TRPG General Chat

Ben

00:06

How goes the day

trogdor

pretty good here

Ben

Question... has anyone run a D&D game focussed primarily on character development, rather than story/combat?

@trogdor That is good to hear :)

trogdor

:)

@Ben it doesn't seem to me that D&D is designed for that

doesn't mean you couldn't do it, but it isn't an optimal system

Ben

Well, almost any system is I suppose.

I mean, if you remove combat, levelling, and all that jazz, you're just left with a story.

Shalvenay

hey there @Ben

Ben

00:10

@Shalvenay Hey! Long time! How you been?

Shalvenay

@Ben alright here, as for you?

Ben

@Shalvenay Incredibly busy haha. Whatever free time I do have nowadays is devoted almost exclusively to RPing haha

Shalvenay

@Ben hahaha

Ben

I have 2 D&D games (one online), a Numenera game, a Dark Heresy game, another D&D game waiting for an appropriate time slot in the week, and one game that I've just started with a friend (just the two of us), that is basically just entirely story telling. Lol.

Shalvenay

@Ben LOL. I have an AD&D game in-person and a dormant 5e game online

Adeptus

00:14

@Ben If you remove story and combat... what's left?

Ben

@Adeptus Well, I think that's over-summarizing. I'll elaborate a little.

Shalvenay

the 5e game is dormant because we can't get a time slot (as usual)

Ben

@Shalvenay I know them feels XD

Shalvenay

also got another 5e game upcoming in Feb (with Nitsua and co.) but I'm not sure exactly when that will slot in

Ben

Basically, the situation was that I had a friend that was going to join our online game, and they wanted to get used to the whole "play-by-post" system. So I created a bit of a back-story narrative, using our characters. I wanted to avoid any levelling, to keep our characters at the same level as the rest o0f the party, so I removed combat. It basically just became an interactive narrative.

Compared to all my other RP games, character development advanced way further than I've ever experienced, in just two sessions.

trogdor

00:20

isn't that basically a play by post game instead of D&D then?

I mean, it doesn't seem like you are really using the system anymore?

Ben

Yeah, I only said D&D cos that's the game these characters were created in.

trogdor

ah

we actually have done some experimentation with moving characters from one system to another

Ben

I do want to try and bring some of that back however. But I don't want anything to conflict.

@trogdor oh?

I think my problem is that these characters co-exist in two separate stories

trogdor

yeah, we had a Fate Atomic Robo game going, where we moved one session into Don't Rest Your Head because of the theme of the session

it worked really well

@Ben ah, I don't think we have ever done that

Adeptus

@Ben That doesn't sound like removing story... that sounds like 100% story

Ben

00:27

@Adeptus yeah haha

trogdor

yeah, that too

semantics

Ben

@trogdor I did do some preliminary thinking on this... and if I did bring some of the RP elements back (like skills, and combat etc.), perhaps using the character development from the main campaign can be used in the "Interactive story"?

trogdor

@Ben I am not sure what you mean, these are two actually separate stories that these same characters are in right?

would moving the more developed characters into the story they are not already in hurt anything?

Ben

We basically decided that the Interactive story was a "back story" for the characters. The primary campaign does involve other players, and it would be unfair if any kind of xp development happened out-of-game, obviously.

trogdor

oh

Ben

00:31

So, if say, we level up in the main campaign, those new abilities could be brought over to the back story, is what I was thinking

trogdor

so some of the characters in the game are not benifiting from the development you mean

@Ben oh,.... that is weird

if your group has no problem with it working that way I see no issue with it

Ben

Ok, I'll just plan it out a bit so that every one is on the same page haha

trogdor

I mean

you should really ask them if they are ok with it

could go either way I am sure

BESW

I'm Kickstarting a Limited Edition Spirit Dragon art print. Limited run of just 100. Check it out today.… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/826267787945443328

Tweeted by TylerWalpole on January 31, 2017 at 3:16 AM

trogdor

if no one finds it too weird or silly that their characters just learned a move in the future and now know it in the past too just cause,... then no problem

Ben

00:34

We have 2 games. Game 1 is the primary campaign. it involves other players, combat etc. Game 2 is just me and my friend, using the same characters, in the same world, but in a separate time period (roughly 10 years before)

trogdor

I would personally be not so great with that being the case, but I am a weird person in many respects, so XD

Ben

So, my plan is that when the characters level up in Game 1, those abilities carry over to Game 2. But not the other way around

Does that make better sense?

trogdor

it makes the same sense

I just find it strange from the perspective of someone who is kinda obsessive about chronology

which I am to a certain degree XD

Ben

Ahh lol.

Well to cushion that blow, I am hopefully thinking about introducing combat back into the game, and therefore the simulation of skill development

daze413

0

Q: Priorities for a variant human tempest cleric level 1-8

I'd like optimize my character for a game I just joined. I chose a variant human, tempest cleric, stats were rolled. Full stats (before racial bonuses) are 12/12/12/13/14/17, so I will have 12 INT/CHA/DEX, 18 WIS and either 14 STR and CON or 15 STR and 13 CON. Skill proficiencies I picked up a...

so many problems... :/ Maybe if the OP constrained it to just up to 4th level?

@Ben but what if the game 2 characters die? do they not ever die?

