TRPG General Chat

BESW

09:00

It fits his job description.

eimyr

I'm asking because my players in Fate have a penchant for proposing changes that push the climate towards the "kingmaker/adventure" and away from "grey eminence plotting". Then they seem to be surprised when the climate has changed.

BESW

@eimyr My group works hard to have an open-table policy on this sort of thing. It's important that we feel comfortable speaking up when something isn't feeling right.

Sometimes it takes a little while to notice, and that's okay.

We can steer things back if it needs to be.

I was asked to retire a PC who felt too grimdark.

eimyr

@BESW I try to do that, but the guys don't seem to have a predictive ability to recognise that. E.g. they wanted to include peasant uprising from taxation (which basically says - the country is going to shit quickly) and still expected to have a plotting in a peaceful undisturbed court situation.

BESW

By contrast the concepts in Trogdor's "demon dimension" session haven't really been revisited; I think nobody's quite sure how it fits into the world. We're okay with it being there, but we haven't yet found anything else to do with it.

trogdor

to be fair, it isn't like I meticulously crafted that session to be easily revisited with other people's ideas,.. I was kinda just trying to run a session

XD

and I had about a week of actual prep, if that

BESW

09:13

@eimyr Hmm.

That sounds like they're used to "disrupt and move on" plots.

eimyr

They are.

doppelgreener

@BESW Did you call Stellata a talkative Groot? XD

... I'm surprised by how accurate that is.

eimyr

One of them comes from DnD background, another plays a variety of dungeon crawls, yet another is fairly fresh to roleplay in general and the final one had experience with investigation/mystery themes

BESW

Do they know what they actually want and it's different but they're just having a hard time breaking murderhobo habits?

eimyr

They don't realise that establishing a world-changing fact changes the world.

doppelgreener

09:15

(... was Groot storing up all of his fate points until the confrontations in the ship?)

BESW

@doppelgreener He is Groot.

@eimyr This... is a difficult hurdle.

So, do they want to change the world sometimes, or are they happier in a status quo?

I guess the question is--are they against changing the world, or just having trouble figuring out what will and won't change the world so they're unpleasantly surprised by the changes they've wrought?

Zachiel

I just learned how Dexterity is "the god stat" of D&D 5e. I suddenly like 5e.

BESW

@Zachiel 3.5 is dead. Long live 3.5.

doppelgreener

I'm suddenly reminded of the season 2 finale of The Amazing World of Gumball. For the entire series, things tend to remain at status quo, no matter what happened during the ending. In the season 2 finale, the protagonists learn that their actions actually have real consequences. (This drives the entire episode.)

eimyr

@BESW We are still figuring out what is currently happening to the world at large. They know they want to have a plotfest, but they don't realise that "Peasants are revolting" and at the same time "King is universally despised" puts them in a position of establishing themselves as chancellor, king, interrex or whatever position of authority is available right from the start. And then they are surprised when I point that becoming a person in power is the END of the campaign, if at all.

Murch

09:19

Hey guys,
Maybe you can help me out here: I am interested in a Dungeon World Hack of Shadowrun. Apparently, there are at least three versions of it spread around. I'd like to ask what the differences between them are and which one is the most current. Since that is fairly obscure and not a published RPG, do you think it fits on the site? What tags would I use for it? [Shadowrun] and [DungeonWorld]?

Zachiel

@eimyr Do you immediately realize those changes? If I could, I would tell them "you realize this will change the mood of the game in these ways, and is maybe not a good idea for what you told me you wanted to play, yes?"

