TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:19

@nitsua60 I'd say if the Outdoors.SE folks are willing to handle it, let them handle it

nitsua60

02:09

can anyone think of a 5e spell or magic item that causes one to become lost?

@SevenSidedDie @mxyzplk if that was you who just deleted my post, can you pop in here?

I got back to the computer and, with edits Robert had made, had started to edit my post. Then it was deleted out from under me. Do you know if there's a way for you to undelete it such that I can continue editing, without my having to reload the page? Or otherwise kill the draft?

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 it says "deleted by mxyzplk♦ 1 min ago", i'm guessing since you mentioned being unable to delete it yourself

nitsua60

(And, of course, this is all my own fault--making edits without saving frequently, on a post I'd flagged to request deletion of.)

doppelgreener

save the draft, start working on it elsewhere ;)

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Yeah, when I was on mobile I flagged it for deletion, since it seems the Android app can't handle that.

@doppelgreener Can't--post went dim and I have the red "post has been deleted, please refresh" banner =\

doppelgreener

oh! one sec then.

i'll help you retrieve the text

are you on the dedicated edit page, or on the question page?

nitsua60

02:22

@doppelgreener edit page--I was mid-typing.

doppelgreener

gotcha, one sec

head to that page and open your browser's dev tools with F12. if there's a CONSOLE tab in the thing that pops up, make sure it's the active one.

nitsua60

I've screenshotted the dimly-visible preview version from under the red banner, so it's not huge if undeletion doesn't get the draft-version back. I just don't want to refresh the tab, since doing so prompts me to discard changes when leaving.

doppelgreener

type in $('textarea'), or paste that in, and hit enter, and tell me if you get a result. Firefox will make you do a thing (typing 'allow pasting') before you're allowed to paste code in.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener result is >[textarea#wmd-input.wmd-input]

(Dear NSA: I am not requesting WMD instructions.)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 perfect. enter this then: $('textarea').text(). copy that stuff it gives you.

nitsua60

02:26

(Well, maybe I am. But not that kind of WMD. But at least I'm getting the instructions over the internet from a stranger in another country. I think.)

mxyzplk

@nitsua60 yeah i deleted it on your request - you want it back?

nitsua60

@mxyzplk Maybe? Sit tight a sec, if you don't mind....

@doppelgreener I got "" back.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 $('textarea').val() <-- what about this?

nitsua60

ditto--empty string.

doppelgreener

fudge

it must've emptied it out during deletion ;_;

nitsua60

02:28

@doppelgreener No worries. Thanks for trying.

@mxyzplk would you mind undeleting it? Perhaps the saved draft will still exist, somehow?

mxyzplk

yeah, uh, link me again

nitsua60

@mxyzplk rpg.stackexchange.com/a/92085/23970, if you please.

(I would do it myself, but I'm naively hoping that the fewer page loads I request from the server (like, zero), the better chance I somehow get the draft back.)

mxyzplk

@nitsua60 done

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 pretty sure you're not allowed to undelete a mod-deleted answer anyway

nitsua60

@mxyzplk ty

@doppelgreener that... would seem reasonable =)

Well, that didn't work. But I've got the snapshot to work from, so not all was lost. And, seriously, we're talking about three paragraphs' waxing about a hypothetical fictional character getting lost in an imaginary landscape, in a game run by and played in by people I've never met. Having to rewrite it isn't exactly the fodder for Greek tragedy, is all I'm saying.

BESW

02:49

@nitsua60 From a foreign immigrant, no less.

nitsua60

@BESW Hadrian's Wall didn't keep you out?

[backs away from the ledge of US politics]

BESW

@nitsua60 Hadrian's Wall is in the wrong place to keep out exiled criminals.

nitsua60

@BESW I assumed greener ~~attacked~~ immigrated from the north. 'Cause high ground.

Speaking of exiled criminals, did I hear something in the news the other day about an island where Australia ships its criminals?

(Seriously, that's not a joke. Unless, of course, it was a joke that I heard.)

BESW

Cockatoo Island?

They've got a lot of islands in the penal colonies list.

Adeptus

@nitsua60 Not criminals, but refugee claimants

Our government has various offshore detention centres that "process" refugee claimants that arrive by boat. In this instance, "process" seems to mean "detain indefinitely in horrible conditions".

(assuming you're talking current affairs, not history)

nitsua60

03:06

@Adeptus Funny, we often use that definition of "process" in US proceedings, too. (And by proceedings, I mean things that don't go anywhere.)

