TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:01

15

I've often gone through and edited out the system name from question titles. One of the reasons I do this is so that the question titles are snappier and more likely to get attention. Lets take a page from Gaming.SE's book and make our question titles awesome. Some great examples from Gaming: ...

trogdor

@BESW that is the best bait

BESW

And, hey, I've got more votes on that new question in 25 minutes than I did on this more boringly titled Bubblegumshoe question in two and a half weeks.

nitsua60

00:16

Holy uncaptured reputation, Batman. 765 past the rep-cap yesterday! I think that's a personal record.

[emparassing dance] PR on unearned rep... PR on unearned rep....

BESW

No longer dance the Dance of Rep Cap, Numfar.

nitsua60

[/embarassing dance]

BESW

BTW, re: earlier discussion on gendered pronouns. Bubblegumshoe explicitly uses female pronouns for a generic Sleuth, because the genre they're working in defaults toward female Sleuths.

> From Nancy Drew to Veronica Mars, the iconic teen sleuth is gendered female, in much the same way, perhaps, that the iconic armored knight is gendered male. Thus, the default pronoun in the Bubblegumshoe rules set is “she.” We use “he” to refer only to specifically male characters (her Dad, her boyfriend) or when clarity would completely collapse otherwise.
Players, of course, may create and portray Sleuths of other genders if they wish.

nitsua60

@BESW You mean they recommend to don't use him-things?

(I do like the subtlety of "Sleuths of other genders.")

BESW

@nitsua60 Heh. Evil Hat goes out of their way to normalise that kind of thing.

Greener geeked out when he saw the Create Advantage example for Rapport on pp 138/139 of Fate Core; it features interracial gay flirting without comment.

nitsua60

00:46

VtC unclear

VtC rec

Nanban Jim

Hey everyone!

Shalvenay

@NanbanJim hey there -- how're things going?

Nanban Jim

Pretty good! The Angry GM's GenCon charity fundraiser cosplay just got pushed over his goal. :D

Polisurgist

I'm now watching that "what do they eat" video and wanting to strangle the narrator

Nanban Jim

It started with a Twitter joke about him cosplaying Sailor Jupiter. It kinda snowballed. He eventually said it was a joke, he'd only do it if he could raise money for charities with it and... well, enough people informally pledged said cash.

I'm not sure WHY I want to see a broad shouldered hairy man in a short pleated skirt. But dammit it's for a good cause! :D

BESW

00:59

All I can respond is...

Polisurgist

Are we talking about angryDM?

Nanban Jim

Yeah, though he rebranded slightly.

I'll stop being a coy twit: generosity.com/community-fundraising/…

Polisurgist

Now I'm really regretting skipping gencon this year

Nanban Jim

Right??

Polisurgist

That's far more interesting than what I was watching when I came in here, so thanks

Joel Harmon

01:05

I'm not sure how I'd feel about cons in general; then I go talk to some friends who worked otakon and decide it's probably for the best

Polisurgist

they can be fun, but also a big headache

Joel Harmon

I'm sure the type of people varies greatly with the con as well

Shalvenay

yeah -- the con I was at recently was more of a general cosplay/comics/... convention, so while it was pretty nice, there was also a lot of stuff there I wasn't interested in

Nanban Jim

I've heard it's best if you get a group together. Like... people you can flee to for some semblance of sanity.

Or... whatever passes for sanity in your life.

Shalvenay

OTOH -- there's one in my area that's a dedicated tabletop gaming convention, which should be more up my alley

@JoelHarmon paint drying as we speak?

Joel Harmon

01:10

@Shalvenay drying/dried, yes

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon cool. you still need some time, or are you available now?

Joel Harmon

I could start now, sure

Shalvenay

to the NAB :)

nitsua60

01:37

Man, this Q&A is just pushing all my buttons...

Adeptus

@nitsua60 Due to the "meta-gaming" claim?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 it is pushing mine as well -- the guy who claimed it's edition agnostic doesn't know what in the world he's talking about

Miniman

@Shalvenay Not just edition - he thinks it's system-agnostic, too.

