TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:00

@nitsua60 [wave]

I'm not quite so present these days during your peak hours as I usually am, but I sitll want to be able to answer your practical questions.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Miniman

03:13

Well that's a little weird - an edit made over a week ago just came up in the Reopen queue.

BESW

@Miniman Edit 2: Review Queue Boogaloo.

doppelgreener

04:11

@Miniman The question has "reopen (1)" on it, so that reopen vote probably tossed it into the queue

I'm confused on how to act on that review myself. On one hand, the questions we asked them in comments have been answered relatively thoroughly. On the other hand, it's like someone picked up Fate and said "this game's pretty cool, I think it's perfect for what I want. Only I don't really like fate points, or aspects, and these skills are pretty lame, and stunts aren't great either."

[decides]

Miniman

04:27

@doppelgreener I thought about that, but it definitely showed the edit as the reason for review, not the "nominated for reopening" message that you normally get when someone kicks it off with a vote.

@doppelgreener Also, I voted to stay closed - it's clear what he's asking, but I think "How can I make this system behave completely differently to normal?" is still a very broad question.

doppelgreener

@Miniman mm, if it gets reopened it might wind up closed again for that reason

BESW

I disagree.

Miniman

@BESW Oh?

BESW

He's pretty clear, I think, about what effect he wants.

He explains what he's dissatisfied with, and what he wants to see.

Miniman

Absolutely - I said that just above.

It's clear, just that the kind of effect he's talking about is going to involve large, wide-ranging changes to the system.

BESW

04:39

So, given the specificity of the question, the only way I can see it being too broad is that it'd take a small book to answer.

Miniman

Maybe not a small book, but it seems to me that an essay is likely.

doppelgreener

that's not a close reason though

we do have essays

too broad is "too long for this format" which literally means "the answer won't fit in our answer field"

trogdor

@doppelgreener so what, all they actually like is the idea of collaboration? because I don't see anything else that is left after that XD

doppelgreener

@trogdor idk man

Miniman

@trogdor There was something about the setting...

trogdor

04:42

@Miniman which Fate setting was it?

Miniman

@trogdor Oh, I meant the actual question.

BESW

It's not a Fate question; that was an example of what the question's like.

"The whole point of the Too Broad close reason is to cut through the noise... Questions that are so broad as to require a large block to text to answer it tend to limit the help that can be given."

trogdor

@BESW oooooh ok

I was really confused at first when you said that XD

BESW

I don't see this question making noise in that sense: it needs a lot of text to address a very specific problem, while "too broad" is for cases where you need a lot of text to address a very unfocused problem.

Miniman

@BESW I can see your point, and I don't disagree with it - I'm having trouble articulating the exact problem I see with the question.

BESW

04:46

Oh, I think it's best answered with a frame challenge. It's not a great question.

But I don't think it's too broad, and I'm not sure it's got any other reason to close it either. It's just weird.

Miniman

@BESW Off-topic because game-recommendation in heavy disguise?

BESW

...That way lies madness.

Miniman

I know, that was tongue-in-cheek.

BESW

I'm sure a ton of folks have experience with aggressive *World hacks to accomplish things the Apocalypse Engine was never intended to do.

I say let's see if any of that experience can be brought to bear on the situation.

@Miniman I suspect the best answer would be a game-rec answer. Which is still totally legit, we just can't ask game-rec questions. It'd show why hacking *World to fit the querent's needs is formidable to the point of self-flagellation, and then point to a couple of other systems that do it better out of the box.

doppelgreener

@BESW (savage worlds, not an apocalypse world game)

(this is confusing to me too)

BESW

04:59

Sorry, I get them mixed up every other time.

Magician

Oh, hey, people who play Fate are here, what a pleasant surprise. I've redesigned the Brainstorm mechanic, and was hoping you could offer your thoughts.

BESW

4d

Dice Service

•

BESW

I have +2 on my roll to create an advantage with Opinions, so I can't add a thought to the brainstorm this round.

Magician

Prognosis: doubtful?

So, first. What was wrong with the original? It was (IMO) too structured, interrupting the natural flow of the scene. It was strangely antagonistic, with PCs fighting each other to be right. It front-loaded the reward in the form of a weirdly applied self-compel, then used up 3 successful CA actions to give you one meager invocation on the resulting aspect. My players said it almost felt like punishment.

