TRPG General Chat

The Oracle

04:08

0

Q: We are not lawyers. Why do we allow law topics?

This is a site about Role-Playing Games. We are experts on Role-Playing Games. There is a sickening number of questions about law, that are only tangentially related to games, and they are being treated as on topic. This is highly problematic: The questions are almost always far too broad. ...

Tritium21

04:30

Oh the irony of 'we arn't qualified to give legal opinions' being answered with legal opinion

Grubermensch

I would like to question why "10" meets the threshold of a "sickening number"?

Tritium21

1 is sickening

Grubermensch

Take some pepto

2

Miniman

04:48

@Tritium21 I upvoted, because I think it's a good question worth asking, but I have no particular opinion on the outcome. It's worth mentioning that you could have asked it with a bit less negativity.

Lord_Gareth

05:06

@Tritium21 I'm deeply aware that this is the pot calling the kettle black but you are aware that you're being needlessly hostile, yes?

Tritium21

Its how i feel about the topic.... nothing but hostility

Lord_Gareth

There's a certain baseline professionalism expected of the Stack, as I was recently reminded. Cool yer jets. You don't help your case that way anyway.

Tritium21

Which is why a tempered my remarks.

doppelgreener

06:18

@Tritium21 what makes you think we aren't qualified?

we're not qualified to give full legal counsel, but i'm not a physicist and i can still tell you a bit about physics.

BESW

22 episodes into The Flash and they still leave loose papers lying around his headquarters.

doppelgreener

so, yeah, we're gonna have to mention law in the event of you bringing it up.

I am also not sure why you find it sickening for non-lawyers to discuss law.

Or, like, ask about law. Or offer advice about how the law works.

It's not an arcane thing nobody but a lawyer should ever touch ever on pain of horrible metaphorical court death.

So I am left with confusion as to why you're so outraged / sickened / hostile / whatever.

@BESW What's the significance of that?

BESW

@doppelgreener Every time he leaves in a hurry, there's a small flurry of papers that get knocked around.

doppelgreener

Oh. Yes. Of course, he should probably be careful to pack those away.

BESW

It's just a visual effect the director uses to emphasise his speed, but it also makes him look like a jerk, and like the people he works with are kinda dumb.

Adeptus

06:32

@doppelgreener or at least invest in some paperweights

Magician

(yeah, I know, everyone reads xkcd)

Still. "I wish to never age!" "Fine. You shall now advance north-west forever at a constant speed."

...except 'speed' is meaningless without time.

trogdor

@BESW nice

BESW

06:48

"You now exist simultaneously in this instant --and in no other moment-- in every possible location from this position northwestward."

Like that?

Magician

That just equates to being smeared, briefly, across the landscape.

More like "you can travel through time at-will, but can't ever go south-east, ever. Every step you take north-west, at any moment in time, will limit your eternity."

trogdor

@Anaphory I might suggest the "Tales of the Otori" series

it is one of my favorites, and it does have a definite example of a powerful Lord getting overthrown due to both his greed and his just general cruelty

its by Lian Hearn

its a trilogy, but it also has a prequel that you could skip, or read, if you really wanted to

I'm not suggesting I didn't like the prequel so much as adding it in might be a bit much if you don't like the series as much as I did

his overthrow isn't particularly peaceful though,.... so if that is a snag you might look for something else.

there is also the stuff Laura Joh Rowland has written about Sano Ichiro (the series doesn't seem to have a name, or at least one I can remember or find at the moment) but those books fit what I assume you might be looking for even less

unless it doesn't matter as long as it is Japanese fiction stuff

anyway, all I can say is, I liked both of those sets of books. the best I can do is say they were written at least well enough for my personal tastes, I liked the characters and the complicated situations they consistently found themselves in. I am a sucker for the setting of Medieval Japan too, so there is that.

doppelgreener

07:23

>! wonder if spoiler quotes work here

nope :(

trogdor

huh?

trogdor

08:03

in chat you mean?