Shalvenay

I want to give an answer badly, but the OP seems to be unavailable (hopefully not unwilling!) to return to their question and clarify

nitsua60

(a) I hate traps (like these);
(2) the player isn't metagaming, it's just a decent tactic to barrel through if you can;
(iv) the answerers *are* recommending metagaming: structuring traps to the party, rather than from the perspective of the trap-setter

Shalvenay

01:41

@Miniman yeah -- he's clueless

Joel Harmon

there isn't a universal definition for metagaming, though, and that may be part of the issue

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 in a sense, yes -- they're recommending structuring traps with foreknowledge of the opponents (although given the right trapsetter, some of Joe's suggestions are good)

Miniman

Also:

> In a perfect world I could discuss this with him privately but there are real life group politics I have to deal with.

nitsua60

I think Asscrack the demilich was the last trapsetter I had any respect for.

Miniman

What does that even mean?

Shalvenay

01:42

@JoelHarmon yeah, and furthermore, people don't grasp the implications of some of the metagaming definitions in use

Adeptus

@nitsua60 I think there is a view that what is (bad) metagaming for a player is fair play for the DM

Shalvenay

@Adeptus that too -- the "DM is omniscient so his dungeon creators should be too" view

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon [grumble grumble Joel's absolutely right grumble it's almost like grumble I just read an Angry article on just that topic]

Adeptus

@nitsua60 (but aside from that, there should be a variety of traps, not just "the triggerer takes HP damage")

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 furthermore, the assumption that the player in question is metagaming is predicated on a misunderstanding about observability vs quantifiability

Joel Harmon

01:45

@nitsua60 you had me at "Joel's absolutely right"

Shalvenay

D&D characters don't have the wherewithal to quantify HP, but they have a qualitative sense of damage (humans do IRL, too)

Miniman

@Adeptus I'll be honest - if I lived in the D&D universe, and was creating a dungeon, I wouldn't do HP damage at all. Level/ability drain is definitely the way to go.

nitsua60

@Adeptus The variety of traps I understand at all are (a) detain them indefinitely, (b) kill them immediately, (c) convince them they've achieved the thing they came for.

Shalvenay

@Miniman no kidding

@nitsua60 (d) alert human defenders (alarms are lumped in with traps in D&D AIUI)

nitsua60

@Miniman NPCs. Trap 'em in a suburban furnished basement with teen-aged girl admirers. Make them role-play their way out.

Adeptus

01:46

@Shalvenay Yeah. He's my-guy'ing a "no pain, no gain" type. "I'll run through, take all the damage, to save the rest of the party"

Miniman

@nitsua60 None of these have a high success chance, though. e) Gradually and reliably wear down their resources until you can easily pick them off is just about the only viable trap strategy.

Adeptus

@Miniman Oh, you are evil! Level & ability drain are the worst punishments!

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 I'd say most traps are going for (b), which would work on the 99% of the world's population that isn't Adventurers

Miniman

@Adeptus As I said, this is if I was designing traps for real. As a DM, and as a player, I think level/ability drain is dumb and annoying.

One thing I find weird is that neither of the answers suggested traps that don't just discharge once and are then useless. If he wants to run through the traps, let him, but that doesn't necessarily make things safer for the rest of the party.

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah, repeaters are something I'd suggest as a tactical adaptation to the tactic in question.

nitsua60

01:54

@Shalvenay now that I've finally parsed it: "yes." I think you're making the same point I tried to make in this comment.

@Shalvenay <cough>metagaming</cough> =)

Part of me feels like we should be building a chat-dungeon right now.

(Not designing, I say. Building.)

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 while I agree with the sentiment about pushing yourself, I don't know any experienced hikers who would deliberately short themselves rations for three days just because they don't absolutely need to eat for that time

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon yeah -- they'd have more data points to extrapolate from though

nitsua60

To me it's more about knowing yourself. One might not choose to go through that, but enough time pushing oneself "out there" and I imagine one would know "actually, I went four days on virtually nothing and it only took one day of good food and rest to bounce back completely."

