There's some debate whether a Grease spell creates actual grease, or just a magical slippery substance

@Adeptus Given that it has a duration, it definitely doesn't create actual grease.

Perhaps it summons grease from the Elemental Plane of Grease, which returns to its source when the spell expires.

@BESW From the Forgotten Realms Great Wheel cosmology I'd posit Grease comes from the elemental plane of Ooze, probably somewhere Waterwards.

Surely Grease is Travoltawards of Ooze.

Heh. I have a new plan. Replace my step 3 above with Lightning Bolt. Call the entire attack "Greased Lightning"

@BESW You'll have to show me the compass you use sometime.

"Waterwards of Ooze" would be a good name for an album.

@BESW Last I heard the elemental plane of Travolta was still just a theory, though there is a building case that John was a spontaneous planar outsider visitation manifested through interplanar tectonic pressures.

@BESW hahah, yes :D

(although -- could you light the Elemental Plane of Grease on fire?)

@Shalvenay Interplanar mass destruction is thought to be beyond the power of most creatures who'd think to do it, and beyond the thoughts of most creatures with the power to do it.[adjusts wizarding glasses]

@doppelgreener actually, come to think of it, I wonder if the term "Grease" for what the spell summons is really a misnomer. Could it be like this stuff?

@Shalvenay From an out-of-game perspective, the name 'grease' is a bit of a problem (and possible misnomer) because the spell doesn't say the goop has all the properties we know grease usually has, like the fact it can burn. 'Slippery slime' would make a pretty fun spell name.

@doppelgreener I agree

@Weaveworker89 Hi!

In-universe, what it summons is grease or close enough, and the capacity to burn may not be a universal property of grease.

For real-world lubricants commonly known as grease, are there non-flammable varieties?

Google "high-temperature lubricant."

(Everything is flammable if you try hard enough.)

The catch, generally, is that something with a flash point in excess of 400C is going to probably be a solid at room temperatures.

@Adeptus yeah -- most industrial greases will burn smokily if you try hard enough (such as in the context of a seized bearing)

(i.e. hydrocarbon based greases)

(silicones or fluorocarbon greases, ofc, have much better high-temp performance)

@BESW good rule. :D

above that temperature, you're stuck with things like graphitic lubes

yeah -- those are all very important things to know

kerosene and diesel, for instance, don't pose major vapor risks the way gasoline does because they have high flash points

Of course, none of that is actually relephant to a D&D context, where there's "on fire" and "not on fire."

(you can drop a burning match into a bucket of kerosene or diesel, and....nothing.)

@BESW well, it could be relevant depending on what you make your lamp oil from

"I use oil in my lamp. What do you mean, 'what kind of oil?'"

@BESW could be vegetable oil, animal-fat-based oil, or petroleum oil

(if their lanterns are like ours, it's the last one -- RL oil lamps are kerosene burners)

D&D doesn't differentiate on its own.

D&D just has "oil", is what BESW's suggesting.

The oil burns according to the same rules regardless.

@BESW true. I'm willing to go with the assumption that "lamp oil = kerosene" (although that does imply that FR/Greyhawk/... have the full set of fossil fuels at their disposal)

It will always burn for the same amount of time and have the same difficulty of ignition and deal the same damage and emit the same light.

@Shalvenay that's a problematic assumption to make

D&D's "oil" gives no indication that they have the same distinctions and categories that we do. The rules for fire and ignition ignore concepts like flash point vs fire point.

The world's physics and materials are simplified.

@BESW FWIW, I posted a text file name on the collect data meta for raw tag, if i interests you.

@doppelgreener FWIW, I posted a text file name on the collect data meta for raw tag, if i interests you.

Thanks. I hope more people find it useful.

I'm curious re: the four answers which asked for RAW in-text, and how their answer content/quality compared to those which didn't.

@doppelgreener Might be more yarn theory than string theory, depending on the quality of the weave, even thread theory ... hopefully not like the thread in Pern.

"Yarn theory" sounds about right. Thick and fuzzy.

Tends to fall apart if you twist it the wrong way.

@BESW The four that I noted as GGE had very stringent comments about RAW and make sure not to give me anything else, the others asked for RAW by name and not just "how does it work."

@BESW If I get the time, I'll do April and May as well, as I am curious to see more variations on the theme. Not sure if tomorrow time will permit.

I appreciate the time and energy you're putting into this.

@BESW I figure that if we get some data and try to discuss something on that basis, the answer to mxy's original 'is it ok or is it junk' might get a better answer so we can say "fix it" or "don't fix what ain't broke."

