TRPG General Chat

Polyducks

15:00

Yeah, me too. The very first game I DM'd I pitted a group of level 1s against an owlbear. They would've died if the cleric hadn't used 'talk to animals' to bring rats out from the prisons to eat it from the inside out.

anaximander

so that's a simple "go kill the things" quest that they should pick up on happily (got some first-time RPGers, so keeping if simple for now

but obviously it leads to "what happened to the Rangers' Guild people?"

Polyducks

At which point you can have a dying ranger in the forest, and he'll tell of a (group of monsters) that stole the rest of the party.

Right! You've nailed it @anaximander

anaximander

yeah

and the Rangers' Guild have a headquarters (which is totally not based on Kaer Morhen) that is some distance off, so they'll likely have to go there, but they'll pass through a few other places on the way, all of which have Things To Do, some of which are related

so, the Rangers' Guild provide a larger plot

Polyducks

Can rangers have a guild? In second edition no more than four can tolerate being together in the same place.

anaximander

but then it turns out that part of the problem is that they're being spread thin, because of a Bigger Problem, for which they need to travel elsewhere...

Polyducks

15:03

Rule of cool though ;) If it fits, play it.

anaximander

@Polyducks yeah - this is a totally custom setting, and the way I'm envisioning it, it's not a particularly tight-knit group

mostly they keep a rough register and make sure rangers charge fair prices

rangers wander about keeping the roads safe, which is a Tough Job, But Somebody Has To Do It

so to make sure someone is doing it, the Guild keeps a list

and makes sure that fraudsters don't say "hey, I'll clear the road" then hide in a bush for three days before claiming all the gold

in terms of actual Guild function, the rangers don't actually see each other much ;)

eimyr

@anaximander Wait. Kaer Morhen. Are you a Witcher fan?

anaximander

@eimyr yes

eimyr

Books?

anaximander

haven't read them all, but I'm working my way through

eimyr

15:08

Are you using the fan translation?

anaximander

I have the official translation of the first; fan translations of the rest

only read a little bit so far though; got distracted by Jim Butcher

...and then couldn't put it down

eimyr

Unfortunately, when I re-read the Witcher saga I'm less impressed than the first time.

But I'm a fan nevertheless.

anaximander

I'd like to find time to go read them all though; I've nearly finished playing through Wild Hunt's main story and I'm loving it

eimyr

Major spoilers though.

I didn't play TW3 yet

Polyducks

Guys, gotta go. Love ya all.

eimyr

15:12

cheers!

Polyducks

@eimyr I'll email you later broseph

eimyr

@Polyducks Thanks!

Polyducks

@doppelgreener I'll let you do lines of coke off my thighs for a game. Let me know.

anaximander

I'm used to that; I've read a lot of things that became films, and stuff like that

in all but a few cases, I've given up caring which I got to first

eimyr

I jsut can't bear to look at the game's Triss chest.

anaximander

15:13

Harry Potter was different enough that when I re-read the books I still see things almost exactly as I did before the movies happened

- which is odd in places, because I have two images of so many locations in my mind

Eragon I gave up on the movie three minutes in

LotR and the Hobbit, my mind generally goes to the movies for visuals, but I remember the books' plotline mostly

doppelgreener

@Polyducks Tell you what, don't do that and a game may happen.

anaximander

@Polyducks @doppelgreener I know that feeling

the it's-been-too-long-since-I-played feeling

I've missed my regular session the last few times and I can't wait for Monday

doppelgreener

our current group thankfully has multiple people willing to GM, and a story and system that are fine with sharing authorship

anaximander

our DM has been intermittently ill, and half the party have been unavailable for various reasons

which has led to a few missed sessions, and a few sessions with reduced numbers that sorta devolved into messing about

which was unsatisfactory

but things have started moving again lately, so I'm looking forward to it

I miss my tiefling warlock

doppelgreener

My group is one BESW and trogdor had going before I met them on here, and then we became friends and I and one of my real life friends now get together and have Skype video calls with them to play the game together via telepresence.

