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01:00 - 04:0004:00 - 00:00

04:00
@Masakan It's certainly a nice damage boost.
Done
so generally 3d6 damage(I plan to get a crystal of energy assault) and up to 8d4 damage from arcane strike
i say thats gona leave a mark
@Masakan Yep.
thanks for the clarity i was kinda on the fence abotu that since you know for as powerful as they are
wizard spells are still scarce compared to their sorcerous counterparts
yet wizards are more flexible, given a day to rest
@Masakan There are ways for a wizard to end up with more spells per day, anyway.
Sorcerers get the short end of every wizard stick.
04:07
...consumables. Scrolls, staves.
and a banana, to prevent cramping
[I'm going to assume the joke flops, and explain that's a "flexibility" reference.]
My goodness, staves.
@Miniman more than the default wizard, or the default sorcerer?
@JoelHarmon More than the sorcerer, unfortunately.
well the only one i found reliable was the circlet of mages
04:08
@BESW I meant innately, but there's that too.
besides it doesnt matter if you use a wizard or a sorcerer base
gishes fall under the realm of casting the same few spells every day anyway
@Masakan Except for the part where sorcerers get each level of spells 1 level later.
That bit is really, really important.
right theres that issue
@Masakan That's just more support for the wizard - with focused specialization, they get the same number of spells per day as a sorcerer.
right thought i kinda avoiced being focuses
generalist is to broad to be of use
so i will go specialization
but focus is imo too limiting
and before you ask it pretty came down to abjurer or evoker for me
which is why i dont find focused specialization appealing
04:12
@Masakan That's fair - if I was being honest, I hate specializing in the first place. Cutting off access to 2 schools of spells hurts so much.
not for me
frankly my guy wouldnt have the precision and finesse to use necromancy and enchantment anyway
so getting rid of those 2 wasnt an issue at all
@Masakan What do you mean by "not have the precision and finesse"?
uh RP wise
reality i just never saw anythign in either of those school i would ever use on a regular basis
besides
all the lore around Arcane stuff demands exacting precision
leaving enchantment and illusion open gives the bard something to do besides inspiring courage all day
and i dont think its out there to think some require more precision then others
like evocation is very straight forward
point in a direction blow something up
04:15
the fighter one square from an enemy appreciates your precision
oh yeah
damn it
and as for Bards, that depends on the edition; in 5e, they get full 9th level spells
i tried 5e
i hated how eldrich knights only god up to level 4 spells
the only reason i was ok with it
was because they could spam cantrips
they were actually useful
and if you played your cards right
you could have A LOT to work with
@Masakan -- EK is underwhelming in 5e -- the one EK I've seen in 5e went and changed over to 'Lock
29
Q: Weapon attacks compared with damaging cantrips?

AndrásCantrips scale automatically with character level. Weapon attacks only scale with ability score and any extra attack features you might get. How could the damage of weapon attacks keep up?

04:18
yeah i pretty much LOVE the concept of the Magic Knight or Blade mage in any sort of media
so seeing how...Meh they are in 5th edition
just drove me away
and curiously, in 5e you can pick up cantrips as part of some races or a feat, and the attack-y ones are as good as any sorcerer and most wizards can do (if your casting stat keeps up)
I don't have the reference, but the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide has a casty-stabby extension to, I think, the Wizard
@Masakan -- in 5e -- other builds do gishing better than EK does -- EK is quite fighter-first
like who?
Warlock can do it rather well
try a Warlock
04:21
i'l lremember that if i ever try 5th edition again
Pact of the Blade gets you proficiency with any kind of weapon you like, plus interesting always-on options and an odd flavor of casting
@JoelHarmon yep
Bladesinger is the Wizard from SCAG
PotB also gets you that handy-dandy pact weapon xD
I just backed Ki Khanga.
04:34
nice
@Shalvenay that's where the proficiency I mentioned comes from; you're only proficient in a few weapons as a Warlock, but you're always proficient with the pact weapon, whatever shape it takes
@JoelHarmon indeed -- it's handy also because of it's shapechanging and its summonability
 
4 hours later…
08:13
Dear URU: I think I just figured out why you failed so miserably to acquire an audience. You're an MMO with a puzzle that requires standing still for 15 minutes.
Yeah.
A Myst franchise MMO was always a weird idea, but they implemented it as a run-and-jump OTS with puzzles involving kicking objects because you couldn't pick them up, standing in place for 15 minutes, and treasure hunts with literally NO clues where to start looking.
08:57
you've talked about it before, I just don't think I heard that detail before
or most of that stuff really
I wasn't aware of how messed up some of it was, myself.
 
