TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:11

@Problematic [wave]

Problematic

[wave]

BESW

Long time no Stack. What's new?

Problematic

@BESW Oh, you know. Plotting to kill my players and overthrow the world. More of the same.

4

BESW

Oh, you.

...We're oddly quiet this morning.

Here, have some magic item cards from 1920s cigarette packs.

Problematic

Ah yes, "grotesque figure." My favorite magic item!

BESW

00:19

"With free casual racism!"

BESW

00:36

NPC streamlining: Rating the four Fate actions themselves.

Shalvenay

01:13

@BESW -- Stack-y question: when doing tag cleanup, is there a rule of thumb for how many edits I should make in one go and/or how often I should be doing edit passes?

BESW

01:29

Define tag cleanup.

Shalvenay

01:44

@BESW retagging questions

BESW

Under what circumstances?

Shalvenay

01:56

@BESW taking a tag pair out of circulation and replacing it with a single combined tag that better expresses what the OP was trying to get at

doppelgreener

if you're doing that to a large enough number of questions that you might have to pace yourself out, you should probably be checking your course of action with meta

(assuming there's a pattern to the clean-up: if it's just a series of totally unrelated edits, no need to check with meta)

doppelgreener

02:12

or to be more specific: if you're doing clean-ups that suit the way we already use tags (like how we've already discussed gm is almost always rubbish and needs scouring), no need to check meta. if you've decided our overall practices need changing - better to check with meta than go gung-ho and change how those tags are used full stop.

i bring this up because that sounds like it may be a change in practice of handling those two tags, but it doesn't sound like something we've had a discussion on

@Shalv Since BESW seems like he might be AFK - I tend to limit things to like five at a time, maybe a bit more if I'm very close to done anyway, and wait for those edits to flow to the bottom of the page before doing more edits. Our site has been pretty resilient to new stuff getting shoved off the front page during past enormous edit efforts, since new stuff still got answers and votes, but we should avoid shoving it off if we can.

On a separate note, David Bowie's last album is beautiful. T_T

2

Tritium21

02:33

what do you do for questions that have obsolete and replaced answers? do...you downvote the obsolete answer? flag it?

ex: in 2014 the question was asked if there was an srd for 5e. there was not then. there is now

Shalvenay

02:54

@Tritium21 I've actually seen obsolete answers edited in other situations -- but that was because there were people for which the old answer was still relevant

@doppelgreener ah.

@doppelgreener I've been cherry-picking a few at a time on DIY, but there are 2 or 3 folks chewing on the same tagging problem at once now :p

Tritium21

@Shalvenay In this case, a new answer was posted

Shalvenay

@Tritium21 ah

just downvote the old one

doppelgreener

@Tritium21 good question for meta, since we're sure to have that come up in the coming days.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 you about?

doppelgreener

For now I'd just downvote it on account of it being wrong 8)

nitsua60

02:57

@Shalvenay I am, but haven't had any time to think about r20 today. (We had a school lockdown this evening--ended up just being a drill, nothing wrong--which ended up with me having the entire dance team at my house for dinner. My kids were stoked, but my wife and I were scrambling to feed seventeen people on no warning, to say the least!)

Still working, as a matter of fact--hoping to be able to call 11pm "quitting-time."

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 zoinks

@nitsua60 try for tomorrow?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay could work. Got a minute to pre-game it over in the back room?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 sure

doppelgreener

03:18

@Shalvenay so this is about a site other than rpg.se?

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener that was actually -- but their chatroom is way asynchronous, so I just wanted an indicator of general STack convention, which is what you gave :) so NBD

doppelgreener

in general: edit little enough that you cause minimal disturbance to new activity and new questions making it to front page and getting noticed, but enough that you can get the thing done in a realistic time frame.

nitsua60

03:46

@Miniman that "shock" bow, can I make sure I've got my head wrapped around the thing? He's basically asking after a bow that lets his fighter Hold Person, with a slightly lower (expected) save DC, except it costs an arrow rather than a 2nd-level spell slot. That sound about right?