BESW was the one and only GM for like a decade before that, so he's pretty grateful for the chance to finally also be a player because of trogdor, myself, and others taking over GMing various sessions.

anaximander

15:27

I'm the reverse; I've been playing for a number of years now, wanted to DM for most of that, but our DM has a load of plans and enjoys doing it, and I'm happy to let him continue because he's good at it

and our game moves slowly enough as it is; I didn't want to suggest alternating or anything cos it'd go even slower

doppelgreener

yeah, our group's maintained one primary story at a time and i don't think we'd do it differently

we co-GM the same game and story, or we do one-shots in other systems sometimes (like the roll for shoes sales competition game) which anyone's liable to GM.

anaximander

it just so happened that I was visiting some friends from college and found they'd decided to try D&D, and their DM was enjoying it but really wanted a chance to be a player

his party wanted to continue playing, he wanted to be a player, I want to DM, and we were all looking to plan regular meetups... it just worked

so I'm prepping stuff

doppelgreener

awesome :)

anaximander

I have an old setting I've had in mind for ages now (over ten years, I think) and I've only ever managed to run a handful of sessions in it

never stopped me having ideas, though

actually it was the setting for a book first... and then multiple books...

but I never had time to finish writing them, and kept running into plotline issues, so I converted the whole world into a D&D setting and wrote a sci-fi instead ;)

doppelgreener

i am very rapidly suddenly getting sleepy

so i am going to go and sleep

goodnight!

@anaximander sounds fair :D

[zzz]

anaximander

15:38

goodnight!

MadMAxJr

17:28

If anybody has a bit of Fate experience under their belt, I'm looking for a brief summary of what the Fate system does well, where it has rough edges, and a bonus point for any tips on d20 system players trying out Fate for the first time. (Fate Core / Fate Accelerated)

Smurfton

17:39

@MadMAxJr I have all of ten minutes' experience. Does that count as a bit?

MadMAxJr

I don't know much about it at all other than it's a fudge dice game. Just curious how it plays.

Ahriman

@MadMAxJr @BESW

AncientSwordRage

17:56

@doppelgreener Evening

Ahriman

@MadMAxJr bookmark that perhaps helps a bit

AncientSwordRage

Oops

The page loads with a post reference

Smurfton

Oh, hey, you did respond.

I just so happen to have one of... I think it was @doppelgreener 's character sheets open

docs.google.com/document/d/…

Fate does a good job of having the persona of the character be a part of the build of the character, which you can see pretty well there

MadMAxJr

Hmm. Pretty simple sheet details. I like that.

Okay, I like the stunt for pulling a Freedom of Information request.

Smurfton

And, since the build is related to who the character is, you wind up sorta roleplaying

Even if you aren't

MadMAxJr

18:21

A paperwork dog. Neat.

Smurfton

Sweetheart is a character in Skin Horse ( www.skin-horse.com )

Smurfton

18:53

Why, hello there

@Miniman?

You just entered

Miniman

20:00

@Smurfton Sort of - travelling atm.

BESW

20:34

13

Q: Learning Fate systems from a D20 background

My history is rather linear, and mostly relies on traditional d20 systems (D&D Original, AD&D, 3.5 and Rolemaster, Champions) and I am interested in learning some of the other systems that are a bit less regimented. I have had the Fate system briefly explained to me, and I am interested in learn...

fate-core

MadMAxJr

Oh. We have a Q for that. Excellent.

Thank you, bookmarking that so I can show my players later.

BESW

@MadMAxJr That's actually a pretty complex version of Fate. One of the cool things about the engine is that it's very scalable.

MadMAxJr

Yeah. Still a tossup between using Core or Accelerated for our first jaunt.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Ive actually used and sometimes recommend dresden files as a bridge for D20 players into FATE

MadMAxJr

The emphasis on collaborative storytelling might help defuse some issues in my group.

BESW

20:37

Let me dig up my Doctor Who FAE characters for you to look at...

MadMAxJr

A few players got focused on level progression, 'I should have more gold than this by now', and character backgrounds that didn't really include anybody else or only their SO at the table...

Joshua Aslan Smith

Dresden has more complexity than vanilla fate or FAE and sometimes players used to that complexity can have it as a comfort blanket while they adjust to compels and whatnot

BESW

35

Q: Problems to look out for if you are a D&D group who play Fate for the first time?

Soon I will be hosting my first two games of Fate. One will be an intro-session with one GM and one player and the other will be a more serious gaming session with one GM and three players, which will probably contain multiple Fate sessions over the weekend. The group has a lot of experience pla...

dungeons-and-dragons fate system-introduction

MadMAxJr

Hey, another goodie.

BESW

Doctor Who PCs for Fate Accelerated.

(I'm the author of those, and of Sweetheart.)

MadMAxJr

20:39

I had almost lost faith in this site, but I recall there are indeed some helpful things here. Thank you.

BESW

14

Q: Is FATE a suitable system for a dungeon crawl?