10 hours later…
18:30
hey there @Zachiel
@Masakan There's this problem where people who try to do anime-like characters (think Ichigo from Bleach or Hokuto no Ken, or One Punch Man... you know, that kind of character) are usually interested in showing off, big fights, flashy finishes... for a lot of people, D&D is high-magic but still kinda middle ages European fantasy. Genre-wise, they don't mesh well
@Shalvenay Heya
@Zachiel yeah, we suggested he try Anima: Beyond Fantasy
@Zachiel how're things going?
@Shalvenay I think I've decided the route I want my D&D character to go. I need to submit the feats and skills I'm missing in a little more than 3 hours
@Zachiel well i wont deny that i wanna be a little flashy, but while im an anime nut. im not interesting in showing off. I just wanna be strong and influential to my team
the only thing I'm not completely satisfied with is that I'm not getting to the caster level I'd need to avoid being dispelled by anyone in the game.
18:42
@Zachiel i know dnd is not this one man show and i never try to be. but is it wrong to wanna have a little style in my characters?
@Masakan I think itìs the flashy part that's the biggest problem with the D&D groups I described. Also, there's a lot of Timmy players - the term comes from Magic:tG, it's the player who likes the big creatures, the seemingly powerful cards, the flashy spells over crazy comboes and optimal building - that happen to like that sort of animes, and this might have come to be seen as a telltale sign of such a player.
aren't gish's just naturally flashy anyway?
to some degree?
@Masakan not necessarily
but again i was careful to make sure im not some one man show
or i can just solve problems single handedly
i can do thigns better then others and more often then not people can do things better then me
@Masakan When the other players think that your "style" is "being excessive and noisy in a dark and grit setting, well--- (anyway, yay mountebanks, but mountebanks are different from Kamina from Gurren Lagann XD). And in any case I'm not saying anime characters are bad, just thinking about reasins why some groups might dislike them.
18:47
oh nononono
i try to make sure its approrriate for the campaign
im not gonan take a charge in character
i na game that requires more finesse
19:01
I'm wondering if leap attack and two tactic feats (both with a useless prereq) for a better charging are good choices for my character
I'm missing on the equivalent of Flay Foe to pull this off
 
