TRPG General Chat

BESW

01:18

Re: x-cards in voice-focused Discord: I talked about our ideas with VI, and she said "Why not just use @here?"

Shalvenay

@BESW -- on a lark -- how are graphs and other such figures represented in Braille translations of educational texts?

BESW

In a context where both digital and audio supplements are unavailable? Haptics and text descriptions.

Here, have a brief examination of various options for graphs accessible to the VI.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, tactile renderings was what I was thinking of actually

lots of good points in that site though -- and I really do wonder why people raise such a stink about making things accessible?

the way it strikes me can be summed up in two phrases: "universal access is called universal for a reason" and "accessibility is everyone's a11y"

BESW

It's extra work, which means extra cost--not just in time and effort spent on making each thing accessible, but in training.

And it isn't easy, on a purely mental level, to make the shift in how one considers the world. That brain strain is one reason I like helping the VI, but I recognise that I'm unusual in that regard.

I have to shift everything about my communication choices. I can't rely on expressions and gestures to reinforce my speech, so I have to put more thought into how I'm using my words--I have to say more and be more specific about things which would otherwise be conveyed by visual cues.

And I have to shift how I describe things to focus more on senses that I usually don't consider consciously.

That's just in talking with somebody.

Shalvenay

01:37

yeah, it's not an easy shift to make -- I personally don't mind making it at all either, but it's probably harder for many folks than it is for me because they don't have the foggiest clue about any of it. As someone with a silent disability myself (i.e. developmental, not physical), I'm probably more clued into the general gist of accessibility than 90+% of folks out there, which is slightly sad even

BESW

Yeah, it probably helps that I've had friends and community members with different kinds of impairments from a pretty young age.

Shalvenay

(it's one of several reasons I get frustrated by computer games that feel the need to reinvent the entire UI wheel instead of using an existing, mature GUI toolkit.)

@BESW yeah, I've had a fair bit of exposure myself in that regard

BESW

So making something accessible isn't just about taking a little extra time to do something obvious, it's about our ability to shift our own perception of the world to something outside our own experience.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah. part of me suggests that an illuminating experience for some might be to play at being disabled for a short period of time.

BESW

This is a skill which is seriously devalued in most of the contexts and business cultures where such accessibility awareness would do the most good.

@Shalvenay 14 Days is an RPG about spending two weeks managing one's life as a person with chronic pain.

Shalvenay

01:43

@BESW I was thinking in more of a physical sense -- for instance, finding accessibility barriers in a building by spending an hour trying to get around it in a rented wheelchair

BESW

Well, yeah, but it's a step in that direction.

Also, a lot of accessibility protocols aren't "common sense" or easily inferred from even a deep understanding of the basic condition.

Shalvenay

@BESW hrm, how so?

BESW

They're instead based on assumptions about the capacity and limits of existing accessibility tools.

Shalvenay

@BESW that is probably true to some degree, yes

BESW

eg, if you have no idea how a screen reader works, it'd never occur to you that using format markdown to make lines look like headers is less accessible than using header markdown with the same visual effect.

Shalvenay

01:46

@BESW yeah -- a lot of that is the mentality word processors put into people, the notion of "painting formatting" if you will instead of actually yanno, using styles xD

nitsua60

@Shalvenay in my career--teaching--meeting accessibility requirements has been the occasion for a shift in the classroom between the mindset of "I may only present that which has been previously prepared" and "I may present such as I judge useful in that moment."

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 nods makes sense.

BESW

Similarly, if you think a screen reader parses a PDF by the order in which its elements appear on the page your PDFs will be nigh gibberish.

Shalvenay

@BESW if there's anything that'll drill that habit out of you -- it's learning basic LaTeX

BESW

@Shalvenay For me, this is going back to Weizenbaum's observation of the default human assumption that tools work the same way we do, only better.

Shalvenay

01:50

@BESW I was referring to the painting formatting thing, but yeah -- that default is a great way to get into trouble with computers

BESW

It's a screen reader, right? And we read English text left to right, top to bottom, according to how it is seen on the screen. It's very reasonable to assume a screen reader reads screens the same way.

And yeah, styles are also a decent example of that.

The idea of a "format stamp" is weird when compared to a human's experience with writing.

nitsua60

@BESW Except... it should only take one a moment's reflection to realize that left-right-top-bottom isn't how we read screens, it's how we often read text.

Shalvenay

@BESW but at the same time, it's not really weird if you go back to the era of handwritten or typewritten manuscripts, where you had to insert explicit formatting markup to tell the press operators what to do

BESW

@nitsua60 Now you're tapping into a predilection for equating superficially like things.

@Shalvenay Which was a skill needed by only a very limited subset of the population.

nitsua60

(Sorry: are you saying that I'm equating superficially like things in that statement of mine, or that I'm pointing out that people often do that?)

BESW

01:53

That's another thing we run into: broadening specialisation.

@nitsua60 Pointing it out.

nitsua60

(gotcha)

Shalvenay

@BESW that is true.

nitsua60

(that's what I thought I was doing; if I were doing the former I'd want the distinction I was missing pointed out to me!)

Shalvenay

btw @nitsua60 how's the project coming along?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay I've got all the pieces working, now have assembled into a script that'll run a thousand simulations under varying parameters. Should take about twelve minutes, so I'm on a little break!

I will not end up doing as good a job as I'd have liked, but you know it's been a busy week-plus for me =)

Shalvenay

01:56

@nitsua60 nice. just have to write up the results after that's done I take it?

nitsua60

Yup. (Speaking of writing in LaTeX...)

Shalvenay

also, if you're wondering where I was last night, Blind Guardian rocked the house man

nitsua60

It's deciding which graphics to generate and how to format/annotate them that actually tends to take me the most time.