@BESW My deep regret is that my question spawned yet another round of comment wars. I suppose I should have predicted that.

@BESW Nite, and best wishes to all.

ttfn

@KorvinStarmast ditto the appreciating your hard work.

@KorvinStarmast GGE?

Where's that typo goblins doc?

The Misspell Goblins

@eimyr bam. Cough up. rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/75807/…

Even got two tweets from Stewart Wiecks

Oh guys, check out my post in world building about inflation-powered creatures worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/36616/…

I'm well excited about those

I don't know what the feeling towards writing in-character prose for an answer is, but I felt really comfortable doing it

Hey @Wibbs :)

o/

@Polyducks This is the internet and I'm scared to click that.

@GuidingLight It's a stackexchange link :) Not quite sure what sites you've been looking at ;)

I wonder why it's so quiet today. None of the usuals are around...

Maybe there's some sort of convention

that depends on your definition of "today" I guess

I see some of the regulars were here just a little bit ago

at least 4 or 5 of them

Oi, I'm a usual - I just don't say very much

I said at least 4 or 5, I wasn't trying to count everyone who had been here today at all

:p

plus, I could only count people I had seen saying something :P

@Wibbs filthy lurker ;)

lol

I did a lot of that at one point

I am much more active now, when I am actually here

not to say that means every lurker becomes more active, just that I did XD

Be patient, @Polyducks, maybe @Lord_Gareth has a different answer?

@Polyducks I see you're being drawn to the speculative bits of worldbuilding.se

I'm much more drawn to the "reality-check" ones.

@Polyducks Answering IC is fine on worldbuildbuilding so long as it's adding flavour to a valid answer, which those did...although your jellyfish one could do with a bit more explanation

@Polyducks Well, I've been called filthy plenty of times, but lurker? How dare you :p

@TimB Creatures, even in the DMG, need an air of mystery to allow flexibility for the DM. Besides, I clarify information in the comments :)

lmao

Is that something in real life?

yeah

eimyr's back in town

this is what you get if you google images for "filthy lurker"

Where are you finding these? They're -amazing-!

@Polyducks Comments should be treated as temporary, it's better to edit the information into the post even if it's a section at the end or something

@Eimyr Yes, world building is really fun for writing speculative fiction.

Fun for whom?

@TimB Alright, that's good advice. I'll add those sorts of things as footnotes

The one who answers or the one who asks?

The one for whom the bell tolls

I was very disappointed at the answers to my question.

I asked only one.

If you want to spend another week looking for stuff, feel free to take a look

Well you got 5 answers, so that's not bad really :p. From what I remember the question was a little unfocused which may be why you felt the answers didn't really give you what you needed

perhaps

Or maybe I wanted very concrete, nonspeculative answers that justify their own assertions

>non speculative

>world building

or least speculative

I actually just accepted one.

One posted when I already lsot interest

@doppelgreener Every time someone makes a change to the goblins I'm amazed.

I don't tend to reply to questions with more than two answers. It just feels like what needs to be said has been said

Or that nobody will read the answer anyway

That's a valid opinion :) I do sometimes but only if I see something I think the other answers missed

Man.

Basically, if giving the answer doesn't feel useful or personally rewarding, it's not for me

@Eimyr were you impressed at my ability to get a tweet from Steven Weickz?

I'm itching to write a pre-singularity, non-post-scarcity, posthumanism Fate expansion.

@Polyducks I am impressed. Have you tried Satyros and Rein٠Hagen?

@eimyr ...which kind of posthumanism?

VHE?

Suddenly, @BESW. I'd say the one that says "your posthumanism is WRONG, you filthy heretic"

@BESW nah, abandoning humanity in pursuit of immortality one. Not sure if there is a name.

Transhumanism?

perhaps

yeah, I think I meant that actually. Thanks.

I... kinda think Transhuman might meet that description, even though technically it's post-scarcity (most of the culture is still hypercapitalist) and post-singularity (it's actually post-post-singularity).

Transhuman is the currently-in-beta Fate version of Eclipse Phase.

I would like to sit down and think about what happens if: humanity discovers more than one way of attaining immortality, both of which are mostly too expensive to implement for an average individual AND the brain-computer interface creates an economy based on brain-powered processing power as main commodity AND consciousness can be temporarily held by brain-powered processing array, so that creates a huge Ponzi scheme of living people providing brainspace to dead people.