1 hour later…
20:31
hey there @nitsua60
21:10
@Masakan Are you sure the only way to add style to characters is to change the things they can do while trying to murder other characters?
idk i guess i just wanna make characters i think are interesting
i could make a god wizard
i could make a charging barbarian
i could be very straightforward and shit
but i promice you i would fall asleep before the 4th session
just because any "Atypical" class build is so binary to me
I think you're describing sets of abilities rather than actual characters
oh backstories are very easy to me
i just want the mechanics to reflect
what i think they are do and how they would act
backstory: I really want to do X, but I'm not there yet. Here's how I'm working on it.
yeah i know
no one starts off strong
good thing about gishes imo
21:14
interesting characters tend to be broken, scarred, or incomplete in some way
you always start weak
that's comparatively true in D&D, but not in all systems
it doesnt always have to be some tragic shakesperian backstory
sometimes its simply a desire for knowledge
to branch outside of ones comfort zone
and try things that others wouldnt be willing to
but again i wanna be a writer so coming up with backstories is no issue for me
Backstories are also not characters, not all by themselves.
so...what am i doing wrong?
21:20
My ranger's backstory is that he got kicked out of his community for being too bloodthirsty. His character is that he's a superstitious coward who loves exerting power over others. His goal is to live forever, and he thinks he can achieve that by killing so many things Death will always make its quotas and never need to come for him.
In his world, adventuring is a good way to make a living by killing lots of stuff.
Thus, he's an adventurer.
Mechanically, he's a ranger because that lets him kill stuff from a safe distance. His build is focused on buffing Shot on the Run so he can always be getting out of danger while also killing stuff.
oh thats easy
i'll come back in a bit to explain what i'v ebeen working on but i have no issue with that
You might find it useful to look the character generation parameters of other RPGs, like Masters of Umdaar.
D&D is not designed to mechanise personality.
It leaves interesting characterisation entirely in the hands of the player.
What you're talking about above when you mention "style" and "interesting" doesn't sound like characterisation, it sounds like combat technique combined with an attempt to overcome the system's goblin dice problems.
hey there @JoelHarmon
So @JoelHarmon's suggestion is that if you're having difficulty developing combat techniques which mesh with your group's play goals because combat techniques are how you make a character interesting but your group isn't interested in the sorts of mechanics that engage you, you might have success looking outside mechanics for something to make your character engaging to play.
ok so long story short my character was an orphan taken in by an abusive caretaker in Athkatla. she was made to do very...questionable things just to make ends meet and was struggling to survive one day she found out her caretaker was gonna sell her off and tried to make a run for it after a struggle she accidently stabbed him left him for dead and ran off before anyone found out, she wandered the country side for months until she finally collapsed at the gates of waterkeep
where she was brougth back to health thanks to deciples of sune who took her in
since then she basically warmed up but still has nightmares about her past
and while being a thief she has a robin hood type approach to it
i would talk about it mroe but i think thats enough for now
21:36
@BESW Essentially what I'm going for, yes. I just got a little distracted
My ranger was fun not because he was good at Shot on the Run, but because of how his cowardice, superstition, and hunt-dominated paradigm led him to interact with the other party members.
So, is she an optimist or pessimist? Funny, witty, taciturn? Devoted or flaky? Standoffish or friendly? All the stuff you mention is stuff that happened, not a description of a personality
oh i had the description down here
hold on
Performer, enchantress, Silver tounged thief
personality wise she would be a very outgoing person not afraid to show skin
pretty much refusing to wear anything that doesnt expose her midriff
very easy to get along with and a doubles as a negotiator and investigator
but shes also very rash, impulsive, terrible with money and loves jewels
she's also prone to tantrum and is ever so slightly vain(edited)
which is fitting considering she's a sunite
so yeah fairly optimistic, funny witty flirty
a little flighty but not flacky
and overall very friendly
but will have moments of selfishness
and when i say selfish i mean she will start acting liek a child not getting candy
That's much more of a character. You can slap a dozen different builds together that all fit that reasonably well.
well like i said
character development and personalit yisnt hard for me at all
its getting it together in a way i like
21:42
Jessie is fun because her overconfidence and garrulousness means she takes everything in stride and thinks she's up to the task even when she obviously isn't, but she's so sociable that running off half-cocked never means leaving her friends behind.
And Sweetheart is a total neurotic who desperately wants to be a person who does things just because they're right, but really needs the approval and recognition of others.
In Fate I can actually make characters whose mechanics are their personalities, to whatever extent I want: Jessie's got a lot of cool physical stuff going on like rocket boots, while Sweetheart's more focused on how her personality influences her problem-solving.
i can understand that i've only been hesitant because i have to learn an entire new system
and it took me a good couple of years to learn as much about 3.5 as i have
Mmm. 3.5 (and D&D in general) is on the very heavy end of the system mastery spectrum.
so others are generally easier to learn?
the shortest system I know of has seven rules that are each a sentence or two
there's a collection of them that are under 200 words each (cues @BESW)
sounds symplistic but i took others advice and looked into anima beyond fantasy
21:47
Well, D&D's players are expected to read between 300 and 600 large pages to get started.
so that should be fun if i get into a group
im gonna be honest
if it wasnt for the tome of battle
i wouldnt have given dnd the time of fucking day
the denser end of the spectrum is d&d 3.5. If you stacked up the whole of all published books for that system, it would be somewhere between knee and hip high
Language, please.
Fate's bare bones implementation is 50 pages.
no wonder this game is such a headache sometimes
Its full "we're explaining the philosophy and how to hack it" iteration is smaller than the 3.5 PHB.
is seven bullet points, eight sentences.
is three single-page pamphlets, including GM advice and optional rules.
21:50
Great Ork Gods is 11 pages, including the splash art
so your telling me i started off with one of the hardest tabletops to figure out?
why is this so massive compared to others?
Yes. And many people have.
great ork gods is one of my favorites to date, so is Lasers & Feelings -- lightweight star trek (original series) parody game, prints out on 1 side of an A4 piece of paper, characters are a name and a description and a number.
basically, yes
Two major reasons, the way I look at it:
21:51
(incidentally, I set up scheduling for a GOG game today, and I'm really excited to see how it goes)
I'd say it's so massive due mostly to historical accident
One, games like Fate use a generic action system and let players customise their characters in a free-form style, while D&D needs unique mechanics for each action and uses a "choose from a list" paradigm for character generation.
Two, D&D is trying to be many many different games at once. Most other games pick a goal and drill toward it.
Nox
Nox
Hello, chat. Ummm, probably a dumb question, but how do you /spoiler in an answer?
the very earliest games in this genre (and I'm going off hearsay and conjecture here)
so dnd basically makes it so you can make any kind of campaign you want withen reason
21:54
@Masakan Well, it tries to. But the way it does this is by giving you pre-baked specific options for... everything. Which is a great way to sell splat material, but not a great way to make a game simple or coherent.
Compare Fate, which has a phrase-based attribute system.
the very earliest games in this genre (and I'm going off hearsay and conjecture here) is called Chainmail. That game is very simulationist, to the point of having different effects depending on which part of your arm someone hit with a sword
Nox
Nox
!> Link that opens a spoiler
?
Hidden text?
and the end result is a convoluted mess that honestly is enough to make one pass out
@Nox spoiler quote syntax is >!
>! test
ugh ok no one is answering... can you guys look at this question and give me your opinions?
21:56
doesn't work in chat though
0
Q: Is the +Cha to hit from Slippers of Battledancing worth complicating my build?

