometimes having a well-written canonical for a "dumb" question can save a lot of folks a lot of tearing of hair, though XD

Miniman

@Ben Maybe you'll self-qualify for a Reversal badge!

Shalvenay

@Miniman hahaha :D

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

@Miniman eh, it's my usual wakeup. And it's a snow-day tomorrow, so that should make the morning a little slack

Ben

02:37

Haha! That would be brilliant!

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Snow day today: 3 games of Monopoly with an 8 year-old. Which means I won my first and only (lifetime) Monopoly game.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 hahahaha, wow

btw, do you have any comments/remarks/concerns/questions from last night's playtest?

suggestions or criticisms for that matter?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay My thought is that there was very little to do. If you think of a character's sheet as a list of the things that the player prioritizes as "things I like to do and call it D&D," there wasn't a lot of engagement on that front.

You've put a lot of thought and detail into creating a sensible setting (as I'd expect from you), but exploring it can't be the only thing that happens.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, it gets rather social-centric, I will admit

nitsua60

I'm excluding the bandit-fight, because that seemed like an afterthought.

Shalvenay

02:42

yeah -- the bandit-fight's a bit disjoint at this point in time

(it's meant to create another campaign hook)

nitsua60

I mean, it's not like T-boy said "I've been holed up here for a few days because every time I try to leave these jerks try to kill me, can you excort me back!?"

Shalvenay

that would be a good one to add actually

nitsua60

Otherwise, the whole narrative as planned is (1) please go find guy. (2) found guy, he was dilly-dallying, walking him back.

Admittedly, there's some meta-gaming on my part: when you describe a giant spider at the entrance to a "dungeon," I assume you're setting a trap for kill-happy players. So I walked in sure that it could be talked-to.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 xD yeah, or even simply ignored

nitsua60

Reading the log, that bandit-fight looked pretty tough.

Remember that L1 characters can only take one or two hits....

Shalvenay

02:46

yeah...it's been a bit of a knife-edge balancing that fight

do you think I should nerf the thug a bit?

nitsua60

What's the bandits' objective?

@Shalvenay Didn't notice the stats well enough to judge.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 drag off Tharvyrion

(or if he's not present, try to coerce the party into revealing where he is)

nitsua60

It seems to me that the moment they met any serious resistance, then, their morale/commitment might break?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 to some extent, I've been experimenting with that

nitsua60

Take a page from the DW GM moves: show signs of the approaching threat.

IOW, the brief skirmish on the road, in which the bandits' morale breaks, could just be a warning of things to come.

Ben

02:48

I just thought: If you want to play test the dungeon specifically, don't worry about the plot. You want the players to explore your dungeon - find and trigger your traps, etc.

nitsua60

^^ This, too.

Shalvenay

@Ben ah. want me to spoil it for you re: traps?

Ben

(That is: I'm assuming your "dungeon" was the spider-castle)

Shalvenay

@Ben yeah, dungeon-of-sorts :)

nitsua60

(gotta run in 5, btw)

Shalvenay

02:51

@nitsua60 yeah, I think that'd be a good way to play up the campaign-hook aspect of it

Ben

I was just thinking that, you wanted to play test your dungeon, but we spent all of 10 minutes in there, and all we really did is speak to the Spiders, and that's it. I'm not saying that wasn't enjoyable (as I said before, the concept was so left-filed I hardly expected it, and it certainly did make it a unique experience).

We didn't really do anything in the Dungeon at all.

Shalvenay

@Ben yeah, I might do a couple of tests where the PCs are exploring the place

nitsua60

@Shalvenay yeah, please don't take it as all critical: your design of setting is always interesting, and (I think) you have a knack for fleshing out NPCs pretty quickly and memorably.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, this is good stuff though all the same

nitsua60

@Shalvenay My general habit when someone asks for feedback: give all that I can think of, so that the person can take what makes sense to them and discard the rest as the ramblings of a madman.

Shalvenay

02:53

@nitsua60 haha

come to think of it -- I think once Reibello pops up this week, that'll be a really good chance to see some of the more "do" things in the dungeon (considering his char)

but if either of you wish to do a more "do" focused delve, I'm down for that as well

nitsua60

What're you hoping to learn?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 part of it was encounter balance, which I've done a ton of refining on and I think I'm close to the sweet spot for that setup

Joshua

had anybody try to conjure up antimatter yet?

