TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

00:34

"The idea that honesty and tact are mutually exclusive is a toxic false dichotomy which a lot of the Internet hides behind. Let's not be those guys." -BESW, 10/2014

trogdor

lol

I can see how it would be hard to combine the things sometimes, but certainly nowhere near them being mutually exclusive

and note the "sometimes" not even all the time

my point being mostly that combining honesty and tact might "gasp shock" require you to think a little about what you are saying first XD

that is mostly tact's fault

BESW

I also find that if we think "truth hurts," it's actually harder to speak truth when it's not harsh.

Shalvenay

@BESW that, and there is also a subculture of feigned offense that tries to squeeze out any room for combining honesty with tact

BESW

00:51

Mmm. Manufactured offence is very different from pretend offence, and I think more prevalent. Though they tend to be indistinguishable by casual observation, they have very different causes and effects.

doppelgreener

01:08

@BESW I find that comment is reference-ey, but it also gives the view of a religious dude who might actually be down to earth with his situation. You do bring up in that answer the idea that sometimes people have to be executed on the battlefield or have a hand cut off or be branded. It's a bit of a reality check for the kind of person who might insist on dragging a criminal back for attention from the criminal courts of the justice system.

It's like "yo! here's a dude who sticks up for his religion but isn't all preachy and perfect to the expense of the entire party and the vibe of the story! it's possible! be more like him!"

BESW

You're reading a lot into a line about deliberately mis-reading one's own holy scripture to justify something it's clearly not okay with.

D&D paladins don't need to resort to rules lawyering or legalistic literalism to be tolerable.

If Book's quote is an example of what you're talking about, it's a very bad one in the context of the question and more specifically of my answer to which it is appended.

(Specifically, Book's struggles regarding the company he kept were never about them; it was about whether he could remain strong in their company. I think his line about kneecaps is an example of why that's a legitimate concern for him, but The Paladin Problem is rooted in the assumption that consorting with folks who violate a paladin's code is equivalent to the paladin himself breaking it.)

doppelgreener

01:29

Sure, I agree it's very much not analogous. However it's a good reality check and resonates along similar enough vibes - even if they're coming from the entirely different direction.

BESW

[shrug] I've not added a comment contesting it, and my flag was declined as I knew it would be. I used it last night as an example of a comment I wish would go away but doesn't despite my flags, as a counter to the prevailing meta belief that even the most popular comments vanish like ninjas before anyone sees them.

Smurfton

That's not true though

I thought people who say that were joking

BESW

But if folks want to engage me on why I think it's irrelevant and shows a very poor understanding of either my answer or the story it's quoting from, I have Strong Opinions.

@Smurfton Joking about what? The over-zealous deletion of comments? It's been a regular complaint for some time.

Smurfton

yes, joking about comments vanishing like ninjas.

BESW

I think these folks are taking it seriously.

doppelgreener

01:41

@Smurfton it's serious. yesterday for example there was a comment conversation about a question, then it was mod-closed, all comments wiped, and the mod left a comment saying "yo this doesn't work in our format at all." not sure what the comments were. some people get that kind of thing and feel disgruntled by it.

others are having a lovely conversation in comments... which aren't for lovely conversations. or trying to argue. or providing a pseudo-answer. or so on. and then their comment gets deleted within hours, and they take umbrage at that.

BESW

My problem is, nobody who's taking it seriously in meta has yet weighted their protests with history and policy. It's all "This isn't nice" and "This is too much" without any treatment of why the Stack has these policies and what this Stack was like when they were less enforced.

doppelgreener

(That's not to say the only people complaining have been acting up somehow. There's also people who've left what they felt were worthwhile comments and they got cleaned up for one reason or another, and the affected user took umbrage for one reason or another.)

BESW

Any change going forward needs to be made in context of why things are the way they are.

3

nitsua60

Never truer words... ^^

@BESW Otherwise we're a ship without a keel, over-correcting as we bang into all the other boats on our way out the harbor.

BESW

01:56

We tend to forget that the [tour] says, right there at the start, "This site is all about getting answers. It's not a discussion forum. There's no chit-chat."

Defying Stack-wide policies designed to enforce that function is the sort of thing which needs major justification.

BESW

02:07

And now, a baby Appaloosa mini horse.

Adeptus

@BESW Don't let Hasbro see this, they'll start trying to breed brightly coloured ones

BESW

05:13

Time spent wheeling a wombat about in wheelbarrow is never wasted https://t.co/8jqV3mtDAt

Tweeted by marcuschown on March 9, 2016 at 10:11 PM

nitsua60

"Wheeling a Wombat About" would be a good name for an All the Lurkers album.

BESW

Somehow, that got Dement's Leaning on the Everlasting Arms stuck in my head.