BESW

Sometimes refugees coming to Guam are re-routed to the Northern Marianas because its legal association with the USA is indirect enough that they can't request asylum from the US up there, but they could on Guam. It's... not pleasant.

nitsua60

03:17

Oh, dear, 17 edits to go. "Should I stay or should I go?"

RollingFeles

Rogue One is awesome.

nitsua60

@RollingFeles Glad to hear it. Hope you got to share the experience with some loved ones. Please say no more.

(I'm taking my son tomorrow. Or next week. It's up in the air.)

Adeptus

@nitsua60 No, it's in space. Duh. :P

nitsua60

=)

RollingFeles

@nitsua60 don't be afraid. I'm not going to spoil enjoyment to anyone. :)

nitsua60

03:30

@RollingFeles thanks!

@RollingFeles just tell me one thing: who played Dumbledore in this one?

4

trogdor

lol

Miniman

@RollingFeles Wow, spoilers.

nitsua60

@Miniman @Miniman is there a good way in SEDE to search post bodies for particular strings? And can we search on newline/<br>? I'm wondering if there's a good way to identify candidates for converting **heading typeset in bold** to ##heading using actual headers.

Miniman

03:52

Like this?

@nitsua60

nitsua60

@Miniman What does % represent in a SQL string?

Miniman

It's the wildcard for 0 or more characters.

Char (10) is a newline.

Sort of.

nitsua60

Oh, do post searches automatically go line-by-line?

Miniman

Huh?

nitsua60

(I dunno. Nvm.)

Certainly the results of that all have single-lines of all-bold. But I'd be shocked if there's only 4 posts that fit that description....

doppelgreener

03:57

@nitsua60 it's not searching line by line. it's a SQL query that specifically says "is there something matching this pattern?" where the pattern is: stuff - bold - stuff - bold - newline - more stuff

nitsua60

Actually, the 3rd result isn't expected.

(No bold-line there.)

doppelgreener

I've edited the fourth one.

@nitsua60 Third result has bold-lines in its code block. They just don't count, 'cause they're code.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Dammit, I'm trying to grind Copy Editor efficiently! It doesn't help if you snipe me!

=)

@doppelgreener Aah, yes. I see it now.

There can't be only three fake header candidates in all of our 80k posts!

Adeptus

looks like the search is returning questions only? I'd expect a lot more results in answers

Miniman

There's one that uses <br> rather than a CR or LF.

@Adeptus There's no reason it should be doing that...

nitsua60

04:02

New "blue in the face" theory to test: 10 comments in 30 min or less. A lot simpler than some of our byzantine experimentation, @doppelgreener, yet still would have been triggered by us....

VtC system needed

LegendaryDude

VtC, seems to be asking for plot points/help fleshing out the story

Miniman

Agh. The one using <br> is also not using the asterisks to bold text, they're just surrounding it like a parody of good formatting.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 I only hit ~15 across an hour

LegendaryDude

@doppelgreener It seemed to me he is asking more along the lines of, "why do my NPCs get along when they naturally shouldn't?"

which isn't really answerable

I guess even if it is something we can answer it needs to be clarified so we know exactly what the problem is?

nitsua60

@doppelgreener At the point where we were testing on two posts at once, you must have been close to posting 10 in 15 or 20 minutes, right?

doppelgreener

04:12

@LegendaryDude Why not? We could get answers of "here, do it like this, worked for me" and also of "you can't ever" and it could also get no answers at all (which is also fine, and not something we care about for closing a question).

@LegendaryDude there's a bar with denizens who would be ordinarily hostile to each other and they're reaching out to WoD experts to guide them on resolving the dilemma. The problem is clear.

@nitsua60 Doubt it, I was pretty slow in my responses. Might have done 10 in half an hour.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener eh, just a thought.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Couldn't resist, but there's more editing to be done to that one. (there's an "edit:" line.)

LegendaryDude

@doppelgreener :shrug: Guess I see it differently. It seems exactly like a brainstorming, idea generation, too broad and/or opinion-based question to me.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Actually, I'm going to be socked away for a while working on the one that has a table in code, up-converting it to MathJaX. (So much for efficiency....)