Shalvenay

part of it has been how players have dealt with the thematic and storyline aspects, which has been quite interesting

@Joshua nobody's been high level enough for that one ;P we're dealing with a short-form dungeon/campaign-starter with L1 chars involved atm

Joshua

you can do it w/o any spellcasting ability

Shalvenay

03:02

pah, wrong setting.

and part of this has been to see how the dungeon itself plays out, which is where I think still needs work as well

Joshua

Is marvelous pigments in your setting?

Shalvenay

having someone more Evil-minded in there would be helpful from that standpoint, as the dungeon is designed to be more...subtle in its security measures

Joshua

favorite trap: illusory wall. beyond the wall is a chained gurgon

Shalvenay

@Joshua ...what game are you referring to, even? :P

@Joshua oh, you clearly don't realize what uses I can put trap hardware to. ;)

Joshua

oh yeah trust me there's lots of devious things; but this one is really good for its simplicity

Shalvenay

03:08

@Joshua I'm not sure if you even realize what all traps can be used for :P

BESW

03:37

> We'll add it in post. Once per scene when overcoming an obstacle with an inhuman ability, you can automatically succeed with style instead of rolling.

Adeptus

03:49

D&D Beyond, an official digital toolset for use with the Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition rules, is now in (open?) beta testing

3

Miniman

@Adeptus I don't think it's an open beta - you sign up, and then nothing happens. So either it's going to be an open beta but isn't yet, or it's currently a closed beta.

Adeptus

eh... actually, on closer inspection, it's now taking registrations for beta testing

BESW

> B-Roll Reality. You can spend a fate point to declare that one person in the scene is in the B roll. Until the end of the scene B-roll characters can see and be seen, but can't interact with anything else in the scene unless it's also in the B roll.

trogdor

@BESW that seems either useless or broken

BESW

04:05

It needs a little work, but the basic idea is sound, I think.

trogdor

I mean, the major concern is either just one person being shunted to the B-Roll or too many people being shunted to it

the second one doesn't seem tooo likely because it would cost a fate point every time, but the first one,... would result in the most powerful single use of fate points

it certainly is an entertaining idea though

BESW

> Stunt double. Once per significant milestone, you can concede a conflict after you've been dealt enough stress to be taken out.

> Obvious stunt double. When two scenes are taking place simultaneously, you can participate in both of them as if they were one single scene.

Magician

04:21

@BESW I'd started thinking about this, but yours is better anyway.

BESW

> Life Model Decoy. When you are killed, no matter how definitively, you re-appear after the party's next significant milestone with no memory of the adventure in which you died.

Magician

> Makeup wizardry. You can spend a fate point to ignore the effects of a physical consequence for a scene.

BESW

> Thought bubbles. You can use Notice instead of Empathy to create advantages representing the secret thoughts of other characters.

Magician

> Green Screen. You gain +2 to defence against Flashy supernatural attacks.

> Green Suit. You gain +2 when trying to hide in a supernatural environment.

BESW

> Contractual Show-Off. Pick a talent, like singing or fencing. Once per adventure you may describe how your talent can solve the current problem, no matter how ridiculously unrelated.

trogdor

04:29

lol

I would be mad at that last one, but it happens a lot so I can't really be XD

CTWind

@Magician That one almost sounds more like Continuity Error.

Magician

That works, too.

BESW

> Continuity Error. Once per scene you may remove a boost from the scene.

Magician

> Off-screen Drama. At the start of the session name two characters (you can name your character). For the duration of the session, these characters gain +3 instead of the usual +2 when spending fate points to affect one another.

BESW

> ACTING! You may use Physique instead of Rapport or Intimidate to overcome social obstacles. When you do, add Debris to the scene.

> Executive Meddling. At each significant milestone you may change a setting aspect instead of one of your character aspects.

BESW

04:48

> Crossover. You can use Contacts to create advantages representing your affiliation with characters from other campaigns your group has played.

> Practical effects. You can ignore and counteract stunts based on digital effects.

trogdor

that seems messy

BESW

Yes.

trogdor

in a hilarious way

BESW

Again, might need some fiddling before it hits play.

But... maybe not.

> If it's not on screen, it doesn't exist. You can use Stealth at any time, provided you spend a fate point to invoke an aspect representing the audience's diverted attention.

daze413

@Miniman remember your question if The Swine Prince was a Fiend? What's the creature type if it is an other-worldly being, summoned into our plane of existence, possessing a pig's body as a host, and gradually warping it to what it is? I'm thinking Aberration

trogdor

05:01

a lot of stunts need some work after being made though

it seems to come with the territory

Miniman

@daze413 Depends - which plane did it come from?

daze413

@Miniman it's cthulhu-oid, but then again, it really is up to me. :/ Any guidance if I should just make it- and every other swineNPC a fiend?