(I.e. what @shalv said.)

Shalvenay

also, it seems that Tiamat has finally finished devouring wax eagle's intertubes hookup.

(as long as I don't have to go bug Rhino Driver from Aviation.SE to go on a sortie to save poor wax eagle from the ravages of dragonkind....)

nitsua60

[so help me, I'm actually crafting an answer to that trap-post.]

Adeptus

02:15

It looks like DMs Guild may soon offer print-on-demand copies of old classics

2

nitsua60

02:32

Okay, I've stepped into the trap.

With that I'm off to bed. Night, all.

ThreePhaseEel

03:18

hey @Emrakul

user61230

@ThreePhaseEel Heyo!

user61230

Shhhhhalvenay-in-disguise?

ThreePhaseEel

@Emrakul yes, I don't know why chat.SE decided to change my nick out from under me :P

maybe it has to do with aggregate rep on all SE accounts with that nick or smth weirdo like that?

Miniman

@ThreePhaseEel That is weird, actually - it's still showing your RPG account as your parent user.

ThreePhaseEel

@Miniman but under my DIY/EE/Eng name

user61230

03:20

I can fix that for you if you'd like.

ThreePhaseEel

@Emrakul go ahead :) (it's silly that chat.SE only lets you have one name across the whole site while you can have a separate name per-Stack on all Stacks)

TY

user61230

@Shalvenay There you go!

Shalvenay

I wonder when that started, actually

user61230

Yeah, I mean, I can get why it's done that way technically, but it does seem a little silly.

user61230

@Shalvenay When the name changed?

Shalvenay

03:24

@Emrakul yeah

user61230

You might have just gotten unlucky, if you changed your name on one site and copied it network-wide.

user61230

Caching! Waves hands in rainbow.

Shalvenay

didn't do any name changes on any stacks lately, that much is certain

user61230

Weeeird.

Adeptus

05:24

Humble Bundle has a Vampire: The Masquerade (Revised Edition) bundle

@BESW ^ timely

BESW

06:12

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[VtM bundle](https://www.humblebundle.com/books/vampire-masquerade-rpg-bundle "Vampire: The Masquerade (Revised Edition) books--lots, cheap!");
[giveaway](http://www.evilhat.com/home/review-giveaway/ "Review Fate More products to enter an Evil Hat raffle. -July 31-");

Re-reading Bubblegumshoe this afternoon, something clicked. Again. [new notes for the fourth time]

[game starts tomorrow]

[hyperventilates]

Miniman

@BESW Just take it one thing at a time. Start by breathing into a paper bag.

BESW

Okay, I can--we don't have paper bags WHAT DO I DO

Miniman

Well, as I understand it you can't actually die by hyperventilating.

BESW

[breathing into plastic bag] Oh, that's good to hear.

Miniman

@BESW Plastic bags are bad for the environment!

You should breathe into a calico bag or something.

BESW

06:23

Biodegradable plastic bags that get re-used at least twice and carefully disposed of afterward, though.

Miniman

@BESW How dare you undermine my sweeping statement with rational, logical reasoning.

Adeptus

@Miniman All generalisations are wrong!

trogdor

06:40

@Adeptus my one weakness, logic loops ! noooooes

BESW

TIL @trogdor is also a Star Trek robot.

trogdor

not just a Star Trek one

BESW

Also a Doctor Who one, right.

trogdor

nice steriotyping

BESW

11:54

BTW, @trogdor, Bubblegumshoe says right out several of the things you've been struggling with. eg:

> The hook [first scene] is the only scene you can usually count on to go as you intended.

trogdor

do you mean to suggest I should try GMing it?

BESW

Not necessarily, but I find it interesting to see Evil Hat filling in previous gaps.

And it might be useful just to read with a GM's eye.

trogdor

mk

I have been trying to read it a bit

BESW

I'm actually not sure Bubblegumshoe would be a great fit for you to GM, at least not at this point. It's very much of the "prepare more than you need and throw your notes out the window" school.