Ben

00:42

@daze413 ...I don't see why they would choose 15 str 13 con over 14/14

@daze413 Well, effectively, they can't die. So I don't see that happening (I am running the Game 2, therefore I can fudge as much as I want/need to).

daze413

@Ben yeah, always stat with even numbers, right?

Ben

@daze413 Well, 15 gives +2, 13 only give +1. Whereas 14/14 give +2 to both stats

Adeptus

@Ben Stat boosts from level-up are +2, right? So, if your stat's even, you can jump to the next even?

daze413

Oh wait, he gives the reason why he wants the 15 strength; it's coz he wants to wear plate mail soon

Ben

Are they?

daze413

00:54

@Adeptus If by +2 you mean you get a +2 to one stat or +1 to 2 stats, yes

Ben

Ahem... excuse me one sec... [informs group that levelling was done incorrectly]

@daze413 How much str do you need to wear plate?

daze413

@Ben 15

Ben

Ok, so he wants to wear it from the get-go, rather than wait

daze413

Im writing up an answer. Yeah but problem is: he can't afford plate until about 5th level (from experience) unless the DM is giving out gold like (insert funny metaphor)

Ben

[oprah meme]

daze413

01:03

so he still won't reap the benefits of the odd stat

BlackVegetable

I don't think he's here but I just wanted to thank SevenSidedDie for his contributions to my starting experience with Dungeon World. Were it not for this website, I never would have found the system.

daze413

you should @ him. just edit the chat and place an @ before his name. I think that still works to notify

BlackVegetable

Could that potentially disturb him if he didn't want to get notifications?

trogdor

@BlackVegetable if you put @ before SSD's name in the chat, you can ping him

BlackVegetable

I don't want to take him away from family time or whatnot. (I'm used to Slack ettiqute.)

Ben

01:05

@SevenSidedDie, @BlackVegetable wishes to thank you :)

trogdor

@ SevenSidedDie like this except without the space

BlackVegetable

Heh, but not to the point of disturbing him from non-SE time.

daze413

nah, he'll login when he's free (unless theres some sort of mod thing that you HAVE TO login when you're pinged?)

trogdor

no

daze413

so there's no real disturbance, I think.

BlackVegetable

01:06

I wasn't sure what would happen for any user that got pinged in chat. I've probably used SE chat 5 times ever.

trogdor

he gets pinged either way, and then when logged in he will see it

BlackVegetable

Ah, neat.

daze413

it's not a big deal, you just get a notification in the top left

BlackVegetable

Ok, cool. That's suitable then.

Hah! You just have a tag for jeff.

That's awesome, or possibly an unintended error for an acronym I don't recognize.

daze413

hey, i'll hop aboard the SSD thanking train. @SevenSidedDie thanks for introducing me to strolen's citadel! Havent worked up the courage to submit but I've been mooching tons of stuff for my games.

trogdor

01:09

it might be for a game called that, or someone random made a random tag

if it's the second one it will get removed

BlackVegetable

It returns a 404 when clicked so...

BESW

It's a temporary joke referring to the time @doppelgreener's browser re-named the chat.

4

BlackVegetable

LOL

trogdor

oooh

XD

BlackVegetable

Oh man, keep that!

BESW

01:10

And yeah, chat tags don't have to map to main-site tags, which is good because we use them mostly to signal to folks that this isn't a computer game chat.

BlackVegetable

A computer game chat?

Adeptus

not-a-real-tag

BESW

We get folks who think this is a room for computer/video game RPGs.

BlackVegetable

Oh, that's a fair misunderstanding.

BESW

@Adeptus meta-tag

Ben

01:12

So I was just having a quick chat to my group about character levelling (who did what etc.) and I just needed to clarify with our last player, who is an orc fighter. I was informed that he was in fact shopping, so of course, a small scene immediately popped into my head:

[Giant orc standing in the fruit section, inspecting oranges]
[Asks a nearby, terrified assistant if they are organic]
"Uhh... n-no? I don't b-believe so?"
[Orc crushes the orange in one hand, and flips the orange stand]
[Begins inspecting the mandarins]

Adeptus

@BESW youre-it

(can't use apostrophes in tags)

BlackVegetable

Remember, by simply re-arranging letter orderings and swapping one letter for another, you can turn meta-tag into cat-meat.

daze413

@Ben [The Mandarins stare at him and hides his children inside their house]

Ben

@daze413 The fruit, not the adorable Asian people... hahaha

BlackVegetable

lol

Ben

01:16

They are spelled the same however, which adds to the confusion

BlackVegetable

To an Orc, they might be equally delicious.

Ben

Most likely haha

daze413

oh @BESW ! We played Great Ork Gods until the wee hours of the night. It was a blast! Had issues with Obscurer of Things barely used, though

BESW

That's not uncommon. If you want to push it, give them a scene inside a house or something.

I'm glad you had fun.

Ben

01:31

New daily comic strip idea... "Ragnar the Orc in everyday life".

BESW

Conan the Salaryman

@ConanSalaryman, Hyboria

Previously: Warrior. Thief. Bandit. Smuggler. Mercenary. Pirate. Buccaneer. Soldier. King. Currently: Corporate Drone. Doesn't tweet on the weekend, by Crom.