Some of this can be alleviated by having something other than the brainstorm happening at the same time, with PCs choosing what to contribute to each turn, but that doesn't always work out.

BESW

05:11

I do agree that the antagonism hasn't thrilled me.

Magician

Anyways, Brainstorm 2.0: a mystery is encountered and brainstorm is initiated as before. There are 3 facts to establish, with typical difficulties of +3, +5, and +7. The facts are aspects that can be invoked only on establishing further facts. If the party manages to get all three checks in one round, good for them. Once all three facts are there, together determine how it all fits together, resulting in a solved mystery aspect with 3 invokes.

Each round after the first, one of the PCs has to invoke their own aspect to give the group permission to keep pondering the mystery. A different angle they bring into it.

Possibly even the first, not sure.

BESW

One thing I've been after is a way to stretch brainstorms out over multiple scenes/sessions, to turn it into a full mystery investigation mechanic.

Like, requiring whole scenes or sessions to position the PCs to be able to make the next check.

Magician

This isn't that. And I'm a bit wary of session-wide mechanical structures, those tend to be clunky.

BESW

No argument there. It's probably a pipe dream.

Another angle to take on brainstorming I've been thinking about lately is the Danger Patrol Pocket Edition's section on danger.

> Then tell the other players what’s dangerous about your move and grab 1 or 2 danger dice (d6). Is there more danger? Each player can tell you another dangerous thing and give you an additional danger die (up to a total of 5 danger dice). Now roll all your dice to see how it turns out!

It's a straight-up invitation to each player to add something to the scene.

Magician

What's the incentive to add dice?

BESW

05:19

You need at least six successes (4 or better) on a single roll to defeat a threat.

Rolling 3 or under adds danger going forward, but doesn't keep you from stopping the current threat.

doppelgreener

@BESW @Magician The antagonism has lead to people "ceding" to each other, as well. "Okay, sure, we both rolled about equal, we can pump in a lot of fate points, I have something I really want to say but I guess I'll let you have it."

BESW

I prefer the Mission Briefing mechanic; it's more like DP:PE's danger dice.

doppelgreener

@Magician [catching up] Invoking for effect, I see.

BESW

Both of them are adding to an established scenario, not inventing a new thing, but I like to think their philosophy can be brought to bear on brainstorming.

doppelgreener

@BESW Honestly I think this is just "playing out a mystery story, with a focus on discovering things." You don't need a particular structure like brainstorms to tell you "okay, I think with these clues I'd like to create an advantage" and now you have the next stage of the mystery.

@BESW I just realised that if you nearly defeat a threat and leave 5 dice around for the next person to use... they have 5 dice which might result in 2-3 danger. :D

Magician

05:26

@BESW Mission Briefing?

trogdor

@BESW it is a pretty nice mechanic to enforce some PC ideas being added into sessions, among some other things

BESW

Apr 14 at 10:22, by BESW

The atomic-robo RPG's expansion Majestic 12 has a Mission Briefing mechanic released as part of the ARRPG OGL.

> Mission briefings, like brainstorms, give players a concrete way to collectively steer the narrative. However, instead of answering the question “What’s going on here?”, a mission briefing asks the players “What stands between you and your objective?”
During a mission briefing, the players take turns inventing expected obstacles and resistance they expect their characters to face in the course of achieving their goal. They also indirectly tell the GM what sorts of things they’d like to do during the mission by choosing what skills will be especially relevant. This also generates a supply …

(It will be added to fate-srd.com as soon as the site's curator has time in his life again.)

lisardggY

Good morning.

BESW

We've only done mission briefings once or twice, but I really liked it as a GM.

@lisardggY Yawp.

trogdor

@lisardggY good morning to you good sir

lisardggY

05:34

Hello, Guamamites.

Magician

@lisardggY Ah, Guamamites. Eternal enemies of Vegemites.

BESW

Both of which are orthogonal to Mennonites.

lisardggY

@Magician Everyone still remembers the dreaded Yeast Wars of the South Pacific.

doppelgreener

@lisardggY The pacific ocean is still 33% fermented

it'll take years to sober up those fish

Miniman

@lisardggY Why not Guamites?