Anaphory

09:24

@trogdor That must be why BESW suggested pinging you ;-)

trogdor

yes

I assumed as much

Anaphory

The reason is that my L5R character is about to run a revolution, and I have no idea how that works in a setting where the Emperor is Divine and people are super-traditionalist.

So I wanted to look for some inspiration how that might work. The peacefulness is separate, and comes from the fact that she's who she is.

trogdor

ah

so then, I think the last book of the Otori Trilogy works best

to be fair though, I suggest if you do read it that you read the first 2 first

the continuity is pretty important

that being said, the last book is the one that would fit best, though not perfectly

Anaphory

I may find the time, game is on a break due to other players having exams. Or I may have someone removing spoilers from a synopsis for me and just look at the bare bones, if I don't manage.

Any other suggestions that remotely touch on such subjects?

trogdor

um

under those criteria, probably not

the other series I mentioned doesn't have the main character rebelling per se

he does have plenty of personal, inner crisis pertaining to his Lord, but not rebellion

and his wife is pretty dang awesome for a lady of that time period and place, but again, she isn't exactly directly rebelling against people so much as social norms

I am not sure any other series I have read would fit for what you want

the Tales of the Otori is the best bet there I think

I wouldn't say it fits perfectly either, but it comes pretty close

Anaphory

09:42

Cool. I'll have a look at it, thank you!

trogdor

no problem

doppelgreener

10:34

SPAME

trogdor

wow

doppelgreener

( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ )

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

10:53

pull ::blam:: PULL ::blam::

::grumble::

doppelgreener

[suddenly imagines Brian as the Heavy Weapons Guy]

WOW. Spamrush.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

okay. Dear internet. Stoppit.

especially as dealing with each posts takes like 10 clicks to do right.

Come on

doppelgreener

I notice these don't even show up in the recently deleted list!

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

no. when a mod does it, they're properly expunged

it's just tedious

click, click, spam, click, click, click, destroy, destroy as spam, click, click.

oh yeah, note, current mood: indiscriminately burning.

doppelgreener

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

11:06

yep

The life of Plucky Duck

►

Magician

11:24

Evil bird mastermind.

3

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Magician my opponent unmasked?

doppelgreener

@Magician Wow! XD

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

okay, well it looks like its let up

I'll rely on a posse of 5 users here since I'm basically off to bed

for spam, remember: don't bother to downvote, please don't flag for moderator attention, just flag as spam.

9

doppelgreener

spam flags also carry an implicit downvote, so there's that!

but yes, I will be keeping an eye out and flagging.

Magician

That bird should play this guy in a movie:

doppelgreener

11:59

That is a great bird.

Aaron

12:24

What is that from?

Magician

The new Ms Marvel series. It's quite good.

David Reeve

when are we getting a squirrel girl movie, marvel?

this bamwar.com spammer is really persistent, huh?

Aaron

@DavidReeve ?

trogdor

there is a spammer posting questions right now

the crap it posts keeps popping up

David Reeve

some korean spammer just spamming links to some bamwar.com site

Aaron

12:35

Oh it must be taken down quick i didn't even see it

David Reeve

nbd but they're creating a bunch of accounts to do it

doppelgreener

12:57

@DavidReeve anonymous accounts probably

no account creation involved at all

Good job though folks, keep it up.

new spam

sillyputty

13:29

The War on Bamwar.

doppelgreener

the blamwar on bamwar

Aaron

14:01

The blamwar of mid 2015. It has been a few hours. We are running low on flags and have resorted to close votes. Things are getting bad

6

sillyputty

i've got flags left. where are the offenders?

Aaron

2 posts ahead. 150 pixels down.

100 pixels to the right.

sillyputty

Hahaha fantastic.

DuckTapeAl

14:20

I really hope that this answer gets six more upvotes, so I can get another gold badge. :)

Wibbs

@doppelgreener well if you're going to post a great, considered answer after my short rushed one then I'll just have to delete mine ;p

doppelgreener

14:44

@Wibbs haha sorry

DuckTapeAl

15:32

@SevenSidedDie I'm reading that 5 Stages thing you posted yesterday, and his description of "Storming" describes every experience I have with long-running RPG groups.