Miniman

06:12

@BESW Nice answer on meta.

BESW

Thank you.

Miniman

I couldn't work out a way to answer that question that wasn't an out-and-out rejection, which would have been sad, because it's a sentiment worth supporting.

BESW

06:27

I just posted some common strategies for improving pre-made comments. If anybody's got stuff to add, please do!

The Oracle

10:46

0

Q: What is a Role-Playing Game*?

*In the context of what is on and off topic here. A recent meta question asked if role-playing in video games is on topic here. The question was focused on one held question on main, and the answers seamed focused on the question. But it got me thinking about the scope of the site, and I didn'...

eimyr

@BESW What do you do on Meta when you like someones answer, but you would like to add a certain point without competing with it?

BESW

On meta, answers don't have to be complete.

And comments are higher-order entities.

Whichever you think is appropriate.

eimyr

11:06

@BESW IS storium free to use/join?

BESW

@eimyr Yes, but with a paid subscription you get access to more features.

eimyr

Would it be necessary for participation in your linked poll stuff game thing?

BESW

> Free users are able to play in up to three games at a time, and can host as many games as they like, with a few minor limitations. (source)

No, free accounts are quite enough.

Also, hah! Someone found the secret bloop.

eimyr

I wouldn't be able to join the kickstarter world, aye?

BESW

I'm actually not clear on that; I was assuming that if I hosted it, free folks could join.

[pokes around]

eimyr

11:12

Did anyone submit the poll already?

BESW

I showed it to three friends to work out the kinks before I posted it here, so yes.

Can somebody with a free Storium account volunteer to be a guinea pig? I want to see if I can invite you to a Kickstarter world.

eimyr

I could be a guinea pig any time.

Unfortunately I don't have an account.

I'll ask if my guineas have any later today.

BESW

Thanks.

wax eagle

@BESW debating adding my own answer about developing edges organically

BESW

Please do!

wax eagle

11:26

someone asked a question about whether pro-wrestling was on topic on Sports.se, before any questions on the topic had been asked. It's much better to find scope edges when you have an example or two to work from.

trogdor

@BESW ah, seems my account not only still exists, I remembered my password somehow XD

BESW

Yey! Invite incoming.

Sent.

trogdor

ah found it

I was having the slightest problem just finding that little "you have been invited to something" message

it doesn't seem like it was designed entirely well in the "catch your attention" area

BESW

Can you accept the invite and see the pre-made characters?

trogdor

11:41

yeah

I think I already did?

uh,.. it's saying they can't be made yet?

does that mean I have not accepted properly yet?

or is it just that you have not finished the setting?

BESW

Hmm.

trogdor

cause the message I got says you invited ,me, and it links to letting me see the game

so I don't know if that means I already accepted? and I can't find anything to press that says "accept"

ah, I can see them now

BESW

It's probably something on my end, but I can't figure out what.

trogdor

I don't know if you did something or not

I don't know if maybe I have to choose one of them in order to accept

BESW

I gave it a title and chose a premise. See if you can pick a character now?

trogdor

11:48

mk

I can pick one

I guess I will just to see if that does anything

I assume you don't want us making our own?

BESW

This is just a test.

trogdor

mk

picked one

Polyducks

Hello folks :)

Just been over at Arqade... that place is a mess.

BESW

[wave]

I'd spend.... any time at all... at Arqade if their pinstripe background didn't synch with my monitor's refresh rate.

@trogdor Excellent! Thank you. I'll delete that game now.

trogdor

mk

XD

BESW

11:55

@eimyr Confirmed! So long as the host has The Deal, anyone can join a Kickstarter world.

Polyducks

12:07

haha that's unfortunate @BESW

Just silly rule conflicts

Hey, speaking of which

what's that game about making rules?

It was discussed some time last week

It's got a name like nolan or volan

or tula

BESW

Nomic.

Polyducks

NOMIC!

Thanks

It's like a game of Nomic over there

BESW

Yup.

eimyr

@BESW Cool.

Polyducks

@Eimyr praise Vectron

eimyr

12:30

@Polyducks Praisie Maisie

Polyducks

13:26

Each to his own

So the group and I are playing Void Hunters tonight

we've managed to fall into a situation where everyone is suggesting what to do next

and they'll even play their characters to fall or ruin which is great for narrative

eimyr

what's void hunters?

@Polyducks I love in Fate when my character fails utterly and horribly. I love it, because it thickens the plot and winning will be more exciting eventually.

BESW

I have players who are actively disappointed to succeed.

eimyr

I wonder... how, in Fate, can I set myself up to fail despite narratively giving my best effort?

BESW

Take compels.

