TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

01:39

@Anaphory Am I reading the last word of that first sentence correctly? Does it start \gamma\delta?

Anaphory

I think so, I was wondering about that as well. It's Google translate, and I just found out that the Axou speak Imperial=English, not Aξου=Greek anyway…

So no Monty Python reference for me.

nitsua60

@Anaphory I mean, I don't know squat about Greek; just sounding it out courtesy of my physics degree =) But \delta\theta just seemed like a strange phoneme sitting there.

@Anaphory out of bed so soon?

Joel Harmon

02:25

@Anaphory try "I'm sorry, I don't speak this language, but fortunately I was taught this one explanatory sentence."

Miniman

@JoelHarmon Hi!

Joel Harmon

02:38

oh hey, @Miniman

nitsua60

chat question: once I've created a bookmarked conversation, where does that "live"? I.e. how do I get back to it?

Joel Harmon

@Miniman: @nitsua60 and I are double-teaming a new guy at the moment, but I would like to talk about that other question

Miniman

@nitsua60 Ok, the link was right, but oneboxing overwrote it. chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/11/…

@nitsua60 Wait, that broke.

@JoelHarmon So, one thing I should say first: I don't think your answer is a bad answer. It's a good answer, and I upvoted it. I just think it could be a better answer :)

Joel Harmon

02:54

that's what I'm here to ask about

my reading of this question is "I've already decided there is a magic shop, and it's now part of the world. Period. Also, how much does stuff cost?"

I'm interested in how/why you consider the existence of the shop important, when I read it as simply DM fiat

nitsua60

@Miniman hah! Okay--it's room info (tiny link just above the avatar list) and then "conversation" tab, right? Thanks.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yep.

@JoelHarmon Ok, so, coming from 3.5e, it's a natural assumption that players can buy magic items. More importantly, it's an assumption that I don't think the querent actually realised they were making.

So your answer answers the question, but leaves the OP with a magic shop where they negotiate all the prices.

Joel Harmon

that seems likely (though as a note, the querent never mentioned 3.5; I did)

I am totally unfamiliar with Hoard, so I just assumed it was part of the module; perhaps that's part of my perspective issue

Miniman

@JoelHarmon Good point! I actually hadn't noticed that.

@JoelHarmon There's my assumptions tripping me up - there's no magic item shop in Hoard as published, and I guess I assumed everyone knew that.

Joel Harmon

I took a shot in the dark assuming OP might have experience with other systems, and threw in that line just in case it might help them gain perspective

I know Hoard is 5e, either 1-5 or 6-10, and probably features a dragon of some kind

Miniman

03:02

Another point to consider is that you're not just answering for the OP: anyone looking for a magic item price list is reasonably likely to stumble across the question.

Joel Harmon

hmm, OP seemed uncomfortable enough that I didn't think they'd throw in a magic shop on a whim

Miniman

So even if the OP deliberately put a magic item shop in, it's still worth a note that they aren't normally a thing, for the benefit of other, more confused readers.

Joel Harmon

I agree with the other seekers, which is why I explicitly referenced the table and how to look up things by rarity, as well as where to find rarity in the description

Miniman

@JoelHarmon I suspect what happened there is that "They stumbled into a magic shop and asked for a Bag of Holding." Actually means one of the players said "I go to the magic item shop and buy a Bag of Holding" and the DM just went with it.

Joel Harmon

Hmmm

Miniman

03:04

Especially likely if the player was more experienced than the DM, which is often the case.

Joel Harmon

yeah, he's mum on any previous experience for himself or the players

Miniman

Essentially, I'm just concerned that the OP might be coming in not realising that the idea of a magic item shop is fundamentally foreign to D&D 5e, and helping them with this specific difficulty is only going to lead them to different difficulties in the future.

Joel Harmon

I suppose in the end I answered the actual question asked, and made the assumption that OP knew what he was doing, other than this one point on the rules

I think that's pretty fair

Miniman

@JoelHarmon As I said, your answer's a good one.

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon in re: one of your comments on the background/starting equipment question...

Miniman

03:09

I'm happy to leave it there; I don't think you need to change your answer at all. Just that it might be a bit better with a small change.

nitsua60

did you know that if you type [chat] in a comment, it'll auto-magically convert to a link to RPG General Chat?

Joel Harmon

@Miniman I'm inclined to leave it, especially as another higher rated answer covers it; my main goal is to improve how I read questions so I can communicate more effectively in the future. Thanks for your feedback.