Magician

05:38

Guamates.

lisardggY

@Miniman More fun that way.

Reduplication

Reduplication in linguistics is a morphological process in which the root or stem of a word (or part of it) or even the whole word is repeated exactly or with a slight change. Reduplication is used in inflections to convey a grammatical function, such as plurality, intensification, etc., and in lexical derivation to create new words. It is often used when a speaker adopts a tone more "expressive" or figurative than ordinary speech and is also often, but not exclusively, iconic in meaning. Reduplication is found in a wide range of languages and language groups, though its level of linguistic...

Miniman

TIL that there's an official grammatical term for the construction "Curiouser and curiouser."

lisardggY

@Miniman What is it?

Miniman

@lisardggY "Comparative reduplication."

About two-fifths of the way down the page.

lisardggY

Oh, I skipped to the Hebrew and the Australopacific languages.

Hmm. Shm-reduplication is enough of a thing to warrant its own page.

Miniman

05:44

@lisardggY Own page, shmown page.

It's not like Wiki is exactly fussy about the thingness of articles.

lisardggY

English-language wikipedia, anyway.

Hebrew wikipedia is a whole 'nother barrel of fish.

Magician

Um. So. @BESW @doppelgreener any obvious issues with my brainstorm rework?

trogdor

@Magician lol

doppelgreener

06:08

The invokes on our facts have a clear role, which is good. Our brainstorm results in three free invocations which is frankly fantastic - our investigation has some guaranteed lasting advantage and relevance for us beyond "we know what the thing was".

"If the party manages to get all three checks in one round, good for them" makes it sound like three different players can just branch out and each create one fact (one for the difficulty 3 fact, one for difficulty 5, one for difficulty 7). That makes sense to me. It sounds like if there's five players, there might still be competition over on…

Magician

"Once all three facts are there, together determine how it all fits together, resulting in a solved mystery aspect with 3 invokes."

I like the free-form approach of the party simply talking it out, as that's what had ended up happening anyway when we brainstormed.

doppelgreener

I've noticed one problematic effect of brainstorms that comes up from time to time: players buying in who aren't sure how to actually contribute. It's possible to have a scene where things are going on other than the brainstorm: we had a fight where Jessie Farman was distracting some spider-bots, while the rest of the team self-compelled themselves into a brainstorm about what was going on, and notably, self-compelled themselves out of the fight. They couldn't help Jessie for four rounds.

However...

It's easy to have a scene where there's nothing to do except brainstorm. So, naturally, everyone buys into it. But one or two players - sometimes myself - can't imagine how we can really justify contributing.

I often come up with something though if I'm forced by a good die roll, so maybe that's just OK?

@Magician Okay, cool. So we talk and share our theories about what it is, then decide on something together?

Magician

Yeah

And in a group of 5 people, someone wouldn't have an idea on how to contribute and someone will fail the roll and we'll still get our facts established. If the rolls are good, we could get them on the first 3 actions, in which case, jolly good job, moving on to the next scene.

Not that different from a Challenge.

doppelgreener

@Magician Yeah, sounds great. One person's fine with sitting out because the whole thing could be over in a minute, and they could actually still contribute to creating the hypothesis. "Hold on a minute, this all sounds an awful lot like this thing I once read about in a botany book!"

Magician

Not sure if buying into this brainstorm is needed at all - it's mostly there so you can choose to fail - a notable feature of the original rules.

doppelgreener

06:17

I'd be okay with that too. I figured the self-compel was largely just an excuse for giving the players fate points to spend in the brainstorm, but I won't miss it.

I'd still do away with "someone has to invoke something to justify continuing" though.

Oh, wait. Unless that invoke can come from free invokes on facts?

Magician

Hmmmm. Maybe? I dunno, I liked the idea of tying the PCs' specialties to the scene.

doppelgreener

Okay, something to playtest and ask about.

Magician

But yeah, it's a clunky extra bit to remember, distracting from what the scene is actually about and forcing players to think about fate point economy and whether they want to spend to get the check now, or spend to have a whole round later. Out it goes, I think.

doppelgreener

I'm not sure how I'd go with the notion that someone has to pay up a fate point so everyone can continue. Diffusion of responsibility might also mean everyone thinks everyone else should be the one to pay. Sounds... counter-productive to getting their heads in the game and working together as a group having fun together, and a potential for upset? ("I'm always paying the extra fate points just 'cause I'm a science guy, someone else do it.")