Which is a tad unsettling, so say the leasst.

MadMAxJr

15:56

Help Simon Stalenhag's kickstarter get to 320k and we'll get an RPG about dystopian Sweden with dinosaurs, robots, and futuretech. I admire his art, but the prospect of getting his stories in English is great. kickstarter.com/projects/cabinetentertainment/…

Pureferret

16:38

@DuckTapeAl five stages? I only know forming, storming, norming and performing

DuckTapeAl

He describes the fifth as "stagnation".

Pureferret

@DuckTapeAl but it doesn't rhyme! It must be invalid

DuckTapeAl

Clearly.

Pureferret

@MadMAxJr What're the mechanics like?

MadMAxJr

@Pureferret It doesn't exist yet, so I have no idea. I just know it would be based on his works of art.

His publishing company however has rumored it's been in the works for a while though.

Pureferret

16:44

@MadMAxJr I find it hard to get behind a piece of work based solely on the art

MadMAxJr

Basically I'm sold on the idea of 'Dinosaurs and robots in the mid 90s'.

Pureferret

@MadMAxJr but you could do that in almost any system....

MadMAxJr

True. I'm just curious about the possibilities.

Pureferret

@MadMAxJr that's fair

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret He started with the classic four, then added a fifth RPG group stage based on someone's extension of the original to five.

Pureferret

16:48

@MadMAxJr tor.com/blogs/2013/03/…

Lord_Gareth

@BESW @Magician, come forth. The Dark Lord summons thee; from the Throne of D12s he calls, in the voice of a thousand dead campaigns, in the words of a million problem players, with the hymns of the dreaded Kender. Come forth!

Wibbs

lol

MadMAxJr

d12s.. I remember those. I ended up with a half pound of the things in a bag from a hobby store closing.

I keep them with the D30 that I have no idea what it was made for.

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr Half a pound? That's a lot of d12s.

Wibbs

@MadMAxJr Savage Worlds uses them

SevenSidedDie

16:50

@MadMAxJr (People have made d30 tables specifically to give it some love.)

MadMAxJr

Yeah, it's a big surplus bag, like the kind you used to be able to get from Crystal Caves surplus bags.

Lord_Gareth

Damn. The summoning circle appears to be malfunctioning.

I was gonna try and do another breakdown of cinematic -> FATE

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth I was hoping you'd weigh in on this question:

7

Q: How do I teach players to engage with a game in a rules-first way?

Among other ways, I often like to play in a rules-centric way, where the rules are the "physics" of reality and dictate what can and cannot be true within the fiction. I especially like this for PvP games, where good rules help players be okay with bad things happening to their characters. Somet...

gm-techniques system-agnostic group-dynamics

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie I honestly haven't been participating as actively as I used to. If you want me to see a question, summon me. Like, saying this as one user to another.

SevenSidedDie

Assuming you have experience teaching the style, that is.

Lord_Gareth

16:52

Not one user to a mod.

TL;DR I've been busy, have answered questions when called in like tactical nuke

[Reads]

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth Yeah, I was going to point you towards it earlier, but it looks like you dropped by here just after I signed off for the night.

Lord_Gareth

-> Rules as physics

NO STAHP

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HORROR YOU ARE ABOUT TO UNLEASH

DO NOT DO THIS TO YOURSELF

MadMAxJr

Yeah.. That's implying the rules are an exact simulation rather than an emulation.

I don't want to live in a world where d20 rules determine physics.

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr You can still pull it off if the RAW of the system is sufficiently internally consistent

But then you hit, like...Pathfinder

MadMAxJr

I'd like to put two items in the microwave at once, but I don't have the feat for it.

2

SevenSidedDie

16:54

@Lord_Gareth Inorite? But, if you assume it's not a horrible idea, it's still useful to know how to teach players how to reorient to that relationship to the rules.