@LegendaryDude This is why I love the 5-votes-to-close mechanism. I don't need to nail the close-vote boundary-line perfectly: my close-vote puts it in a place where others will look at is and also judge, themselves.

doppelgreener

@LegendaryDude Notably idea generation is not a close reason itself. We close idea generation questions as too broad, unclear, or opinion based. This isn't those. There's a specific problem. "I can't imagine a satisfying solution" does not mean "this is fundamentally provably impossible for anyone to answer." There can actually be very effective and very ineffective solutions, so it's not brainstorming where every answer is equally valid.

LegendaryDude

04:18

@nitsua60 Yep. It's also why I don't like Mjolnir! I hope I never get a gold tag badge. I don't want that kind of burden!

doppelgreener

We have precedent for accepting questions like this which require a setting detail to be resolved and someone is reaching out for guidance in doing it. They are a category which includes brainstorming questions but are not inherently equal to them.

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude Yeah, dupehammering is a little intimidating. When I'm sure I'll do it, and I never hesitate if I agree with one in the review queue. But if I'm not really sure... it makes me sure I don't want to be a diamond mod =)

doppelgreener

Brainstorming asks "guys tell me cool ideas for how I can do a thing" without a problem to solve, so it's just a poll. This one has a concrete problem to solve.

As in, it's literally a problem, and we are being looked to for a solution to it.

LegendaryDude

@doppelgreener The problem with the question, as I see it, is there could literally be hundreds of reasons for those characters to be working together, and there is no objective way to say "yep, this reason is better than that one."

doppelgreener

@LegendaryDude then at least we agree it's very answerable, and I'd suggest the most useful answer will be the one that outlines the general categories of options, and effectively teaches the person how to construct their own specific reasons — rather than the answer that just lists a bunch of reasons. History tends to show that happening for answers to questions of this nature.

nitsua60

04:24

If you voted to close the likely-5e newbie question, can I request you consider the second comment I just made? Thanks.

Miniman

I was just about to say, I don't think it's a dupe (of that one, anyway).

His question is much more specific than "i dont get it help plz".

nitsua60

Fair enough. But if we're not going to create a complete walkthrough, I don't see how we're going to help Tarin. (On mainsite, at least.) (Also, I'm neutral on whether creating the walkthrough would be good or not.)

LegendaryDude

@doppelgreener I can't help but feel the question could use some refinement to bring it to that level. When I read it, it comes off like "why do my characters not kill each other?" not "what techniques can I use to make this situation believable?"

doppelgreener

@LegendaryDude it seems like both to me, though is there some way we could encourage them to get it to a more workable question?

Miniman

@nitsua60 The way to help isn't to write a detailed walkthrough, it's to say "read the section of the PHB that is a detailed walkthrough", perhaps pointing out the specific sections relevant to their confusion.

LegendaryDude

04:33

@doppelgreener Looks like it's been clarified a bit, he has included a request for canonical precedence which I think steers it enough in the right direction that I'll retract my VtC.

doppelgreener

@LegendaryDude that definitely sounds like a helpful addition

nitsua60

@Miniman Ugh. I just don't think the PHB is well-laid out for a new person.

doppelgreener

I'll be amused if it's "yes, and it lasted about a week before they all killed each other"

nitsua60

We may just have to disagree on this one.

Miniman

Well, it's not. But I'd argue that the first section (the step-by-step character creation walkthrough) is.

LegendaryDude

04:39

@nitsua60 It isn't! The index is terrible.

But that first step-by-step section is pretty helpful. And simply by reading that section, you should know how to get your stats whether your DM is using point buy or 4d6 drop the lowest.

nitsua60

You're both right that Ch1 is more helpful than I might be giving it credit for. What I think it's missing--and there might be no way in static text to capture this--is some guidance on how to make each choice. I.e. if step 1 is to choose a race, what parts of that are going to be important for what?

For example, I choose a race: dwarf. 'Cause I like Gimli.

Then I choose a class: wizard. Because I can punch people, but I can't levitate them. (IRL)

Miniman

It kinda had that too - the table matching races with classes is great!

nitsua60

And I don't realize that I've made two choices that don't really work well together.

LegendaryDude

@Miniman That exists? Is that the table at the beginning of the Classes chapter?

nitsua60

Until I start reading a bit because I'm looking for help, and the internet's all "if you're playing a wizard, you must be a high elf."

And I'm new, so I don't realize that it's totally not true.

So I start worrying about all the other things I didn't know, not knowing that none of it's very important, because it's 5e.

(But I don't even know it's 5e, 'cause it doesn't say so on the fracking cover!!!)