But that could just be me worrying about it and it could turn out to be fine in practice.

Magician

@doppelgreener I think it'd work fine in our group, but that's a good point in general.

doppelgreener

06:22

@Magician Have someone just say why they're still able to ponder and investigate, if it's important to have that. :)

Magician

Unlike a Challenge, investigation and thinking is not usually fraught with peril, so failure on a roll or three doesn't normally result in disaster/move things forward. Absent an external pressure, there's nothing stopping the party from slowly and methodically rolling their way through this brainstorm. A cost to each round solves that.

Something to try either way.

doppelgreener

@Magician If you want to introduce a cost to taking multiple turns to solve the mechanic, people are going to try and slam-dunk it in the first round, and they won't be able to use their free invokes on their facts on anything because there won't be later rounds to use them on. :P

I'd alternately suggest that a complication gets introduced by unsolved facts, but that would also add pressure to solve everything immediately.

This could be fine if that's the desired gameplay result.

Magician

Well, I think it makes sense to try and solve things rather than muling about.

doppelgreener

Sure, yes.

Give players a maximum of 2 or 3 rounds to solve the thing in that case. If you go for 2 rounds, difficulties of 3/5/7 are good - people will try to knock down the 3 and the 5 quickly, and team up on the second round and use their previously-established facts' free invocations for the 7.

BESW

I think this whole thing is overcomplicated, but there's bits I'm struggling to simplify.

I'm getting nebulous notions that aren't quite word-ready yet, much less formed into coherent structures.

Aether

06:37

Maybe require a fact needs to have been established that round to continue to the next? Otherwise, the team has sat around too long without progress and has hit a wall (narratively and figuratively)?

BESW

Okay, so what I've got are some questions about structure, form, and goals.

Aether

(Which essentially leads to @doppelgreener's solution in practice...)

BESW

(1) Is it okay to finish a brainstorm without an answer to the question which triggered it?

(2) Does everyone in the group need to participate?

(3) Should the conclusion be determined by a single person?

(3) Is participation reward enough, or is a mechanical benefit for success necessary?

(5) Is brainstorming interesting enough to stand on its own?

(6) What happened to four?

trogdor

lol

BESW

(7) What kind of question does brainstorming answer, and how specific/limited/broad can/should it be?

doppelgreener

06:42

Something that occurred to me is that the final hypothesis roll, once settled, says "everyone shut up and listen to this player. They have the right and privilege of saying what's going on."

*Without* a hypothesis roll, well... game groups tend to have louder people and quieter people, and they sometimes have people who will let others walk all over them, and they sometimes have people who are happy to walk all over others to get what they want. The hypothesis roll is an equalizer: "NAY!" it says. "NONE OF YE SHALL BE THE ONES TO SPEAKE, EXCEPTETH IF THOU ART THE ONE WHO SUCCEEDS ON THE HY…

BESW

(8) What role should randomisation have?

(8b) Is there anything about brainstorms that obviously shouldn't have randomisation?

Magician

Damn. Looks like I've started a good discussion, but have to run. Apologies. Will read (much) later tonight.

doppelgreener

In our game group, it's quite probable Ben and Raycia would loudly discuss the hypothesis, you @BESW would sit back out of concern you don't want to domineer the game, you @trogdor would be quietly processing things and might not find your chance to speak up before the group's apparently decided on something, Dan might be too shy to say anything at all or say anything like "hold on I have an idea", I would be struggling to be heard over Ben and Raycia. :P

The hypothesis roll at that point is pretty helpful.

It also says who gets to win when two theories are in conflict and the group can't decide for various reasons.

trogdor

@doppelgreener yeah, they are great to have in the group with all of their energy, but that can also be an issue XD

BESW

I've got notions toward a different structure for brainstorming, but I want to see discussion about these questions while it percolates.

doppelgreener

06:46

@BESW An alternate resolution mechanic stemming from this is the Hypothesis roll happens, one person says what the Hypothesis is, then each player can insert an additional tidbit (an "and" or "but") if they can think of something interesting that relates to what's already known.