Lord_Gareth

And wake up eight states away, slathered in blood

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth It sounds like a flavour of d20 isn't the game in question.

Wibbs

@Lord_Gareth Is there actually a system where it is?

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie This question appears to have two similar but still separate questions in it; one is 'how to encourage my players to think of the rules as defining the game world' and the other is 'how to encourage my players to think mechanically'

MadMAxJr

The asker refers to Anima. I don't know of that beyond a game with pretty miniatures and lots of big art pieces.

Lord_Gareth

16:55

The important separation here is you can do the latter, then put narrative over it. You can do this very easily

SevenSidedDie

@Wibbs Lots of games are internally consistent. D&D gets itself into trouble there when it wants to be all things to all people, mechanically tight, and have enough of a veneer of being simulationism to appeal to simulationists.

Lord_Gareth

The former makes the rules into an aspect of the narrative

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth That's an interesting point. Are they even separable for this purpose, though? They seem intertwined, in this context.

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie Depends. For instance, I have a story that's a riff on 3.5 RAW where one of the jokes is that a main character thinks he's better at optimizing than he is.

The rules are physics for him, but he's bad at them

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth Heh.

MadMAxJr

16:58

"They end up relating to the rules as obstacles to what they want to accomplish instead of scaffolding on which to build what they want." I have sympathy for this part he brings up.

Lord_Gareth

[Starts typing an answer]

I'm gonna open up with 'there are two questions here', separate them out, and then talk about them separately.

MadMAxJr

I'm wondering if the asker and his players are even on the same page about what they want out of their group play experience.

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth Yeah, that's legit. If solving the problem is two-phase, expertly teasing them apart is useful.

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr While that's a legitimate question, the one the supplicant asked is answerable.

Maybe advise him int he comments?

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr Now-gone comments indicate "yes." I'm not 100% convinced, but it's worth giving the benefit of the doubt since it's a plausible situation for it to be "yes," whether it is in fact or not.

MadMAxJr

17:02

A solid response to that though would require input from the asker and his players. I'll hold off on that.

SevenSidedDie

I asked "how do you know whether they're receptive, or just don't like it"? And was answered:

> by talking with them and playing games with them.

So that's worth giving the benefit of the doubt I think.

MadMAxJr

Some wordy answers there. Only thing that comes to mind is "Give them example character sheets that line up with your intent and discuss them pre-game."

Character X operates around rule Y, supported by Z and so on.

Lord_Gareth

That's actually something I'm going to use as an example

By talking about Baron Bearington Bearflinger

A giant of a man who wields his faithful grizzly bear companions in battle

And throws them in boomeranging lines

Of bear

DuckTapeAl

Is that different from Sir Bearington?

MadMAxJr

Sounds a little like one of my players who took Throw Anything and is excited about the 'anything' part.

Lord_Gareth

17:11

@DuckTapeAl I presume you mean Lord Bearington, and yes.

@MadMAxJr Almost! Fling Ally, Warblade levels, Bloodstorm Blade PrC

Your ally is now a thrown and melee weapon

Then add bear

MadMAxJr

... Is there a way to make your ally count as ammo?

Lord_Gareth

@MadMAxJr Drunken master, ally breaks and becomes "useless" on a natural one

Then wield gnomes

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth That is an awesome visual. (And yet also demonstrates to me why this playstyle is so antithetical to me: it goes way beyond where my personal line is drawn on where suspension of disbelief becomes impossible to maintain.)

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie It's also not how I usually play, but understanding system mastery usually leads you down that rabbit hole at some juncture.

MadMAxJr

If the ally counts as a melee weapon, I wonder if they can be enchanted. Put the returning property on them.

Lord_Gareth

17:13

@MadMAxJr There's items for that, but it's faster just to use Bloodstorm Blade

Esp. since it gets you 120-foot lines of bear

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth That's why I have a gentleman's agreement with games that have these possibilities to ignore/paper over those bits. I agree not to think about the rabbit holes, and it agrees to not remind me.