@eimyr ping @Magician: how accurate is this to EP?

Welp, that's my idea that's itching my backside and there's no easy way to scratch it.

I'm pretty sure all of that happens in EP. I'm not sure how common it is.

@BESW Can I throw in Jedi-style telepaths as well?

@eimyr Reproduction would have to be counterbalanced by an organised system of culling if immortality were possible.

@Polyducks unless it isn't and the society realizes the current practice is unsustainable.

@Polyducks I'm thinking a situation like now: we KNOW petroleum-based economy is unsustainable and some people try to address that, but most of the world is still in denial.

So a world of over-population?

If you have people living in a virtual space like "Ready Player 1" then you can put them in smaller and smaller living spaces, fitting more of them in and providing cheaper sustinence.

Yeah, but also one that had the capacity to uphold itself for at least some time.

OK, imagine that you have a "brain allowance" that you're paying for, but every month it's less and less and more expensive.

you know that at this rate you will either be sleeping most of the time or just plain stupid.

And there is a lot of folks like you are! So what do you do? You try to have more brain providers, more children etc.

But there lies another trap: soon the world will not have the capacity to sustain that mass of brain providers, but it's easier and less risky to put your resources towards promoting overpopulation than finding an alternative processing power source.

Sure, you could do like the rich folk - just build yourself a quantum mainframe, but you can't afford it. Or you could try genetics and hybrydisation, but so far it carries a lot of risk and people say you're not like your old self if you go that route.

And there are those pesky telepaths in their ghettos who oppose everything you do, blasted supremacists.

So... yeah

That's my itch.

Why do I need more brain space?

What's the thing preventing me from thinking?

Or are we talking superbrains?

also, why would you need superbrains?

@Polyducks Well, your business needs superbrain to run it's servers etc.

But you also want to have capacity to think quickly if the alternative is to be stupid?

omg rpg.stackexchange.com/a/76069/14670

This is awesome

@eimyr Yeah, but...is it actually good advice? I'm not sure.

Worked for me.

My GMing has improved substantially since I started habitually using rpg.se

Maybe I wouldn't be so specific about BBS, there is a number of people that are worth listening to and not just one oracle. Also, I'd rather say "read everything with 25 upvotes or more".

@eimyr Everything with 25 upvotes or more enscapulates a whole lot of stuff, much of it obvious or irrelevant.

I believe in querent's ability to recognise that.

@eimyr Sure, but it's still an approach that would waste an awful lot of time. Not saying read everything by BBS is any better, of course - the D&D surveillance state is cool and all, but reading about it is unlikely to help GMs improve their skills.

Well, what I did was to go to questions (then answers), sort them by score and see if any seem interesting.

Rinse, repeat until you are a better GM.

I am arisen.

Who called upon me?

On that subject, it's time for me to un-arise.

Unarise would be a great name... name... name...

@Magician Eclipse Phase!

So, EP doesn't have quite that... In fact it is in some ways the opposite. Processing power is relatively cheap. Bodies and living space for them is much more expensive. After the Fall when singularity went the way it usually does, something like 95% of humanity has died. Of survivors, many remain in uploaded cold storage.

If people do get around to running their consciousness in a simulation, they are typically exploited. They can do crappiest jobs imaginable that for whatever reason they're still better at than AI, with very little hope of earning enough to offset all unexpected expenses and penalties and eventually get a body and get out of there.

Once you do get out and have a body, though, you're virtually immortal. There's constant back-up running on a cheap implant almost anyone can afford, and for a reasonable fee there is backup insurance which means even if your implant cannot be recovered, you'll just be missing memories since the last backup.

In Eclipse Phase, the cloud saves you.

And of course some people choose to live in virtual realities, or have weird bodies or... the entire gamut of transhumanism and post-humanism, really. Though post-humanists are viewed with suspicion, as they are weird, man.

@Crizly Hi!

I see. Well, it is different.

BTW, @eimyr, in my current campaign the NPC spoiler is using a spoiler to join people together for a spoiler, but he's doing it by spoiler and will spoiler.

@BESW It feels eerily familiar.

The catch is he's spoiler about the whole thing despite how spoiler it sounds.

I'm basing a lot of his psyche off the ideas in the Imperial Radch series.

I read too little.

I've started reading a lot more since I put ebooks on my phone, but it's only certain kinds of books that I can read in dribs and drabs throughout the day.

Well, my all-time favourite PC-turned-villain has already spoiler and now he's spoiler because of his spoiler so that he can spoiler.