@nitsua60 I did not know that; thanks.

Miniman

@JoelHarmon Thanks for not reacting defensively :) giving feedback is always a bit risky on the web.

nitsua60

[amen]

Joel Harmon

that, plus the fact that text loses all tone and inflection, leads to many a misunderstanding

Miniman

03:12

@JoelHarmon Aye.

Joel Harmon

ok; time for a walk. Nice talking to you guys.

Miniman

@JoelHarmon Cya!

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon have a nice $LOCAL_TIME

Miniman

@nitsua60 You know, this question really exemplifies the problems of having the name of an edition be a strict subset of the name of another edition.

nitsua60

@Miniman which are you thinking? 3 and 3.5?

Miniman

03:16

@nitsua60 <b>D&D</b>3.<b>5e</b>

Ok, that didn't turn out too well, but you get the idea.

nitsua60

got it--and nice gestalt-editing there =)

watching as you edited made it perfectly clear =)

Miniman

Huh, HTML only works on main. Oh well.

nitsua60

Just wait 'til we petition overlords for MathJax in chat

Miniman

Also: always-on 3rd-level spell? If it's haste, no price is too high.

nitsua60

@Miniman it's weird; there's actually a 3.5 spell he wants to duplicate. (See comments.) So it won't be cut-and-dry, but it's right up the alley of my favorite sort of "well, we don't really know, but here are all the things in that neighborhood that you should consider when working with your GM" research-project-cum-answers =)

Okay, I feel stupid for not knowing, but what's the name of the 5e spell that lets you breathe water?

Miniman

03:26

@nitsua60 Probably my longest comment ever.

@nitsua60 Water Breathing.

nitsua60

@Miniman I figured "go 20 levels in druid and live out your days as a

Colossal squid

The colossal squid (Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni, from Greek mesos (middle), onycho (claw, nail), and teuthis (squid)), sometimes called the Antarctic or giant cranch squid, is believed to be the largest squid species in terms of mass. It is the only known member of the genus Mesonychoteuthis. It is known from only a few specimens, and current estimates put its maximum size at 12–14 m (39–46 ft) long and weighing possibly up to 750 kg (1,650 lb), based on analysis of smaller and immature specimens, making it the largest known invertebrate. == Morphology == Unlike the giant squid, whose arms...

@Miniman thanks

Miniman

@nitsua60 I'm heading towards "True Polymorph into a Marilith" as closest to what he really wants.

nitsua60

ten creatures! (Water breathing, that is.)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yep, but the items that provide it always-on only provide for one creature.

nitsua60

@Miniman yeah, still not "cheap" by any stretch. This is clearly a 3.x-era crafter who doesn't yet have his head around 5e.

Miniman

03:29

@nitsua60 I mean, if, hypothetically, you were looking into always-on items for some reason.

nitsua60

@Miniman right; which is why it's not a great comparator for this research project =)

Miniman

@nitsua60 I dunno, I'm inclined to suspect it's a casual Googler who's read a lot of 3.x stuff and not realised it doesn't apply to 5e.

nitsua60

(Not like I'm looking at the Cap of water breathing and the L3 spell water breathing with both books open... I've already found detect thoughts*/*helm of telepathy and jump*/*boots of springing)

Miniman

Anyone who's delved into the depths of 3.x item crafting is way too much of an expert to get editions confused.

nitsua60

@Miniman gotcha.

Miniman

03:32

@nitsua60 I know I don't have to tell you, but it's impossible to answer in general for any 3rd-level spell. (Beyond the answer "it depends", obviously.)

nitsua60

yeah, but I'm curious if it'll be possible to set some sensible guidelines/boundaries

Miniman

@nitsua60 While I remember, the Scimitar of Speed is worth a look for you, too.

nitsua60

or just say "hey, look a these dozen things which are the only that are in your ballpark.. and there's no rhyme or reason so it's all you and your GM"

Miniman

@nitsua60 I think you need "Welcome to 5e" on the end of that :P

nitsua60

@Miniman I'm also curious if the sane magic item price index will actually reveal some useful scheme, where the horrible four-category 5e "costs" are so useless

nitsua60

03:48

What the [filth] and [foul], I'll [filth] and [foul]... he'd already read the relevant page. Good night, all.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yikes.

