TRPG General Chat

Ben

00:02

Fair enough haha.

Miniman

@Ben But I'd still advise getting some means of flight if you can, and trying to make sure he doesn't have one. A Monk is pretty dependent on getting into melee.

Ben

@Miniman I can just imagine that...

"Hwoaaaaar! IT'S MORPHIN' TIME!!"

spends 5 minutes carefully putting on leather armour

"HAAA... they're all dead. Dammit."

OH! And then; he'll die... and come back as a Lawful Good character...

trogdor

I never understood why some shows have the heroes sitting there doing ridiculous transformations and or dance moves and the villains either always or almost always sit there politely waiting for them to be done

doesn't sit well with me

Miniman

It does tend to break immersion.

But I think it's just a tradition of the genre.

trogdor

yeah I know

I don't like that immersion breaking though

Ben

00:16

And then he'll be on a mission to find this "Lord Zedd" character...

Miniman

But yeah, the "whole episode of charging up one attack" thing is why I couldn't watch Dragonball.

Ben

@Miniman Yeah 3 episodes is a bit much. Lol

Miniman

(Not because it's immersion breaking, mind you - I just find it really boring.)

trogdor

I have been watching the history of power rangers reviews on atop the fourth wall for a couple days, and every time they show the stupid moves before/after power rangers transformations I cringe a little

@Miniman I was not fond of that either

it killed any interest I started with

which admittedly was not too much to begin with

@Miniman same, there is a difference

however, I did also think it broke a certain amount of immersion

Miniman

@trogdor Oh, it does - I just meant that that's not the reason I couldn't watch it.

trogdor

00:19

I just thought the fact that it was so boring to do that for 3 episodes was very overshadowing of any broken immersion

@Miniman yeah, I agree with you

Miniman

@trogdor Yep, we're definitely on the same page :)

trogdor

at least with like, power rangers, when they do that it takes maybe a minute

then they get on with a fight scene afterwards

Shalvenay

@trogdor -- yeah. OAs much?

trogdor

more than that

really

in D&D that would be a whole round of free turns

for example

they basically would already have lost the fight by the time they were done XD

even against opponents who were slightly weaker than them

Miniman

I can't think of an example right now, but I love it when someone starts that and a Genre Savvy villain is like "Yeah, I'm not waiting for you to be ready." and just stabs them.

trogdor

00:25

@Miniman I would love to see that, but I typically don't

not to say it doesn't happen, but I think I have definitely seen the opposite a hell of a lot more often

Sandwich

@Miniman Like that indy moment

Miniman

@trogdor It's not common, which is probably why I can't think of an example off the top of my head

@Sandwich [blinks] ?

trogdor

yeah

I am sure I have seen it before at some point

Sandwich

Indiana Jones, where that guy is doing his sword moves

And then Indy pulls out his pistol and shoots him

trogdor

but I definitely can't recall from what

Miniman

00:28

@Sandwich Heh, nice. Guilty admission: I've never actually seen an Indiana Jones movie.

Sandwich

Oh man go watch Raiders of the Lost Ark

Its good stuff

Miniman

If it helps, I played the awesome videogame of Temple of Doom

doppelgreener

@trogdor In Japanese stuff it is at least an issue of ethics and of honour. You allow your opponent to draw upon everything they have, then you defeat them or be defeated. If you go "nope haha bang bang you're dead" while they're in the process of unleashing all they have, you're a sneak and have lost face.

In Western film it's because it's cool.

In both cases the transformation sequences happen in pseudoreality. There's animes where the heroes have an amazing elaborate transformation sequence that lasts some time but is bracing to watch. But then there will be the couple of times they need to transform, and the animators don't do the sequence so you just see what everyone else is seeing, and you see it happening just about instantly.

Pixie

01:00

Yes. It makes the most sense to view them as actually very brief, with the slowdown being either metaphorical, an obvious visual device, or taking place in an alternate pocket of time. Being cool is also definitely a part of Japanese media's transformation sequences, and sometimes they have significance in terms of the character. For example, magical girl stories are coming of age stories. A magical girl is transforming throughout a series on multiple levels.

BESW

I suspect a big part of it is just that Japanese visual media doesn't move through time like Western visual media does anyway.

In most Western visual media, each frame--of a comic or a film or TV show--takes place after the previous one and before the next one, unless we're given obvious cues to think otherwise (like "Meanwhile..." or "24 hours ago").