2.6k tweets, 5.4k followers, following 0 users

3

Ben

[Sitting in the cinema, someone's on their phone]
[Reaches down, crushes it in one hand]
[Continues watching the movie]

@BESW These are brilliant haha

Shalvenay

01:54

@BlackVegetable -- depends on whose Orcs you're talking about :P

cues orc girl walking into the tavern carrying a lamb with a broken leg

BESW

I'm fond of the unfinished Elf vs Orc, myself.

2

Ben

02:17

I do wonder how people find these gems...

BESW

Well, about 13 years ago I websurfed into a little webcomic and became active on its forum...

Seriously, more than half of my Internet activity can be tracked back to recommendations and links and friends from that webcomic's community. It's all chains of community. Someone way back in the day linked to elfwood, which is where I discovered Ursula Vernon. Ursula Vernon got a twitter, which I followed, and she re-tweeted Conan the Salaryman.

Stack Exchange is one of the few online things that I got directly from IRL; an RPG friend pointed me at it.

Ben

02:37

Fair enough. My Internet Footprint really isn't that large. I get weird looks when I tell people that I'm on Facebook, and only Facebook.

BESW

I only use Facebook for the chat, because there are some friends only contactable that way.

Otherwise it's a cesspit of noise that I can't control.

Mostly I use the Feedly RSS and follow folks who share a lot of stuff so I get a broader view of the world.

Ben

@BESW As someone who suffers from a level of industrial deafness, I know exactly the frustration you mean.

Shalvenay

I don't use Facebook at all or have a Twitter account

(the only Twitter feed I read is the NTSB's but that's only for their press-release-lets)

Ben

@Shalvenay Not at all a bad thing. Perhaps that's part of the stress in my life... Some need or addiction to be a part of the social-media thing, on some level.

BESW

Mmm. This is pretty much the only online community I interact with instead of just observe.

Shalvenay

02:52

pretty much the same here -- I poke at blog comments every now and again, but the Stack is the only thing I seriously interact with

well, Stacks plural. :P

Ben

Well... that aside, who wants to help me build a Big Bad Guy

I have some basics... just need to refine it

Her...

Them...

Shalvenay

what sort of concept are you after?

Ben

The basic is that she is an angular woman... Perhaps Elvish at first glance? But maybe something else upon closer inspection... (not yet decided if she is a Tiefling). She is a rather merciless caster of sorts, burning a goblin with a flame-thrower spell, for simply losing sight of their target, and has control of a small number of hidden creatures, used to track down her target when the other lackeys fail her.

Then there's her off-sider: The Orc. He's almost troll-like in size and strength, and apparent intelligence.

Can Unseen Servants attack? (D&D 5e)

@BESW Thankyou very much for this. My day has improved immensely

BESW

03:11

Yey!

Adeptus

03:30

@Ben maybe I should have a look at it - I'm in need of a day-improver

Thunderforge

@Ben Is the woman expected to be a recurring villain or a one-off?

Ben

Ok... here's a question... It may be fairly simple, but I'm not entirely sure, due to the situation - what constitutes an "Attack" in D&D 5e, especially since an Unseen servant can't "attack"?

@Thunderforge I'm thinking a recurring villain. The one that is always on your trail, but is intimidating enough that you don't really want to turn around and face.

So they always have an air of mystery about them

Thunderforge

The 5e SRD on an Attack Action is a little vague, probably intentionally. It definitely seems like part of it is an intent to harm though.

Heh, in my experience D&D players would never turn away from an encounter and would turn around and face her anyway.

Ben

So, the instruction of "Find them, and if you do, make them yell" is abstract enough to allow?

BESW

[unseen servant tickles targets viciously]

[unseen servant tells target she's won a new car]

Thunderforge

03:37

GM's call I guess. I think it's pretty clear that they aren't intended to be allowed to damage a target's hit points.

The spell description says it's mindless too, so I guess it's not very good at improvising.

And it doesn't mention if it can speak.

Ben

@BESW [unseen servant trips them]

@BESW No, yours are far better haha

Thunderforge

Ooh, this site has a question about this

2

Q: Unseen Servant use in combat

Unseen Servants act as some sort of force that can perform simple tasks. Is it possible to use them to aid in battle while doing so? For example: Have several servants told to carry heavy large metal plates around some character. (Basically creating a barrier that would protect the character ...

dnd-4e

BESW

Of course we do!

Thunderforge

It's for 4e, but I think all of it applies to 5e too.

Ben

...Would it be fair to say that "'Pain' does not always mean 'damage'"?

BESW

03:42

I think we're getting firmly into "what do hit points mean?" territory, and that's a treacherous quagmire where I can't follow.

Thunderforge

I don't know what your gaming group is like, but personally, I'd just do whatever I want to for the villain and ignore the rules. You could say that she has some sort of experimental variant that only she knows about.

Ben

@BESW Well I'd like to avoid that with a scenic route, so don't worry.

Thunderforge

Then again, maybe that wouldn't fly with your group. I once was part of a group where the GM had a monster attack in a certain way and a player opened up the monster manual to rules lawyer why his monster shouldn't be allowed to attack that way.

BESW

Many groups feel the rules are an important check on GM power, and are necessary to keep the game "fair."

Thunderforge

If I were the GM, I'd just say "it's my monster and it can follow my own rules; it's not the one in the monster manual."