Lord_Gareth

Boomeranging bear.

MadMAxJr

Nothing more horrifying than a bear flying through the air to attack you than that same bear spiraling away back to the hands of the thrower.

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie Aye, and that's how I generally play as well. My point here is that if you're going to understand the system you've got to at least comprehend how it happens

I can appreciate the beauty and horror of stuff like Baron Bearington or the Dream of Metal

Because they demonstrate an elegant mastery of the mechanics

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth I'm not sure that is necessary unless you're likely to play with (or develop material for) others who might visit the rabbit holes.

MadMAxJr

17:16

Don't play too absurd and don't play too realistic. I have a player who wanted to justify that alchemist explosive arrows should be touch attacks, should explode on a miss, since it is a traveling explosive and the explosive force should not be subject to simple armor.

DuckTapeAl

Dream of Metal?

Lord_Gareth

But they're still banned at my table

@DuckTapeAl Lich creates an army of dreamers; with them, he has an impregnable dream-plane in which his phylactery hides. Attempting to get to the last dreamer triggers a trap that resets time to the point at which the lich built the trap, and only the lich remembers it.

SevenSidedDie

But I'm relentlessly ideographic rather than nomothetic when it comes to traditional-design games.

MadMAxJr

Groundhog Day/Edge of Tomrrow liches. I like that.

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie As a designer, I find knowing these things to be invaluable precisely so I can decide if and when I want to install them, or if I care about specific exploits. Seeing where psychotic wording goes helps you tighten your own up and gives you practice in balancing across diverse subsystems in a complex base system.

You don't have to be designing for Emperor Tippy to learn from this stuff.

SevenSidedDie

17:19

@Lord_Gareth Yeah, I imagine as a designer for such a game it's impossible to avoid dealing with these things.

Pureferret

@MadMAxJr that sounds reasonable... But unbalanced.

MadMAxJr

@Pureferret Bingo.

Don't expect the rules to provide realism.

SevenSidedDie

(I much prefer game designs that don't require close parsings of wording in the first place.)

MadMAxJr

I have players who read some rules with such a fine tooth comb that I think we need to patch the English language due to usage defects.

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret Balance isn't all it's cracked up to be. Even in games that try to be super-balanced, you still end up finding ways to break the balance and have to fall back on the group agreeing on how important balance is.

@MadMAxJr It's been tried. :) Natural language is super-hard to nail down, and might be impossible based on the theoretical research I've seen.

Or rather, might be impossible to nail down except by an intelligence an order of magnitude smarter than the species that produced the natural language.

Pureferret

17:24

@SevenSidedDie it depends on the system.

The developers for nWoD 2.0 née God-Machine Chronicles have explicitly said, hang balance, let's have fun

I think that's a good choice

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret Any system I've ever seen, there is always some location where unbalance can be added back in. Even Fate can have unbalanced characters, for example.

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie I find the most valuable thing that I, the designer, can do for my customers is to make my RAW look like my RAI. Balance or not, clarity is the one thing that is absolutely necessary.

Pureferret

For D&D I think this is not a good choice

Lord_Gareth

Absence of clarity is one of the sins I don't forgive in game design.

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret Oh yeah, I see what you mean. This is my preference too. Gimme the tools, I'll take care of making the game as (un)balanced as necessary for our needs.

Lord_Gareth

17:26

Which is part of the reason I despise 5e with an unholy passion

MadMAxJr

[Rules] [Sidebar explaining what those rules are for]

Pureferret

@SevenSidedDie but when I play the gnome archivist and I'm playing in a combat heavy combat D&D game with Strongson McStrong the barbarian with a 25 in all stats because of imbalance then if makes me upset

In fact no

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth I think 5e commits the same "sin" as I mentioned above, but inverted: instead of trying for a tight mechanical system with hints of simulationism (that just end up undermining its mechanics) in order to appeal to the simulationists, 5e has loose mechanics that are meant to be used as implementations of the group's sense of fictional reality, but it retains a veneer of balance-looking stuff (that just end up underminings its toolbox design) in order to appeal to 3e + 4e fans.