His main driving philosophy is spoiler but he mainly does that because spoiler making him a spoiler

I'm reminded of the lich who kept the entire world embroiled in generations of warfare so that nobody would come bother him.

lulz

What was he doing in the meantime?

Pottery. Breeding hermit crabs. Changing the riddle on his front door.

Writing a treatise on the kinds of dust different creatures turn into when disintegrated.

Sooo... not at all important stuff?

Maintaining a lively mail correspondence with an interplanar-traveling dragon.

@eimyr You sound like a volunteer for the dust study.

Nah. He just wanted to be left alone.

But whenever the elves and humans stopped fighting, they'd get curious about the islands of eternal darkness at the centre of the world and he'd get folks banging on his door all day night and night.

Best edit I've ever seen.

So he made some minions and hired some mercenaries and invented a cult or three and now whenever the war looks to be winding down, he pulls some strings and everybody gets all angry again.

I love it.

(The pottery thing is a natural result of his discovery that disintegrated dwarves make excellent clay.)

What were the riddles?

When the party got around to his front door, it was

(But centred in a really fancy font.)

What was the answer?

Press the first and last letters on the last line at the same time.

(The letter "E" is the beginning and ending of the phrase "every life.")

Never would have thought of pressing stuff at the same time.

Saying "E" out loud was also acceptable.

It's a pedantic riddle, not a perverse one.

Yeah, I hate riddles where I know the answer and have no idea how to deliver them.

In a later campaign, I had a tomb where access to each level was blocked by an angel with a riddle describing previous campaign events in Revelatory language. The point was to get the players to think about what they'd learnt and experienced and put it together, so any answer even vaguely related to the subject was acceptable.

...the players didn't know that, of course.

A player in my upcoming (YMMV) game had concerns about the distribution of XP and GM making arbitrary judgement over players' performance. I told him flat out: I never do the stuff written in XP section. I just pretend I do and then everyone gets the same amount and one sentence of praise per game.

@Eimyr I do the same, but vary the XP by about 50 points depending on player contribution

If someone said one sentence in the game which was "I follow", they don't get very much at all.

I specifically don't.

I know you don't, we're different DMs

You don't think players should be punished or awarded on their contribution

I believe it makes for better players

You don't

That's just how we 'roll'

I encourage participation by having everyone describe how they roleplayed their characters well this game. Resources are distributed on that basis. I never say "no" when a player makes his case.

I mean, it's their character, they know better. Also, cockroaches and turtles are equally welcome around my table, but if they want extra bonus next game, they better do som introspection. That's all I want, not reward or punishment but reflection.

I standardised advancement in D&D games after I realised people who missed several sessions were likely to just stop attending if their PC had no realistic chance to catch up. Same reason I hacked level draining monsters and raise dead spells, and then abandoned long-form XP advancement systems entirely.

@BESW Do you use Fate's advancement, slow as it is?

At some point I realized I'd rather have my players show up and play because they want to play, not because they don't want to miss out on xp.

@Magician Kinda-not-really. We use the "changing stuff" bits but attendance is so spotty for half the group that the actual number-increasing bits are just set aside as too much to track.

And yeah, a few years before I started using story-unit advancement systems like Fate, I was already playing D&D such that level advancement was triggered solely by story events.

That sounds like it's the best way to do it

At least it keeps all the characters on the same base

Generally we don't do linear advancement at all anymore.

@Magician I think ARRPG's +5 starting skill cap is about as high as PC skill ranks can get before they start making the dice pointless.

And ARRPG's already got a mechanic for having as many stunts as you want.

@BESW True. But I don't think PCs can actually exceed +5 even with advancement - they just specialize more skills.

Hmm. I will ask that question of the main site tomorrow.

Specialising more skills has its own gameplay flattening implications, as your mode skills all approach the cap but your non-mode skills stay at +0, and you lose anything in the +1 and +2 range.

But now, bed.

hey y'all

G'night!

Hello @MarcDingena

@eimyr What's up eimyr?

not much, you?

work, but pre-game excitement is creeping in again

saturday is session #2 for this new campaign :)

super psyched for it

Is that the shadowdude game?

@eimyr Yes, it is. But we're only level 2 so far.

Woah! I've just jumped a bunch of rep today :O

up from 50 to 405

turns out writing answers is actually helpful to other people

405?

you can only grab 200 per site per day

Per server day, indeed.

;)

I got some badges for being trusted cross-site

300 rep worth of badges

@Polyducks The best is when it ends up not getting accepted as the answer...

