TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

00:49

hey there @Pureferret

Sandwich

03:04

Whooooo

Whoooooooo

Shalvenay

03:51

so...does anyone have any suggestions as to reading Mage: the Ascention (or any other WW rulebook) without being suffocated in the tone of their writing?

(I tried reading that rulebook once, and ick it was a mess -- I had to put it down)

Tritium21

09:30

@Shalvenay Skip any section without a table or a system callout, and skip any italicized text

I have played white wolf/onyx path games for 15 years and never once read any of the fiction.

Pureferret

10:21

@Tritium21 as much as I'd like to read it this is how I feel too.

eimyr

10:51

@Shalvenay Mage: Ascension - I can't say for the new M20 version, but the old one you need to read twice

@Shalvenay First, just read the introduction, then character design bits, get to know the system. Then read the whole thing as it was intended - you will not remember 50% of the writing, but it will be there lodged somewhere in you brain, giving you a "feel" of the world so that you can make stuff up on the spot and still be consistent.

DuckTapeAl

@Shalvenay Having had many conversations with you over the past few months my advice regarding White Wolf is to put the book down and run far away. :P

I think it'll be very frustratingly vague for you.

So, I just took a look at the list of magic items in 5e, and I'm actually slack-jawed.

Whoever designed this item list left a trap.

If you roll well on the item table from challenge 11-20, you can roll on table I.

#81 on table I is the deck of many things.

At first I thought, "oh, this must be some kind of 'deck without the fangs' thing, where it's just a fun an interesting item and not a campaign-eater.

Nope. It's the real deal. Roughly 1 in every 1000 loot rolls past Challenge 11 give you a tool to trivially end a campaign setting.

eimyr

11:11

@DuckTapeAl isn't vagueness part of the setting though?

DuckTapeAl

The mechanics, too.

White Wolf mechanics are intentionally vague and rulings-based, because the goal is to empower the Storyteller above all else.

For example: in oWoD Mage, there were giant threads all over the internet about what counted as vulgar magic. The book gave no real examples, and it was treated totally differently by basically every group.

eimyr

yep

I liked it. It gave you leeway to do stuff your way. I know a lot of people were complaining about it, but I never saw it as a problem.

DuckTapeAl

Ah, knew we had a question about it:

54

Q: What is the "whiskey flask" problem with Paradox?

So, I've just read @Jadasc's eye-opening (+1) answer to @Flamma's question Where does the Transform Vampires/Werewolves into lawn furniture rote come from? (+1). At the end of his answer, Jadasc mentions an obscure reference to the "whiskey flask" problem with Paradox, which, according to the num...

eimyr

I remember, also, the famous Turn The Vampire Into Lawnchair problem.

DuckTapeAl

@eimyr And that's totally fine! I have no problem with other people having fun with a system I find intolerable. :P

32

Q: Where does the Transform Vampires/Werewolves into lawn furniture rote come from?

I remember the 90s when Mage players would tell Vampire players that a Mage can very easily transform a Vampire or Werewolf into lawn chairs, and that they could get quite a good collection. I didn't know much about Mage those days, and I always supposed that was covered in some supplement. Thes...

old-world-of-darkness history-of-gaming mage-the-ascension

eimyr

11:16

I found imbalance in relative "power" of certain mechanics much more obstructive.

DuckTapeAl

That too.

eimyr

e.g. Dexterity Is God or On The Micro Level, Everything Is Forces

DuckTapeAl

Basically, it felt like the WW designers just didn't care about making a balanced game. They had a cool setting with some interesting twists, but all the WW games that I know of have serious mechanical issues.

eimyr

Yeah, hence M20.

DuckTapeAl

Which one is that? I don't think I've heard of it.

eimyr

11:19

I recently pondered that a derivative of Fate would be vastly superior for this setting than any Storyteller/Storytelling system.

Oh, 20th Anniversary line.

DuckTapeAl

Is that Awakening?

Or a different thing?

@eimyr Oh, definitely.

BESW

Feb 7 '13 at 16:56, by Lord_Gareth

Well, keep in mind @SimonGill, and I am sad to say that I have this from the designers, that they were all deeply and completely stoned and high for oWoD

2

eimyr

Published by OPP, it's a remake of oWoD (Masquerade, Apocalypse, Ascension etc.) with setting progressed to 2010's and mechanics revisited to mitigate imbalances and contradictions.

DuckTapeAl

Oh, cool.

eimyr

They also trawled through the entire publication history to edit and re-publish under WoD20 line, but this time in a coherent, planned manner, to remove interdependencies, contradiction and obvious mistakes.

I am VERY happy with what they did to Vampire in 20th Anniversary line.

E.g. Celerity is now balanced by intense blood drain, Domination affects current willpower (and everyone can attempt to resist) and Thaumaturgy requires insane Skill investment (reflecting necessary research).