Joel Harmon

dang it, @nitsua60, you post a good DW question when I've loaned out my book

Miniman

@JoelHarmon I'd get it back if I were you - I think there's more questions where that came from.

trogdor

there are

Joel Harmon

I bet

trogdor

04:00

I am pretty sure XD

unless he already posted more than 2 or 3

then I have no idea

Joel Harmon

but it's a tougher call than that; I trade-borrowed it for a copy of The Worst of Grimtooth's Traps, and I haven't finished that yet

maybe a better answer is to buy a second copy, so I can foist the game off onto my friend group

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon $10 pdf bundle from DTRPG?

Miniman

@JoelHarmon Careful with that - I almost bought a book specifically to answer a Stack question, but I pulled myself back from the edge of that particular precipice just at the last moment.

Joel Harmon

I am out of time for now. For the record, @nitsua60, my answer started off with "Monsters should never act on their own. Just like the rest of Dungeon World, the monsters react to things the player characters narratively do." Soft moves should lead to hard moves, and remember 7-9 can force a Tough Choice which may include damage

nitsua60

04:15

@JoelHarmon sounds reasonable. I guess my reactions need to be more dangerous and more frequent?

@AlexWigand you should be able to chat now--20 pts is the magic number, I believe.

Nice answers, @Sebkha =)

Sebkha

@nitsua60 I'm flattered. ^_^

People get so focused on magic items and class features that they sometimes forget how much fun it is to command minions to do your bidding, rather than sullying your high-level hands.

BESW

@JoelHarmon Some of my father's friends thought it would be hilarious teach him how to say "I'm so sorry, I don't speak Japanese" in flawlessly accented Japanese.

3

...they were right.

@Sebkha I once designed a 3.5 necromancer who could control at least 25 times her HD worth of undead.

She rode a skeletal Nightmare in the clouds above her army, escorted by a squadron of gargoyle zombies.

Fibericon

04:36

Ooof, it's hot today. And I'm about as stereotypical a nerd as you can find, so that was unpleasant.

trogdor

@BESW just in case flying by itself wasn't enough, classy

I mean, in a world where people can fly with the right spell, it is a good precaution

nitsua60

@Miniman is there anything you can wild shape into that can grapple more than 2 targets, though? I looked at that briefly, but even the octopus just grapples one target. Marilith and Roper looked like the good True Polymorph targets, getting 4 and 6, respectively.

(Also, the pizza mention got you a spot on my "bounty this once it's old enough" list.)

Sebkha

Anything with paralysis could count as a lot of grapples....

Deploy a dozen panicked cockatrices and see who's left mobile. :)

nitsua60

(you and your minions...)

Miniman

@nitsua60 That's a good point - for some reason I remembered the Giant Octopus as not having that limit, but it does.

Sebkha

04:44

🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔

nitsua60

@Miniman yeah; strangely enough you can grapple less as an octopus than as a human.

(Maybe it's because the MM drawing only has one tentacle?)

Miniman

@nitsua60 I suspect it's a case of WotC forseeing the 8-person grapple abuse and shutting it down before it happened, but going a bit too far.

BESW

Maybe they expect you to play a Swordapus instead of a Gapplepus.

nitsua60

So yeah, I think polymorph or shpaechange->roper=6 grapples is the best that 'e can hope for.

(Short of sebkha'ing the thing.)

Miniman

@nitsua60 True Polymorph, not Polymorph, though, since Polymorph is locked to beast-type.

nitsua60

04:48

@Miniman sooth.

BESW

05:36

♪ Diggy Diggy Hole

►

trogdor

certainly a dwarf song, yep

BESW

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
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lisardggY

06:28

Good morning.

BESW

06:48

[wave]

doppelgreener

ello!

doppelgreener

08:04

@Miniman that "none of which count as weapons" is a really confusing thing for the rules to say.

Miniman

08:15

@doppelgreener Yeah, unfortunately, whenever D&D tries to fix a broken rule, they create a different broken rule.

doppelgreener

it's like... "instead of using a weapon to make a weapon attack, you can perform one of these actions, which aren't weapons." (sorry, are you implying actions can normally count as weapons?)

Miniman

@doppelgreener Closer to "instead of using a weapon to make a weapon attack, you can perform this action, with one of these things, which aren't weapons"

doppelgreener

@Miniman oh, yeah, but it's missing the "with one of these things" statement. A punch is an action, a fist is presumably the non-weapon in question.

but it's saying the punch isn't a weapon?