MasakanI am working on a build that is as Charisma reliant as possible. Literally needing nothing but Charisma and a little constitution to function. I've been fascinated with the Slippers of Battledancing for a very long time and have tried desperately to integrate it into a build. However the more I ...

@Nox the easiest way is either to try it in an edit window and look at the results below, or try editing any question that has a spoiler (I'm looking at you, puzzling.se)
@Masakan it's only been around for three hours; give it a day or two and you'll probably see an answer from one of our D&D 3.5e system experts
oops- seems I got that backwards. Thanks, Greener
So when I make a character in Fate, I'm asked to write a series of pithy phrases describing what's true about her that I want to be important in the game. I can do that for any setting, any theme, whatever.
21:56
right sorry im just getting a little impatient
cause this one question could make me rethink my WHOLE build
@Masakan Also it's still Sunday for a lot of folks. The site's much quieter on the weekends.
The RPG.SE system moves over the course of days, and not often quicker than that.
@BESW also just for clarity's sake sublime chords spellcasting is separate from bard spellcasting right?
Nox
Nox
@JoelHarmon, thanks, should probably do that. Gotta stop trying to polish the thing before there is a thing :)
I.E no more gains spells known or able to cast pre level 4 spells
21:58
@Masakan I'm the guy who hasn't played D&D 3.5 for five years.
oh right
@Nox oh, btw, there's bugs in the spoiler markdown formatting.
8
A: Is the spoiler markdown broken?

doppelgreenerYes, they're broken. They've been broken in this particular way for a couple of years now. There's no neat workaround. One spoiler paragraph sitting in lonely isolation is always fine, but combining them isn't so easy. What you did to break it (aka what to avoid) Your problem was that you wrote...

I can hold forth on its general attributes but rarely on a given mechanic peccadillo.
All I remember about Sublime Chord is that it wasn't worth the dip for my level 31 bard.
31?
dude im amazed that campaigns make it past level 15
geezus
Mm, we played an epic campaign that started at level 30.
22:00
oh ok
it sure looks like the Chord's spellcasting progresses independently of the Bard's
i thought as much
so thats a big negative for me
the same way that multi-classing into another spell casting class, like Cleric, wouldn't advance your Bard casting, but would increase the number of spells cast per day (though not all Bard spells, of course)
what are you going for? At a glance, it looks like it gives better casting than a Bard
it does but honestly if it just stops all my previous spellcasting cold turkey, that's a MASSIVE downside for me.
by the time you get there at level 11 (presumably), you're already a 6 cantrips plus four each of levels 1, 2, 3
22:04
well it kind of assumes you basically went nothing but bard for at least 9 levels
which isnt always the case
and it gives you a faster progression to much higher levels (9 > 6)
I agree, it's not
Say you took only one level in Bard somehow. The Chord would still start you at casting level 4 spells
basically, if you take your sample build at level 10, you can directly compare the spellcasting you'd get at level 11 and see how it stacks up
i did i get basically next to no level 3 spells
22:21
you trade some level 3 spells for three level 4 spells and a level 5 spell, plus any bonus spells of level 4 or 5 for high cha
what level Bard did you say you're stopping at?
oh, and those 4's and 5's can be either Bard or Sorc/Wiz spells
I suppose I should ask what in particular about those level 3 spells is so appealing?
Charm Monster
Displacement
Cone of Euphoria
Listening Coin
Glibness
find better alternatives to these spells if you please
and why i would only wanna cast these once a day
Nox
Nox
Ok, @doppelgreener, am botching it hard. :)
0
A: How can I satisfy my RP desire of Knighthood?