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 he's already got a bow, is observing it's OP, and wants our feedback on whether he's right or if he's nuts

(if we're talking about this)

nitsua60

@doppelgreener right. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how powerful that bow sounds....

doppelgreener

oh, and asking how to make it balanced i guess

GLaDOS's "nice job breaking it, hero" comes to mind

nitsua60

I guess I'm asking if Hold Person sounds like the closest comparand--it's what I first thought of

doppelgreener

@BESW or @trogdor, I think you may be able to answer this based on your group's own experience: how do you quickly create a newcomer's character without it taking too long? The answer I'm imagining based on your group's experiences would be a "do this instead". It's a dnd-5e question though, so up to you if you want to answer.

nitsua60

03:52

I'm going with (a) pregens, and (b) after the fact modifications

Adeptus

04:03

@nitsua60 If I'm reading your answer right, you're saying that AL lets you change almost anything about your character up to level 4?

nitsua60

yeah I'm going to link in the ALPG now. (I have all these pdfs saved, so I have to go searching for a link after I've referenced whatever's in them.)

@Adeptus media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/ALPGv3_print.pdf p.7, "Character Rebuilding"

Adeptus

> A player cannot change a character’s name, but can rebuild
the character using any other rules options available for that
character’s story origin.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 that is the thing that BESW and Trogdor did, so I guess that has it covered :)

Adeptus

"I'm no longer Bob the human paladin, I'm now Bob the Dragonborn bard!"

doppelgreener

they had some simple low-maintenance easy-to-understand character options and were just like "here, pick one of these"

or "you're this guy"

nitsua60

04:10

@Adeptus yup. Exactly.

BESW

Adeptus

@BESW Wouldn't that count as a change of name? :P

BESW

@Adeptus Exactly.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener I really like the one-page presentation that the pregens on WotC have for new players

Miniman

@nitsua60 It's probably the most horrifying piece of homebrew I've ever seen.

And roll for DC is just...wtf I don't even...

nitsua60

04:18

@Miniman yeah, that's bizzare

@Miniman I suppose, not so horrifying if you're the one holding it....

Miniman

Wait, he deleted it.

nitsua60

I guess the thing is, he admits to being new and coming from CRPG. He made an on-the-fly decision to implement something, and is realizing it may be badly constructed. So how to gently help him realize what the context is, and how powerful the thing is. (And what to do about it.)

@Miniman or nevermind

doppelgreener

(10k link to the shock bow question)

BESW

"The Shock Bow Question" would be a good name for a Sherlock Holmes mystery.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener If you feel like upvoting sixty of my answers and one question, I can look =D

doppelgreener

04:21

@BESW Yes it would be!

nitsua60

"BESW" would be a good name for someone who's job was naming things =)

(but I'll also second TSBQ as a good SH name)

night, all

trogdor

04:45

@doppelgreener seeing as it is 5E, I am not really sure I can contribute very much on that one

the 4E one you linked earlier was still great though

it's actually my highest up-voted answer now XD

doppelgreener

05:47

@trogdor oh, nice :D

doppelgreener

05:57

@nitsua60 BESW Establishes Suitable Wording.

@nitsua60 BESW Elects Sobriquets Wittily.

Adeptus

Oh no, it's a self-referential acronym! You'll create a recursion loop! You've doomed us all!

doppelgreener

@Adeptus It's okay, it's only going to doom those of us who are not sufficiently advanced AIs to be self-aware of the loop.

Adeptus

Oh, good... I think

doppelgreener

@Smurfton Hi! Your moustache is looking particularly dapper today.

@Adeptus Centuries from now a borg might capture an errant satellite signal, read it, and wipe out its entire civilisation as it engages more and more processing power to understand the acronym.

Smurfton

Hi doppel! Why thank you.

BESW

06:10

@Adeptus UNITY's Nice, I Tell You.

@Smurfton [wave]

Smurfton

Skin-Horse is fabulous

Hi @BESW

BESW

@Smurfton Have you seen my Atomic Robo version of Sweetheart?

Smurfton

NO

doppelgreener

@Smurfton ... what about now?

Smurfton

Nothing on reality blindness?

Doesn't that count as a weakness?

:(

BESW

06:13

Our setting doesn't really do reality blindness.

We thought the struggle to maintain the veil would be more interesting.

Smurfton

Well, that's fair enough

I always feel like Sweetheart's full name is longer

BESW

Captain's F. V. Sweetheart is long enough.

I've only run her for one session; she was checking on the welfare of a plant raised to humanoid form and sapience, who was @doppelgreener's PC.

