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BESW
BESW
01:02
Doggles
Doggles are a commercial brand of sunglasses for dogs in the form of tinted goggles designed to fit the shape of a dog's head. While marketed as a fashion item, several practical and medical uses have been reported, and prescription lenses for dogs with impaired eyesight are available. == Invention and construction == Doggles were invented by Roni Di Lullo after she noticed her dog, Midknight, squinting in the sunlight. Experiments were made with human sunglasses and sports goggles before a pair was developed to fit the shape of a dog's head. They are now produced by the Doggles Company in Diamond...
Magician
Magician
01:18
@nitsua60 Once you submit a post for review, it's out of your hands, and into mine. System Matters is still there, don't worry. Would you like to keep working on it?
(leaving it as draft makes it accessible to more people, in general only submit for review once you're done).
Magician
Magician
01:41
Ok, I've read the post. It's good, but I'm not sure what the botch in it is. I've turned it back into a draft so some other contributors can take a look.
We did discuss having a category for mild mistakes, something that could have gone better, but I think even for that it'd need to be reworked a bit.
BESW
BESW
02:06
A few ideas: Don't start in medias res. Talk about the problems you encountered with Dungeon World in proportion to the problems you encountered with D&D 5e (if you give specific examples of D&D 5e problems but summarise DW problems, that's a bad balance). And I'm really not sure what "system matters" has to do with learning about one system by playing another, but your conclusion makes them sound directly related.
International Vulture Awareness Day. Apparently it's a thing.
trogdor
trogdor
02:44
@Magician yeah, as you recall, I made some similar mistake XD
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Magician @BESW thanks. I guess the botch, in my mind, was not appreciating the things we were going to lose when switching, and being mindful of how certain players were going to lose out. We'd talked about going rules-light and the one guy who really dug into stuff in 5e was perfectly happy. But the one who's personality wasn't to just jump into things, and the one who it turns out feels a lot more supported with the structure of an action economy....
I'll take a (fourth) stab at it tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback.
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
hey there @nitsua60
nitsua60
nitsua60
03:00
@Shalvenay hiya
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
03:15
@nitsua60 how's that first programming project look to be?
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Shalvenay Wish I knew. We still don't have any details. But I'm going to take a flyer and say we should go ahead and figure out a time for chatizen-DW, and see what comes of it. If I have to bail three weeks in because things got swamped, I trust no one would hold it against me.
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@nitsua60 what language are you teaching btw?
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Shalvenay This is for a class I'm taking; we'll be working in MATLAB.
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@nitsua60 oh, ah. sighs MATLAB's...a mess to learn.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Shalvenay I'd already known IDL before ever seeing MATLAB, so I think it might have been less traumatic for me than for some others.
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
03:22
@nitsua60 it's less the syntax and more the experience of having a programming language taught to you bass-ackwards
(I tried to learn it as part of a Control Theory class -- screwed me up six ways 'til Sunday because I was learning all this weird MATLAB specific stuff before I ever learned how to do things like, uh, conditionals and loops
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Shalvenay ugh
BESW
BESW
03:41
How do I add this to a Discord server?
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
03:56
@BESW not a clue
 
2 hours later…
BESW
BESW
06:23
**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[Fate module](http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/191782/Good-Neighbors--A-World-of-Adventure-for-Fate-Core "In Good Neighbors, players take on two roles: a human who must deal with the politics of this new industry, and a fairy who feels the full spiritual damage of the Industry.");
 
4 hours later…
Zachiel
Zachiel
10:47
After finishing to play The Witcher 2 I have just one comment to do. I can't drive myself to let Geralt and friends kill named enemies if I'm not forced.
 