Mage 20th Anniversary was just published last week. I didn't have a chance to see it yet.

eimyr

11:41

@BESW I won't doubt they were high for one second. Remember that time when they decided Brujah are not real enough and created True Brujah all the while claiming that Tzimisce are infected with ALIEN AIDS FROM SPACE?

DuckTapeAl

@eimyr ...wut

BESW

No, I don't, but I'll take your word for it.

(Remember, I'm not a White Wolf expert?)

eimyr

The book was called Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand. It was so ridiculous even WW retconned it out of existence after they sobered up.

whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Dirty_Secrets_of_the_Black_Hand

Yes, @BESW, I get it now. I'm still looking for the actual WW guy.

DuckTapeAl

Isn't that Jadasc?

eimyr

No, I thinking a WW enthusiast, not a collaborator.

I might have confused the websites. Doesn't matter now that the issue is explained.

DuckTapeAl

11:47

So, I just ran some numbers on the 5e DoMT. Turns out that, on the 13-card version, you have a 48% chance of getting reasonably screwed by a draw. In the 22-card version, it's 45%

With an 8% and 4.5% chance, repsectively, of drawing Skull, which is either a trivial encounter or a campaign-setting eater.

God, I hate that item.

doppelgreener

12:34

@DuckTapeAl D&D 5e community errata: strike out #81 on loot table I permanently. Write "a mithril shovel" on there instead.

Tom Sterkenburg

12:48

Trying my first campaign creation and DM session in one go. Real quick question, do people like on-rails roller coaster dungeons?

BESW

Really depends on the folks you're playing with.

Oblivious Sage

Some people love it, some people hate it

BESW

Best thing to do is ask the group if they know whether they have a preference.

Tom Sterkenburg

mmmm good enough for me

BESW

Let us know how it turns out!

Oblivious Sage

12:49

Have you run the group through the Same Page Tool?

Tom Sterkenburg

nope

Ill take a gander later, i gotta take off

Oblivious Sage

good luck!

BESW

ttfn

Tom Sterkenburg

was expecting slower answers and was gonna check back later lol

lisardggY

19:04

Speaking as a theoretical potential audience, would you go to a convention event involving public big-screen deadEarth character creation?

lisardggY

19:22

My main concern is flipping to the relevant radmans live and on-screen. The thing to do is reformat them as instantly-searchable HTML, but that would involve copy-pasting 1000 radmans into the new format.

Then again, I have between 6 and 12 months to do so, until the next relevant convention.

Depending on if I go to the April con.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener LOL @ the mithril shovel. makes me wonder what a modern metallurgist would find if he was handed an ingot (or three) of the stuff and put it through the usual battery of physical tests (tensile strength, impact resistance, hardness, etal)

Oblivious Sage

@Shalvenay Mithril is probably just tungsten that magically weighs half as much.

Zachiel

19:50

@IronHeart confirmed. tying metamagic rods to my belt makes it so I can drop them as a free action and not lose them on the ground, but I still have to use the movement/AoO action to pick them up from the ground to hold them again.

@doppelgreener what was #81?

@DuckTapeAl I've asked how it's ruled in my game, in the post for Iron Heart a few lines above is what they told me.

DuckTapeAl

20:31

I was griping about it a little before his message. 81 is the Deck of Many Things.

Zachiel

@DuckTapeAl uuuuh ok ok seconded

The Oracle

22:04

0

Q: When should I comment?

I am looking for an expanded and explained explanation of when I should and should not comment. I keep being told to stop posting inappropriate comments, and being pointed to explanations of what is appropriate. But I have read everything available, and am very careful with what I write so that ...

discussion comments

Shalvenay

23:02

am I correct in saying that the Forgotten Realms setting was designed for set-piece campaign work?

(because I think the explanation of "why monstrous races?" stems from that right there, if it's true)

Sandwich

Forgotten Realms is very much a very large set piece yes

Most of the locations in the world are well fleshed out (Including the locations of dragons)

Shalvenay

nods yeah -- then the monstrous races originate from the need for universe-wide, set-piece enemies as cults and bandit-gangs are seen as too much work for the return on author investment they bring

Sandwich

23:22

Well the Red Wizards of Thay are a pretty big thing in Forgotten Realms

So are the Icewind Dale Barbarians

And pretty much every civilized part of the Underdark is filled with Smirvfneblin, Duergar, and Drow

Everywhere else is filled with level 5 danger beasts

BESW

@lisardggY I'd probably need something more than just "hey, deadEarth chargen" to pull me in. Like, if it was being hosted by someone I knew could make it fun.

Sandwich

Live from Deadearth Chargen its Jooooohn Cenaaaaa

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