TRPG General Chat

doppelgreener

00:03

@Emrakul Tell me about the class stuff you want me to review sometime later! :) also tell me about that stuff that impresses you about c#?

user61230

@doppel Sure, I can do that later tonight! I'm actually heading out now, though. Here's a github link if you feel like poking through it.

doppelgreener

@Emrakul I will do this poking!

user61230

ow!

doppelgreener

Ha-haaaa! Take it!

user61230

Owwwww stapppiittt

doppelgreener

00:17

Careful what you wish for boy! Learned a lesson now I bet, 'aven't you!

[hopefully Emrakul has watched the Mighty Boosh and can read this in the Hitcher's voice]

doppelgreener

02:33

@Emrakul Immediate points of feedback from a browse:
• Expand the names of your enum values. CHAR, DT, CO, POS_M, etc - expand these to their full names, don't use contractions or abbreviations unless the name would be SUPER long. If it is super long, pick something close and document the full name. You will gain readability and code comprehension, and autocomplete will help you deal with the longer writing. Collaborators will thank you. Future-you will also thank you one month from now when you've completely forgotten how a particular class works and need to fiddle with it.

Also, a consideration: are there Characters who don't have Life paths, or operate on different rules to player characters? Does every PC and NPC use the same universal systems?

If the answer to that is no, you may want to turn the Character into an Entity which could have a Lifepath component added to it, and could have a Race component, and so on. If there are different possible Lifepath rules (e.g. NPCs having mocked-up lifepaths arrived at through different means), you can add different types of Lifepath objects. If a character won't have a Lifepath, don't give it a Lifepath object.

@Emrakul If by chance you are unfamiliar with the shape of Entity-Component systems, you may want to read Evolve Your Hierarchy to get a basic idea, and I will do my best to answer questions.

Are you familiar with them? I can't remember if you've said.

@Lord_Gareth Hi!

doppelgreener

03:13

(I am now googling and restudying some entity-component system stuff like this explanation, since it's been a while and I never found good tutorials on it when I originally studied it)

Lord_Gareth

YOU DARE SUMMON GARETH?

doppelgreener

@Lord_Gareth You were already here! You left without saying hello! I am deeply hurt.

Lord_Gareth

Then I have succeeded as a Dark Lord

doppelgreener

Nooooo!!

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

Lord_Gareth

[Cue villainous laughter]

David Wilkins

03:25

Blech.

Lord_Gareth

No, bwahahahahhahaha

Blech is what the villain from Super Paper Mario says

David Wilkins

My party came across a pool of acid 20 feet square and we can't come up with a way to get across

Iron Heart

@Lord_Gareth No, that's with a k, isn't it?

Miniman

@DavidWilkins Still 5e?

David Wilkins

4e group

Miniman

03:27

Tenser's magical disc is still in 4e, right?

David Wilkins

We're all level 1

Miniman

Ah. At level 1, my guess is that you'll have to come up with a mundane solution.

David Wilkins

I have no idea. A boat will dissolve, someone could fall stringing or climbing across a rope

I could cast my spirit companion on the other side, but would I know what it sees?

The wizard can summon a fire warrior, but that blows his daily

The acid is 3 feet deep in a 4x4 area, so we cant neutralize it

Some of the squares have acid raining down, but there is a straigt shot along the right hand wall with no squares raining acid

Miniman

I don't know anything about 4e, so I can't really advise.

David Wilkins

We were told that freezing the acid may let us get across, but none of us can do that

Ah well...5e tomorrow, but this will consume me.

At least I got to see the most dramatic 1.5 minutes of hand egg ever

doppelgreener

03:39

@David Where is this pool of acid?

Is it in a dungeon or something?

I wonder if there is a means available of digging through the walls.

one of our mods, Brian, has a practice of always carrying a pick-axe with him - albeit in pre-4e editions - and digging through walls behind doors, and so on. IIRC his group finds it a little frustrating sometimes. c(:

David Wilkins

We are in a castle in a 4 square wide hall

Our foe has done a lot of damage to the castle, but searching for other entrances has proved counterproductive

Miniman

Is any of your party a professional engineer? It might be possible to build a bridge.

David Wilkins

I don't think so. We have a wilden warden, a shardmind (I think) psion, an elf barbarian, a human wizard, and a human shaman

Oh. The elf is hybrid barbarian pally

Miniman

If it's a castle, it would have dungeons/cellars/basements, right? Could you blow a hole in the floor to drain the acid out?

David Wilkins

That was suggested, but we went upstairs to get to the acid hall... an relative to the stairs theres flat roomage.

Below it that would be our exit route

Miniman

03:51

@DavidWilkins That's tomorrow's problem :P

Actually, seriously, if you've got some ropes climbing down to exit the castle should be easy enough, so flooding the lower levels with acid might not be a terrible idea.

David Wilkins

Can our wizard target the floor of the pool from a b ove?

Miniman

@doppelgreener Subbing you in at this point.