BESW

Classic Movie Line #50

►

eimyr

@Zachiel that's precisely what I do and they accept, but don't seem to stop with similar suggestions

@BESW I don't understand what "stinking on ice" mean

doppelgreener

@eimyr they stink.

eimyr

oh

doppelgreener

09:22

The joke is the french revolution is happening right then.

eimyr

oh

BESW

@eimyr Keeping food cold prevents it from rotting, and thus stinking. The king's saying the peasants smell so bad they stink even while cold.

eimyr

ooooh

BESW

Of course, @doppelgreener's provided the actual historical context which the king is ignoring.

eimyr

ooooooooh

double meaning of "revolting"

english is not my first language and such jokes sometimes elude me

doppelgreener

09:23

Eimyr is levelling up! Eimyr's Wits went up to 8! Eimyr's Speed went up to 9! Eimyr's Memes went up to 5!

eimyr

Eimyr is evolving!
...
...
...

SPArchaeologist

Quick! someone hold down the B button!

doppelgreener

[quietly refrains :D]

eimyr

Eimyr has evolved into Eimyr! Eimyr is trying to learn Language! Which of the moves would you like Eimyr to forget? >GMing >Tentacle Wrap >Sarcasm >Breathing

trogdor

but those are all so useful!

doppelgreener

09:28

>Breathing

The other 3 are keepers, we'll find workarounds for that one.

BESW

@doppelgreener Does he have Gills?

eimyr

Eimyr has HHNNNNNNGGGG...

BESW

[dumps @eimyr in water]

eimyr

Alright alright

So, what about the ideas my players have? Any suggestions?

BESW

Hmm.

It's hard to say from this distance.

eimyr

09:36

You never had a similar problem?

BESW

It's hard to diagnose what the problem actually is.

Also I'm kinda distracted by IRL stuff so I can't bring all my brain to bear on this thing.

eimyr

Yeah, I don't expect anyone to drop everything and solve it. Thanks anyways.

k, I'll be later

Miniman

@SPArchaeologist Sorry, was afk. Just wondering if it's possible (outside of 3rd party products) to upgrade Sharepoint version without losing version history on documents.

BESW

@eimyr If I get time I'll re-read and think.

Miniman

@Zachiel It's not so much "god stat" as "finally possible to base a non-magical character on a single stat".

Zachiel

09:46

@Miniman which is my favourite one, yay.

Miniman

@Zachiel It's not just Dex, you can make a Str-only character now too.

BESW

@Miniman I'm still a little baffled by all the "finally, you can [thing 4e did really well]" with 5e.

Miniman

@BESW Ouch, fair call. I think somewhere in my head I still view 5e as basically 3.75e.

Zachiel

@Miniman Aw. I wanted dex to be vastly superior. So I could make a dex based character and still be OP

@Miniman 2.75e you mean

Miniman

@Zachiel Nah, not in my head.

BESW

09:57

@Miniman Yeah, that's kinda how I see it too, except it's also 4-.25e.

SPArchaeologist

@Miniman Well, I must admit that I don't usually manage version upgrades (or at least, each time I got that task, it was because of specific issues) but as far as I know I would expect/hope that an upgrade done via DB attach would keep the history since it is the same db as before, just upgraded.

BESW

@Miniman To be entirely fair, that's the narrative Wizards pushed.

Miniman

@SPArchaeologist Sadly, apparently not. Googling, I've found a few bits and pieces of scripts, but nothing too promising.

SPArchaeologist

In the past I have done some migrations, but they used custom tools. And also involved running workflows.

BESW

10:25

Ask Lovecraft considers Cthulhu vs Galactus. Excelsior.

SPArchaeologist

@Miniman if it can be of some moral support for you... I have just discovered that a custom calendar definition will work perfectly except when you add an event with multiple recurrences unless the type id you have used for the list is exactly 106.

Miniman

@SPArchaeologist Yikes. I don't actually work with Sharepoint, I just needed to look into this one issue.

Sandwich

10:42

Two more votes till Populist! :D

Sandwich

10:58

@Miniman I've used sharepoint, its uh.. alright I suppose. For ticket management.

Do you guys think this image would be a good choice for a bit of a joke in the Black lotus answer:

BESW

Where would you add it? As a comment it's frivolous, as an embed in the answer it's not relephant enough to justify taking up the visual space. The only place it might be appropriate to add is as a text link, but I see no place in your answer which would organically permit it, so you'd have to add whole new lines just to shoehorn in a joke that's only vaguely relevant.