Pureferret

It's when unsolved rules give someone disproportionate amounts of spot light

David Wilkins

@Pureferret Also referred to as "player agency"

SevenSidedDie

17:29

@MadMAxJr This is the approach my current system-love, RuneQuest 6, takes. Gives me rules, then advises me on what they're for, but doesn't bother nailing down all corners because it trusts me to learn how to use the tools in a way that works.

Pureferret

I see it in the LARP system I occasionally play. My main character can deal 2-3X the damage of the others so the GM had to up-stat monsters to 'challenge' him

MadMAxJr

3.0. Magical item that spawns lots of rats around you. Great Cleave. Generate tons of attacks that don't have to be used on cleave targets. DM sigh. Close book. Walk away from table. Don't look back at explosion.

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret There is a reason I avoid playing 3.5e with groups of mixed charop tendencies. :)

Pureferret

That throws the other players agency out the window

@SevenSidedDie it often feels like I'm the only one making it mixed in those scenarios

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret Yeah, could be. Finding a group that plays in a preferred way is like dating: there will be a lot of misses, and settling early doesn't end well.

Q.v. the storming stage article mentioned earlier, actually.

MadMAxJr

17:33

@SevenSidedDie I've been seeing 3.5/Pathfinder for a long time now. I know there's better alternatives, but I've been with her for so long I'm just not sure I'm up for the work it would take to move on to a new system.

Pureferret

But I can fix them!

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr I understand. My own experience was with being mono-gamist, until me and D&D hit a dealbreaker moment and I started seeing other systems.

Pureferret

@MadMAxJr do it for the characters. You don't want them levelling up in a system that doesn't live them, do you?

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret Heh! :D

Lord_Gareth

Eh. Screw it, I don't actually care enough to answer this question >.<

MadMAxJr

17:35

Though a game system won't take half your stuff if you break up. Though... She might take half your players.

SevenSidedDie

@Lord_Gareth Fair enough. I know we have people who are compatriots of Dark's in this regard, but I don't expect everyone to care to answer. :)

Lord_Gareth

@SevenSidedDie At least part of this is I suspect arming him with this information is going to be like handing him a noose.

MadMAxJr

@SevenSidedDie There are a LOT of factors in that question.

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr You'd be surprised! Breaking up with a game system, you don't really realise how many assumptions they will keep and not return.

MadMAxJr

Hmm. New game system pre-nuptuals. An agreement that by trying out the new system what players will commit to and what they don't have to commit to. Outline of what happens if the game hits a point where it will not continue.

SevenSidedDie

17:38

@Lord_Gareth Possibly. I do think he's working with more benign systems than d20 though. Like, how to make someone focus on a rules-centric style of play with Burning Wheel results in awesome smooth sailing, by way of contrast.

27

Q: How many sessions is enough to judge a game fairly?

I want to introduce some new games to my group. But when I broach the topic like, "Howdja like to play Dogs in the Vineyard?" they balk - not at the prospect of trying something new, but at the prospect of committing a big chunk of time to a total unknown. So, we're going to try "gaming tapas" -...

gm-techniques

MadMAxJr

Playing rules-centric BESM: Step 1 - THESE RULES ARE INCONSISTENT. METRIC HERE AND IMPERIAL OVER THERE. Step 2 - Curl up in the corner and rock slowly.

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr Or RIFTS. Rules-centric RIFTS is both ridiculous, and undefined. It's a good thing that game has so much else going for it than its rules.

(Though I hear it's coming to Savage Worlds soon.)

MadMAxJr

Clearly I need to get my players to adopt the one true system. Ninja Burger 1st edition. Ninja can only do the 20 things listed on their sheet. Any other usages must be presented to the DM in a description of how that is done with existing skills. Example: I use horsemanship to drive the Geo Metro. It has horsepower, therefore horsemanship.