Miniman

@daze413 Mechanically speaking, depends if you want it to be affected by Protection from Good and Evil Magic Circle, Smit, and so on and so forth.

Thematically, Cthulu-ish stuff is Aberration, generally.

daze413

I have 4 areas the players can explore: Ruins, Cove, Weald, Warrens. The primary NPC types are, respectively, Undead, Humanoid (Sahuagin), monstrosity?/aberration?/fiend?, Plant. I was planning to make each area unique of types so different kinds of PCs can shine

BESW

Maybe it's a Cthulhoid Aberration that's making Fiends.

Miniman

05:09

@daze413 Not being sure how to classify "being inside an ordinary creature corrupting it", I went looking for an existing example - the gnoll fang of yeenoghu is a regular gnoll "possessed by a demonic spirit", and its type is given as Fiend, so whatever you decide the Swine Prince being is, it probably counts as that even in a pig's body.

daze413

@Miniman ooh, good point. So all the Swine NPCs are fiends. Thanks!

Miniman

@daze413 Well, assuming the possessing being is a fiend in the first place.

daze413

@Miniman In the trivia (I like to stick closest to the game), it says the swine NPCs are a reference to when Jesus banished evil spirits into a herd of pigs. So it works.

Miniman

Ah, cool.

trogdor

@BESW lol

BESW

05:32

> Mentor Lecture. Once per major milestone you can remove a mental consequence completely by playing out a scene where your mentor helps you deal with its effects.

trogdor

oh, for a second there I thought that whole scene was also in the characters head,... Mentor, Mental, same thing right?

XD

BESW

Well, if you're Luke Skywalker and your mentor is post-Death-Star Obi Wan...

trogdor

yeah, but for a lot of other people, that would be a lot more unhealthy

I mean, Obi Wan has a specific conceit that lets him be in Luke's head without actually being a figment of his imaginiation

daze413

@BESW what are those, btw? Are those for fate? house rules?

trogdor

@daze413 basically just random fate stunts that may or may not ever be refined and used

BESW

05:39

@daze413 Fate's stunt mechanic encourages inventing your own stunts based on some very broad guidelines.

trogdor

well, not always entirely random but wtv

BESW

The idea of "house rules" in Fate is kinda laughable; the whole point of Fate is that it's a flexible set of tools for making your own game.

trogdor

I can definitely see how that conclusion could be gotten to though

BESW

So we're having fun making up stunts that reflect metatextual tropes rather than in-universe fiction.

Because Fate's mechanical tool kit is designed as a set of generic mechanics waiting to be attached to specific narrative elements, they work equally well for diegetic and non-diegetic narrative elements.

trogdor

@BESW I think I just realized how weird we are for liking this stuff :P

daze413

05:45

@trogdor not at all. :D

BESW

We are the group with a campaign where the willpower of William Shatner turned a movie set into a spaceship.

daze413

If I wanted to start learning FATE, where do you recommend I start? Fate accelerated? Core? or somewhere else?

BESW

Fate Accelerated is a good no-frills introduction to the core mechanics.

daze413

do you recommend it for people with zero narrative-RPG background?

BESW

Fate Core is a good in-depth discussion of why and how the mechanics are what they are, with a bit of exploration into how they're malleable.

Atomic Robo RPG is probably the best so far for people who want a lot of pre-made fiddly bits to play with.

7

Q: Is there a Fate equivalent to the D&D Beginner box?

I have the opportunity to run an RPG at the local Library games day, which carries with it some stipulations: The players are likely new to pen & paper RPGs entirely. (And if they're not, they're almost certainly new to Fate since it's not well known around here.) I likely have people for 2 hou...

37

Q: Problems to look out for if you are a D&D group who play Fate for the first time?

Soon I will be hosting my first two games of Fate. One will be an intro-session with one GM and one player and the other will be a more serious gaming session with one GM and three players, which will probably contain multiple Fate sessions over the weekend. The group has a lot of experience pla...

dungeons-and-dragons fate system-introduction

30

Q: Spoilt for choice: helping traditional-system players adapt to narrative-control games

My group teethed on D&D 3.5 and loved 4e, but now we're eager to take advantage of FATE's more narrative- and character-driven philosophies. However, on our first (DFRPG) game last night, my players frequently seemed spoilt for choice: faced with "what do you want to do?" instead of "which of the...

dresden-files fate new-players system-introduction psychology

trogdor

05:56

@BESW indeed

daze413

@BESW I'll look into Roll for Shoes. Thanks!