Design your aspects to provide plenty of opportunities for compels, and then self-compel aggressively.

eimyr

OK, I can self- compel, but I can't make the GM spend Fate on aspects that would make me fail, right?

BESW

13:34

....no, though you could ask for it.

The "competency" part of the Fate PC triad can be treated as a dial.

In a Lovecraftian horror game, often "escaping with one's sanity intact" is a nigh-impossible victory condition.

eimyr

oh but I can be competent and fail

Polyducks

@Eimyr a super simple homebrew. Roll d sixes for skills. More skill points, more d sixes

eimyr

e.g. I am a master burglar, but I sneezed (self-compel white-nosed junkie) and was stressed by time constraint (scene aspect Approaching footsteps), but maybe the GM saves his Fate points which he could spend on Door unlike any other and Growling noises from inside

Polyducks

13:56

How do these traits work? Do you just make them up during play?

eimyr

Aspects?

Yeah.

They are succinct, pithy statements describing what/how things are, attached to those things.

You then can use a Fate Point (currency for player narrative agency) to "invoke" an aspect for a positive mechanical bonus or "compel" it, to increase opposition by the same mechanical value.

Polyducks

Cool! We should really continue that test play

eimyr

Note, that they have to be appropriate. You can't invoke Beautiful sunny morning to gain a bonus on Burglary check. Though you could probably compel it.

Yeah.

now, during character creation you make up a couple of these, these are your Character Aspects. They stay with you and define your character

take a look at Genesis, Cassandra and Brooklyn are the newest Fate characters from greener and troggy

Genesis

Creation! PCs, NPCs, worlds, etc. (This means more than just r...

There are also Scene Aspects (defining what happens around PCs) Game Aspects (describing what the game is about in broad terms) and some other ones, which depend on what Fate flavour you're playing.

Polyducks

14:59

how exciting!

wax eagle

@Shalvenay @Grubermensch @JoshuaAslanSmith @RobertF game tonight!

Masaka

15:13

I don't suppose anyone can recommend a good character generator for D&D 5E?

Polyducks

Sorry! 5E isn't really my system

If you wanted to know about 1/2E however, I'd be on that like a rash

Woops, forgot to ping ya, @Masaka. Have a ping and a sorry!

wax eagle

@Masaka I'm not aware of any other than the FG one

Masaka

15:54

FG?

wax eagle

fantasy Grounds, the only official licensee for digital tools

(should say current, there were indications when that was announced that the license was not exclusive)

eimyr

16:22

@Polyducks but 5e should be your system.

It's really going in the right direction, especially if you want a mechanically supported narrative with less mode-switching than in 2/3/4e

Wibbs

18:34

Every time someone uses RAI in an answer, a puppy dies

nitsua60

19:28

@Wibbs Every time someone uses RA? in an answer, I cringe a little.

Zachiel

20:37

@eimyr mode-switching?

Oh, hello @Trogdor!

trogdor

hi

Zachiel

How's life down there?

trogdor

it's going pretty well so far

Zachiel

I'm going to thread towards the new story arc in my 4e campaign. Our most enthusiast player would like everyone to change their characters (well, he's the Leader right now and he wants to play a striker, so somebody's pretty forced to).

trogdor

ah

Zachiel

20:41

He wants to play a rogue that can stay hidden for several turns each combat, I'm a little worried: is the game still fun for me as the DM?

trogdor

my group had some similar issues

until I moved to Leader myself and stayed put there

@Zachiel well, how much fighting can he actually do while hidden?

is he a sniper rogue?

Zachiel

@trogdor I don't know the exact build, buf it didn't deal a lot of damage or was somehow really useful to the party I don't think he'd play it.

trogdor

oh, he hasn't used it yet huh?

well if he said he can do stuff like go hidden in the middle of combat, he is probably playing a sniper rogue

or at least picking up their powers, but it wouldn't be too optimal unless he committed to it

also, I can't answer how "fun" it will still be for you

I didn't DM much of 4E, and what little I did I enjoyed at least partly because it was all I was getting to do DM wise

so for that question BESW is the best to ask, but I suspect he will also not be able to tell you how much fun "you yourself" could still have

he could only tell you what his experience was

and neither he nor I have actually played/DMed 4E in a couple years now

Zachiel

I mean, I don't like it when the players need no effort to overcome encounters, but they still take a lot of time.

2

trogdor

@Zachiel that is a problem that 4E happens to have in many cases, sadly

BESW

20:49

**Cool RPG stuff:** [Bundle of Holding](http://bundleofholding.com "buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[Storium with the Stack](http://goo.gl/forms/jvz9Bs6jg8 "an interest survey");
[Deep Dark Blue](http://drivethrurpg.com/product/175636/Deep-Dark-Blue--A-World-of-Adventure-for-Fate-Core "A World of Adventure for Fate Core awaits between the devil and the deep blue sea…");
[Storium launch](https://storium.com/ "Still no native library of storycard art, though.");
[Conan RPG](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/robert-e-howards-conan-roleplaying-game "…

@Zachiel I had a lot of fun as a 4e GM, but it was a very different kind of fun from the sort I have now as a Fate GM.