BESW

03:44

(And/or suspect that the developers were careful enough that changing the rules could result in everything falling apart like a house of cards on a bowl of Jell-O.)

Ben

@Thunderforge True. However in this situation, as I am the GM, I feel that an aesthetic "pain" is viable. I.e. you stub your toe, and it's sprained for a while, but you don't lose any hit points for it.

Shalvenay

@BESW something that tends not to be true in D&D-land

Ben

Same token, an unseen servant might be able to "attack" in the broad sense of the word, causing you to yell, but still not lose hit points.

BESW

@Shalvenay You might say so, but I couldn't possibly comment.

Thunderforge

You could also give a temporary status ailment like "sprained ankle: –5ft. pace". Again, I'm in the camp of "you're the GM, do what you want"

BESW

03:46

@Ben Or put it into mechanical terms: a Will save vs being scared, or a Fort save vs being hurt, with success meaning you don't cry out, but no further penalty.

Thunderforge

Depending on how important screaming is, @BESW's suggestion would be a great way too.

BESW

In my experience, D&D players are generally okay with New Stuff so long as they get to roll against it instead of having it forced on them by pure narrative fiat.

Thunderforge

I think that the Unseen Servants would be less of a threat if there are no consequences to failing a roll or whatever.

Ben

Yeah. That is a great idea. My situation was fairly simple however, Just an unseen servant latching onto your shoulder. A surprise like that would make anyone shout

Thunderforge

Sometimes it is fun to give just a thematic scariness. I guess I was thinking what to do longer term.

BESW

03:48

@Ben That's great. I'd just suggest giving it some basic mechanic like a save, to latch into the game engine and avoid making the players spectators to their own characters.

Ben

It's good advice. And I can see the situation happening again.

BESW

If the scream is enough to attract trouble which could impose long-term effects (like a nasty combat scene), then the original cause doesn't need its own lasting effect as well.

nitsua60

@BESW amen to that.

Thunderforge

I'd agree with that. A scream that could impose long term effects is fine.

Ben

@BESW I did use it once already. It was used on an NPC, which brought attention to the group who were trying to be sneaky... just to add tension to the atmosphere

Thunderforge

03:50

Note that according to the rules, an Unseen Servant has to be within 60 feet of the caster. So if they know it's an Unseen Servant, they may start searching for its source. Then again, you could just say that she has some special wand or something that lets her be farther away.

Ben

So if I use it on an actual PC, I think the con/str/dex save is a great idea

Thunderforge

A Wisdom save might be good against screaming.

BESW

I'd probably allow the player to choose the stat they use on the save, provided they narrate how the character is dealing with the situation in a way that justifies that stat.

Thunderforge

"My hand dashes up to my mouth to cover it before I scream. Dex save!"

BESW

"A proper gentleman does not scream, no matter the circumstance. I'm rolling Charisma."

Ben

03:55

"I should not swear in front of a lady. Wisdom save"

d20

Dice Service

6

Ben

"fffffffffffiddlesticks"

Thunderforge

"I whip out my flask and down half of it before I even have a chance to think about what's happening. Con save!"

(Then again, they took out the "Drunk" condition that D&D Next playtest had).

BESW

In Bubblegumshoe, it'd probably just be rolling Cool.

Thunderforge

"Cool" always seemed like a weird skill to me. FFG Star Wars has it too.

Most skills can be described as an action. "I repair this". "I persuade them". "I cool that thing."

BESW

04:01

In Bubblegumshoe it's a combination skill/hp/permission mechanic.

Thunderforge

Ah, I see.

BESW

Makes a lot of sense for a game about teenagers.

Thunderforge

I was about to say that "coolness" isn't really measurable, but I guess for teenagers it is.

Ben

"How cool?"
"7. 7 Cool"

BESW

For example, going into the Teacher's Lounge costs at least 2 Cool: it's an Adult Place you're Not Supposed To Be. 3 Cool if one of the teachers in there is glowering at you.

But if you have a teacher friend who'll invite you in, you can spend 1 from your relationship with the teacher instead.

trogdor

04:04

@Thunderforge well, the way I see it, it isn't just how cool you are in a social structure, it's also meant to measure how cool under pressure you are

BESW

If you're reduced to 0 Cool any time except in the middle of a throwdown, you turn into a blubbering snotty mess.

trogdor

as in "keeping your cool"

BESW

(In a throwdown you can go into negative Cool, but it'll have repercussions later.)

Shalvenay

04:19

@Ben Jherala: "I've sworn worse than that. Spending a while on a sailing ship will do that to you."

Adeptus

@Thunderforge Cyberpunk 2020 has Cool as an attribute, not a skill. They have something like a saving throw, where you roll against your Cool to see if you... well, lose your cool... (but you don't lose your Cool)

Ben

@Shalvenay Hahaha

BESW

Yeah, Bubblegumshoe--being a Gumshoe game--can have it be a skill AND a health/sanity track.

Anaphory

09:58

@Ben There is at least a relative scale of coolness: gocomics.com/phoebe-and-her-unicorn/2017/01/25

BESW

10:11

> Cool people get to have their own math. Roll a d6 at the start of each session. Once during the session, after you roll 4dF you may replace one of those dice with the result of your d6 roll.

eimyr

doot

BESW

Yopp.