SPArchaeologist

Sandwich

Hahaha I forgot about Unhinged

Those cards were great

Yeah s'why I asked @BESW

BESW

11:21

Generally speaking, an image that's not a useful part of the answer should be a text link, if it's included at all. Otherwise it's just cluttering up the page like a chatty comment: something people have to scroll past to get to the useful bits, and not having "stuff to scroll past to get to the useful bits" is a major thing which separates SE from traditional forums.

SPArchaeologist

@Sandwich Blacker lotus was in the Unglued set, not in the Unhinged one :P

BESW

(In some Stacks, like SciFi, random images are an attempt to shore up a weak answer with pretty pictures to get people to upvote because they like the picture. I don't think we want our Stack to do that.)

Sandwich

I remember them both

doppelgreener

@BESW I enjoyed that. :D

BESW

Hmm. The Cool Stuff dropped off the pin list.

Sandwich

11:24

Ah man I'm ONE vote away from Populist, Curse you staaack

Curse you and your delicious shinies that I neeeed

doppelgreener

@BESW We included an image in an answer once, and it did pretty well. (It was topical and great, but also not necessary.) We received disagreement in comments over its presence, I removed it, there was a sharp drop-off in voting.

BESW

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[Kaiju Incorporated early preview drawing](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/122Jec8d_LojM53yzJzLosNpGzxHeoeeIgRCnoHT0dOs/viewform "Pacific Rim meets Wall Street");
[Uncanny Magazine 2](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lynnemthomas/uncanny-magazine-year-two "Return of the Space Unicorn");
[Numenera: Into the Ninth World](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/montecookgames/numenera-into-the-ninth-world "Venture farther. Explore deeper. Go beyond.");

Sandwich

Its shiny pokemon all over again

doppelgreener

And then my most highly voted answer here has an image. (The GM betrayal one.) COINCIDENCE??????????? (Not completely, the image is a vital part of its communication and is pretty effective if I say so myself, which I do.)

Sandwich

@doppelgreener My highest answer has an image too.

doppelgreener

11:27

@Sandwich That one is also very topical and makes a good point. XD

SPArchaeologist

Amateurs. My most voted question on Meta has.... Twily!

Sandwich

That's the one about the rules not saying that I cant eat your dog

doppelgreener

@SPArchaeologist Marvellous!

BESW

...I'm pretty sure I don't have any inline pictures in any of my posts at all.

Sandwich

What answer of yours has Twily?

SPArchaeologist

11:31

@Sandwich Unicorns, ponies, Winter Bash and haiku all in one post:P - and it is actually a question

doppelgreener

@SPArchaeologist That was a lovely haiku. (Been a while since I read one that wasn't 5/7/5)

Sandwich

I was under the impression that it was a different kind of japanese poem and not a haiku if it wasnt 5-7-5

BESW

Not... really...

SPArchaeologist

or you may just live with the fact that English is not my first language and I had some problems with the metrics.

BESW

I mean, taking a complex nuanced poetic form in one language, which has constraints on subject matter as well as syllable/line requirements, and keeping just the pronunciation-specific bits when trying to translate the poetic form into another language? Kinda silly.

I'm of the opinion that preserving exact syllable count is the least important part of moving a poem form from one language to another. It's just also the easiest to understand.

The concept of juxtaposing two ideas within a small textual space is much more crucial to the essence of the form than exactly how that space is shaped.

SPArchaeologist

11:40

Anyway, I just noticed that someone must have upvoted. Nice, now I only need two more to reach 42 and add yet another meme to that post ^_^

BESW

I've done the syllable count thing myself, it's fun. But it's a trivial version of the haiku, and I suspect it's partly popular because of an over-emphasis on syllable-based English poetic forms in education (blame Shakespeare for getting cast as the quintessential English writer and being a guy who liked his syllable counts).