I usually play and run campaigns of a story-based, narrative nature, and have long been drawn to the FATE system, although I have only recently had a chance to start looking at it in depth. I am about to start running a dungeon crawl game in a home-brewed setting, and was considering using FATE ...

fate

There's also a question about what sorts of stories Fate doesn't do well, but I can't track it down--which probably means it was deleted.

Here's something similar:

24

Q: How Fate games could go wrong and how to prevent that

I'm introducing a few of my friends to the Fate system, and we're using Fate Accelerated for a quick start. Reading answers for some questions on this site I found an interesting paragraph: One of the biggest, IMO, difficulties for traditional players is the proactive creativity that Fate bol...

fate fate-core fate-accelerated

Ah, here it is!

12

Q: What better not to use Fate Core for?

I've seen lots of praise about the Fate system, especially it's Fate Core implementation. Because of that I was thinking about which of my past campaigns could have been played in Fate instead of their native system for the benefit of the whole gaming group, smoother play and lower bookkeeping bu...

game-recommendation fate-core

MadMAxJr

That first one will be ideal for shaping the conversation for what my group should expect going from d20 to Fate.

BESW

The "More Fate Products" heading toward the bottom of this page includes a lot of free setting and adventure materials.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw I love your doctor who FAE examples

BESW

I highly recommend anything labelled "A World of Adventure."

Joshua Aslan Smith

20:46

@MadMAxJr whats that in response to?

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith Thank you. I worked very hard on them.

MadMAxJr

@JoshuaAslanSmith A number of things. Decline in chat, moving on of regulars, much of the site moderation being vote-to-close debates. Doesn't feel like the same site as it was a few years ago. Personal opinion, not so much facts.

BESW

@MadMAxJr Is there anything particular you're still hoping we can shed light on?

MadMAxJr

That covers most of the entry level topics I was looking for and in great detail.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MadMAxJr that is fine, was just wondering, I mean Im less active myself

MadMAxJr

20:51

I have one player that is resistant to change, so I wanted some preparation material before I tackle that one.

... The topic, not the player.

BESW

Hmm.

So, a few things that really tickled my players when we made the transition from D&D to Fate:

MadMAxJr

One complaint was that pre-written adventures didn't let them weave in any personal stories. They did, they just didn't like that they weren't all about them specifically. Fate looks like something where I can force the story building process to be more collaborative.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MadMAxJr why not both

BESW

The dice and modifiers both have smaller ranges. With a d20, your modifier often doesn't matter at all at lower levels, and the dice don't matter at higher levels.

MadMAxJr

This looks like it'll do great for players that are active and creative. Now I just need to figure out how to cater/assist the ones that tend to be quieter and more reactionary.

BESW

20:54

You can invent your own mechanics within clear but flexible guidelines.

@MadMAxJr ...yes, this will be a thing you notice, especially if as the GM you create spaces for it.

I like to make mysteries and challenges that I don't know the solution to, and encourage players to tell me what they find when they roll Notice and so forth.

Atomic Robo RPG has a "brainstorming" mechanic for formalising the GM answering "What's going on?" with "I dunno, you guys figure it out and tell me."

MadMAxJr

@BESW This is something I enjoy with my current party. I had to figure out reactions to creative solutions in Pathfinder that pre-written adventures didn't quite plan for. A system with a little more flexibility might reward them better for this.

BESW

Even without that, character aspects that tell us how they're tied into the world will naturally make stories about the characters as the group invokes and compels their connections to things.

MadMAxJr

I'll finish my cover to cover read of Core tonight or tomorrow and start brainstorming adventure ideas.

BESW

@MadMAxJr I do recommend you glance at the Worlds of Adventure.

My group is loving Umdaar, which is an homage to laser fantasy like Thundercats, He-Man, and Flash Gordon.

MadMAxJr

I was looking at the EvilHat kickstarter for Fate stuff that's currently open too.

BESW

20:58

Fate More? Yeah, there's some good stuff in that. The Worlds of Adventure are smaller and easier to kick into right off, though.

MadMAxJr

This line here: Worrying about character optimization - In Fate, it is usually better to make interesting choices in character creation than optimal ones.

I want my players to embrace this.

Captain interesting, not Captain oneshot.

BESW

It can take a while for people to figure it out, but interesting choices are optimal in Fate.

4

MadMAxJr

I actually thought about making them play a round of Microscope to build our new setting collaboratively, so we can finally play something we can say everybody had a chance to contribute to.

BESW

That'd be cool.

I haven't done it myself, but I've heard good things come from that strategy.

My current game setting came out of a collective brainstorm.