Magician

> 2+2=5. Whenever you roll exactly 2 on your dice, an invokation of an aspect for +2 brings the total bonus to +5.

> The number between 7 and 9. Whenever the total of your check, after all applicable bonuses, is greater than 7 by exactly 1, it becomes 9.

BESW

> 1+1=3 Whenever two people successfully help a third, and you're one of the three, the person being helped gets +3 instead of +2 from the helpers.

Anaphory

@BESW "Sufficiently Large One"?

Urist McDorf

10:21

You're making my head hurt Whenever you use any of those stunts against an opponent with a Science skill of at least +1, they suffer one track of mental damage

BESW

> 1729. Because you know how to nerd-snipe, you get +4 instead of +2 the first time you invoke an opponent's nerdy character aspect in a conflict.

3

Urist McDorf

I'm not too good at impromptru

Magician

> One, two, many, lots. Numbers above 3 are a mystery to you. Treat any number greater than that in a check involving you, yours or opponents, as 4.

Anaphory

@Magician Oh, so many ties!

BESW

> Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah. You can succeed at any counting task without rolling, if you let the GM place a Distracted boost on you.

> Sufficiently large 1. When your total result on an Overcome check would be +1, you can instead make it +2.

eimyr

10:30

One is the largest number Whenever you succeed with exactly one shift, you may place "Disproven" boost on the scene.

Anaphory

(The phrase behind that was “One plus one equals three, for sufficiently large one”. I thought it would make it even better if that helper was a sufficiently large person.)

eimyr

@Anaphory for a sufficiently large person any mathematical theorem can be proven by lack of opposition.

Urist McDorf

@eimyr And yet, smbc-comics.com/comic/the-largest-number

BESW

Hmm.... [rummages for link]

Urist McDorf

SMBC God is such a troll.

eimyr

10:34

@UristMcDorf That's easy. Splorch = 1 and Foofercorg = 0

BESW

> Proof by Profanity. You can use Provoke instead of a Science skill during brainstorms.

Anaphory

> Ultimo! Ben Gurion! When you are defending and at least +4 below the attacker, spend 2 FP to win with one shift, full stop.

BESW

(I love "Funny Methods of Mathematical Proof.")

Urist McDorf

@eimyr But he said that two is one plus one. And yet splorch plus one is splorch. Therefore, either one is not splorch or one = tw- wait. Damn.

eimyr

Proof by assumption of thesis. You can use Empathy instead of Science in challenges when you are the listening party.

Anaphory

10:38

@BESW If we are at that, let me swap to gksoft.com/a/fun/catch-lion.html and say:

eimyr

@UristMcDorf Splorch plus one is splorch, because it maxed out and 1+1 = 2, but that's a set operation, as in splorch + splorch = two splorches. It is deceptively reasonable.

Urist McDorf

Hmm

I have nothin'

Anaphory

> The Geometrical Inversion Method You may pursue an enemy using Science, but the GM may place a Trapped Inside boost on you.

BESW

We are rapidly approaching Tolkien Calculus.

Urist McDorf

Amazinf

eimyr

11:07

@BESW How is it going with using Discord?

BESW

In what sense?

eimyr

Did it prove superior to other means of communication for RPGs?

BESW

Eh, I like having video where it's feasible. But Discord's fine.

trogdor

yeah, and video wouldn't help Vi much anyway

and discord also lets me listen in on the game a little more easily

at the very least it gives a better function for muting myself

eimyr

how come it's easier?

trogdor

11:10

XD

BESW

Yeah, for a voice-only game Discord's pretty ideal.

trogdor

@eimyr I can click just once to go into a voice chat room, and I think I even start muted on it

(and if that second one isn't the case I just have to click to mute too)

whereas in like, skype, a person clicking on the other end is needed too

BESW

I've got it set up so observers like Troggy can listen but not speak.

trogdor

and I am not 100% sure, but I think Discord even handles the number of people involved better than Skype would

eimyr

I see. Any comparisons to Hangouts?

BESW

11:13

Hangouts has more bells and whistles.

And requires more proficiency from every user; Discord requires the host to be pretty proficient, but everyone else can just stumble in.

doppelgreener

12:23

@BESW Hangouts also operates on the basis of calls which are established when everyone's there and then people get invited to them or may drop out of them. Discord works on the basis there just being a voice channel that's always available and you can come and go without fuss, it's more user friendly to a large group.

e.g. a friend of mine has a Discord channel shared with some guild members from a game, and its members just join a voice channel whenever they're around and feel like talking and can immediately pick up conversations with friends. In Hangouts, Skype, and other services that use the call model, the call isn't passively there, and there's some effort involved that makes casually coming and going not a thing that happens.

BESW

Yup.

That's what makes it possible for Troggy to eavesdrop easily.

Urist McDorf

Aren't there locked channels?

doppelgreener

In which service?

Urist McDorf

I know our RPG discord has an invite-only "secrets" voice channel

Discord.

Oh

I misread

Sorry

doppelgreener

Right, but that's a matter of being able to perpetually see it once you're invited, right?

Urist McDorf

12:33

Actually I think the admin can kick us out too

And currently the admin is the GM

doppelgreener

Discord has a pretty solid roles and permissions model, and I know you can provide permission to see channels on a user-by-user basis, or assign it to a role and give the user that role.