BESW

@daze413 The tag wiki for roll-for-shoes has useful info and links.

BESW

08:56

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
[Bundle of Holding](https://bundleofholding.com/ "Great bulk deals with bonus charitable donations!");
[D&D Beyond](https://www.dndbeyond.com/ "Register for the D&D Beyond beta.");
[UScons](http://casualgamerevolution.com/blog/2016/01/2016-tabletop-gaming-conventions-a-comprehensive-list "List of RPG conventions in the US.");

2

> Hollywood hacking. You can always a keyboard or keypad interface Quickly instead of Carefully.

2

Anne Aunyme

09:59

Last night we had a game session and our GM showed us 4 pictures of monsters we had already encountered during the campaign. It was Golden Sun's elemental spirits. My first reaction was "I have already seen this one (the fire one) somewhere and it wasn't a long time ago."

Miniman

@AnneAunyme Ayyyyy.

Anne Aunyme

and then another player told me "Of course, it's miniman's profile picture"

Miniman

@AnneAunyme Wait, what?

The Oracle

1

Q: One-sided comment moderation

I bring this up with regards to this question, but it is something I have encountered repeatedly on this site, and something that apparently others have also noticed: Heavy-handed moderation. There is something I specifically object to, with regards to the linked question as well as in general: ...

discussion comments moderation

Anne Aunyme

Yeah, he is quite a rpg.se lurker

Miniman

10:02

o.O

Anne Aunyme

creepy, isn't it?

Miniman

Not creepy, just surprising.

Also, something seems vaguely wrong with people knowing what Mars Djinni look like because of me rather than from the game.

2

trogdor

lol

which game?

Miniman

@trogdor Golden Sun.

trogdor

ah, ok

Miniman

10:06

A fantastic JRPG that I would recommend to anyone who likes JRPGs.

trogdor

yeah that one

I do still intend to eventually pick it up

Miniman

Hooray!

trogdor

I also think I need to eventually like, actually play Chrono Trigger

because everyone and my brother have all said it is awesome

Ben

@Miniman Seconded

GS and Chrono Trigger are the only game that I have actually finished, and done so mulitple times

Miniman

@Ben The only game ever?

:P

trogdor

10:16

I think BoF 3 , Resident Evil 4, and the first Halo are just about the only ones for me

and all of those soooo many times I don't even have a count for em

Ben

@Miniman JRPG*

Oh, and FF7

trogdor

yeah if we only mean JRPG's, just BoF 3 for me XD

Miniman

I still haven't finished FF7 >.>

trogdor

I beat FF7 with my brother, but apparently I blocked out beating Sephiroth

Ben

@Miniman I think the problem is that once you get the airship... it kinda gets the feel of "Go wherever you like! and if you want a direction.... then just talk to EVERYBODY.... EVER..."

trogdor

10:19

because all I remember is getting killed by him a lot

Miniman

@Ben Nah, I really didn't get very far into it.

trogdor

but my brother insists that not only did we beat him, but that I was there when we did XD

I certainly didn't want to replay FF7 though

Ben

@Trogdor I had the same feeling with Ganon from the LoZ Gameboy series. There are just so many "Final bosses"!

trogdor

some of those bosses were too much

Ben

10:32

Indeed. I need to take time off work if I want to attempt that slog again! Haha

I wanted to check - does anyone know of any rules that states any minimum value when increasing HP on level up? I.e. "To a minimum of 1"

Erik

For which version of the game?

nitsua60

@Ben ^^

Miniman

@Ben None that I know of.

Ben

5e, sorry haha

Erik

There ought to be one, otherwise your hp could go down when you go up a level. I think there was a rule in 3.5e that you always gained at least 1 hp

Ben

10:46

You would think so. (RE my latest question), but I haven't found one.

Not without reading the PHB cover to cover, of course.

nitsua60

@Ben There quite-specifically isn't. PHB p.15 is where it would be.

Ben

So, gods will against it, You can actually decrease your HP when you level up.

Miniman

For that to happen, you'd have to have a 7 or 6 in Con

doppelgreener

There are so damn many ads and popovers on d20pfsrd nowadays I'm going to start linking to the Paizo PRD instead.

nitsua60

Sure, if you both have a negative con mod and for super-silly reasons decide to roll.

