Or maybe I'm drawing parallels between two unrelated things? I don't know.

I do vaguely recall hearing that

wasn't that WoD though?

WoD used a slightly different model that confused the problem a little.

At least, nWoD did. never played CoD or oWoD

Basically, you got 5 dots to assign to one family of attributes, 4 to another, and 3 to the third.

You could assign up to 4 dots at the cost of one dot per dot (and you always started out with a minimum of one dot in each attribute)

To get to 5 dots in a single attribute though, you needed to spend two dots for that last dot.

So it siloed the stats pretty hard, and made it less appealing to max out a stat.

the fun bit about d20 Modern's Knapsack Problem is that not only does it have the issue of invoking it

but it's a little extra complex: the value of each individual item changes as you progress

thankfully not retroactively

Oh what? No.

No no no no.

is that a "no, you're wrong, that's not an issue" or an "oh god what the hell" No no no no?

The latter.

Why create a system like this? Why this complex?

but yeah

also, sometimes it's randomized.

if you have an item that costs DC 30

[double-checks rules]

and a wealth bonus of +30, that item will cost 1 wealth point, reducing your bonus to 29

at which point another one of that item costs 2 wealth points.

when you hit wealth bonus +19, that item now costs 1 + 1d6 wealth points

when you hit wealth bonus +14, it costs 1 + 2d6

Were they trying to make chargen last as long as possible?

@WrongOnTheInternet If so, they still haven't beat deadEarth.

the chargen bit was an unfortunate accident, I think

in actual play, it only happens once per transaction, and there's no optimization here. You need an item, you go buy it. Game goes on

but then they just went "and in chargen, take 10 on wealth checks most of the time"

oh yeah, that bit

sometimes, items refuse to be bought, as well, if you decide to roll for things.

or items that could otherwise not be added can be.

whee, complexity

lemme fetch my spreadsheet from that one game

@BESW I contest your point on the basis that you'd only ever create a character three times in deadEarth though, so you'd be thinking very carefully each time about your choices.

deadEarth chargen asks you to roll a minimum of 627d6 + 6d10 for chargen. There is no upper limit, and no guarantee you will get a playable character at the end of the process. So they suggest you roll three characters and pick the most playable.

wat

wow

If deadEarth is the system I'm thinking of, where if you die three times, you're not allowed to play it ever again.

Like that's a punishment.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/…

It is not a game I would inflict on anyone, but if you skip 600 of the dice rolls the rest of the chargen is actually kinda hilarious in a train-wroeck sort of way.

this was what I used to map my equipment both in chargen and after it

Dammit. The Recht Not Recht thing got me.

:D

Not Recht had a stun mode.

I had a lot of fun abusing using d20 Future's item customization

With that spreadsheet setup, it actually looks pretty manageable after the fact.

yeah.

what's not shown: realizing I needed something specific and the only way to buy it is to slot it into the middle

then, an hour of refactoring later: realizing if I shuffle the list slightly, I can get something for "free" thanks to the way values change as you go down in wealth

worst WBL scheme ever

Would you write a program to do this? Just enter in DC's and let the program sort (or approximate if you're worried it'll take too long) them to get you the most bang for your buck?

computation time is probably gross

Yeah, but with 40 items or so, it's probably still only going to take under a second.

true

could be an interesting project

Today I have learnt there is a worse gear-picking system than Stargate SG-1.