NoxFor the sake of completeness, there is an RP way to be knighted and receive some mechanical boons for the knighted char. Hiding it under spoiler, since planning char development for taking that route will require a meta-knowledge on a specific adventure, which you shouldn't probably use since i...

consider buying wands/staves
Nox
Nox
Never mind, wrong order.
Of two characters.
TWO
@Nox I led you astray; apologies
Nox
Nox
22:34
Wand of lesser answer spoilering would've been handy.
@Nox i simplified it & added a paragraph break
Nox
Nox
@JoelHarmon, @doppelgreener, thank you.
i would consider wands but holy hell do those things get pricy
@Nox you can always verify formatting of your answer by scrolling down to just below the edit box, where it gives you the preview
Nox
Nox
Yeah, but those are bugged and there was a chance of "maybe it's only the preview which is broken". And I sort of took that chance.
22:38
@Masakan There is something called, I believe, a Continuous wand, which has two casts per day but never runs out overall
@Nox I've never found a bug in the preview. If you do, you should report it to SE
imo those are only really useful for level 1 spells
and they are specific to ebberon
which the dm may not appriciate
22:50
Keeping with the social/trickster/support theme
brd 4: Dominate Person, Freedom of Movement, Hold Monster, Greater Invisibility, Modify Memory, Rainbow Pattern.
brd5: False Vision, Mind Fog, Mislead, Seeming, Song of Dischord, Mass Suggestion
sor/wis 4: Arcane Eye, Detect Scrying, Scrying, Charm Monster, Confusion, Lesser Geas, Bestow Curse, Fear, Polymorph
sor/wiz 5: Break Enchantment, Teleport, Prying Eyes, Feeblemind, Symbol of Sleep, Sending, Nightmare, Permanency
and of course you might want to go with spells that aren't in the PHB
well i wish to respond to that with a respectable "DUH"
imo bards are SUPER underwhelming without splat support
but thanks
without tone of voice (stupid text interfaces) or knowing you better, I'm not sure if my counter was convincing to you or not
oh i know what your trying to do and believe me i appriciate it
but considering there are other thigns like lyric thaumaturge unseen seer
and the like
@Masakan This is a good example of the difference between D&D and many/most other RPG systems; while many RPGs have expansion material, it's usually truly supplemental and neither intended nor necessary as an always-on addition to the (singular) core manual. Supplements are usually completely optional tools for changing the nature of the game, like Call of Cthulhu's expansions for changing the time period or Fate's Worlds of Adventure for tailoring your game to a particular genre.
yeah i really wish i started with an easier game but then that would probably makd 3.5 mega intimidating
22:58
@Masakan I agree there are a multitude of other options, but the current discussion is advancing Bard casting (possibly via prestige classes that advance it) versus taking Sublime Chord levels
That change in expansion philosophy alone (including the idea of the core manual as a single book between of 200 and 400 pages) means that even the beefiest of non-D&D-like RPGs have dramatically less "must-master" material.
@JoelHarmon you're right personally even if its only up to level 6 i rather keep all my spells learned and able to cast over all my levels
then sacrifice some just to cast higher level ones
you are, of course, free to build as you choose within the rules and the grace of the DM
quick question
reading dragonfire inspiration
would you conclude you need to have the inspire courage ability to use it?
or that you don't ?
Benefit: When you use your bardic music to inspire courage, you can choose to imbue your allies with dragonfire. This choice made when first activating the ability, and the choice applies to all allies affected.
Special: Each ally so inspired loses the standard morale bonus on weapon attack rolls and damage rolls. Instead, he deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage with his weapons for every point of morale bonus that your inspire courage ability would normally add to the attack roll. For example, an 8th level bard using this ability would add 2d6 points of fire damage to his allies' attac
The trigger is using the "inspire courage" feature, and the effect explicitly replaces that feature's effect.
Without inspire courage, you can't trigger dragonfire inspiration.
23:04
damn it so i cant go fey bard get meself a bloody tiger and still inspire people with flames of passion
gosh durn it
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23:15
("Ratpunzel," Ursula Vernon.)
hahahaha
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