Miniman

10:49

Meaning you'd have to roll a 7 or 6, then deliberately assign it to Con

nitsua60

@Miniman and you have to decide to roll for HP

Which is unambiguously sub-optimal.

Ben

@Miniman Re - my latest question haha. That was inspired by a true story, for those who haven't seen

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yeah, I really think when you take the average it should be rounded down, not up

Erik

Or be told by the DM to roll :(

Miniman

@Ben Ah, I assumed we were looking at an 8.

nitsua60

10:51

@Erik ahh...

Erik

That's how my Warlock ended up with 9 hp at level 2. I didn't want to roll 'cause I just KNOW my luck with stuff like this :)

Ben

@Miniman Well, in that story, he did have an 8 CON, but when he reached level 4 (Clerics get an ASI at level 4) he chose a feat instead...

Miniman

@Ben Yeah, but he still couldn't lose HP that way.

Ben

At the very least, no.

Well - apparently we're wrong

It was clarified that the minimum health you could gain per level was 1 hp. You can not decrease in health at level up due to a negative stat. This clarification was a tweet, its not in the rulebooks. — Lino Frank Ciaralli 5 mins ago

nitsua60

11:07

@Ben I call BS on tweets

=)

Ben

I asked him to link it, so I can use it as a source, if it's legit

BESW

@Ben 3.5 had a similar rule, though some features explicitly broke it.

Ben

sageadvice.eu/2015/03/26/hit-dice-minimum

Jeremy Crawford is a solid source... yeh?

Miniman

@Ben Yep

Ben

Well then... I'll get cracking on fixing my answer

nitsua60

11:22

@Ben Jeremy's an official source. I have problems with his tweeting.

doppelgreener

@BESW [ponder] A relationship with a god (or godhead) is an approach that can do anything within that god's domain. When you use this approach, you don't roll; you use the flat rating of the approach. If you succeed, the approach rating goes down one point. You can increase the approach rating by 1 by performing narrative tasks proportionate to its current rating which the god would approve of.

nitsua60

30

Q: Where do I find the "official" rules for D&D 5e?

I play D&D 5e and sometimes come here with questions. But sometimes I see things referenced here as sources that I don't have or aren't aware of.... Which are the "official rules" for D&D 5e, and where do I find them?

dnd-5e

Ben

I've added this to the answer, so as to not completely upheave everything I've put in my answer:

Forewarning: This is only using the PHB as a source. This information is corrected by a tweet from Jeremy Crawford stating that the minimum for HP increases is no less than 1

BlueMoon93

11:55

Hey fam

Erik

hi

BESW

Hafa hafa.

BlueMoon93

I'm building an illusion dragon for my dnd 5e campaign

Ysera style, for warcraft fans

Im reading up on the monster manual for illusion based dragons

but i'm not sure they are actually a thing

any suggestions?

Patta

Like... a dragon that casts illusions? Or a dragon that IS actually just an illusion? Or what do you mean?

BlueMoon93

Casts illusions

Im reading the green dragon stat block

Seems to be the one most similar to this in the description

Uses fog and vines as lair actions

I could make these to be illusions

BESW

12:02

Back in 3.5 I had a black dragon that specialised in dream and shadow magic.

Patta

shouldn't be too hard to just give him illusion spells or something, right? I have no idea about dragons in 5e, but if they can still cast spells, switching those out should be easy?

BlueMoon93

But Im also looking for other illusion-ish ideas for attacks and powers

@BESW remember the name?

@Patta I dont have much experience in the spell schools and what not. Got any tips for interesting illusion spells?

BESW

Carnifex the Shadowfather, but it's not like you can look him up.

BlueMoon93

homebrew?

Patta

nope, I don't like illusions, personally :D

So I never bothered using many in 5e...

BESW

12:05

If that's the word for using all out-of-the-book materials according to the official rules on creating characters to customise an enemy from the Monster Manual.

BlueMoon93

Erm, its the word for custom content, non-official

Well, i'll try to come up with some ideas

maybe ill ask for advice later

Erik

Creatures that dabble in illusions are hard to do right. But very cool if done right, too.

For what it's worth, TheAngryGM has a piece on the topic. Might be useful (beware: NSFW)
http://theangrygm.com/ask-angry-cleaning/

BlueMoon93

Oh nice

Aaron

Good morning

Erik

afternoon :)

Ben

12:18

Evening

Ben

12:38

CR = Total party level... correct?

I.e. CR20 is appropriate for a party of 4 x level 5?