"Have you considered writing a program to calculate your starting wealth" is not something I ever want to hear as legitimately good advice about a ttrpg system

People made colour-coded flash cards for the SG-1 gearing-up phase, but they didn't help much.

the annoying part that I'm not sure how I'd want to code would be getting it to spit out the "holes" in your wealth progression

like

@Forrestfire Yeah. It sounds easier to just hack it with a linear "I have X points of wealth, and at chargen, that means I have X*Y + Z slots of wealth to burn, where Y and Z are some constants."

if you've got an item at DC 35

and an item at DC 30

then you've got DC 34 through 31 worth of items you're wasting if you jump straight from DC 35 to DC 30

@Forrestfire Is it simple enough to print mostly blank lines with the appended "Hey dummy! Put something here!"

hrm

no, what I'd need to do is have it flag when I buy something that is both below my wealth bonus and also does not leave my wealth bonus below the next purchase down

if I buy a DC 35 at wealth bonus +35, then a DC 30 at wealth bonus 34 (to go to 33), then that's one thing

if I buy something that drops me from wealth bonus +35 to +30, then buy that DC 30 in the next step, that's another

and my 3:30am brain is not figuring out a decent way to handle that

Eh, I'd say write the program later, after sleep.

heh, yeah.

I mean

ideally I will never have to deal with that again

"3:30am Brain" would be a good name for a psytrance album.

the only reason I'd play d20 Modern right now is a continuation of the game the above character is from (which was awesome, but died before it could end and the DM's unlikely to get the time or drive to finish it), or to play in Urban Arcana

but if I were playing in Urban Arcana, I'd honestly just weld 5e to Fate and call it a day

...or an album that's just recordings off of numbers stations.

@Forrestfire That sounds...

Let's just say I'd be interested in seeing the results.

I had tried it

replaced Inspiration Points with aspects

Sounds like 13th Age to me.

@BESW Ah, I haven't heard any psytrance in a long time.

didn't do a full skill rehash

have been tempted

the end result would probably just be Fate with 5e's nicely smooth combat system for fights.

I haven't actually gotten the chance to play a legit Fate game ;_;

Someday I will run another Fate game in chat.

@Forrestfire Fate has always been one of those systems I've looked at, said "Huh, looks kinda interesting, maybe I should check it out" and then never did.

I think there's a waiting list.

@WrongOnTheInternet I'm pretty much in the same boat

I love the game and uphold it as an icon of well-designed systems

but I have yet to play it

just watch people play

@Forrestfire Watch people play it? Where?

irc

Oh. FAE.

sat in on some sessions of a friend's games

nah, was Fate core

iirc

You weren't invited?

I was busy

I have not looked into Accelerated Edition yet

Ah, I see.

mostly my gaming tends to be D&D lately

or PF, which counts as D&D.

the latter almost entirely because I have been exposed to far more of it in the past year as a result of writing for Dreamscarred Press

@Forrestfire You're also writing for Dreamscarred Press?

I am.

FAE is a slightly stripped-down version of Core; the biggest difference is that they replaced "what things you're good at doing" skills with "how you're good at doing things" approaches. Gives it more of a TV Logic feel: the Clever person is equally good at biology and observation and hacking, while the Forceful person can interrogate people and kick down doors equally well.

that sounds really neat

I might use that for my eventual full-on weld to 5e

I think that having those and applying them to 5e's skills might work a bit better than replacing with aspects. Iunno.

If you're serious about hacking 5e that way, be sure to also look at 13th Age.

more busy writing actual stuff than homebrew, really.

I second that 13th Age recommendation. System is good.

I do need to do that at some point. I've heard good things about it.

13th Age got some interesting halfway markers between the systems.

honestly, what I'd really like to see is a hack together of 4e and Fate

I'm not sure if you know this or are allowed to say, but what tends to be the most profitable kind of book put out by Dreamscarred Press?

since 4e went the way of "out of combat rules are mostly freeform"

Or are they all mostly Supplements?

Like, instead of skills or approaches, it has backgrounds: phrases like Fate aspects, but with skill-like ranks. When you need to do something that'd call for a skill roll in D&D, in 13th Age you explain which of your backgrounds is relevant to the task and roll that.

I'm not actually sure

I mean... Pretty much all of the stuff I've worked on is supplements

they're mostly in the business of writing supplements for Pathfinder, after all. A couple of their own core systems, and then supplements onto those

most profitable? Probably either the big combined project PDFs, or the smaller individual ones

former because people pick up those to get all the rules, the latter because the production costs are lower

or something.