But in Japanese media it's quite common for many frames to be shown as different views of the same moment.

A whole page of a comic might be filled with panels that each show one particular piece of an important instantaneous event, and there's no need for a cue to the reader about it because it's a common technique.

From that perspective, transformation isn't a sped-up sequence or "pocket time," nor is the villain waiting around for the sequence to end: it's getting the visual "space" it needs just like a single moment might take up a whole comic page. There's no in-world explanation, and attempts to give it one may be more an artefact of our Western conventions than anything else.

Miniman

01:17

Once again I'm forced to say: data.stackexchange is so damn cool.

Pixie

@BESW Yes. Obvious visual device with a side of metaphor in appropriate cases is the best explanation, really. There's no need to dwell on the actual time something takes because the actual time isn't the point of the sequence.

BESW

I think it's kinda like trying to find an in-universe explanation for why Polonius talks to the audience in Hamlet.

If you know the convention of the aside, you know it doesn't have a story reason to happen and you know that's okay. If you don't know about asides... you may wind up thinking Polonius is supposed to have delusions and hallucinations.

Adeptus

@BESW Breaking the 4th wall since 15xx

Pixie

Granted, anime/manga/video games will still occasionally parody the concept: a character might comment that it's a rule that you can't attack while someone is transforming, someone might get away because a transformation took too long, someone could get attacked, etc. Questioning it isn't unheard of. Still, it's far more common for it to be played straight.

Miniman

Mental note: go find the TVTropes page for this when I'm not working.

BESW

01:30

Yeah--once a convention becomes comfortable enough that the audience knows what to expect, it gets played with.

Pixie

Yep. There are also some exceptions from the genesis of the magical girl genre, before these things were as codified as they are now. Cutie Honey, for example, sometimes attacked people during her own transformation sequence.

(There may be similar cases in other genres with extended transformation sequences, but I'm not as aware of their history.)

Nyoze

02:32

\o

Ben

05:26

-1

Q: Are there any rules that specify a class' alignment?

After a brief discussion in chat about the topic, (which didn't really go anywhere), I was wondering if there was anything in the rules that determined whether certain classes must have particular alignments? (E.g. Paladins must be Lawful-Good to Lawful-Neutral) Is there a difference in Editions?

cc @Althis, @Miniman regarding our discussion from last week

Sandwich

06:13

List of countries by Internet connection speeds

This list of countries by Internet connection speed lists the Akamai State of the Internet Report "Average Connection Speed" (ACS) of TCP-level Internet access by end-users accessing content on the Akamai content delivery network. According to Akamai, ACS is not indicative of overall broadband connection speed because it is mitigated by several factors such as parallel web browser requests, small files slowed down by TCP slow-start, and IP address sharing. Akamai advises that its "Average Peak Connection Speed" (APCS) is "more representative of Internet connection capacity". Consequently, users...

All I wanna know is why cant we get 2gbps

BESW

08:20

Hang on, let me scare the live raccoon over to the same side of the dead one.

Last time I heard that, I saw a gallon ziplock of fermented cherries.

Sandwich

Someone was makin some moonshine

Pixie

But "I'm sorry my car is so messy." guarantees that the car will hardly be messy at all and will make you feel like yours is a maelstrom.

trogdor

08:42

@doppelgreener I get this, I do

but part of my point is that this is a villain letting a hero or multiple heroes get away with stupid stuff for the sake of,... honor

however, the point that some of these transformations don't take that long, that you are just getting to see a slowed down version because that is the only dramatic/coherent way to witness it is all cool with me

trogdor

09:08

all that being said, it isn't the biggest problem ever

at most it is a personal pet peeve of mine which can be mitigated if you make any effort at all to establish maybe why it works like that

and I do understand that in Japanese culture taking advantage of that kind of thing could be considered too horrible for even most of the worst villains to even think to do it

and it is a world where people do that stuff to turn into magical/tech warriors

there is already some silliness happening

I just do lose some suspension of disbelief at the very least

but it usually isn't enough to hate a series, it is just a small point against really, at most,.... usually

Pixie

This is quite NSFW (extended partial nudity), but if you can get past that, it's not a bad example of what BESW means in terms of showing the same event in many frames for impact, especially when you get to the action around 2:05. This is also very silly, though. It's aware of itself.