Miniman

04:45

I don't have a PHB in front of me, so I can't say with certainty where it is, but it definitely exists.

LegendaryDude

@nitsua60 Yeah, 5e is a lot more forgiving on that front but people still act like your racial modifiers are huge. With a cap of 20, it's never a problem, really.

@nitsua60 You know, that's something I noticed when I was on Amazon the other day. Every edition since 3.5 just has "Player's Handbook," "Monster Manual," "Dungeon Master's Guide." And none of them make reference to the edition.

nitsua60

@Miniman I think you're talking about the on on p.12: it has a section for each ability, with "important for [classes]" and then lists all the races that get a benefit to that ability.

Miniman

Yep.

nitsua60

@LegendaryDude It's not on the title page, not on the copyright page, not in the preface or introduction....

LegendaryDude

At least with 2e you have "Advanced" in the title so you know what you're looking at.

I mean, if you know what the heck Advanced D&D is.

nitsua60

04:48

@LegendaryDude Yeah. It's 1e.

=)

LegendaryDude

I can see now how this could all be very confusing for someone completely new.

nitsua60

I grew up with a box of D&D. Then some more boxes of D&D, but they had adjectives like "Basic" and "Immortal", that didn't really do much to signify their order, but at least the XP-level tables made it pretty clear what order they went in. Then there was AD&D. Good so far. AD&D, 2e. Check.

Then I went away for 20 years.

And I looked on a shelf at a store and saw "D&D" on the spine.

I said, "I like D&D"

I opened the book.

"What the $HF&#) is this?" I said.

VtR: if it's really just about the scores, that's an easy Q.

LegendaryDude

Baldur's Gate was my introduction to D&D, I didn't get to play it with people at a table until many years later. My first P&P was VtM Revised.

BESW

05:05

Treeshrews aren't true shrews, but are actually closely related to primates. (Photos: Clyde Nishimura) https://t.co/7tG1FXx207

Tweeted by Strange_Animals on December 21, 2016 at 1:45 PM

There's a Fate World project (currently on hold) called "Uncanny Nanny."

How '#StarWars: The Roleplaying Game' brought the sci-fi franchise back from the dead in 1987… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811675385456971780

Tweeted by RollingStone on December 21, 2016 at 8:51 PM

Adeptus

05:21

@BESW Weren't there SW computer games coming out about then, too? Or were they more into the 90s?

BESW

[shrug]

Adeptus

List of Star Wars video games

This is a list of Star Wars video games. Though there have been many hobbyist-made and freeware games based on the Star Wars movie series and brand, this page lists only the games that have been developed and/or published by LucasArts, or officially licensed by Lucasfilm. This is a list of videogames in the Star Wars franchise. Beginning with the 1999 release of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace, Lucasfilm has divided its titles by era with symbols designating such. This list does not include novels which can be found in the list of Star Wars books or comic books, which can be found in...

There was a bit of a gap between 85 & 87, but given the time it takes to produce a game, I think it's fair to say there was not a huge time where no SW game was being worked on.

BESW

06:41

It's time for my semi-annual wondering what RPG inspired by The Prisoner (the 1976 series) should be like (yes, there's a 1989 GURPS supplement, but it's more like a setting guide than a system manual).

BESW

07:03

@CTWind [wave]

Abraham Ray

New feat-Russian dance

effect-you can attack while prone! Normal-you can't attack while prone. What do you think?

CTWind

07:22

Hi!

Abraham Ray

Prequisites for Russian dance are dex 13+ or flurrie of attacks

Hi @CTWind

Abraham Ray

07:40

In dnd 5e this feat removes the disadvantage part of prone attacks

BESW

08:00

@AbrahamRay I don't think it does.

Your feat allows attacks, which are already allowed. It says nothing about disadvantage on attacks.

That feat does nothing except confuse me with the "Russian dance" reference.

Abraham Ray

Sorry, that part should have been under special, again I apologize for the mistake.

Miniman

"Under special"? Also, "flurrie of attacks"?

Abraham Ray

Think the dance they do where they squat or alternate hands and feet on the ground and you'll have the idea.

@Miniman this was meant originally as a monk feat.

BESW

You mean the Ukrainian Hopak dance? It's called "Cossack dance" by foreigners.

Miniman

I deeply suspect that you have in mind a dance that originated in Ukraine.