BESW

@doppelgreener I'm working on something combining Danger Patrol and Mission Briefing.

But with an added anti-goblin-dice twist.

doppelgreener

@BESW I will look forward to seeing the draft once you're comfortable sharing it.

@BESW Four is a doppelganger!

But which one's the real three..?

Eidolon108

Working on a DnD 5e homebrew class, anyone feel like helping me if I spinball a bit? Need someone to keep me from making it too powerful

Miniman

@Eidolon108 I'd enjoy that!

Eidolon108

@Miniman Here's what i've got so far. It's supposed to be a half-caster class that gets spellcasting kind of like a warlock, as well as some invocation-like thingies flavored as runes. Haven't done the rune-invocations yet, just fleshing out the archetypes. PDF incoming

bah, looks like it got JPG'd

let me upload it elsewhere

doppelgreener

06:56

yeah it's unintelligible :'(

Eidolon108

Here's a dropbox link

dropbox.com/s/08u4ui4c3tlbt1g/…

Also haven't done the spell list, but would appreciate any advice on what spells to put on it / limit from it. Would definitely want things like magic weapon / elemental weapon and any glyph spells, but spells like Fireball or Burning Hands might be kinda questionable.

doppelgreener

@Eidolon108 Re: Rune Weapon, in past editions, class features that are bound completely to one individual specific weapon have been generally regarded as so problematic as to be garbage. This is a class where that's a primary feature. You have a section on transferring the runes, which is good, but the ability to do that is so fundamental that I would make it just be a thing you can do (like a wizard changing their spells) and it is not at the GM's option.

Your section also talks about "transferring the runes" - I suggest you might instead want to say something like "bestow runes upon a new weapon", which neatly accounts for the scenario where the old weapon has been destroyed or lost (plot/GM said so, or it was stolen and they can't get it back now, etc) and the runeseeker hero of the story finds a new one to make his own.

Eidolon108

That makes sense. I wasn't anticipating destroying the weapon since I'll be DMing for the player i'm designing this for, but on principle that's definitely a good point.

Miniman

So, a few thoughts: Having both Cantrips and Extra Attack is a fairly rare combination in 5e. I don't think it's dangerous or overpowered in any way, but it is pretty unusual.

doppelgreener

Yeah. If this is something you distribute, something to bear in mind.

Given the issues connected to being tied to weapons I'd even consider just loosening up and saying: "After a long rest, you can bestow a weapon with runes. They fade off the old weapon, if it still exists." Okay, now you've got a guy who can use a sword as his Rune Weapon today, and a Mace tomorrow if it's needed then, and then switch back to the sword later; the sword didn't crumble after all 'cause that isn't a thing. (@Miniman what do you think of this? You're more 5e-savvy than me.)

Miniman

07:09

Giving a spellcaster proficiency in Constitution saving throws makes them much less likely to lose concentration - not overpowered, but definitely powerful.

@doppelgreener There's very few situations where switching your weapon is a useful thing to do, so I'm not too fussed either way.

Like, if you know you're going to be fighting a bunch of skeletons, then yeah, it's nice to be using a bludgeoning weapon.

But that's the only example I can think of.

Eidolon108

@Miniman Ah, I hadn't even considered the Con saving throw for concentration, very good

Miniman

@Eidolon108 The Sorcerer is the only spellcaster who gets it atm, (I'm not counting the Eldritch Knight), and I know a few people consider it one of the Sorcerer's main features. Just something to be aware of.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Cool, okay. Up to a matter of what kind of feel you want to give the class then.

Miniman

@Eidolon108 Ok, so. Finished reading, and the thing is. This class has a lot of features. Like, a lot.

There's no individual feature I'd point to and say is too powerful.

But it gets all these things, it's going to get some version of warlock invocations, and it's also going to get spellcasting?

Eidolon108

@Miniman Yeah, I can hear that. I'm a little worried about it being bloated as well. The original homebrew my buddy sent me was even worse, but I liked the idea. What do you think should give?

BESW

07:24

@doppelgreener I've got a really rough draft for an alternate structure. I'm not sure if I like all of it, but it's definitely... different.

Fate chat and game room

Good questions raised here should hit the main site too! Fudge...