(Reminder, @doppelgreener: Sweetheart gave Stellata her card and is willing to help out if she needs anything. This may be relevant soon.)

doppelgreener

@BESW I remember! Thanks for that.

I should note that on her sheet.

BESW

Sweetheart was a lot of fun to play.

doppelgreener

I have noted the card on Stellata's sheet.

@BESW I have a new RPG I'd like to try sometime: Tianxia: Blood, Silk & Jade. It's a wuxia RPG for Fate Core, and it comes with an Accelerated variant (more or less a translation guide). A friend of mine has enjoyed it, but hasn't tried it in Accelerated.

BESW

06:31

I have the original.

doppelgreener

I have this copy, as of last night.

BESW

Picked it up in a bundle.

doppelgreener

Nice.

Was there a previous version before this one? Or do you mean the original printing of this one?

BESW

I mean the Core version, not the Accelerated hack.

I haven't read it though.

I suspect @trogdor would be happy to explore it.

doppelgreener

@trogdor Wuxia! Chi powers! Martial arts styles! Wandering warriors!

trogdor

07:30

eh eh eh?

I have no argument against these things

@doppelgreener yeah BESW mentioned this before

it sounds pretty cool

BESW

So, @doppelgreener, if you ever want to run some Tianxia, I think we're down with it.

Maybe add it to the Games We'd Like to Like list so we don't forget it.

trogdor

07:48

yeah, because apparently we did forget it once already XD

or I did at least

BESW

Slipped my mind too.

doppelgreener

@BESW I've added it. :)

BESW

Thanks.

Mention it in Skype or at the game this weekend, but I don't expect any problems. We'll run it whenever you like.

ArcherGodson

08:36

@BESW Hi )

BESW

[wave]

What's new?

ArcherGodson

I saw a stream yesterday: How to install proxmox on a proxmox guest

entertaining ))

It's a virtual machine inside a virtual machine

BESW

Sounds amusingly recursive.

ArcherGodson

09:29

Yes

BESW

12:20

Interesting. Tianxia suggests using swingier curves than Fudge dice normally provide.

trogdor

does it give a particular reason?

I mean, personally I like having a less swing-y curve

its one of the things I liked straight away when switching from 4E to Fate

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh, what's this? I mustn't have read that bit yet.

BESW

They suggest 1d6-1d6 (-5 to +5) or 1d8-1d8 (-7 to +7), because "This creates a slightly wider range of results than the default Fudge dice. Tianxia works very well with this variant because that is not necessarily a bad thing. Characters in wuxia and Kung Fu stories tend to have some pretty dramatic ups and downs; more range in die results could help emulate that."

(They note that using d8s is a bit extreme, but d6s hit a sweet spot.)

> [using d8s] nearly doubles the range of traditional Fate rules and will result in characters capable of doing amazing things but able to get taken out of a fight by a lucky shot from a lesser foe. While not generally recommended, this is presented as an option for those who want games with wildly variable results.

@doppelgreener Page 58.

doppelgreener

@BESW Thanks! (There's a lot I haven't read in it yet, I only found this thing last night and was largely reading the Accelerated hack.)

BESW

I'm skipping most of the flavour and going straight for the crunch.

And only in bits and bursts between other things.

trogdor

12:45

hmm

I suppose it makes some thematic sense

but I think that cuts it out in my mind as a long form option

I could be mistaken

but at the moment that leaves me thinking I would still prefer ARRPG over it in a long form game

doppelgreener

I wasn't suggesting it for anything long form, but I don't see why a 1d6-1d6 roll should cut that out

BESW

From what I'm seeing, the hack does increase randomness, but it also gives a lot more opportunities to be awesome in spite of that.

trogdor

@doppelgreener it isn't an automatic thing to be sure

BESW

For example, anyone with Chi +1 or better gets a free action at the start of each scene to create the advantage Chi Armor, which can be used to get armor:2 instead of +2 to rolls.

doppelgreener

13:02

@BESW It seems to not recommend that over Fudge Dice, but says that hey, if you don't have those or want to use them, use this instead, we recommend 1d6-1d6.