Abraham Ray

08:05

Special is for extra feat rules( I think)

Miniman

Are you looking at 3.5e, or 5e here?

Abraham Ray

@BESW I didn't know that.

BESW

It's not hard to track down.

Abraham Ray

5e mostly, though this feat could probably be used in any edition @Miniman

BESW

I don't know of any edition of D&D which prohibits attacking from a prone position.

Abraham Ray

08:09

Yes, however most editions give you a disadvantage on attacks when your prone @BESW

BESW

1 hour ago, by Abraham Ray

effect-you can attack while prone! Normal-you can't attack while prone. What do you think?

Abraham Ray

That's a mistake on my part @BESW

BESW

Then it's unclear what the feat is.

Miniman

Assuming that the effect is to alleviate the disadvantages of attacking while prone, why would anyone want this feat?

BESW

If you want folks to give useful feedback, either describe the effect on gameplay you want the feat to have and ask for help with translating it into mechanics, or present the feat's mechanical effects and ask for help making it clear and concise, or balanced, or whatever you want--and be clear what kind of feedback you're looking for, if you're picky about it.

Giving a feat out piecemeal and being unclear what's added vs what's changed, will just lead to confusion and wasted effort on everybody's part.

2

BESW

09:34

Tonight's Bad Dad is Immortan Joe.

trogdor

nice

makes sense

BESW

09:49

I like your Luna in the Moon.

trogdor

thank you

I liked the idea, and I think it turned out ok

trogdor

10:33

partly, I just had to find a way to wear my first secret hat

BESW

11:59

[has made a new tag]

trogdor

what tag is that?

BESW

inspectres

trogdor

ooh

makes too much sense

BESW

0

Q: Playing InSpectres game with very small groups

How small of a group can effectively play InSpectres and still get into the mode of the game, especially if the participants aren't familiar with the system yet? I'm particularly concerned about how confessionals work if there's only two players, but I also suspect that franchise dice as a progr...

Wibbs

13:49

Am I justified in being frustrated that the resident Call of Cthulhu expert is seemingly not going to answer my question because they feel my cultist are acting out of character? My question is not about the cultists behaviour at all, but available magical stuff :/

MC_Hambone

14:25

Real quick question... Anyone know if there is an officially supported Alchemist in D&D3.5? or a class that makes mechanical things that enhance their skills? (i am thinking artificer, but the artificer in 5e isnt really what I wanted)

Miniman

@MC_Hambone Are you asking about 3.5, or 5?

MC_Hambone

I am asking about 3.5

referencing 5th because thats what i am used to... but i am joining a 3.5 game

also, would this be appropriate for the main site? i am just looking for the book names

Miniman

I can't in all honesty, recommend the 3.5 artificer. But it is completely different to the 5e artificer in every way.

@MC_Hambone Probably - it seems specific enough.

MC_Hambone

i know i might razzed for saying this... but i am looking for something that makes things like the World of Warcraft Engineer when i say 'artificer'.... like a guy that makes cool little devices to augment other abilities (like in WoW you can make speed boosters, gliders for slow falling, etc)

not that i specifically want those items... but you know, thats the feel i kinda wanna go for

Miniman

So, utility items rather than combat items?

MC_Hambone

14:31

i suppose so... tho i wouldnt be opposed to combat items. Like i said I am new to 3.5, but i know there is a massive amount of material out there. I am not even sure if something like that exists

Miniman

I have a class in mind, but it's entirely combt-focused.

It's also kinda bad, I don't know how much of an issue that is for you.

MC_Hambone

mehh

i am in for RP... i couldnt care less about min maxing or power gaming

or even optimizing

diego

@MC_Hambone I found this thread about alchemist builds in 3.5

Miniman

Well, you may be interested in the Combat Trapsmith, from Complete Scoundrel.

That's all I got, except for a need to go sleep. Good luck!

MC_Hambone

haha thx!

and that thread, @diego has a comment in it with a spoiler button... this is exactly why i asked you guys for some guidance XD you click that and there is a list of like 20 books with different potions n stuff... as a new guy to 3.5 there is just soooo much to sift through looking for what i had in mind XD

nitsua60

14:50

@Wibbs Not knowing the system, you, or the expert you mention: yes. You get to feel frustrated by whatever you want. On the other hand, you may not be correctly assessing their motives/position. Remember, even if they say that's why, it may not be. Imagine their sister got in a car accident today, then re-evaluate the interaction.

