After they spent an hour and a half (barely) killing the way-above-their-weight messenger of good who just walked up to lead them to safety--having never let him get a word in edgewise--one new player says "we killed him? I walk away Judd-Nelson style with raised fist, and the whole place freeze-frames." And she walked out to get back to her dorm for check-in.
Go for it. What's the worst that happens? You pick up some downvotes or a closed question? Just be sure to clearly explain in non-jargon words what you're asking.
@BESW how about "Does this mean the DM should (or must) choose either one or the other for a given circumstance, or can the DM choose to have one circumstance simultaneously apply advantage to one party and disadvantage to the other?"
But I've been using it to justify narrative management.
eg, at the beginning of last week's session Matt walked up and totally wrong-footed the priest to move on to more interesting scenes instead of spending the whole session arguing with the priest.
If you had to rate Bards at how good they would be in terms of stealth and thievery, and compare them to rogues, what would you give them and why?
Are they Equal? Worse? Better in some ways? what?
@JoelHarmon the way I see it -- I'm not sure if I'd even give the Gnome disadvantage or the Goliath advantage -- my vision involves a very gimpy at best Goliath at the end of the day, though...
(human joints do not appreciate being forced beyond their limits of motion)
@Masakan are you stuck with a Bard and trying to make him perform as well as a thief as possible? Are you trying to decide between the two classes? Are you wondering why the Bard and the Rogue are considered different power-level-wise at least by some?
basically, we need more context, as right now, the answer to your question depends on context we don't have
@Masakan so, first off: what's your answer to Korvin's question? What problem are you having? Tell us a little about what has you wondering about this, and we can probably help.
@Shalvenay I'd rather not--I've just been on my feet and talking through/with the aforementioned rabble's cacophony for three hours.... I kinda just want to enjoy some silence.
@Masakan Experience has shown that it's best to ask about the specific challenge you're facing. Asking a general question often gets generic answers which aren't useful to anyone, and asking a question about the solution you think is best will make it hard for people to suggest other solutions to your problem.
@BESW (you should probably mention the "XY problem" term as a parenthetical in that explanation next time -- it'd provide a nice cue for people to find out more about what the deal is there)
Performer, enchantress, Silver tounged thief personality wise she would be a very outgoing person not afraid to show skin pretty much refusing to wear anything that doesnt expose her midriff very easy to get along with and a doubles as a negotiator and investigator but shes also very rash, impulsive, terrible with money and loves jewels she's also prone to tantrum and is ever so slightly vain(edited) which is fitting considering she's a sunite
and i wanted a build path that reflected this
yes im very anal like that
but yeah i was super divided whether i should dip into classes and how i would do it
@Shalvenay That's not a problem, though. A problem would be "I'm considering the 1-level dip, but that costs me A while gaining me B. I think that a [good|bad] tradeoff in terms of my priorities X, Y, Z, but I don't really know how to evaluate that."
basically for me its "in a narrativist-heavy environment, it is considered inappropriate to leave narrative management by the side of the road. however, I find the tools of narrative management lie in the out-of-character sphere, which makes it difficult for me to maintain immersion when they are employed. how do I bring these tools in character so that I can employ and interact with them without breaking immersion?"
@Masakan -- at the very least, it's a good idea to provide information about the campaign/world the character is going into, and perhaps their partymates as well
(again, that helps all of us avoid an XY problem trap)
well i try to make it so they can fit anywhere but what i can tell you is that i usually make characters to fit most easily in the forgotten realms world
as it stands now there is no set campaign she will be going it
its more of a character building exersize
i will say this much bard has been without a doubt been the single biggest headache for a chassis i have ever had to deal with
@Masakan another way is if the problem is "I have blah-blah-blah for these reasons, but I don't see how to achieve this one last goal--what is the way to get it that least disrupts what came before?"
One thought about the existing question: I don't think that's your real question. It seems to me that you know a Rogue makes a better thief than a bard, but you want to know how much worse the bard is. Because you want to be a good thief without taking any rogue?
and that's not a matter of magic or running into outsized foes, but of social norms -- herdsfolk take an extremely dim view of thief types of any sort, and the Orcs in that campaign are herdsfolk by and large. winding up stuck with every NPC in the area hunting you and your party would make for a bad day, I suspect.
I think the current edit is much worse. Waaaaaay too vague. "Is it worth it?" Worth what? You need to clearly state your objectives and constraints.
The correct answer to the current question is "taking a level of rogue gets you some things and loses you some things, and I have no way of knowing which of those things are important to you."