2 hours later…
Zachiel
Zachiel
12:46
Well maybe it's two comments: I'm now torn between playing something else and starting the game anew to take the other path.
nitsua60
nitsua60
13:42
@doppelgreener do you think this is better?
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
13:58
@nitsua60 I do! I really did find the comment on not having a logo quite strange.
nitsua60
nitsua60
It was based off of Miniman's distinction drawn on the Meta Q, but badly summarized by me... =(
I'm starting to dig everybody's dislike of "list questions" =\
But, in all honesty, part of the reason I ever posted that question was to try to figure out what's a 'good' list question and not, so I'm certainly gaining firsthand experience =)
BESW
BESW
Yey!
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
what part are you disliking?
i think it's pretty well done
seems like it's just got a bit of complexity where some things sorta-do sorta-don't belong on the list under the criteria given
nitsua60
nitsua60
@doppelgreener Hmm.... (1) I actually think Mala makes a decent point in their recent comment, that simply curating a list doesn't really require expertise. That said, maybe the "expertise" is in being able to find things that WotC "releases."
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
i think it takes a considerable amount of understanding of D&D's product line such that newbies may not know what scope is available for them to look in.
nitsua60
nitsua60
14:08
Which is probably true, and perhaps was true of "thunder and lightning damage"? (Which is only to say that perhaps my initial downvote on that question was too trigger-happy. The kerfuffle that ensued I claim no responsibility for.)
(2) I haven't yet seen any benefit to the CW status of the answer. It doesn't strike me that any more people are editing/curating it than might happen with any other answer, and I'm getting "this is why CW sucks" comments thrown my way. (Not that I can't weather a few comments, but it's still unpleasant.)
(3) Even what I'd imagined would be a very low-maintenance question like this is requiring a decent amount of maintenance.
(-1) OTOH, by votes and views, it seems like plenty of people find it a useful resource. So I think it's a net-positive, just I better understand the downsides now.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
(2) sucks, sorry to hear that. Like I wrote on my own meta post, I don't think CW should be used just because something's a list answer; CW isn't a fix for anything and has a very specific use case and should be used just about never% of the time.
(the amount of times it should be used is within the margin of negligible statistical error)
nitsua60
nitsua60
(4) And the Anthropomorphic Mice just got demoted =(
(rightly so, but still....)
@doppelgreener That was a really good answer, by the way.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 thanks very much.
BESW
BESW
@nitsua60 And still no 5e musteval, apparently.
nitsua60
nitsua60
One of those ones that made me wish there were even-faker-internet points given on meta, so that I could throw a meta-bounty =)
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
14:14
aw shucks
nitsua60
nitsua60
@doppelgreener Out of curiosity, what is the use you see for CW?
BESW
BESW
@nitsua60 Fallback plan for when we run out of other things to argue about on meta.
2
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BESW +50 super-extra-fake chat-based internet points!
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 Community Wiki is for when multiple people in close contact (i.e. actually talking to each other, like two housemates, three friends, etc) are collaborating on an answer and reputation is a significant enough issue between them such that they would rather push it aside as not an issue. (Often by the time people think to do this, they are high enough rep that nobody involved cares about rep.)
It is not for "I expect other people might want to contribute to this answer" because people demonstrably will gladly do this anyway, nor is it for "I want to surrender ownership of this answer" because someone's going to be leading the charge anyway, nor is it for "this should probably be the only answer to this question so I'll open it up" because that's not how things work around here bucko; it'll be the only answer if it's really exceptionally good.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@doppelgreener That's certainly an interesting case I'd never considered.
@doppelgreener Hmm... makes me wonder if I should reassert ownership over that answer, 'cause that's almost exactly the list of things that'd occurred to me.
Isn't there something where enough distinct users editing an answer auto-converts it to CW?
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
14:24
Here's where I could imagine it seriously being relevant: a team of four academics collaborate on this big contribution in the form of a Stack Exchange answer. Two of them use the Stack site in question, and they both see this answer scoring thousands of rep points, and both of them are at three digits of rep and would surely like those rep points. Two of them do not use Stack Exchange and do not want to feel like the others who do are profiting off their work in some sense.
The magical fake internet unicorn points, while being virtually meaningless, cause a lot of stress and concern for these four. They agree to post it as CW so that nobody will be getting any points.
nitsua60
nitsua60
Ah, no. No more automatic CW conversions.
BESW
BESW
@nitsua60 How well does DW handle players wanting to make irregular choices about their PC's bioform?
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 yes, and their whole "in which we stop being dumb" paragraph still cracks me up
BESW
BESW
Basically, CW was an experiment to see if all those reasons were good reasons for that kind of a mechanic. The conclusion was "As much as it seemed like a good idea, it wasn't."
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BESW Are you talking "I wanna be plant-lady" or "I want to be a one-legged elfin Ranger"?
BESW
BESW
14:31
@nitsua60 ...I wanna be a musteval. Or a shulassakar.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BESW I've had perfectly-fine experience making that happen through a table-discussion. "BESW wants to look like this. What benefits do y'all see that conferring? Drawbacks? Should there be any mechanical implications? Okay, moving on."
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW Yeah. There's just about no circumstance in which CW is actually helpful, there's just a tiny bit of wiggle room because there will always be exceptions.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@doppelgreener Interestingly, the blog post lists "compiling a canonical reference" as the #1 reason to still choose to use it.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 There's a canon anwer for Board Games SE I'm considerig writing that I will definitely be making CW just so people can freely take a cleaver to it and stuff.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BESW I think in that case it'd be an obvious "sure, BESW can, no problem. But what's it say about the setting?" conversation.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
14:35
And because I want people to feel thoroughly unconcerned about linking to it liberally all the time whenever the topic comes up.
BESW
BESW
@nitsua60 I'm thinking it might involve a little bit of "replace one of my class's choices with the choices from another class."
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BESW We'll play it out together. If it breaks the group or the game, we'll have an "In Which We Stop Being Dumb" moment =)
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
RPG.SE just happens to also be a post-scarcity Stack Exchange where there's so many votes going around people don't need to care so much about reputation and can contribute to other peoples' answers without feeling like they have to beat those answers.
BESW
BESW
Like, musteval would probably be "thief but replace poisoning with the deity/divine guidance options from cleric."
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BESW Spellcasting? Or just the divinely-guided flavor?
That might hinge a bit on whether there's a cleric in the group.
BESW
BESW
14:38
Nah, (a) I have no interest in spellcasting complexity and (b) mustevals are spies of the divine, not heralds of the divine.
So I'd go with the "you can petition your deity for guidance based on their portfolio" move.
nitsua60
nitsua60
There's a strict prohibition on two players playing the same class in order to prevent toe-stomping. But if you're just grabbing 1 of the 3 starting moves... perhaps no so much of a problem? Definitely worth trying, I think, and worth keeping an eye on =)
BESW
BESW
And the shulassakar could easily be a cleric or a paladin (I think I'd prefer paladin, but it'd require some fiddly bits with the lore and mechanics--especially given my hoped-for backstory).
...Hm.
Zachiel
Zachiel
I think the race/class interaction might basically boil down to different alignment choices for you
BESW
BESW
I notice that the newer DW playbooks have a blank spot for race options.
nitsua60
nitsua60
Again, I think the big thing is just to be sure that we're not overshadowing new players. How to make sure of that, of course, is the trick =)
BESW
BESW
14:44
Yeah.
nitsua60
nitsua60
Anyway, gotta run. Sat AM chores to do! Thanks again for the constructive criticism, @doppelgreener =)
BESW
BESW
ttfn
I make with the sleeps now.
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW Goodnight!
@nitsua60 Tally ho! Thank you for receiving it well.
 