</sarcasm>

SevenSidedDie

In other news, learning to run a new system is super-hard, especially a rules-ful one, even when it's superficially similar to a familiar system. I've been taking notes like crazy each session of my latest campaign on things I need to look up later.

MadMAxJr

I want to teach my players Eclipse Phase, but I'm not sure they want to learn a new system.

This is why I hover around d20 and d20 spinoffs.

Pureferret

17:51

@MadMAxJr what makes that special?

MadMAxJr

Well it's not like anything they've played before.

I have a couple players who will tune out if they have to learn something new that isn't easily understood or teachable during play.

Wibbs

@MadMAxJr I read the rulebook for that once then laughed hysterically

Far too rules complex for me

Pureferret

@MadMAxJr but what makes the system special?

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr I often get the same feeling. I had a great experience with this latest new system though. I'm not sure I can really encapsulate why it worked, but it had to do with making the characters in stages, doing a "coming of age" scenario (a tutorial session) with really simple mechanics (like, just the resolution mechanic), and then continuing to build the rest of the character.

It's made for a really lengthy chargen process so far, but interspersed with roleplaying, and it's resulted in very quick immersion into the setting.

MadMAxJr

@Pureferret I'm not sure any one thing makes it stand out. In comparison to what we play, it's more detailed and specific with stats.

Pureferret

17:53

@Wibbs it can't be as complex as twilight 2012

Wibbs

@Pureferret not heard of that one

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret That's not saying much though!

MadMAxJr

I think I have a copy of Twilight around here... Post apoc setting, first third of the book is fluff?

SevenSidedDie

Might as well imply that Twilight 2012 can't be that hard to get interest in, since it's not as complex as Aftermath!'s system. :)

Wibbs

@SevenSidedDie what's the deal with posting a link to a review of an awful RPG that is extremely NSFW in places in chat?

and also hilarious

SevenSidedDie

17:58

Are we talking FATAL here?

Wibbs

yep

Pureferret

@SevenSidedDie it has three difficulty settings, the hardest level makes you use a graph for calculating firearm damage based on range

SevenSidedDie

@Wibbs I think probably wise to leave it unlinked, but give enough info for determined searchers to find it. That's not mod direction speaking though, that's me suggesting erring on the side of caution.

Wibbs

Fair enough

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret I don't have personal experience, but my understanding is that Aftermath! is even moreso like that.

Pureferret

18:00

@SevenSidedDie wow

MadMAxJr

I'm going to backtrack to @Lord_Gareth and suggest we embrace bear-based RPG gaming.

Wibbs

For anyone interested in a hilarious review of one of the worst and most complex RPGs ever, search for "playing fatal rpg" on google. You'll want the link about 4 down whose title refers to Character Creation

SevenSidedDie

@MadMAxJr I think embracing bears is generally a dangerous course of action.

3

Wibbs

and the campaign journal on Giant in the Playground is worth a look as well

SevenSidedDie

@Pureferret This review of Aftermath! gives a taste, but sadly only hints at the more zOMG levels of complexity.

Twilight 2012 is definitely in the top most complex RPGs though. That, with Phoenix Command and Aftermath! are probably a holy trinity of complexity.

SevenSidedDie

18:39

@DavidReeve @doppelgreener I imagine this is related to the bamwar:

We deflected a major spam cartel today that has been plaguing all kinds of sites. 30 or so people noticed. I'm calling that a win.

Tweeted by tinkertim on May 13, 2015 at 6:32 PM

David Reeve

18:56

hooray

sillyputty

19:30

I've been reading the rpgnet review of fatal...why? I thought the world was a good place...

BESW

19:48

@Lord_Gareth Try again when it's not 3am.

@sillyputty Check out deadEarth next!

sillyputty

@BESW will it improve my mood, or will it drag me further into filth?