I've never seen a comment suggesting to fix something get so many unicorn points before.

+15! I guess that comes from the question being in HNQ?

SmokeDetector

15:22

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: How do Ability Bonuses and Penalties Stack? by Nick Carter on rpg.stackexchange.com

Urist McDorf

15:38

Neat

eimyr

15:53

@nitsua60 [wave]

doppelgreener

16:28

@BESW I keep seeing this and thinking "how did that get 1729 stars?"

eimyr

@doppelgreener now it's just mathematically incorrect

doppelgreener

@eimyr hahaha, good move

@trogdor i know right? what a superb way to handle it, too

BlackVegetable

16:46

@SevenSidedDie hey, in case you were just dying to know why I didn't follow up on my Druid shapeshifting question, we had to cancel our last session so I won't be able to follow up on the results of your answer until this Saturday's session is over.

I know you were just on the edge of your seat, wondering about that.

SevenSidedDie

18:14

@BlackVegetable I hope it goes well this weekend! GMing for a Druid is always a bit of a wild ride.

@BlackVegetable Also, you're very welcome for introducing you to Dungeon World! Discovering new RPGs is a side effect of the site I really enjoy.

@daze413 Oh yeah, Strolen's Citadel is one of those hidden gems of the Internet. :D I'm glad you've been getting good stuff out of it!

BlackVegetable

I wanted to make sure you didn't think I was ignoring my statement that I'd find a way to update you in a "couple days." I didn't expect the cancellation. I also discovered a neat way to make up for missing players. I'll mention it in chat in a few minutes.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Ah, okay! (The nice thing about RPG.se is that if things slip, there're never “to old” to come back to.)

@BlackVegetable I am all ears — we have our Golem missing for the next two weeks, and I'm still pondering how to handle the character, especially since they just provoked a Boss Fight and the Golem is half of the party's combat specialists.

BlackVegetable

18:29

Urgh, that sounds trickier. My idea mostly works if the party stops at a "safe/camp" spot.

My party consists of a Bard, Druid, Cleric, and Thief. The Cleric is my wife so it is unlikely she'll ever be one of the people that cannot make it (because in that case, I am likely bound by the same scheduling constraint.)

The other three are pretty "flippant" characters that could reasonably leave the party to go on their own side-adventure.

So the idea is, if someone cannot make it to a session (especially the bard who has the most constrained schedule), in the fiction they leave without notice, to the surprise of the party. The next session they can attend, they return with a tale of why they left, where they went and what they did there. Then they'll pull something out of their pack and use it to explain part of their story. However, the GM will choose the item for them, forcing them to improvise into their story, how the

GM-selected item was relevant. Hilarity should ensue.

The item will permanently be their possession.

But it might be useless, such as a half-eaten snake.

That wouldn't be as useful for a Golem, nor for a non-Dungeon World game.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Ooh, I like that. Improv, but with a prompt, is always easier than improv from scratch. I've been considering using the homebrew move I'm Back for this kind of thing (haven't yet because we haven't seen how the pacing will work out after we finish the first dungeon), but I might want to tweak it now. A GM-picked item is more interesting/flexible than the pick list from that move.

@BlackVegetable Yeah, for the Golem I'm considering having them get off one starting shot with their newly-revealed Eye Cannon power (they multiclassed the Mech move from the Mechanic — both Inverse World classes), then have them shut down or enter maintenance mode due to a power surge or something.

BlackVegetable

19:03

That's an interesting move.

I like the idea of them still getting at least one roll for it.

SevenSidedDie

19:16

@BlackVegetable I do in theory like having the roll decide whether it went well or with complications (or on a miss, I get to make a move right away), but in practice I suspect there would be a critical threshold where the move gets triggered often enough that its 9- results keep taking over sessions and derailing the activities of the players who weren't absent. I can imagine it taking over the spotlight for much of a session rather significantly. Homebrewed moves are always a bit of a gamble. :)

That's part of why I'm hesitating about blessing it as an available campaign move; I don't yet know enough about our attendance and in-game pacing to judge yet whether it would complement the unfolding campaign or hijack it.

BlackVegetable

19:33

What if the 7-9 indicated they wrapped everything up, but they sustained some kind of injury along the way (debility, missing HP, lost resource)? And then only a 6- triggered the past catching up to them?

@SevenSidedDie What if the 7-9 indicated they wrapped everything up, but they sustained some kind of injury along the way (debility, missing HP, lost resource)? And then only a 6- triggered the past catching up to them? [I just discovered the REPLY functionality]

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Yeah, some smaller impact on a 7–9 would likely make the move more sustainable in a game with more frequent “I'm Back” triggers; then the 6- would add less frequent and more interesting spice instead of the 9- frequently setting the stage for the session's action.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie Right. Just the frequency of 7-9s sounds like it would derail situations far too often otherwise.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Yeah. I'm having that problem with our Bard's use of Arcane Art right now — playing music to give others a benefit is something they do really often, so the 7–9 result is getting really common and I've been finding my input for “ but you draw unwanted attention or your magic reverberates to other targets affecting them as well, GM’s choice” have been more disruptive than I'd like.