LegendaryDude

@Wibbs Is CoC as deterministic as my friends say it is? Every time I show any interest I get pushback along the lines of, "there's no point, you go insane and then the world ends. The End."

doppelgreener

17:03

@BESW woo! \o/

@trogdor I like it a lot too!

@Wibbs I think what might be going on in that question+answer pair is a variety of "help, doctor, it hurts when i raise my arm!" / "well, stop doing it." In this case "Help, I want to use established materials to reach this outcome but I'm not sure how!" "The established materials don't reach that outcome, but here's a comparable outcome they would reach."

@Wibbs A constructive way to respond might be to try to understand the advice Sardathrion is giving you (even if it isn't the advice you want), acknowledge and be appreciative for it (it might be helpful and educational, even if it isn't helpful for achieving this scenario you want), and stress that you want to push for a way to make the described scenario work anyway even if it might be weird within the established materials, and ask them if they can provide advice for that.

You may want to mention it'll give you a story opportunity you don't get otherwise, and you would really like to tell the story under this circumstance rather than the "insane cult doesn't care if they're caught" circumstance.

LegendaryDude

17:52

What are the requirements for a user's profile preview to show up when mousing over their thumbnail? Anyone?

doppelgreener

18:04

@LegendaryDude An expanded usercard is unlocked at 1000 reputation. You need at least 28 characters in your profile description for it to work. If you want to display something other than your profile description, put a summary notation inside your profile description: , where [your text here] is replaced by at least 28 characters (you replace the square brackets too). I use this myself.

LegendaryDude

@doppelgreener Ah, okay. That explains why I couldn't figure it out; there were some users I checked who had > 1000 rep but no profile description, and others who had < 1000 but did have a profile description. Thanks!

I guess I just never read the privileges section for 1000 rep.

doppelgreener

You're welcome. :)

SevenSidedDie

18:52

@doppelgreener Neat trick. I didn't know about that; where did you learn about that feature?

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie Says so further down on the expanded usercard explanation.

Anaphory

I got another secret hat. This time on travel.se, where I asked a question and nothing extraordinary happened.

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener Neat. I wonder if I just overlooked/forgot/never read that, or if it's a new feature. (… Probably the former.)

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie It's the former, haha. It's pretty quietly tucked away.

fate-core -- I remember there being a section in the fate rules that suggests that pre-established facts can just become aspects if/when they're going to be used as such. Someone describes the stone walls of the library with the wooden shelves full of books and the wooden door, someone decides they want to invoke the wooden shelves for something but it's not an aspect yet -- they just make it one. Am I remembering correctly? Where is it?

(should I ask mainsite?)

SevenSidedDie

19:11

@doppelgreener Core, page 78, last paragraph looks likely, though maybe only one expression of it. It kinda goes hand-in-hand with Aspects Are Always True.

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie Thanks very much. What's the heading on that one? My books are in freight until January, so I only have fate SRD until then.

oh wait i also have my PDFs!

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener That's under “Creating and Discovering New Aspects in Play” in the Aspects and Fate Points chapter. Just before “Secret or Hidden Aspects”.

@doppelgreener PDFs are so good.

doppelgreener

Thanks. :)

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener No problem! Finding half-remembered things in books is one of those skills I honed pre-Internet. Though it's gotten somewhat rusty these days.

2

doppelgreener

[cries] Bounty descriptions strip out newlines.

6

Q: Does the GM have to pay a fate point to Declare a Story Detail?

I don't see any specific information in Fate Core declaring that this is not the case. Normally, I would assume that the GM just narrates what happens, but what if one of his/her NPCs is trapped in a situation but has an applicable Aspect? Does the GM need to spend a Fate Point to Declare a Story...

fate-core fate-points

Anaphory

19:28

@BESW I have started reading "The Limits of Growth: 30 Years Update". Strategies mentioned in there in Ch. 8 -- Learning, Speaking the Truth, Loving, etc. -- reminded me of Solarpunk approaches.

doppelgreener

0

Q: Leave newlines intact in bounty messages we write

Bounties allow us to provide a message along with bounties we place, should we deem it useful to include one. I use this myself regularly, and sometimes a decent explanation is warranted so that readers understand what's going on. However, bounty messages get their newlines stripped out. This ca...

feature-request design bounty markdown bounty-remarks

trogdor

19:50

@doppelgreener well, thank you as well then :)

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener “Bacon ipsum dolor amet corned beef” +1

BESW

21:01

Whoa whoa whoa. Forget Krampus. Jolakotturinn is a giant cat that eats you if you don't have new clothes for Xmas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_Cat

Tweeted by OhThatNumi on December 22, 2016 at 2:58 AM

SevenSidedDie

21:14

@BESW I love the mythic logic and style of European folklore. I clicked through the related link to read about troll cats. Selling one's soul to the Devil for free cream seems like a bad deal, but it works in context.