Erik

no

Aaron

Not quite no

Erik

CR20 is appropriate roughly to a party of 4 charactesr of level 20

Ben

Ohhhh

Right

Erik

or rather; should be a moderate challenge for it

Aaron

12:39

Here you go d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/#Designing-Encounters

Erik

I think Ben plays 5e, so those rules probably don't work very well

Aaron

Oh.

Well fine then :P

Ben

Yeh, 5e primarily

Erik

There's a chapter on encounter building in the Dungeon Master's Guide that explains how to use CR and party level when building challenges to gauge difficulty

Ben

Cool. I'm not overly adept at GMing, I work primarily off in-game experience, and work with the help from a fellow GM, so I haven't spent too much time in the DMG

Anne Aunyme

13:01

About dumping Con: if you have a negative modifier and you rule that you can't get less than 1hp per level, choosing to roll is more optimal than choosing the "average"

since on average you will replace your 1s on the die by 2s (or 3s if you have 6 or 7 Con)

Erik

You can even cheat the system by making sure you have very low con when levelling; you could end up with more hp than you could even get otherwise.

But that's edge cases on edge cases :)

Ben

@AnneAunyme Umm, no I don't think it works like that. In the case of negative Con, if you get anything below 1, you still get 1 HP. If you get a 1, then you get 1 HP, if you get higher than that, then you get whatever you roll.

You don't add 1 to the roll.

Aaron

@Ben I think the idea behind the idea is that if you improve your con you could retroactively gain 1 HP per level.

So lets say your modifier is -3. You roll your hit die, lets say it's a d6

doppelgreener

VTC no system specified

Aaron

13:16

@doppelgreener That seems like it could be a good system agnostic? I'd bet a lot of systems suffer from that

LegendaryDude

@Aaron The problem is that system is important for that type of thing. Different systems handle that situation in different ways in the rules.

doppelgreener

@Aaron that does not make a question system agnostic. "answers might be applicable to lots of systems" is not the same as "the question is agnostic of any system". there are many popularly asked about systems here which have definite guidance on handling this scenario, including that it should never even be possible: fate, dungeon world, etc.

@LegendaryDude yes.

Erik

What @AnneAunyme means is for example 1d4-2 hp has an average you can take of (3-2) which is 1 per level, but if you roll you might get a 2, for an average of 1.33 per level

Miniman

@Aaron You play Pathfinder, right? In pathfinder, the answer would just be"Take 20 and move on with your life".

But in many systems, that's not going to be a thing.

Aaron

Hmm, I suppose. I was more thinking it was an issue with the players than the system is why I suggested that.

LegendaryDude

13:19

@Aaron Yes, but if the system can handle that type of player interaction (say, in the way Dungeon World does) then it matters to the answers.

doppelgreener

12

A: Can multiple people attempt to heal the same consequence in Fate Core?

Recovering from a consequence usually has no penalty for failure. It's an overcome action, and failure at an overcome doesn't come with a penalty. If something was opposing you somehow, though, they'd succeed, which would probably be bad. As for whether you can attempt recovery multiple times, t...

28

A: How do I handle players brute-forcing a skill until they succeed?

Brute forcing is going to be solved by application of two principles. Neither of them are totally rules-oriented. The rules aren't interested in stopping brute-forcing, because sometimes it's fun: you're in a contest, you need to get through that door before someone finds you, and it might be fu...

e.g. a couple of responses completely specific to Fate, regardless of to what degree the person's involved

14

Q: What are the limits to repeating a move in Dungeon World?

As far as I'm informed, you could just repeat a move until you get the desired effect, since there is no cooldown or mana. Are there limits to repeating a move, and if so what are they?

dungeon-world actions

one for dungeon world

these basically say "your scenario shouldn't even be happening quite like that, here's how you should be using the game mechanics properly"

if they never specified their system, we'd never recognise these issues and help resolve them.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Also, it makes it difficult to identify duplicates.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Yes, that too.

LegendaryDude

13:39

@Erik Fun fact, that question actually comes from our own @daze413

Erik

Which question? Am I missing something here?

LegendaryDude

@Erik The question asked by the emailer in the Angry email column.

"Dazed asks..."

Didn't realize there was more than one question asked in that column. The first email in the article.

Erik

Oh that question :)

It's fun to see how people move between communities like that. It was a good question (and a good answer)

LegendaryDude

shoot

link did not copy :|

Jan 3 at 9:06, by daze413

my question is answered! I feel all giddy!

doppelgreener

Jan 3 at 9:06, by daze413

http://theangrygm.com/ask-angry-cleaning/

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