I got brought on as the editor of one of said projects (Path of War Expanded) and ended up in charge of another one, which was an interesting and abrupt promotion

anyway, I really need to sleep

night all. Was fun talking

Alright, thanks for letting me pick your brain.

Nice talking to you.

Ah, I should probably get off myself. This cold isn't going to kill itself.

@Mourdos Hi!

@BESW [mental image of players pulling out switchblades and jumping up from table, @BESW trying frantically to GM the tension away...]

@BESW humbly request inclusion on that waiting list?

Could someone help fix this?

anydice.com/program/7a53

@AncientSwordRage What are you trying to do there?

@Magician we have a scoring system for tags in our site to determine if they're fit for purpose

9 questions scored as -1,1,2,

A score over 12 means excellent

Under 8 it's bad

I wanted to see how many combinations per category

So a distribution of sums?

Anydice is fiddly. Do you want to know why your code didn't work, or do you want to just get working code?

(here's hoping I remember enough about it to actually do it quickly)

@Magician the latter, I should be able to figure the former out once I see the working version

@AncientSwordRage Like this?

done

Awesome

@nitsua60 I'm curious, did you see my answer on the meta you just answered?

@BESW Yo

@Miniman [awkward] erm... somehow I missed that answer =\

Sorry--thought I'd kept up-to-date on that question!

@nitsua60 All good, just thought it was worth checking.

@Miniman a few comments, if I may?

@nitsua60 Go for it! Edits, too.

Eh, I'll throw them out here and you can see if any strike you as useful. (a) I think it's too strong to call WE's answer "correct." Rather, I think yours is equally correct, and the way you phrase it seems to give your answer a second-class status.

(b) I might have said "spend" rep rather than "sacrifice." The bounty-placer isn't losing rep with no gain, the bounty-placer is spending rep to obtain a better answer and, ultimately, a better site.

(c) I think the last "con" bullet's unnecessary. A note in the head- or foot-matter indicating you could have a perceived conflict of interest would suffice, but I don't think it's a con as regards the concept/answer.

That's it.

@nitsua60 That's pretty much how I view it. Bounties aren't really the right tool for this, and I'd only consider using one once comments and votes had failed.

@nitsua60 This is a good point, definitely worth editing.

@nitsua60 This, too.

@Miniman fair enough. I don't think it's wrong to call WE's correct, but I think yours is equally correct. So I'll upvote both =)

(You, in the meanwhile, thinking WE's is more-correct, will have to content yourself with upvoting his but not yours.)

(he he he)

@nitsua60 Sometimes things fall out so neatly!

Stack works!

off to breakfast. Have a nice <strike>evening</strike> night =)

@nitsua60 Off to bed! (1.30 am) have a nice day!

@Shalvenay if you're around at some point today, can you ping me? I've got a couple of little questions.

This question really bugs me for some reason. rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/74601/…

Probably because I want to answer it, but I'm not touching it with a 10 foot pole.

> Has the ability to rage, simulating the battlerager rage abilities.

See, from an optimisation point of view, I've looked into playing a grappler, and I found druid to be the best, due to the 'grab' special, and racial grapple moves, like constrict, along with size and str bonuses.

Bankuei is not around the chat anymore, I see. We have a link rot pointing to the 404 page of his blog.

@nitsua60 yeah, what is it?

@BESW I remember! Kobolds are my baby!

Hello @Darío

I see you don't have enough reputation yet to write in the chat, but not much is needed (I think it's 10)

Probably, getting back to your question on the main site and splitting it up as separate questions might net you 10 rep or more.

@Zachiel 20+.

yeah it is indeed 20

I only remember because that was my goal way back when I started

could care less after that XD

if I cared a little bit more I would probably have 1k now XD

anyway, off to the workplace