Here are some FAE villains I designed for an Umdaar game.

@MadMAxJr Quieter/more reactionary players. Example?

MadMAxJr

A player that's at the table that is the SO of another player. They play fairly, but mostly react or follow other players rather than directly speak up. They tend to wait for 'what are you doing?' Not looking to turn them into an extrovert leader or anything, just making sure I don't leave them out on an 'everyone contributes' kind of game.

BESW

21:08

Spotlight management is, I find, easier in Fate but requires a bit more work. If that makes sense.

MadMAxJr

Minor issue from the PF game I buried with them. A few tended to grab that spotlight and refuse to give it up.

Less a system issue and more a personality management issue.

BESW

Fate specifically expects the GM to turn to other players and ask, "What do you think?"

MadMAxJr

I'll have to see how she reacts to it and adjust accordingly

BESW

Even if their PC isn't in the scene, every player can actively participate in the meta-level "Figure out what's cool" discussions.

But if she wants to be a follower, Fate can make that cool too!

MadMAxJr

Excellent.

BESW

21:12

> Loyal minion. When following an order from your Master that puts you in danger, you get +1 to any roll you make.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW gold star for narrative RPG excellence

MadMAxJr

Every roll has an outcome. I like this idea.

Not just roll till someone beats the DC

BESW

> Cheering Squad. When you use Rapport to create an advantage by boosting someone's confidence, you get an extra free invoke.

@MadMAxJr Yes! Every roll should change the "landscape" of the scene, even if in a small way.

Here's another of my PCs. She has this stunt:

> Gearhead savant. Once per scene when using Vehicles to overcome a mechanical problem, you can create a boost representing an unrelated feature you added to the device--whether you succeed on the overcome action or not.

Joshua Aslan Smith

tip from dungeonworld that also applies to fate, PCs already start competent, If what they are doing isn't being opposed by someone, rushed for time, or extremely difficult it should just occur, doubly so if there is no dramatic blade of Damocles hanging over it.

MadMAxJr

Dungeonworld is up on bundle of holding currently, isn't it?

BESW

21:20

@JoshuaAslanSmith Yup! Another cool thing: you don't have to start by fighting rats. PCs are awesome out of the gate, and failure is okay, and numbers are a little abstract. This means it's fine to throw awesome-cool challenges at first-session PCs.

@MadMAxJr Yup.

Tabletop games on Kickstarter brought in more than $84.6 MILLION in 2015 (over 2x video games' funds) https://t.co/lvhegleguk

Tweeted by 425suzanne on January 15, 2016 at 2:26 PM

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MadMAxJr dungeon world ebook/pdf is 10 bucks normally so thats worth it for that, Ive found 3rd party content for it to be incredibly all over the place in terms of quality

everything in the dungeonworld bundle is made by not the people who made dungeon world since it too is under the license of its sire apocalypse world anyone can make and sell products for it which is great, but yeah hit or miss, still if you are interested Id pick it up for the price reduction alone

MadMAxJr

For a given game, I usually stick to 'first party' content when possible.

BESW

I'm not entirely in love with the Apocalypse World Engine; a lot of the things it's trying to do mechanically overlap with things I already just do, so it adds complexity without adding quality.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MadMAxJr I concur, but to be fair DW as a system is 3rd party content technically

MadMAxJr

Mostly just curious to pick up and read to see how it does things different.

I've hugged d20 based games since the day we put 2nd edition AD&D down for 3.0. I'm kinda tired of it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

21:25

I think DW is really great alone for the way it handles adjudication and GM prep and planning systematically and creatively

@MadMAxJr I actually usually recommend it as a way to get D&D players into narrative based gameplay

MadMAxJr

d20, I'm not saying this is a divorce, but we should try other games.

Joshua Aslan Smith

aesthetically it is very similar to d20 systems, but the actual flow of play is very similar to something like fate

MadMAxJr

I'm all for focusing on excitement over cool story developments over 'you rolled a 20!'

And I have an end of week meeting to attend. Thanks for the info.

BESW

@MadMAxJr If you want to try a variety of other systems, we can recommend free simple-to-learn systems that'd only take a session or two to try out.

Joshua Aslan Smith

yep toats on that

trogdor

22:02

@Derpy I most certainly would not mind having one of those

but it also isn't some kind of high priority

XD

MadMAxJr

22:13

@BESW Thanks, Fate seems to be the main contender right now. Got the books, put a few dollars in their pay-what-you-want bucket. If it doesn't seem viable, I'll move on to another in two weeks time.

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