In that case though, I've come to the conclusion that I just need to de-escalate my input for those, make them less dramatic. I figure now it's intended to be, more often, “you're playing loud music, so obviously the noise is heard by a monster that comes to investigate”, rather than “your attempt to heal your friend restores the orcs you just defeated to zombie unlife!!1!”, which is how I've been reacting to it so far…

… Huh, now that I write that, maybe a 7–9 on “I'm Back” would worry me less if I wasn't thinking so dramatically about its results too. 😅 I think that's my biggest weakness running Dungeon World: I tend to go big when I make GM moves, instead of remembering that they cover everything I contribute, which in any other game I run normally includes more calm (but still interesting and advancing the game) things.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie Huh, I think I have the opposite problem, where I'm inclined to use my prep more than is proper to handle "big" events and reduce 7-9s to smaller effects. However, I've GM'd a whopping two sessions so I'm still a newbie.

I've also decided that Dungeon World is one of the easiest games to sell on people open to the idea of D&D but that haven't played a session beyond character creation.

3

Don't like long setup and learning curves? Don't want to spend money? Want to be able to participate in something tomorrow instead of in 2 weeks when I have a campaign ready?

SevenSidedDie

19:50

@BlackVegetable I think part of my trouble is that I learned to run PtbA games by being a player in an Apocalypse World game run by Adam Koebel, and AW and his MCing could both be quite (delightfully) dramatic… but of course it was the dramatic MC moves that made the most impact on my player-experience, and I likely barely noticed the more subtle ones, so that skews my reflexes for how dramatic to make every move.

BlackVegetable

Interesting. However, I don't know what PtbA or MC mean.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Yes! Dungeon World is a great starter game. Quick, and I find that people new to RPGs get the hang of it faster than those who are experienced, even, because people new to RPGs instinctively just describe what they're doing instead of trying to "push button" the moves.

@BlackVegetable Oh sorry. Powered by the Apocalypse is the (awkward) name of the underlying game engine that DW and other similar games get from their parent, Apocalypse World. MC is just the AW name for the GM.

BlackVegetable

Like "Master of Ceremonies"? Also, is there a keyboard shortcut for "reply"?

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable “Master of Ceremonies”, yeah. It nicely emphasises that they are there to coordinate and facilitate the game, rather than to rule it.

@BlackVegetable I don't think there is; clicking is the only way I know of.

BlackVegetable

Irritating. You must be mighty fast at switching between keyboard and mouse then.

What, other than a ping, is the advantage to the reply functionality?

SevenSidedDie

19:54

@BlackVegetable I never thought about it, but that is a bit of a UI misfeature. Yeah, I'm much faster on a laptop because the trackpad is right there, so I can basically “touch type” both keyboard and mouse. I'm much slower when I'm on the desktop now that you mention it. :)

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie Aha. I do currently own a laptop but for dungeon world development etc. I'm usually on my desktop. As I am currently job hunting, I fall into a trap of creating magical items for DW between tasks quite a bit. I have no idea if I'll ever use most of them but it is kinda fun and fills my addiction to game mechanics so I won't insert them into DW while I GM/MC it.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable It can disambiguate which message is being replied to, which is useful when you start getting conversation threads interleaved (like this, even between just two people). It also creates a reference link (the little arrow) that others can click on to follow the conversation chain back. That latter is really useful when replying to a message way back in the log.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie Then hopefully you are given unicorn points if you can answer two disparate threads with an identical response and tie them together into a single thread once more.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Oh cool. Are you posting them anywhere? Of all things in DW, coming up with magic items is probably the thing I find most difficult. I'm too much a product of my early D&D years when I enjoyed browsing all the existing magic items, rather than dreaming up new ones.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie I could shove them into a github page or something. My problem is some of them are more on the mundane side of things where they give minor mechanical bonuses, but a few are more interesting and have custom moves. I wasn't sure anyone else would find them valuable.

SevenSidedDie

19:59

Maybe I should sit down with my Encyclopedia Magica set and convert some to DW just for practice and to bridge my experience from then to now. :)

@BlackVegetable If you're not Google-averse, a Google doc that's publicly viewable is a good place for that kind of thing too. (GDocs get used a lot in the DW community, just for accessible ease of use I imagine.)

BlackVegetable

Oh cool. Yeah, I could do that. they're sitting in my Google Drive even now.

I wonder if I can allow public comments without edit permissions...

SevenSidedDie

And there's also the DW reddit, where people will (among other topics) post their latest magic item, move, class, or whatever creation.

@BlackVegetable Good question. I haven't delved into GDocs features enough to know. Let me know if you figure it out.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie I try to stay away from Reddit for personal reasons, but would be fine if someone else reposted any of my stuff there or a link.

@SevenSidedDie I will research this right now.

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable I understand. There are lots of reasons that I usually stay away from reddit. I've found the DW subreddit to very coincidentally work OK for me: it's neither so active that I get sucked in like some reddits once did, and the discourse is cooperative and civil enough that it doesn't angrify me like many other parts of reddit. And it doesn't crosslink to other parts much if at all, so there's not much leakage into it and I'm not tempted to look at other parts of reddit.

For my particular reasons I usually avoid reddit, it hits a sweet spot of workability.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie This should be public now, and searchable eventually: docs.google.com/document/d/… This is just one of them, and it is the shortest.