On the other hand, it might help you to run games where that's explicitly the situation.

trogdor

ah

BESW

12:06

A lot of the GM advice boils down to "Have ideas about what will happen but be ready for the players to do better stuff."

2

trogdor

I do think I could benefit from reading it with that kind of mindset

@BESW I think I feel about as conflicted as these couple sentences about it

like, practicing that kind of scenario might be the best way to learn what I need, but diving right into it might not be the best either

nitsua60

13:19

Title awesomification suggestion: Somebody broke my piece and now I want to flip the table!

(Also, I'm trademarking "awesomification" right now.)

Miniman

@nitsua60 I'm not sure a question of "who is in the right" needs attention drawn to it.

nitsua60

@Miniman True, true. But at least that ^^ title wouldn't make it seem like it's a question about a green gelatinous cube =)

Wibbs

Goddam its frustrating how often Dungeon World games get D&D centric answers

Miniman

@Wibbs But isn't it nice watching what the democratic process does to them?

Wibbs

@Miniman I guess

Creates a lot of unnecessary work though

nitsua60

13:36

@Wibbs Funny, I've just been delighted by seeing so many DW questions come through these last few weeks. I don't know if it's a perception-bias in that I just started playing, but I feel like there's been an uptick.

nitsua60

13:53

@Miniman can I suggest an improvement to this answer?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Go for it.

I make no guarantees about my reaction, of course.

nitsua60

I think you're right that the magic resistance doesn't automatically flow, so it'd be a GM's generosity to grant it.

But I think that you're sort of "leaving the door open" for readers by not explicitly tackling the question of the familiar having the form's "statistics."

I think it'd be worth outlining exactly what is automatically taken and what's not.

It wouldn't have to be as long-winded as this, for example, but pointing out that the MR feature in the stat block isn't, by rule, a "statistic" is what seals it for me. (And I don't think is obvious from your answer.)

Miniman

Ah, you mean move the argument that took place in the comments into the answer?

nitsua60

Yeah, and I don't think it's even fully fleshed-out in the comments. But yes, I was reading the comments.

I think your answer could benefit from a structure like (a) the familiar assumes a form, explicitly taking on its statistics, (b) statistics are... (per MMpp.6-11), (c) the magic resistance isn't in that list.

@Miniman actually, though, now I'm starting to second-guess your answer =\

Because familiar takes the form's statistics.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Sure, which includes Magic Resistance.

nitsua60

14:01

Per MM pp.6-11 "special traits" are among statistics, and special traits are "those things appearing after CR and before Actions." (paraphrasing)

So the pseudodragon's MR is a special trait, and should accrue to the familiar.

Oh, never mind.

Your Q&A is about the transference, which is from the sidebar...

Miniman

Ayup.

nitsua60

strike my last six lines.

Miniman

All good.

nitsua60

So I still agree with your conclusion, and maybe your post doesn't need any editing.

Miniman

Someone else made the same mistake, so it's probably worthwhile.

Besides, I fixed a couple of spelling mistakes already.

nitsua60

14:04

Eh, I think it could still use the edit to clarify exactly what is assumed and what's not when the spirit "takes the form of a pseudodragon."

I.e. it gets the statistics, but not (necessarily) the sidebar.

Miniman

I went with the easy definition - yellow box, green box.

nitsua60

Wow, that's much simpler than I tend to make things. No eighteen-item numbered list?

Miniman

Nah, judging from some of the comments I get I need to aim pretty low.

eimyr

14:26

@nitsua60 Yello

nitsua60

@eimyr Mello

eimyr

How's life?

nitsua60

'salright. Trying to get through a pile of tasks before the end of the day. (Should be doable--not a huge lift.)

I was selfishly hoping to snag Reversal on the traps/metagaming question; when I went to bed it was at -2 or -3 and my asnwer was around +12. But after an edit or two the question's gained traction and stands well out of the red.

eimyr

You should be playing Pokemon, not Stackexchange GO

nitsua60