Miniman

@doppelgreener Ah, right, I see what you mean.

doppelgreener

they're not anyway; fists are the weapons you use for a punch! :P

Miniman

08:21

Like, I said, it's broken.

eimyr

09:56

tadaaaa

huh

weird

oh well

Miniman

Huh?

eimyr

I tried changing my avatar

it didn't work

Miniman

It takes time for it to populate across to chat.

trogdor

yeah, it isn't an immediate thing

usually takes about an hour or two, in my experience

eimyr

I see.

Miniman

10:21

@eimyr Your avatar has updated, incidentally.

eimyr

yaaay

bask in my tentacly glory

Fibericon

10:33

Oh yay. So, my new GM is complaining to me (since he's never GM'd before but I have) that people are asking when the game will start but they haven't given him characters yet. I told him to just say directly that the game will start once he has everyone's character. I've never been a huge fan of making characters at the table myself. It's easier for me to make mine alone, and I feel like it's a wasted session when I sit around waiting for other people to think of something.

eimyr

@Fibericon oh, the eternal struggle

players can't make characters because they don't know what the game is going to be about, GM can't prepare a campaign because there are no characters

Fibericon

We did get a world synopsis. I was able to make a character, get it reviewed by the GM, and make a backup in case it died. I think I'm with the GM on this one.

trogdor

11:18

@eimyr nice :)

Anaphory

11:35

@nitsua60 Fiddled with things until about 5am my time :(

At least I have an explanatory sentence with IPA transcription in most of those languages now!

@eimyr I found that the uconvtool can automatize polish-orthography-to-IPA transcription

Yay for polish having a nice orthography!

eimyr

Yeah, that's a thing. For a given ortography there's only one pronunciation, but the process is not reversible.

nitsua60

16:29

@SevenSidedDie what is that DWgazetteer you link to in a few answers? It says "based on the work of..." but it sure looks like "a copy of the work of...." Is it something official? It sure is handy, but I don't really want to rely on it if it's "unofficial" and might just introduce new problems (like my accidental use of DWhack starting sheets rather than "official" DW ones).

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 It's 3rd-party, but based on the official open-source text at the Dungeon World GitHub account. "Based on" in the sense that all the formatting is missing from the official source, so it takes some transformation to make it fit for the web. I'm 99% confident it's unchanged content-wise.

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie GitHub... oh, wow. [pokes around]

SevenSidedDie

I also prefer it to the "SRD" (despite the awkward navigation) because it has more faithful formatting (a formatting error in the "SRD" actually caused a question here, IIRC), and because I'm personally offended by the misuse of the technical/legal term "SRD" for a game that has no SRD because it's not OGL and is actually released in full instead of a partial "Reference Document". ;)

Yeah, Sage is super into information freedom.

(I'm on my phone, with all the terribleness of the chat UI on phones, or I'd dig up links.)

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie Who/what is Sage?

@SevenSidedDie (no worries)

SevenSidedDie

Author #1 of DW. Sage LaTorra and Adam Kobel.

nitsua60

16:40

(I can't even *find* chat on my phone. Just mainsite questions.)
(And I'm not fishing for a tutorial--I don't *really care. I mostly just use it to browse HNQ while otherwise occupied.)

@SevenSidedDie Gotcha--thanks.

SevenSidedDie

(It's a pain to get to, unless you get a ping showing up in your main site inbox. :D )

nitsua60

[zing!]

=D

BESW

22:47

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[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[vote ENnies!](http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/the-2016-voting-booth-is-now-live/ "The 2016 Voting Booth is Now Live!! -July 21-");
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Miniman

23:07

@nitsua60 The easiest way is just to bookmark chat directly.

Shalvenay

23:24

hey there @Emrakul

BESW

OMG.

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user61230

23:40

@Shalvenay Hey there!

Shalvenay

@Emrakul how're things going?

user61230

They're going alright! How're you doing?

Shalvenay

@Emrakul alright here -- hoping to start up a Traveller game with nitsua this weekend

user61230

Huh! What's Traveller?

Shalvenay

@Emrakul old-school spaceship/scifi TTRPG

going to give it a whirl as it represents a genre I haven't dealt with in TTRPG form, but have a fair bit of liking for

user61230

23:44

Oh, cool! What's the system for it like?

user61230

Leaning toward gritty mechanics, or more freeform?

BESW

It's got a reputation for supporting hard SF, and has been published under several different engines including GURPS and d20.

Shalvenay

@Emrakul the original engine is definitely more towards the former

(Classic Traveller characters don't always make it out of char creation in one piece)

user61230

Oh man, it's one of those kinds of systems.

user61230

Sounds like it could be a fun game, though, honestly!

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