@Shalvenay What's Blind Guardian?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah, epic fantasy power metal band, hails from Germany AFAIK -- they're one of the signature bands of that subgenre, if you will

BESW

@nitsua60 German power metal band. Combines metal and operatic styles to write songs about the Silmarillion, Dragonlance, the Iliad, etc.

nitsua60

02:00

Hmm... I like one of the nouns/adjectives in those last three sentences =|

(Also, I'm ambivalent toward Germany.)

BESW

...subgenre?

nitsua60

Dragonlance =)

Shalvenay

@BESW the whole epic metal/rock thing, it really is a subgenre to itself

BESW

@nitsua60 I linked their song about Raistlin about a week ago.

@Shalvenay I know, I was asking if that's the noun/adjective he liked.

nitsua60

(Once people start talking about subgenres within genres, my eyes glaze over a bit. My taxonomic urge is completely satiated by spine-labeling and shelving every one of my books by Library of Congress call number.)

BESW

02:02

@nitsua60 Nice.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 at least you haven't tried to grab UL/IEC 60950 on inter-library loan (hint: you can't)

nitsua60

(People often, upon first entering my house, assume that I'm a shameless library thief. 'Cause every book's got a white call number on the spine. Then they look closer and see my handwriting....)

BESW

Some of my shelves are organised by subject, some by color, some by size...

Shalvenay

@BESW my shelves are pretty random

although this reminds me that I need to haul my 5e PHB to a bookbinder because I was silly and left it sitting open a bunch

nitsua60

Alright, MATLAB just dinged... back to the grindstone. Probabl see y'all's around tomorrow.

BESW

02:05

ttfn

nitsua60

(That or cookies are done. In either case, I'm ditching you.)

BESW

Mmm, cookies.

I need to get some flaxseed meal.

trogdor

02:23

cooooookies

Magician

03:31

them: hey can you dm me me: sure, be there in a sec them: wait wha- me (at their house): you enter the cavern them: um me: there are 3 ogres

Tweeted by FiveIronFanatic on July 28, 2016 at 7:46 PM

BESW

The ogres want you to DM for them.

Magician

You just gotta follow them on twitter first.

BESW

Roll vs social media.

Magician

Pick your approach: do you Troll, Overshare, or Lurk?

Miniman

@Shalvenay The first printing had a major binding issue, you might get a free replacement.

By all reports they've been pretty good about it.

BESW

03:37

"Peintig" would be a good name for a goblin.

BESW

03:50

Making character for Fate Accelerated game with the lads. Based on Masters of Umdaar random chargen, I have a psychic cassowary/mantis monk.

Tweeted by PatrickWeekes on September 24, 2016 at 2:43 AM

BESW

05:02

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[prompt](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qqW6VMGt0PIoG_cNlCv0wIa0QAd9vdQm1vj7Ql1XRAs "Get an Absolute Tabletop RPG supplement for writing 200+ words!");
[playtest](http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/788/follow-needs-playtesters/ "Help playtest Ben Robbins' new game!");

BESW

07:23

Today I swapped calamansi drink recipes with the woman staffing the Burger King drive-through window.

trogdor

lol

one of them recognizes me when I got there sometimes, might be or might not be the same person XD

Zachiel

09:02

@UrhoKarila Let us engage in JOLLY [T]/ COOPERATION

Zachiel

09:13

...I fail at escaping backslashes and at finding backticks on the internet quickly enough. :(

I always knew I had back problems, but not of this kind.

2

kviiri

10:13

Hiya.

Zachiel

Hello

kviiri

10:31

26/30 player slots filled for our student org's RP night. Will have to think about getting a bigger venue at this pace...

nitsua60

11:21

@kviiri excellent problem to have =)

kviiri

11:52

@nitsua60 Yeah, sort of.

The club house where we have our board game events and so can be frightfully small for events of this scale though. Not enough room for all the games.

Shalvenay

13:07

@Miniman so just contact WotC/Hasbro and they'll give me some sort of RMA or just send a replacement for that matter?

Miniman

@Shalvenay There's a lot of exchanges like this one - so I'd try contacting WotC, hopefully should be a free replacement.

Shalvenay

13:21

hey @nitsua60

nitsua60

hiya

Shalvenay

project done I take it? :)

nitsua60

yeah, grading now

(our school has classes on Saturdays, so my next one starts in about 12 minutes)

@Shalvenay what's Saturday morning in the midwest look like?

Shalvenay

13:38

@nitsua60 uh, pretty quiet :P

kviiri

15:10

Been working on my six algorithm assignments all day. Solved two out of six.

Including some minor procrastination and cooking, but eh... I could be better at this stuff.

Shalvenay

hey there @kviiri

kviiri

Hi!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

kviiri

Trying to get homework done, nothing special. You?

Shalvenay

@kviiri working on a project myself but will go eat soon

kviiri

15:19

@Shalvenay What sort of project?

Shalvenay

@kviiri microcontroller board for school -- working on programming the timer correctly as that's the first step to getting key debounce/scan working

kviiri

@Shalvenay Wow, sounds HC.

Shalvenay

@kviiri fairly, yeah xD

kviiri

I'm working on my theory stuff. Trying to present a version of LZ77 that produces optimal bit length solutions for varying size characters.

Shalvenay

@kviiri ah.

Shalvenay

15:38

hey again @nitsua60

kviiri

16:57

After studying algorithms the whole day, I think the most important thing I've learned is folding a paper bag for biodegradable waste from a newspaper sheet.

BESW

23:04

... I would watch the hell out of this movie. https://t.co/gQ396Fcu4F

Tweeted by Nash076 on September 24, 2016 at 9:33 PM

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