Miniman

@Eidolon108 I'm not sure. I'd definitely go through it side by side with the Paladin - I think that's the most similar class, and the Paladin is in a pretty good place balance-wise.

Oh yeah, one other thing you might want to consider is what it means for your weapon to have blindsight while you don't.

Eidolon108

@Miniman I think I'm going to keep cramming features in until I'm done, and then do that and eliminate them or boil them down. I might just completely remove spellcasting in favor of invocations, would have to change some things like the elemental burst

@Miniman Yeah, since the weapon can only communicate with emotions at first it's less useful, but once it has telepathy it's basically like having blindsight

Miniman

@Eidolon108 Do you still have disadvantage when attacking an invisible target? I'd assume yes, but you'll need to have an answer ready when it comes up.

Eidolon108

@Miniman Oooh, good point

Miniman

@Eidolon108 I'd definitely be inclined towards scrapping spellcasting - it's not nearly as thematic as customised features. I'd also be inclined to convert some of the existing features into invocations.

Eidolon108

07:49

@Miniman Thanks to you and @doppelgreener for the feedback, I'll probably be back on friday or saturday with some revisions.

Miniman

@Eidolon108 Sounds good! I'm generally around.

doppelgreener

@Miniman Will point out, just in case - an alternative is "at 7th level, you gain blindsight while holding your rune weapon." Either flavour works, but this one might be more straightforward for players.

Miniman

@doppelgreener More straightforward, but also more powerful.

doppelgreener

@Miniman fair point, though I imagine it playing out more or less identically at the table.

Oh, wait, ability to use blindsight with targeting.

Fibericon

09:40

I found the GM's notes from the practice FATE game we played to get a feel for the mechanics.

1. Frozen north with barbarians
2. Evil people doing lab experiments
3. John Cena
4. Law Enforcement

BESW

...your GM had notes? [grin]

Fibericon

These were the game elements that we introduced while creating characters, I think.

BESW

Ah, that's excellent.

Fibericon

But yeah, it does seem like these games make the GM come up with a lot on the fly.

BESW

The first time we tried Fate, I said, "Fill in the blanks: one of you is a Gunslinging ____ and the other is a Martial _____."

We wound up with a Gunslinging clown and a Martial mime being ambushed by a mafia hit man in a roadside bar.

2

The clown used squirt guns to ruin the hit man's well-tailored suit.

eimyr

10:06

@BESW Hello

BESW

[wave]

@eimyr Wot snu?

eimyr

Not much, what's updog?

BESW

trogdor

lol

eimyr

BESW

10:14

"Updog" is a commonly documented but poorly understood canid gravitic anomaly.

eimyr

Should that be part of your Weird World game?

BESW

Maaybe.

eimyr

I lost a book title.

I'm very unhappy about it.

BESW

Oh dear. Where did you see it last?

Did you check under the couch?

eimyr

It's just the title.

I was planning to buy this book and never did and now I can't remember the title - or Author for that matter.

BESW

10:19

Well, where did you learn about the book? What do you remember about it?

eimyr

I had it written down, but that is definitely not under the couch

HM...

It's a history book, strictly non-fiction, about courts in Medieval Europe.

The author is alive and published more than this one book, read by reenactor community eagerly.

The author has a Wikipedia page, but the book does not seem to.

BESW

[pokes Internet]

Recently published?

> "Nobles, Knights, and Men-At-Arms in the Middle Ages."
Maurice Hugh Keen. 1996, Hambledon Pr; ISBN 1852850876. 14 essays originally published between 1962 and 1993 covering ideas of chivalry and warfare and the relationship between them, including brotherhood-in-arms, courtly love, crusades, heraldry, knighthood, tournaments, and plunder.

lisardggY

@eimyr We're talking royalty-court, not legal system-court, right?

eimyr

@lisardggY correct.

BESW

> "The History of Chivalry & Armor With Descriptions of The Feudal System, The Practices of Knighthood, The Tournament & Trials By Single Combat"
Kottenkamp, Dr. F. trans: Lowy, the Rev A.. Portland House NY 1988. ISBN 0-517-67107-7. Over 174 pgs, 60 color plates, 4 foldouts. Despite the promising title this work presents only a compilation of colorful period prints from jousting and heraldry.

eimyr

10:26

Oh, there is another bit - the book is written in English and the author (I think) is a Brit.