SPArchaeologist

@BESW That is even better if you take in account that now some are discussing the possibility of Shakespeare begin actually an Italian that escaped to England and translated his name.

BESW

[eyeroll] The Authorship Question has one or two interesting points, but it's buried in classist issues that make it really easy for people to latch onto as a justification for their own agendas. Still, it's interesting that English sonnets are so attached to their Latinate roots despite repetitive rhyme schemes being a major stumbling block for English where they're so much more natural in languages like Italian.

doppelgreener

11:56

@SPArchaeologist You were not wrong in writing that haiku. They do not need to be 5-7-5.

Now having said that I'm looking it up to be sure.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Japanese tradition does indeed place haikus at 5-7-5, but that doesn't mean other forms are not necessarily haikus.

At this point I will firmly say: this is beyond my realm of expertise.

SPArchaeologist

OOOOOOOOK.

ユニコーンは
雪にきらめく
の冬の兆候

Yunikōn wa
yuki ni kirameku
no fuyu no chōkō

Better now?

BESW

12:12

@doppelgreener Even in Japanese, the syllable count isn't a strict requirement; the primary focus is on blending two visuals or concepts. And once you start moving a poem into an entirely different language, strict adherence to language-specific variables over conceptual themes gets hard to justify.

doppelgreener

@SPArchaeologist PERHAPS! (Is... is that your first language?)

SPArchaeologist

@doppelgreener Wish it was. Really wish it was, but no.

I just try to study something about that language. And culture. Mostly culture.

doppelgreener

Alright :)

SPArchaeologist

Jul 7 at 8:36, by SPArchaeologist

@Pixie to make tea you only need hot water, a chawan, and a chasen and a chasaku.

^ this was actually because I have studied the most basic rules of chadō

eimyr

@SPArchaeologist ever been to Japan?

BESW

12:24

Sometimes I wish I'd taken Japanese instead of Spanish for my language credits; it'd be more useful here.

But in high school Spanish was the exotic, far-away choice; Japanese is what I hear in the mall from the tourists.

SPArchaeologist

@eimyr nope, I would love to but for now I never was able to.

doppelgreener

I remember reading about how the priest who invented the tea ceremony fell pretty badly as well.

eimyr

@doppelgreener how so?

doppelgreener

@eimyr He gained quite the reputation for creating it. He became obsessed with perfecting it, and also a bit egotistical (by Japanese standards) in the process. A large statue was eventually erected in his honour in the main throughfare, and when one of the nobles (I think the emperor!? details are fuzzy) got sick of walking under it, he had the statue torn down and, IIRC, the priest was sentenced to death.

Wikipedia suggests it was brought to Japan from China, so I'm not sure where my memories of the story lie with regards to that.

If I'm totally completely wrong, please do call me out so I can learn XD

Sandwich

@BESW I'm in the same boat as you there BESW, Spanish was the only course available at my school. If Japanese was available I'd have taken that 100%

BESW

12:39

My school offered Japanese, Spanish, and for a very short time German and French.

Also the one year of mandatory Chamorro.

eimyr

@Sandwich my school offered compulsory English, and compulsory one of German, Russian or French. A bit dull TBH

Sandwich

I've.. never heard of Chamorro. Where is that the spoken language?

@Eimyr I'd have taken German over Spanish, Russian, or French in a heartbeat.

I'd have taken Latin too

BESW

The Mariana Islands. Mostly the northern islands, for casual conversational use.

SPArchaeologist

@doppelgreener you could be right, I don't know. Sen no Rikyū page on Wikipedia doesn't seem to reference that. Will try to see if I can find anything.

eimyr

I did take German. Worst decision of my life.

BESW

12:44

@Sandwich It was suppressed for many decades and nearly lost as a living language (it's still in jeopardy), especially on Guam, so in the 90s a law was passed making it mandatory in the schools.

Sandwich

Hmmm

Aaron

Good morning

Sandwich

Morning Aaron

BESW

Yawp.