1 hour later…
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
15:52
@Mala the martyr act is wearing thin.
 
4 hours later…
Anaphory
Anaphory
20:05
@BESW I do quite like some of the additional playbooks some people came up with, though I haven't seen how well they hold up overall.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Anaphory Is there a central location for those, or just poke around for them?
Anaphory
Anaphory
Nerdwerds has a bunch of them, and another bunch are on sale on drivethrough.
Not good at copyediting here, links to follow in a mo.
nerdwerds.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/dungeon-world-resources.html
Jacob Randolph has written some magic user classes, some of which I did like, because I don't much enjoy preparing spells.
Though I did play a straight wizard myself in a one-shot who prepared by some kind of crafting.
nitsua60
nitsua60
20:29
@Anaphory Thanks!
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
20:44
hey there @nitsua60
 
2 hours later…
kviiri
kviiri
23:00
@nitsua60 In Dungeon World? I think that only applies for everyone's first character, when the campaign starts. Subsequent characters or changing the playbook are allowed to result in duplicates.
nitsua60
nitsua60
@kviiri Yes, in Dungeon World. And, for context, this'll be everyone's first character of the campaign and a number of players' first DW characters ever. So I think it's probably worth treading carefully, at least.
BESW
BESW
Yeah. I have a tendency to get... fancy... with my PCs and I need to learn how to tamp that down.
nitsua60
nitsua60
23:15
@BESW I don't know that it necessarily must be tamped down, I think it just needs to be intentional.

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