BESW

@SevenSidedDie Guam has tribes of mischievous little supernatural people living in the jungle, who kidnap bad children and curse them with things like becoming mute... the most reliable cure is a spanking with a grandmother's belt.

Also:

Magic is traditionally not about breaking the world. It's about butter and oysters and finding herring and keeping the evil eye off the cow.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on November 28, 2016 at 2:38 AM in reply to UrsulaV

SevenSidedDie

@BESW That's devious parental logic at work. “Which of you kids did this?” *silence* “Oh, the jungle people got you and made you mute. Let's go see Grandmother…”

BESW

@SevenSidedDie There's also supernatural guardians who will make you sick if you go to the bathroom in the jungle without asking permission.

SevenSidedDie

@BESW That actually came up a few days ago during a conversation I had with my daughter, who was raised on modern concepts of fantasy spells and magic, about how the stereotypes about Romani in some of the old books she has are really unjust. (Good teachable moment.)

BESW

@SevenSidedDie Very nice.

...I'm trying to think how many of my old books had Romani in them...

His Dark Materials hardly counts as old, though it makes little to no progress on the "Romani stereotype" front.

trogdor

21:24

I have read very little with Romani (or in many cases they are called gypsies)

SevenSidedDie

@BESW This one is a collection of Rupert Bear stories/comics I had as a kid that my mom has passed down to her. It was especially interesting because the stereotypes it uses are “positive”, so we talked about how even nice stereotypes can be harmful.

trogdor

I have seen some shows and movies that are not flattering to them

BESW

@SevenSidedDie Oh, excellent opportunity, yes.

Albert Campion was friends with the Romani. They called him Orlando, and had a similar positive stereotype thing going on.

trogdor

including one where there was a group of "gypsies" who had a gargoyle that they basically just used to kill people because they were irredeemably evil and had magic curses

SevenSidedDie

@trogdor This one is a “wise old Gypsy fortune-teller woman and her acrobat grandson” portrayal of Romani.

BESW

21:26

@SevenSidedDie Wow, that makes Campion's version of Romani look progressive.

trogdor

@SevenSidedDie yeah, its strange, I wonder exactly how stereotypes such as this one started (individually, not all together)

SevenSidedDie

@BESW The trope simplification that happens for short-form stories at work, no doubt.

BESW

I suspect Allingham may also have actually met some Romani at some point.

SevenSidedDie

@trogdor I suspect in this case, without doing any digging, that the fact of Romani's lifestyle — insularity plus travelling, in a time and place when nobody really travelled — made it easy for stories about “those outsiders” to flourish and spread throughout Europe. And society (English in particular, but also in general) was not shy about appropriating “exoticism” for cultural storytelling then. The exact genesis and spread would be interesting to investigate.

trogdor

yeah, that is what I mean

and yeah, I figured most of those things had something to do with it as well

BESW

21:31

The term "Gypsy" is an exonym referencing the belief that they are descended from Egyptians.

SevenSidedDie

@BESW That's right, I'd forgotten about that.

BESW

Which, given Europe's relationship to Egypt, goes a long way to interpreting anything unknown or misunderstood about the Romani as ancient heathen magic.

@SevenSidedDie Phillip Pullman was.... not subtle.... about it; his alternate universe called them Gyptians.

trogdor

@BESW huh, I did not know this at all

SevenSidedDie

@BESW Emphasising the belief, or highlighting the ridiculousness of it, I wonder.

BESW

@SevenSidedDie Probably trying for the latter, but hitting more of the former.

At least in the general exotification sense.

SevenSidedDie

21:35

@BESW I don't know much about Pullman himself apart from through the books themselves. I would buy that.

BESW

Pullman's not very good at hitting his intended marks.

SevenSidedDie

So many terms for ethnic groups have dubious origins. In Polish, the word for “German” derives from “those who can't speak”, in contrast with “Slav” which derives from a word meaning “those with words”.

BESW

The Aztec word for their language, Nahuatl, means roughly "clear speech."