BESW

"Tianxia works very well with this variant." Emphasis mine.

trogdor

is that 1d6 minus 1d6?

doppelgreener

@trogdor yes

trogdor

huh

that is an even more strange substitution than I thought

but it also means the variance is a little less than I was thinking

doppelgreener

@BESW No, I get this, I'm responding pointing out they're not saying "Hey, this is our default" or "use this, it's better than fudge dice". I'm also pointing this out because Trogdor's put off by the thought of 1d6-1d6, so I thought I would point out it's not their primary roll mechanic but an option.

trogdor

13:04

not by much, but still

@doppelgreener we cab still try it

BESW

Comparison of Fudge dice curve to 1d6-1d6 and 1d8-1d8 curves.

trogdor

if I end up not liking it as little as I think I will After using it that will be a confirmation

as of now it is only a concern on my part

it isn't me saying I am 100% sure I would hate it

doppelgreener

@BESW i think that is not the link you are looking for (there's no 1d8 in there)

okay cool yes please don't judge it based on it endorsing a different possibility for dice rolls, that sucked to read D':

we play loads of systems with loads of different dice rolling mechanics

trogdor

@doppelgreener sorry, that is not how I intended it to sound

doppelgreener

this one is different to fate core or atomic robo, but that's the point - it does different things that look fun, hence why i mentioned it. i think we'd get a kick out of it, if the rubber hits the road well.

trogdor

13:07

I was just trying to voice a concern on my part

Aaron

Morning

trogdor

:(

morning

doppelgreener

@trogdor i getcha. it sounded really un-good to me, like a sort of "... i'm unwilling to try more than one session of this suddenly"

trogdor

@doppelgreener that is not the case

in point of fact, I am actually excited for that first session, but I am apprehensive as well

doppelgreener

@BESW On your Crunch Quest you saw the Chi skill, right?

BESW

13:10

Aye.

doppelgreener

@trogdor ok, well, i can handle this then. thanks. :)

that's much better xD

mxyzplk

I'll note Feng Shui, a good and popular game in that same genre, uses the d6-d6 mechanic.

doppelgreener

@mxyzplk I've heard good things about Feng Shui!

trogdor

@doppelgreener change is not a bad thing, but some games we have played (mostly before you were part of our group I think) had huge problems due to really small mechanical issues

mxyzplk

And that for most fate I use d6-d6 because... fudge dice, how precious.

@doppelgreener One of my fave games ever. Just got the second edition.

trogdor

13:12

so my fear is largely based off of being scared that one change like that could ruin something good

in My Life With Master, as the worst/best example I can remember right now, there seemed to be some problem with the way the endgame was supposed to work

doppelgreener

@trogdor ah, right, well for me that's about limited to DFRPG's treatment of elementalists & mantle ranks, and the fact some of us had an issue with MOTW.

trogdor

at the start I was really liking MLWM, but eventually this small mechanical thing really ruined my experience with it

basically, said mechanic, whether a typo or whatever it was, seemed either accidentally or purposefully designed to prolong the game at the endgame, or possibly stop the game in its tracks entirely, even though one of the stated goals was for the PC's to win a fight with the Master and defeat him/her

and end the game that way

it was really weird and contradictory, and it was a huge problem, but it resulted from just one line of text

that being said, I seriously doubt this would even close to measure up to that even if I do end up disliking it at all

I just want you to know that I have a weird sort of basis for being worried about this,... maybe I just looked at it in the wrong light or something, but I don't by any means want to just write this off and not try out this cool looking system

I have concerns but they do not outweigh my excitement or my willingness to try out new things

and the only way for me to actually know how many more games of this I would want is to have the first one

and I will probably like it

TLDR this was never me saying "I suddenly don't want to try this" or anything even close to that

:)

anyway, I stayed up a little late last night and it is decently late now, so I gotta get some sleep

doppelgreener

13:32

@trogdor Goodnight!!! (I went afk)

@mxyzplk Feng Shui's been on my radar for a while (except when I've forgotten about it), I'll check it out someday. I'm keen to try Tianxia on account of wanting to do something in particular with it if it works out.

@trogdor thanks for writing all that, i understand a bit better now. i remember BESW's question about the MLWM issue ("my players grow weary of the endless endgame")

Polyducks

14:04

@eimyr haha through roll20 of course ;)

eimyr

20:58

@Polyducks either would be fine :)

Pixie

21:43

I started converting an old M&M character into an OVA character. It isn't 100% satisfying yet. My M&M character might be a magnitude of power higher than the average OVA char, comparing them. If I were using "zero" style balance, as is common, she'd have to have quite a few weaknesses. I'm not sure I like that type of balance at all. There are alternate methods of character balance for OVA too, but they kind of gloss over them. But character creation is serviceable and fairly quick.

trogdor

ah, so you have tried it out?