BESW

Jul 6 '14 at 6:39, by lisardggY

No, I do not recommend deadEarth. I do recommend reading the review and laughing hysterically.

in deadEarth: The Chargenning, Dec 22 '14 at 14:17, by BESW

I find something illogically cathartic and relaxing in making deadEarth PCs. It should be infuriating, enraging, and frustrating, but instead it's some sort of zen exercise in deliberate futility. Like sweeping a dirt path, or drawing water with a sieve.

SevenSidedDie

deadEarth is not so much with the filth, as more with the complex non-functioning of its rules, especially chargen. It does have some "choice" bits of misogyny, but the functional badness is so overwhelming that those few notes seem almost an afterthought and are easily missed unless you're combing the d1000 tables for them.

Or were they d10,000 tables? I forget.

BESW

20:05

d1000.

SevenSidedDie

Thank goodness for that.

BESW

20:48

@DrewS Hi!

DrewS

@BESW Hello :)

I guess I hit it just right, usually whenever I drop in there's nobody active

BESW

North America's business day is winding down, the Pacific is just barely starting up.

@Codeacula [wave]

Grubermensch

@BESW Winding down on the East Coast. It's the middle of the day for me in SF.

But it does seem like most of our NA users are in the East

DrewS

@Grubermensch Speaking as someone living on the East Coast of North America, yes, there are definitely too many people living here.

Codeacula

21:17

@BESW [wave back]

Pureferret

21:45

Roughly where are people?

I'm UK based

DrewS

@Pureferret New England

Grubermensch

@Pureferret San Francisco

DuckTapeAl

22:33

Massachusetts.

BESW

22:53

Desk in the third bedroom.

Also Guam.

Pureferret

@DrewS sounds Miskatonic

@Grubermensch sounds shakey

@DuckTapeAl sounds...Uh...

@BESW do you need me to throw you a sock?

BESW

@Pureferret Miskatonickier?

@Pureferret Actually I'm in a coffee shop now. Usually I work out of home, but the power's out and I need Internets.

I guess the chat just picked up my last entry when I got back online?

Grubermensch

@Pureferret There have been maybe two or three noticable earthquakes since I moved out here 9 months ago.

BESW

I'll just leave this here.

I believe that this Cedar & Citronella sunscreen repels mosquitoes. Unfortunately, the smell is glorious and attracts bees.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 13, 2015 at 9:46 PM

BESW

23:28

Hmm. I'm trying to think of something extra-cool I can add to a normal ARRPG session this weekend.

It's the last normal session before I go off-island for several weeks, so I don't want to interrupt the story more than it's already being interrupted by my absence--but I also want to make it special for the players, because we'll have a hiatus, and because we may have some new players, and because it's my birthday.

Adeptus

@Pureferret Australia

(...which could also be an answer to BESW's question)

BESW

Unfortunately, Australia's Internet is down.

Miniman

@BESW Wait, it is?

Am I posting by magic???

BESW

Well, the bit of Australia that usually joins us for Geek Night.

So, you know, the Australia that counts.

Miniman

Oof.

BESW

23:35

[patpat]

Adeptus

23:52

Hey wow, I just got the Necromancer badge!

BESW

Grats.

Miniman

@Adeptus Nice!

Does anyone else think that it's weird that it's so much harder to get the Revival badge than the Necromancer?

BESW

@Miniman Sorry, that was a bit too flippant. What did you mean "Australia could also be an answer"?

Miniman

@BESW I didn't say that :P

23 mins ago, by Adeptus

(...which could also be an answer to BESW's question)

BESW

Wait, no, you didn't.

Bah.

Adeptus

23:54

@BESW I don't know... seemed like a good idea at the time? :P

The Marsupials have decided it is time to return to Marsupia?

There's a massive upsurge in Possum Magic levels?

BESW

The koalas have resolved their age-old feud with eucalyptus and the two groups are now teaming up to take over the world?

@Adeptus I knew that phrase sounded familiar.

Adeptus

The Sydney "Opera House" reveals its true purpose?

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