The term haole is used in many Pasifika cultures to mean some combination of foreigner/white person.

SevenSidedDie

And ironically, the English word slave derives from the Slavs (often taken as slaves by the Romans), which makes its etymology trace back to “able to speak”. Language is fascinating and full of messed up tensions.

BESW

Its origin meaning is disputed, but popular theories include "(lazy) thief/robber" and "spiritually/culturally ignorant."

The "culturally ignorant" meaning is definitely part of its use on Guam.

LegendaryDude

21:45

Related, I have read that the word "hazard" comes from an Arabic origin meaning "the dice."

Dice were hazardous to have during the Crusades because of their association with gambling.

And, as we know, dice can be hazardous in our hobbies, too. :P

BESW

Also ghoul, mummy, alchemy, and many other important words for RPGing.

trogdor

22:00

@BESW well, people have also used it just to describe white people

BESW

Aye.

trogdor

like, literally said such a word to me or a member of my family

without like, bothering to know what exactly we did or did not know

so it definitely has been misused/mutated, as many words before it

BESW

22:16

Yeah, it's got a lot of contextual meaning.

But it's definitely got cultural connotations, as evidenced by the phrase "not really a haole."

nitsua60

@Miniman what about a query for posts containing code-formatted text? Since we're rarely dealing with code here (except anydice questions), those'd probably be good candidates for some editing.

BESW

@nitsua60 data.stackexchange.com/rpg/query/584330/graveposts

trogdor

@BESW all that is fair enough yeah

Miniman

22:36

Also captures posts that use backticks as quotation marks or apostrophes!

doppelgreener

@BESW Oooh. posts.body is the rendered output. I wonder if there's a pre-render markdown output section...

SevenSidedDie

22:51

@BESW I wonder what that one “unknown” result title is. It just leads to a 404.

Miniman

@doppelgreener It's pre-render; you can search for markdown.

Try displaying the body in the results and see the full pre-render glory.

doppelgreener

@Miniman I did that and got post-render glory. If body contained markdown you should be getting hundreds more answers, because you'd be capturing inline code too.

Maybe revisions are where the pre-render markdown is stored.

BESW

"Pre-Render Glory" would be a good name for an animation company.

2

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener Probably. I don't see anywhere else to store the markdown source, and it's not unusual to store only the original + all its diffs and compute the source on the fly rather than store each version, when you're already storing one final rendered output for speed of serving.

doppelgreener

23:10

@SevenSidedDie I feel like they're almost certainly also storing the most recent version somewhere in the database, just probably isn't in the public data dump since it'd be redundant.

The most recent version of the post is the single most frequent revision we'd access the markdown of, it's got to be somewhere in one piece.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Hmmm, you're right. Weird, I could have sworn I've successfully searched for markdown there before.

@doppelgreener Revisions are stored as complete posts (in the post history table).

nitsua60

@Miniman thanks =)

SevenSidedDie

@Miniman Ah, so it's the diffs that are computed on the fly.

nitsua60

This now means I've slowed my quest for "Copy Editor" to a snail's pace: I'm finding posts that have tables currently encoded as code and MathJaXing them... which takes as long as about ten simpler post-edits =)

Miniman

@SevenSidedDie Actually, looks like I might be wrong again, but it's hard to tell (SEDE's mobile experience is pretty awful).

doppelgreener

23:21

Hm, I might be crossing wires here.

@SevenSidedDie <-- With regards to this post I consider us discussing the production database, which is not the same as the data dump in structure, content, or data.

SevenSidedDie

@Miniman Looking at the CSV for a PostHistory request on PostID 77212, looks like each text is the whole text of that version, yeah.

@doppelgreener Yeah, but I was wrong anyway. Looks like they store the versions and compute the diffs instead of the other way around. :) That's unlikely to change just for the dump.

doppelgreener

I think it's reasonable to say the Stack Exchange Q&A production database could store the original, the most recent version, and the diffs for versions in between. It could also reasonably store the whole of each post, since 30kb per revision is extremely cheap on the scale Stack Exchange is dealing with.

Miniman

23:54

@BESW Do you know anything about SSRS?

nitsua60

(btw @Miniman: sorry to ping you pre-dawn--I hope I didn't wake you!)

Miniman

I don't know about the crazy country you live in, but dawn happens well before 9:20 here :P

trogdor

lol

I was about to say, surely it is not still dawn there

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