BESW

The list I've got right now is a bit heavy on the "arms & armour" so I'll move on in a moment.

eimyr

Yeah, that was definitely not a warfare kind of book

BESW

> The Princely Court: Medieval Courts and Culture in North-West Europe, 1270-1380
by Malcolm Vale

This tag might have it.

Or this list.

That's all I can give right now.

eimyr

Alright, thank you very much!

BESW

My search keywords included: ~medieval court ~reenact resource reference bibliography

Mostly I was angling for lists of recommended reading.

(Not trying to get the book itself in a search result)

eimyr

10:42

Anyway, these lists have some very good resources

and The Princely Court looks like a good substitute, save for its £70 price tag

BESW

And if you get a little time, I'd like input on the mechanic I've drafted in the Fate room.

eimyr

@BESW DO you havea direct link?

BESW

I'll repost.

Fate chat and game room

Good questions raised here should hit the main site too! Fudge...

(Input from others is, of course, also welcome.)

Aaron

12:31

Long time no see

doppelgreener

Hi!

Aaron

How has everyone been?

doppelgreener

i been sleepy as of a few minutes ago, and should go tend to that!

but i've been alright.

Aaron

Same here.

I stayed up a bit too late last night so I'm sleepy myself

eimyr

13:33

Why are Nazi Zombies such a compelling idea?

BESW

Because they have so many trouble aspects.

Miniman

@eimyr Are they?

Aaron

Hello

eimyr

@Miniman Are they not?

Miniman

@eimyr I mean, I don't find them particularly compelling. There's some game developers who do, obviously.

BESW

13:36

Nazis and zombies are two of the contemporary age's remaining "acceptable targets."

If you're looking for guiltless violence, they're common go-tos.

There are also various social patterns which make them apt reflections of the societal subconscious--a rise of authoritarian nationalism, of polarising mob mentality, of fears of physical and ideological infection, etc.

And speculative fiction is most successful when it reflects unspoken fears and passions of the society which consumes it.

eimyr

@BESW Did you just say that being bitten by a Nazi Zombie might turn you into a zombie or a Nazi?

That's golden plot point. Authoritarian nationalism as a bite-transmitted disease like zombie-ism, but instead of becoming a mindless non-human you start to see others as such.

BESW

Have you seen BrainDead?

eimyr

nope

Just Dead Snow

BESW

It's a new TV show about alien parasites that take over politicians' brains and turn them into radical partisan bigots.

eimyr

I just read the description.

Must-watch.

BESW

13:44

It's kinda... on the nose.

eimyr

Also, it has MAry Elizabeth Winstead AND Tony Shalhoub.

Miniman

@BESW Do they have an uncanny resemblance to the world's worst toupee?

BESW

@Miniman Not quite that on the nose.

Miniman

@BESW Well, you can't have everything.

BESW

It's set in contemporary 2016, though, so the actual US presidential candidates get name-checked regularly.

Really though, in modern narrative application both zombism and Nazism are shorthand for "infectious inhumanity." That makes it ripe for all kinds of use and abuse.

(See: The recent "Hail Hydra" kerfuffle.)

eimyr

13:54

@BESW (I think I need to invent a punctuation mark for whenever I ask a serious question expecting insight to differentiate from times when the question is rhetoric and aimed at generating some amusement)

BESW

(¿)

eimyr

I'm thinking of Zalgo.

@Golokopitenko youtube.com/watch?v=csSefjNCXn0

Francisco

14:16

So how goes?

eimyr

Heyyyy

a fellow WoD fan

Francisco

Yea, my first RPG :)

eimyr

My 2nd

anywayyyy

Francisco

I mean technically it's my second. I had a one time encounter with D&D at the same High School RPG club.

eimyr

Cool.

Have you tried Mage: the Ascention? puts on the campaigning hat

Francisco

14:22

But it was terrible and lasted one session. Basically the DM had all the new players create a character, keeping in mind this was Pathfinder so it took most of the three hours we had. Then he had all the new players "wake up in a room with a sign that said, only one may leave". I rolled lowest on initiative, then the guy next to me. Says he attacks me and rolls high. One shots me. I die, that was my experience. The next week the guy who ran WoD scoped me out because the D&D section was huge.