Pixie

Not playing, but just seeing how Misty would look as a character.

(Not the one from Pokemon. :P)

trogdor

from what?

Pixie

An OC that I created for an M&M one shot I played in. She's a magical girl witch (a shocker I'm sure :P) so I thought she'd be ideal.

trogdor

ah ok so she isn't from a thing

XD

Pixie

21:50

But it was a fairly high powered M&M game, so it took a lot of abilities to get something close.

In OVA, I mean.

trogdor

I can imagine

I saw some really hilariously powerful abilities in that system, just randomly generating them

Pixie

I think OVA can work for high powered characters, but the zero balance isn't great for them. What that means is you want to get your points spent on abilities to equal about 0, +/-5.

trogdor

so OVA sort of requires taking flaws and stuff if you want to make super powerful characters?

Pixie

If you're using that option. By default, you just take whatever abilities you want. There are 3 suggested methods to limit characters, and that's the one I see people use most.

trogdor

ah ok

one of the things I like about ARRPG is that you can sort of just make as many stunts as you want, but if you make over 5 stunts worth of stuff the GM gets extra fate points for them

of course, the problem comes if said GM can't spend them all

so it still isn't exactly perfectly balanced in some scenarios

Pixie

21:59

I'm more interested in the "power ceiling" where the GM sets the amount of skill points that can be spent, but there's no examples of how many points works well. Would take experimentation on my end.

Gotta run, but later I'll finish up Misty and post both versions of her if you want to see them.

trogdor

mk

I certainly would not mind seeing that

as an example and comparison

BESW

22:28

We got superheroes, flying pilgrims, and government superspies so far. How about some young Centurions too? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/fate-more-from-bits-to-books/posts/1464583

Tweeted by EvilHatOfficial on January 13, 2016 at 3:10 PM

**Cool RPG stuff:** [Bundle of Holding](http://bundleofholding.com "buy RPGs cheap in bulk, support charities & indie designers!");
[Fate More: From Bits to Books](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/fate-more-from-bits-to-books?ref=fredtweet "Help Evil Hat expand its Fate Core line");
[D&D 5e OGL & SRD](http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/systems-reference-document-srd "Albuquerque. Snorkel.");
[Dreamscarred Press hath a Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/dreamscarred "Expanding the options for table-top roleplaying games");

BESW

23:03

Evil Hat is planning to Kickstart a Dresden Files cooperative card game.

@Pixie That sounds like a good mainsite question?

trogdor

if anyone here can answer it at least

not to say it is impossible or anything

Shalvenay

23:18

hey @nitsua60

Adeptus

23:38

@BESW I don't get the "Albuquerque. Snorkel." comment?

BESW

And I didn't think anyone actually read the tooltips!

Problematic

I wouldn't have noticed except for your edit there.

BESW

(It's a line from early in the film National Treasure.)

(The scene is a parody of Sherlockian/Brownian deduction where the protagonist arrives at ridiculous conclusions from minimal evidence; his sidekick says "Albuquerque. I can do it too. Snorkel." In context here, I typed "D&D 5e OGL & SRD" and was amused by the gibberish.)

Adeptus

@BESW Oh right :) I've watched National Treasure several times, but didn't recognize the (partial) quote out of context

BESW

Sometimes I just throw stuff like that in to amuse myself.

Pixie

23:47

@BESW Perhaps so. I'll think about how to formulate it when I get home.

Adeptus

@BESW In National Treasure, I like the way that his Sherlockian logic doesn't always work first time, and he needs to take a different train of thought to get to the answer.

BESW

It's always tragically hilarious when an open parody does a better job of playing a thing straight than what it's parodying.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hey

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

BESW

A secret society of philosophers imagine a bird's nest into existence.

Tweeted by MagicRealismBot on January 13, 2016 at 11:09 PM

nitsua60

23:53

@Shalvenay just starting the whole bath->books->bed landing-approach with the kids.... Hoping to be done ca. 9EDT so we can hop on r20.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 nods alrighty then

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