Creating new monster powers and terrain features to design interesting setpiece battles customised to my party got old eventually, but it took more than a year--and it probably helped that I was using pre-made adventures as a base for most of my scenarios.

Zachiel

I like premade adventures. I guess half my fun comes from having the opportunity to show the players what was in the books.

BESW

I loved the PoL setting to bits and had a lot of fun romping through it and tying the PCs into its lore quite intimately.

There are some very good 4e adventures, and some very bad ones, but mostly they're quality.

A lot of them I just had to re-skin a little to fit my own story.

If you're looking for a big campaign arc, the Tomb of Horrors Superadventure is pretty great either as a stand-alone campaign or as a set of interlocked adventures with unrelated adventures sprinkled between.

Zachiel

I'm doing H1-E3. I heard the next two on the line, P1 and P2 are pretty great, and that P3 is a linear canyon full of monsters and probably the worst adventure ever. I hope that guy who did the Orcus Conversion managed to salvage it.

Grubermensch

@waxeagle woo!

eimyr

21:06

Yo

wazzup?

BESW

Secret Bloop has un-secreted.

Anaphory

Eyup!

BESW

Yawp.

trogdor

secret bloop

eimyr

Ss you know what?

trogdor

21:19

XD

eimyr

This is quite a difficult task to talk to yourself about game design.

and you know, hold your own as both sides of theconversatin

BESW

'struth.

I guess that's why it's not Plato's Lost Monologue.

eimyr

@Zacheil change of approach of the player motivated by a change in what's happening in-universe

@Zachiel e.g. in DnD many players adhere to rules very closely when fighting, but as soon as the fight is over, they play freeform rpg with almost no rolling.

@BESW I'm just tired, not drunk :P

@BESW nevertheless it's difficult and it makes you look like a psycho talking to himself at a bus stop, esp. if you do the voices

slightly better while driving a car, but still not the best

BESW

In college I'd walk to class very early and practice my NPC voices on the empty campus.

I feel my NPC quality has suffered since I lost that space.

Zachiel

@eimyr yes, so what?

eimyr

21:28

@Zachiel I think I would have an easier time if I only did half a conversation

I mean, I'm not like a friend who used to take his leek for a walk on a leash.

I still don't know why.

BESW

What if you made beeps and whoops for the other half, like Luke talking to R2D2?

[isn't helping]

eimyr

I already make Chewbacca noises when I miss the bus.

trogdor

XD

eimyr

It might be a bit too much.

but ya' know I'm not the smartest guy out there

I can barely manage half of an intelligent conversation, much less the entirety

BESW

@eimyr I'm under the impression most of us aren't.

eimyr

21:31

All but one.

So what should I do?

BESW

You could find someone to talk to, or practice an inner monologue instead of an outer dialogue, or develop a dissociative disorder...

eimyr

So I need victims, you say?

BESW

eimyr

I don;'t understand most of your references, @BESW

Zachiel

@eimyr TinEye tells me it's from House of Cards

BESW

21:44

Hmm. How's this?

eimyr

well

while I do watch House of Cards, I never caught a glimpse of the original

BESW

I don't expect everybody to get my references, just like I don't get most of the anime and video game references made in here.

Zachiel

@BESW You're gonna carry that weight.

[faint rimshot]

BESW

22:33

I've put a "Storium with the Stack" link in the Cool RPG Stuff pin. If you're interested in playing a Storium game with me and other Stack folks, please fill out the interest survey.

3

Anaphory

22:49

That looks interesting. I'll want to have a look at it at some point (other things to do at the moment), so I should have a look at this later.

Zachiel

[still thinking about the effects of banning essentials manuals from his campaign]

BESW

No rush at all. I won't be starting a game until Storium puts up their art library.

Anaphory

@BESW Then I'll come back and fill it in once I have settled down again.

Adeptus

23:19

@BESW I saw the "secret bloop" when you posted it... didn't click to discover what the secret was

@Masaka I believe PCGen now supports 5e. The interface takes a little getting used to, but it's a good program.

(*5e SRD. I'm sure "homebrew" datasets exist for the full books, but you're on your own on finding them)

nitsua60

23:40

@BESW is that something one could play without prior experience?

Miniman

@BESW This looks fun! I registered interest, but couldn't work out a way to say I can reply as fast as people post, but only at certain times.

Genesis

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