Performer, enchantress, Silver tounged thief personality wise she would be a very outgoing person not afraid to show skin pretty much refusing to wear anything that doesnt expose her midriff very easy to get along with and a doubles as a negotiator and investigator but shes also very rash, impulsive, terrible with money and loves jewels she's also prone to tantrum and is ever so slightly vain(edited) which is fitting considering she's a sunite
um the entire purpose is to make her as SAD on charisma as possible. Specializing in Enchantment, Illusion and Divination spells, specializes in using a whip and providing support for the party while being the party face and diplomizing them out of trouble
basically a headon confrontation is impossible for her
@JoelHarmon [not knowing the system...] is it also worth considering the other bookend: 20 levels of bard with skill points pumped into sleight-of-hand &c.?
Then that's part of the information in your question too: the bits you've nailed down are important so answers won't be useless because they don't know it.
@Masakan that should be included, too, then, or you're certain to get an answer that says "easy, do <flubgrub> and you'll get everything you want," whereas you'll be thinking "no, <flibgrub> costs me <wichywig>, and I need that for my combat plan."
So I've been working for months on a concept for a Bardic Thief Type Character.
Here is the basic character concept.
Performer, enchantress, Silver tounged thief
personality wise she would be a very outgoing person not afraid to show skin
pretty much refusing to wear anything that doesnt expos...
@Masakan it would also be polite to drop a comment on the existing answer to the effect of: "thanks, that was good information. I've significantly re-worked the question and added some constraints; you may want to edit your answer."
First, for those who aren't familiar with my situation, this stems from the same environment as this previous question and its predecessors -- a largely freeform, mostly realtime online persistent world, in other worlds.
That environment (like others of its type) attracted quite a few narrativis...
@Shalvenay I read that and it just means nothing to me. I'm clearly not as steeped in the jargon as you are. A dullard like me can't tell at all what your actual problem is from reading all of that.
Communication = exchange of ideas using a common vocabulary. I'm telling you that you're not communicating your problem, at least to me, because you're not using a common vocabulary.
@Masakan His game is filled with people who dislike breaking character for any reason, and in some cases believe it's a sign of poor roleplaying ability.
@BESW furthermore, I find that breaking character in order to advance the story is very distasteful and disruptive myownself -- it is a great way to make characters seem "hollow" to me
@Masakan now that I've taken another look at your question, it looks like the title could use some work. Reading the body it looks like your question is basically: "I'm going to use 17 levels this way, how can I best spend 3 levels to achieve the character described in italics?" In which case the title shouldn't be "is a 1-level dip worth it" (because that artificially constrains answers to only consider 1 level, and only rogue), but rather "how can this bard best spend 3 levels?"
@Masakan my situation? a persistent world -- so any number of story threads may be in play, but there is no overarching goal, unlike a campaign structured RP
neither, really. I think he's talking about the game Eve Online, which is a more or less free form game that some people choose to use as a backdrop for RP because it supports player to player chat
Masakan's stuff is the kind of situation clarification I've helped with dozens of times and can practically do in my sleep--it's just asking a lot of questions and pointing at the stuff that's helpful to add.
Your situation needs a lot more personalised attention because it's touching on things I don't have as much experience helping people articulate.
Well this is an interesting question. I disagree with the close vote it has, because it's a question about role-playing even if the medium is a video game. However, it requires setting specific knowledge of a non-RPG product...
You implemented your prisoner of conscience in three card poker instead of the Universidad Diego Portales, even though the Tartan Army probably doesn't need you to. Got it.
@Skye So it's 39 dollars to be a licensed/registered player, but you don't need to be a registered player to play, depending on the GM and how they've set up the game. (I believe.)
@Skye Don't let that deceive you - to be useful without requiring an enormous amount of work on your part, you need to drop somewhere in the vicinity of $100-$200 to get the actual content.
@nitsua60 I'm not looking for the style of fantasy adventure from back when I played AD&D, because those Good Old Times never existed for me (I started with Midgard, the oldest German RPG, then had a big break and picked up with many different things, mostly simulation heavy like Hârnmaster), and I have Torchbearer, Dungeon World and Fate Accelerated to fill similar play style gaps today.
But I do appreciate that 5e is something where I can join for a session without seeing it as a last resort and without explicit “I want to try X”, because it's closer to my default likings.
Wizards.com itself has a massive collection.
Finding exactly what you need can be tedious, but for sheer volume it's hard to beat the wizards.com galleries and archives.
The Art & Map Gallery and the Map-A-Week Archive are both free, and give access to most of the maps published in D&D 3.5 phys...
I'm not sure how that model will hold up in a system with D&D's level of agency, nor if it's still as effective stretched over multiple sessions. Curious to hear how it works.
If you had to rate Bards at how good they would be in terms of stealth and thievery, and compare them to rogues, what would you give them and why?
Are they Equal? Worse? Better in some ways? what?