It should be possible for commenting by anyone also.

SevenSidedDie

20:06

@BlackVegetable Cool. Yeah, I see “suggesting”, but editing is disabled.

BlackVegetable

That's good then.

SevenSidedDie

I think my favourite magic item is one I tweaked from someone's submission on reddit:

> The Blinking Coin
> When you flip this coin while looking at a location, roll+Wis. On a 10+ you teleport to that place. On a 7-9 choose one:
> • You leave something behind
> • You reappear not quite at that place
> • The coin doesn't reappear

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie Hah, that's amazing. Is that supposed to impact a group or an individual?

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable Just the individual “you”.

BlackVegetable

Ah, English is dumb with second-person plural so it is hard to know.

SevenSidedDie

20:13

Yeah.

SevenSidedDie

20:35

@BlackVegetable Another item is one our Mage just Enchanted. We don't fully know what it does yet, because the enchantment she gave it isn't very useful — a small leather sphere that stores a psychic imprint of the last moments of a creature whose body it's left beside for a few moments. There's no built-in way to view or retrieve or do anything with the stored imprints though. I expect she'll Enchant again to add more abilities, or use a spell or a Ritual on the imprinted psychic energy or info…

> The Hatesphere
> This heavy leather ball is small enough to fully close a human fist around. A shallow set of wrinkles on one side of its otherwise smooth surface looks vaguely like a hate-filled face staring at you, which you can’t unsee once you notice it.
>
> When you rest the Hatesphere near a creature’s mortal remains for a few moments, it stores a psychic imprint of the final moments and death of the creature. When it does it becomes immovably heavy for a time.

It has some unknown side effects too (due to rolling poorly on the Enchant), but I'm not sure what those are and I plan to Play to Find Out what they are.

(Its name and appearance are almost unrelated: they're an accident of other spells going awry. It was originally the Princess's boots, plus two botched attempts to magically repair them using some leather from a bag, after a Slime partially digested them.)

BlackVegetable

Wow, that's amazing.

@SevenSidedDie Is Enchantment a Wizard move?

SevenSidedDie

20:52

@BlackVegetable It's a Mage move. I normally run DW only with the official classes, but this time we're playing a JRPG-inspired campaign, so to establish the themes I customised the available classes a lot. The Mage is a flexible caster, part of a set of three classes meant to be replacements for the Wizard, Cleric, and Paladin. The Mage is given away a as a free sample on that page.

@BlackVegetable The move is

> Enchanter
When you have time and safety with an item in a place of power, you may weave a spell to imbue it with magical power. Describe what kind of magic you want to imbue the item with, then roll +INT. On a 10+, choose two. On a 7-9, choose one.
• The enchantment is permanent.
• The enchantment has no unknown side effects.
• The enchantment does not have a weird limitation.
On a miss, the item you made is cursed. The GM will let you know the nature of the curse, but only after it is too late.

I'm not sure whether I prefer the Mage to the Wizard yet or not, but it is definitely more JRPG-like so far than a wizard with a set spell list, so that's a success!

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie That link states that each of those three classes share a flaw. What flaw are they referring to?

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable The author's view that there's a flaw in the original Wizard, Cleric, Paladin. Just that those three classes are so closely modelled on D&D's strange definition of those names, rather than on the more general understanding that people will have coming to DW without a D&D background.

I like the D&D flavour of those three classes, but I also appreciate that being able to get away from the D&D baggage they carry is good to have as an option. Clerics being more priestly than holy-fighters in particular makes sense to me (though in our JRPG campaign, we have no western-style holy classes at all, because it's off theme).

nitsua60

@eimyr hiya

@SevenSidedDie I loooooove Strolen. I have no idea how I happened upon them a decade ago, but it's been a gold mine.

BlackVegetable

@SevenSidedDie Whoa, that Mage looks pretty cool. I'd have to take a deep look at the existing Wizard before deciding I liked one strictly more than the other though.

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 I admit I've never directly used anything from Strolen's, but I can definitely tell that bits of things I've read there have influenced stuff in my games over time.

nitsua60

21:04

@SevenSidedDie If I'm stuck for an idea in world- or scenario- or character-building sometimes I'll go over there and play roulette =)

SevenSidedDie

@BlackVegetable For that D&D feel, the Wizard is still pretty great. One of the underused things the Wizard allows is the GM to create new Wizard spells as treasure. I really like that.

But if you've got players who aren't already invested in that D&D feel, the Mage is very intriguing as an alternative.

Powerdork

21:45

@SevenSidedDie What are you doing for white mages?

SevenSidedDie

21:55

@Powerdork The Mage can choose a Focus that includes healing magic, so to cover the variety of colour-mages I just put down three copies of the playbook so there was the option. (Nobody this game picked a healing Mage though!)

They have healing covered well enough though, I think. We have the Bard (who can heal with Arcane Art) and the Princess (whose Gentle Touch is basically Lay on Hands). And our art-mage can in theory do healing spells because that's not an Opposed Element to their Focus, but it comes with a -1 on the spellcasting move. And the Golem can't heal anyway, only be repaired, but our Mage's Focus including sculpting matter can (probably? we haven't seen it yet) handle repairs.

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