Both Honey and Natsuko are shot from several different angles, as are the police and the Panther Claw goons. For Honey and Natsuko it's because they're cool and important. For the nameless troops, it's to reinforce a sense of scale.

trogdor

yeah, those points are important too

but I am not entirely sure I can think rationally when something that just LOOKS so irrational is in front of me

it isn't entirely to do with the fact that I would rationally think what is happening is not ok as that I would Feel it in the moment

no matter what I know about why it is happening

it's just the way my brain works

Pixie

I can understand that, too. Some things will just stand out to you, even if they're conventions or there's a reason behind it that you can grasp.

trogdor

if no one is taking the time to explain why something obsurd just happened I get a bit mad

but absurd for the context of what I watch

I still have suspension of disbelief,... it just happens to have some particular blind spots

sometimes I think rationally later and go "ok maybe that was fine"

other times I am still mad forever because, for example, Moffat has pulled his stupid tricks too many times in front of me for me to be ok with it even one more time (and I know he isn't gonna freaking stop either)

Pixie

09:24

Heh, yeah. Sometimes there is only so much you can handle.

trogdor

and I think, like for the transformation thing

too many different people decide they need to do it and then I end up seeing it 500 times and I can't take it anymore

XD

even though that is at least partially irrational

I did watch some small amount of Power Rangers as a kid and even then I could not understand how this really really evil person could stand to not play at least a little dirty in what is obviously going to be a serious fight

when the freaking rangers are dancing and doing flips and **** before and or after they power up

any explanation for all of that could very well be valid, but probably won't change how I react, as unfortunate or fun as that may be

probably both really

I do have fun raging at silly things like that, just too be entirely fair

BESW

09:49

"Kleptokitties" would be a good name for a band--or an adventure module for Secrets of Cats.

trogdor

@BESW XD

that is a hilarious interaction

Ben

10:32

Question: who is learned enough of the 5e system to help me make a custom Background for my character?

Sandwich

You need to know the system to make a character background now?

What happened to just coming up with a bunch of cool stuff?

trogdor

there may be an actual Background mechanic

D&D has done that before

Tashio

There is

trogdor

that being said, I only know this from past editions

Tashio

@Ben What I've found easiest is to take the existing backgrounds and tweek them and keep your bond flaws personality in line with those

Ben

10:38

Whatever it is I was (and am) unaware of it... All I know is the backgrounds they have in the PH

trogdor

I have no 5E knowledge

Tashio

@Ben What you looking to do?

Ben

Well, following an earlier discussion, I'm making the green power ranger... So I need a background that is being made from clay, and being the plaything of an evil space witch bet on destroying earth...

Or something similar

Tashio

Okay I don't really know much about the Power Rangers so can't really help fill in blanks

But basically as per PHB, pick 2 skills you feel are appropriate to the background for proficiency. Then either 2 tool proficiencies or two languages.

As a pet of a space witch perhaps Arcana works for being subject to magic over the years, along with Athletics as a being made of clay representing the strength of the earth

For languages perhaps Primordial and one other. Or if the DM allows, perhaps some tool proficiency + primordial

BESW

11:13

@Pixie That is some of the most enthusiastic, integrated, interactive camerawork I've ever seen.

Ben

11:32

@Tashio I like the way this is going :)

doppelgreener

@Tashio tool proficiency: you! hahahahaha!

or tool proficiency: my fists!

or something xD

(@Tashio not a comment on you, to be clear!!)

BESW

...I'm reminded of the time we used a PC as a hammer.

Ben

@Tashio usually (just looking in the PHB) they have a feat as well

Tashio

@Ben Let me check I don't recall any backgrounds offering feats

David Reeve

morning

doppelgreener

11:39

@David Morning!

Tashio

@Ben They have features which are usually a small bonus to something unrelated to stats. Like requesting hospitality from a certain group of people

Ben

Ah fair enough. So what might you suggest? Or perhaps that might be a discussion for the DM (or someone that has a bit better knowledge of the MMPR)

Tashio

@Ben Unfortunately for the rest while I can probably give you feed back on suggested personality flaw or bonds, I can't really recommend any to you for that char as I don't know enough about the background lore and such

@Ben If you are really unsure, read through all the other background options and pick one that fits from any of the background and maybe tweek it slightly.

Ben

@Tashio I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the assist!

Question. What's up with the Height/Weight Modifiers? It says a human (for example) is 4'8", + 2d10

2d10 what..?

BESW

12:01

Decibels!

Seriously though, it's gonna be inches.

Ben

and the weight is worse - 110 x 2d4 lb!