@MarcDingena Yeah, I can believe it - though I've had some of the questions I asked at the very start of my life here accepted only last month

Which sort of reaffirmed my belief, and why I'm now answering questions again

I answered a question almost a whole year ago and the question has not accepted an answer yet.

It's considered my best answer on this site yet no acknowledgement from the asker. :(

And probably never will

Yep.

good answer btw

@MarcDingena Have some more rep for a good answer

@Polyducks Did you actually read it? ;) I don't mind getting some free rep but it should stand for something.

I never had a score over 40 for an answer

I guess I'm more of a question guy.

@MarcDingena Of course I read it. You read between the lines and saw the players were being noobs.

I encourage you to actually read the question and its answers (not just mine), then if you really did find it a useful answer, throw me some rep.

@Eimyr is that question, "WHY do I never get more rep for my answers?"

I also found the one below yours much more entertaining. I'm not sure if entertaining is better than correct, but that got an upvote too

no, not really

I know why - my answers are not too great and they are often dealing with very soft or situational topics.

Some fancy-lookin' knights

Indeed my generalist answers have the best score.

@doppelgreener I like how the artist managed to arrange outfits made from pieces from completely different historical periods

@doppelgreener wait, did I say like?

@eimyr Yes! I like this too, because this is fantasy art made to look cool and it doesn't matter.

See the three knights on white background?

The one in the middle has a gladiator helmet, pauldrons and a breastplate.

I would get all silly about how the breastplate leaves his shoulders exposed.. but then I noticed his weapon.

I see you have a pet peeve about historical accuracy in your fantasy armor, but I do not share it.

well... not really about historical accuracy

much more about practical accuracy if the art is stylised for gritty detail

[shrugs so hard that arms dislocate]

I mean, I have no problem with WoW extreme pauldrons, but I do think scale armor is silly.

@doppelgreener visualized that; horrified and amused at the same time

This is a list containing a guy who looks like his shield would fight you all on its own, and someone else who appears to be literally on fire, and someone else who may not even be human. My expectations about any sort of realistic treatment of armor are already totally checked out, my belief is suspended.

If it looks cool to combine armor from three different periods, I'm all for seeing an artist express that.

But primarily I do not like that the first response you gave was a sarcastic caustic remark that, if anything, would just make me feel bad for even sharing the thing at all. A fun thing to share! Which people would like! Being a dick to people sharing kinda cool stuff is a great way to get them to stop sharing cool stuff. Except I know other people will like it, so I'm gonna share this stuff anyway, and ask that you not be a jerk about it when I do.

Very well. Should I sandwich my remarks next time?

Oh, that's a wonderful thing you shared there. Too bad I don't like it at all. Don't be discouraged though!

I suggest if all you have to say is "your thing is dumb", zip it.

OR I can remark how I like certain thing, even though I expected to not like it at all. Just like I did.

@doppelgreener I'm sorry for being that sarcastic. I didn't mean to discourage you, if anything, to spark a discussion related to various designs you posted. I like many of them, dislike some, other ones are done in a coherent manner despite adlib design, which is something that surprises me.

@eimyr The way you responded was with a sick burn to make fun of something which was clearly beside the point. It's art, it's there for exploring different ideas, it would be boring without that stuff happening. That didn't invite discussion, it invited making fun of something, and dared others to defend it, so that it could be made fun of.

That was not the starter of a sensible even-toned discussion about practical armor combinations.

Does the Great Wheel cosmology apply to Pathfinder as well, as I think it's from D&D 3.x?

@MarcDingena The usual Great Wheel is from Forgotten Realms, while Pathfinder's set in Golarion. It might have a version of it though.

@doppelgreener Oh, my bad! My campaign is definitely set in Forgotten Realms, but we use Pathfinder as the system.

So, I guess it will apply to my campaign, regardless that it's using Pathfinder then?

@doppelgreener If there is anything left to say I suggest we find a better place for it. What do you say?

If that is not implicit, my next stop would be the GM ;)

@MarcDingena Yeah, that's a setting detail, so you'll have the Forgotten Realms Great Wheel even if you're playing in Roll for Shoes. (Probably. Until such time someone overrides it.)

@eimyr I think that's all. I'm grumped up, I've said why.

good morning

@JoshuaAslanSmith ello ello

@eimyr @doppelgreener The bar is open as always for heated discussions outside the mainstream rpg main chat

@doppelgreener I've apologised and I don't plan further aggression, active or passive.