Also no never played Mage, just Vanilla, Masquerade (variation), and Werewolf. Although we had a bit of Changling in one of our games

eimyr

Oh, you said "vanilla". That mean, you're thinking of the nwod, currently called cwod, is that right?

Francisco

Yea it was New WoD.

The Masquerade we played was a mixture of NWoD and old Masquerade rules. Since some stuff was a bit imbalanced in Masquerade lol.

eimyr

"some" stuff

you're right

I've never played the nwod ones - I like the rules, but not the setting, and one doesn't support each other very well if hacking the two together

Francisco

I think the guys more took the story from old wod and merged some rules from nwod which was more balanced.

eimyr

14:43

@Francisco I'm running Mage Ascension now

I have 5 experienced players and some adjusting to do, but I find it very enjoyable

Francisco

15:19

@eimyr That's great! Never got much into Mage really. We had a brief encounter with it during one of our stories. But he was there for just a session. And it ended up being a bit of a clown fiesta that story.

Didnt like the GM at the time really. He just catered the story to people he liked in the group. I wasn't exactly one of those people

Joshua Aslan Smith

20:16

@waxeagle game tonight?

wax eagle

20:34

@JoshuaAslanSmith sorry forgot to get back to Gruber,no game this week, have to work. Cc @Grubermensch @Shalvenay

Joshua Aslan Smith

danke I will in form @kmallory

BESW

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[playtest Follow](http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/788/follow-needs-playtesters/ "Help playtest Ben Robbins' new game!");
[UScons](http://casualgamerevolution.com/blog/2016/01/2016-tabletop-gaming-conventions-a-comprehensive-list "List of RPG conventions in the US.");

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw lol that charmed image

on the 5e condition cards

BESW

I'm going to assume they couldn't get the rights to Uhura doing a fan dance.

Tophandour

@BESW tablecloth link 404'd

BESW

20:48

**[Timely RPGery](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nKltjD1HJ954pS3QZZL-E_ckNaKEeedxMKn7XwdFiio/edit?usp=sharing "Click for full source doc; please suggest items to pin!"):**
[BoH](https://bundleofholding.com "Buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[playtest Follow](http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/788/follow-needs-playtesters/ "Help playtest Ben Robbins' new game!");
[UScons](http://casualgamerevolution.com/blog/2016/01/2016-tabletop-gaming-conventions-a-comprehensive-list "List of RPG conventions in the US.");

@Tophandour Thanks for the catch.

Tophandour

No problem

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith I like the Petrified jazz hands, myself.

Joshua Aslan Smith

its pretty good

I just thought mermaid on the rocks so classic and enjoyed the strategic placement of pearl necklaces and hair strands

BESW

....also, my brain is now insisting that Aretha Franklin's I Will Survive can be done entirely in D&D conditions.

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol

I now have the orchestral breakdown from that stuck in my head, not bad though

BESW

21:01

> [frightened] At first I was afraid
[petrified] I was petrified
[charmed] [incapacitated] Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side
[prone] [unconscious] But then I spent so many nights thinking how you did me wrong
[advantage] And I grew strong and I learned how to get along

....Huh. I don't know why my brain went for Aretha Franklin instead of Gloria Gaynor. [shrug]

nitsua60

23:14

Just logged in after a few days traveling for work, and right away got to post my first "native" MathJax answer!

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

BESW

@nitsua60 Grats!

nitsua60

@mınxomaτ that would be interesting to take a look at, then... hmm.

@BESW thanks

I've been away long enough that I got an automated e-mail from SE with my inbox messages... I didn't know that was a thing!

Shalvenay

so, how're things going?

BESW

23:23

Oh, yeah, you can set it for given intervals like daily/weekly/monthly.

Wait, no.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay minor explosions both at work and at home, but all manageable. No rest for the weary, though.

@BESW Every 3 hours!?

BESW

@nitsua60 Miner explosions!

nitsua60

@BESW that woodcut-artist sure works fast...

BESW

23:48

@nitsua60 I think he had incentive to work quickly.

nitsua60

@BESW I also assume he wasn't getting paid much--it was only a miner piece =\

BESW

[groan]

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