SPArchaeologist

@eimyr I studied French back in school. The teacher was so incompetent that after a year I decides to study German during the summer to ask for a language switch next year.

eimyr

12:48

@SPArchaeologist had the same with German, but switching was not an option.

SPArchaeologist

Both are long past uninstalled from my memory storages.

eimyr

Well, I do have some rudimentary understanding of German in writing, though I'm unable to communicate myself.

Sandwich

I can speak spanish at a low-grade level

David Reeve

i'm not multilingual in a spoken language sense

Sandwich

Definitely need time to think about what I'm going to say

David Reeve

12:51

i speak broken english

eimyr

I'm pretty sure that "multilingual" signifies the fact that someone has more than one 1st language - as is the case with e.g. immigrants or people born to couples of different nationalities

BESW

Nah, it's just "knows multiple languages."

eimyr

really?

huh

David Reeve

yeah

BESW

It has connotations of fluency, but not primacy.

David Reeve

13:02

RAW nothing about the word multilingual means that you have to start with the languages

i mean uh

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:46

@waxeagle are we trying to play tomorrow?

wax eagle

14:06

@JoshuaAslanSmith unfortunately not this week, looks like my IRL game got dropped to Thursday again

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol

wax eagle

we've been doing Wednesday since we've been going again, and our DM now has commitments that night. I may need to find a new night for our game if we keep having to meet Thursdays :(

Joshua Aslan Smith

the sadness is REAL

wax eagle

I know, I'll know more about future schedules after the game tomorrow night. We need to get back to the virtual table soon

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:06

coolio

was gonna say I might or might not be able to make it

@waxeagle I have a big interview tomorrow and might be out celebrating based on how it goes

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith awesome. Hope you get it

you guys planning to stay put for a while?

Sandwich

@Miniman You there?

Miniman

@Sandwich Yeah, but it's 1:10, so not necessarily for long.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle if I get this job that would be the plan

Sandwich

Its 11/23 on that question now

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:08

save up for a house because "I'm not having a baby in an apartment" as my wife likes to say

Sandwich

Wouldn't that qualify?

Miniman

@Sandwich Yep, should do.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith understandable

Sandwich

Does it take time? I haven't gotten it yet =\

Joshua Aslan Smith

we both enjoy SE PA and having the wide family support net for starting a family is a big bonus vs moving somewhere else

wax eagle

15:09

we moved twice while pregnant (once because we basically had to), the other time because our house fell into our laps

Miniman

@Sandwich We actually had this question recently: meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/a/5708/15469

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith definitely

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle yeah moving holly with her broken leg is probably a good approximation of that lol so I can definitely empathize with that

Sandwich

Oh okay

Grace period

Gotcha

Joshua Aslan Smith

Definitely stat with this company for a few years if not longer, depends on what opens up but its a growing company

get certs and improve my skillset

my friend who got me the interview has worked there for the last 5-6 years gotten promoted etc.

Miniman

15:11

@Sandwich It's not so much a "grace period" as "SE doesn't check these things continually" period. It'll pick it up whenever it does a sweep that includes that badge.

Sandwich

@Miniman Makes sense

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle our new APT that we got in feb is very nice even if its in the city and we have to pay philly wage tax as a result, but we'll see what happens I could see us staying here a year or 2 more before getting the house. Moving a big distance is just pretty intimidating.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith completely understandable. It's a hard choice, and if you can find something that you can enjoy/stay at/succeed in close to home that make it a much easier choice

SPArchaeologist

15:25

Bye for now - later :P

Grubermensch

16:16

@waxeagle You should probably post on G+ so Ken knows what's up.

Too bad we can't play this week.

I'm out next week on account of Dragon Con.

wax eagle

@Grubermensch I did

:(

Sandwich

I wish I could go Gruber

I went in 2010 and havent gotten to go since

:,(

I live less than 2 hours away too

wax eagle

yeah, I went for a day back in 05...haven't had been back. and same, live 2 hours from Con, can't go most years.

Sandwich