@eimyr i see you did and i missed that somehow. thank you.

@doppelgreener So what's for lunch today?

@eimyr i am not sure, it's 1:24am. i will be feasting on sleep for the next few hours imminently.

oh

I thought it might be very early for you and you already aticipate lunch.

More like "what's for dinner?" for me.

That would probably be shawarma :)

nice!

Guys, this is an RPG question

whut

Anyone know when pokemon red/blue/yellow is coming out on the nintendo eshop?

and schwarma is pretty tasty

haha what

@polyducks Id say ask on arquade but release date questions aren't on topic there

@JoshuaAslanSmith @Polyducks ask the Arqade chat instead?

I didn't know that's a chat! Thanks guys :)

hrm... I can't find it. Can someone link?

okay I'm there. Oh my God this site is amazing

@Polyducks gaming.stackexchange.com

yeah ive gotten a fair bit of rep for kotor and witcher questions but I cant actually participate in the site because the community is trash

@JoshuaAslanSmith ooh I need to play more Kotor...maybe tomorrow night in my hotel if I don't have too much work.

(trying the mobile version :))

@waxeagle I dont know if you know but they released an official patch including the restored content mod back into the main game (on steam at least) for KOTOR II and I know that a fan project is recreating KOTOR in Unreal 4 with first person camera as a toggleable option

I know it might be heresy, but is Kotor basically NWN in space?

@eimyr not heresey, btu it definitely isnt that

NWN never struck me as having a real story

so what would kotor be similar to apart from kotor?

and it had all that crazy modding and gm support

gameplay-wise

I mean its based on the d20 starwars game from WOTC that was out at the time mechanically speaking

but the actual story experience, maybe closer to something like dragon age

combat is sort of simlar in that its not grid based but basically there are turns that happen on a timer in real time, you can queue up actions, pause at will

its standard betheseda too where they make the first game and then obsidian makes the sql which has better writing but is buggier

@JoshuaAslanSmith oh I think I own KOTOR 2 on steam...somewhere

@JoshuaAslanSmith and honestly, KOTOR 2 felt a bit clunky and not finished.

.

I was a bit surprised to see it basicaly use the same UI which means it felt dated

@waxeagle it was not finished, had a rushed devleopment and there was 1 whole world dropped (and the jedi on that world) form the main quest

and the ending confrontation world also got rushed

restored content mod adds that stuff back in and some other fixes

much more fulfilling story experience as a result

Great. Two downvotes and a nasty comment.

What is the point of that stack? Seriously.

@JoshuaAslanSmith obsidian makes it buggier? Well that's a first for me...

@JoshuaAslanSmith true, I haven't played any TES games, but for Fallout 3/NV it seemed rather opposite

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah, I've heard that. Looking forward to grabbing a restored content version.

Though I have basically 0 PC gaming time

@Polyducks That's the real world for you. Can you link it?

@Polyducks they get a lot of really terrible stuff usually and so the community and the mods are just rough as it were to questions and users in general over there

@Polyducks At least you got a comment with that downvote. That's a courtesy that is quite rare in my experience.

@eimyr FO3 has a more classic narrative arc but I cared way more about the characters I met and d got involved with in NV and I feel the same way about Kotor (bioware) vs KotorII(obsidian0

@MarcDingena gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/256479/…

I've solved it anyway. I just couldn't find the answer on my phone.

@Polyducks OH I was telling you to ask in chat

@JoshuaAslanSmith brutal as hell.

over there

I couldn't find the chat room. perhaps it was frozen

release date questions are explicitly off-topic for their site

@Polyducks Chat room is when you click on the stack's title in the top left corner, and it has a chat link next to its name (just like Meta is linked in that window).

@JoshuaAslanSmith worth me deleting it then?

Deleted it

@Polyducks yeah id self delete it

@polyducks From their tour:

It's not really speculation if there's an explicit release date

I think the speculation part is related to "the future of the industry", not the rest of that sentence.

@Polyducks its because release dates change often enough that its too uncertain and youll have answers that were right 2 weeks ago and now are no longer right

I might be wrong. But @JoshuaAslanSmith mentioned earlier as well that they probably don't receive such questions very well, after which I suggested you go into their chat room instead.

I recommend the site but specifically said chat and then in anoter line a moment later said that release date questions were offtopic

ah i didnt say chat

but I did say it was off topic

Either way, we can assume I'm not very good at listening

I apologised to the mod and it's all gravy.