Sandwich

Decibels? Don't you mean wubwubs?

Ben

2d4

Dice Service

4

3

Ben

770 lbs???

Sandwich

12:02

Uhhh what

No way

That's probably supposed to be a plus

Ben

That was my thought :/

BESW

I haven't seen these tables in 5e, but based on similar tables in many other games I've seen...

Ben

from the 5e phb

BESW

Yup, I know how to read that.

The height modifier is inches, and the weight modifier is multiplied by the height modifier.

Ben

um... wat

BESW

12:04

Like this:

I'm a hill dwarf, I'm gonna roll for my stats.

2d4

Dice Service

3

1

BESW

That's 4 inches, so I'm 4 feet tall.

2d6

Dice Service

•

BESW

I multiply 7 (my weight modifier) by 4 (my height modifier) to get 28.

115 + 28 = 143 lbs.

Ben

ohhhh

BESW

12:06

See? The taller I get, the more I weigh.

Ben

Well that wasn't cryptic at all

BESW

Yeah, it's awful notation.

Ben

Lol

BESW

Luckily I've seen other games with similar mechanics that explain it better.

Tashio

Yea it's kinda confusing, took me a few looks to figure out what they were trying to say

Sandwich

12:07

1d6

Dice Service

•

Sandwich

Nice.. still low

One day I'll roll more than a six

I'll roll a 7

And it will be glorious

BESW

[re-activates Fudge script]

Sandwich

They should add 1dfudge to the dice script

BESW

Not gonna happen. We're lucky to have the basic polyhedrals.

3

Q: RPG.SE Chat Fudge dice: a userscript for Fate & Fudge games

RPG.SE's chat rooms support dice rolls as an easter egg. This script will convert d6 rolls that you see into Fudge dice, using the ordinary conversion rules: 1–2 = minus, 3–4 = blank, 5–6 = plus. You can enable or disable these dice on a per-room basis. It will remember which rooms you picked. Y...

script chat greasemonkey tampermonkey

This works just fine.

Ben

12:10

@Sandwich I didn't realise that was a thing

BESW

@Ben We use 'em for Fate games, mostly.

Sandwich

I think like

Ben

Well there you go

Sandwich

With as much bad luck as I have

I think that I'm eventually going to roll a die that lands on the edge of the die and roll a six at the same time as another number

Ben

Is there a way to figure out how much gold you start with? like (2d10 +5) or something?

Aaron

12:11

Good morning

Sandwich

I thought it was class based

Tashio

@Ben based on your class, or on your background if you choose the preset stuff

Ben

Backround can have an input too I think

@Tashio Ah that'd be it

Tashio

@Ben So either you roll money, or you have a preset amount left after the eq you get, usually around 10-20 gold

Ben

for a monk it's 5d4 for example

Tashio

12:13

yea x10

Ben

12:31

Where can I find the list of skills?

nvm. found it

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:19

herro

David Reeve

13:30

hi @JoshuaAslanSmith

BESW

14:06

[wave]

wax eagle

14:50

using a wish spell and asking for infinite AC: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/67197/…

Miniman

@waxeagle Problem is, as that question stands he can get infinite AC.

Oops, he just replied.

wax eagle

15:10

I like optimization...but that's not a useful question...at least not without real bounds...

I need to dig in on op in 5e and see what's been written so far so we can get an idea of where optimization questions' boundaries lie so far

Miniman

@waxeagle Not even a little bit. I'm hoping to delete that answer somewhere in my future.

@waxeagle They've not been too bad so far, for the most part.

wax eagle

I'm tempted to close the question, but it's answerable...its just dumb

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:58

@waxeagle that sounds like a dangerous day of trolling reddit, WOTC boards, and GITP boards

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith yup :(

Joshua Aslan Smith

could be some really good/terrible good posts there

@waxeagle just DV that original question

its an on-topic in scope question that is silly but no good VTC reason in my opinion

so just DV it to OBLIVION

Zachiel

18:54

Hello. Who's good at formulating questions for D&D's speak with dead divination, and is there a non-logged place we can briefly talk about this?

Pixie

20:52

@BESW Isn't it? The more I watch it, the more impressed I am. Everything is interlocked; everything plays off everything else. The camerawork and choreography work together to create a sequence that is tight and energetic and fun.

Zachiel

22:37

@Sandwich A guy I know: "Hey, I rolled a 9! ...on a d6?"

Nyoze

23:51

\o

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