David Wilkins

We know it is 3 ft deep

doppelgreener

Ask your DM if he expects you to be able to get through this room, or if he's put the pit there to ward you off so you'll head elsewhere. ;P

David Wilkins

Gah

doppelgreener

03:55

i.e. ask for meta advice on whether you are wasting your time treating this like a puzzle

David Wilkins

Really though....I think thats all thats left

Miniman

Alternatively, go fight monsters until you can come back and wade through the acid without even blinking.

(It's a bit of a long-term solution.)

David Wilkins

Our enemy does seem quite powerful

It was also described as a natural disaster

Very tough challenge, gladly accepted

user61230

04:58

@doppelgreener Good point on the enum values - will expand those. As for LPCalc, I was honestly beginning to think the same thing, so I'll probably offload that into its own class. Data aggregation is something I might want to leave how it is; all of my unit tests come from data that's currently in the book, so if I want to test something new, I can just add more book data.

user61230

Luckily, I don't have to deal with the possibility that a character has no lifepaths; LP selection is the first step in deciding who one's character is, so that's not possible to cut out of character generation. They sorta make up the foundation of Burning Wheel.

user61230

NPCs might be handled differently, but they're handled so drastically differently that I might just want to make a different class for them entirely (if I ever decide to add them - right now, this is mostly for individual use & tracking).

user61230

But yeah, I'll definitely read that article!

Grubermensch

Mother of God. http://t.co/7syY1dKZqc

Tweeted by TheJosephChrist on February 2, 2015 at 3:47 AM

AgentPaper

@Grubermensch I don't get it.

Grubermensch

05:08

@AgentPaper Seen Back to the Future II?

AgentPaper

Nope

Grubermensch

Ah well.... DO IT NOW

doppelgreener

05:34

@Emrakul This tutorial seems to provide a good description of how an entity component system would actually be implemented.

user61230

I shall definitely look into this! Thanks again!

doppelgreener

@Emrakul Ok. Later, then, your unit tests might want to handle: "Does this behave correctly if I give it this ill-formatted input?", "does this behave correctly if I define the same lifepath twice?", or other scenarios which might realistically occur, but which require input you'd never want to pollute the real files with. (I don't know if those would be things you'd want to test. You might!)

user61230

I'll have to use that pattern for some things like random weapon modifiers on arrow tips which would otherwise be a pain to code.

doppelgreener

behaving correctly with ill-formatted input would, of course, be testing to make sure it fails properly with the right kind of error.

@Emrakul yes, you would almost certainly want to begin using ECS when you begin creating weaponry.

user61230

Hmm... that's true. I'm sort of trusting that none of the fields in the JSON are non-empty at the moment...

doppelgreener

05:40

ECS is well-suited to a scenario where you're dealing with many kinds of objects, and each kind of object behaves differently to each other kind of object, but all of the objects exhibit behaviour found in other (but not all) objects.

that basically describes everything that exists in a reasonably complex game.

user61230

I'll probably end up using that for weapon computations. Because dear gods, there are so many obnoxious little calculations.

doppelgreener

@Emrakul have a test case set up so that you know when a field is empty that needs to be non-empty, your code will fail at a certain position with X error.

that way it doesn't gladly accept the input and do something unexpected with it, then fail at some other point down the line that leaves you having to hunt "why is it doing this?"

user61230

"Why is NullReferenceException !! !"

doppelgreener

yarp

user61230

yeah, the JSON is super useful like that, but also yeah, should be tested

doppelgreener

05:45

"Why does it crash when I use arrows on someone with a shield..?"

[dive into arrow and shield logic, not realising that a field in the shield JSON was defined erroneously but accepted silently]

user61230

yeah, the JsonDeserialize is super useful, but also just lets things become null if it can't make sense of it

user61230

which is really only mildly helpful behavior

doppelgreener

yar

user61230

okay, so my tweak todo list is: fix skill/trait requirement calculation, trap null fields in JSON, expandify enums, and move the LPCalc to its own helper class

Grubermensch

Ahem: newtonsoft.com/jsonschema

For your JSON validating needs

Erp, has costs, so maybe not what you want

user61230

05:48

mhm! I'm using Json.NET in this, so it automagically makes sure the Json isn't completely illegal

user61230

nah, not the parts I'm using

Grubermensch

JSON Schema is a way to validate the types and structure of a JSON document, not just its syntax

user61230

hmm

user61230

I'll make a note of this

user61230

I'm reluctant to start validating the actual structure of the JSON quite yet, as its structure/layout might change as I get a better feel for project requirements

user61230

05:51

but once it's pretty well-set, I'll add this in

doppelgreener

by the way: consider if player characters themselves are something you'd want an ECS thing for. also, you may want NPCs in there because the GM could be using this tool too.

user61230

ehh, it's not really intended to be used to track NPCs at this point, honestly

doppelgreener

ok.

I'm not familiar with Burning Wheel. If I were programming a tracker for D&D 3.5e though, I'd consider that there's classes who work off spells or maneuvers or psionics, and there's lots of different subsystems, and different spell lists, and so on.

I would probably build the player characters with ECS, and plug in the mechanical subsystems they need, and the generic subsystems mostly everyone shares (like HP, abilities, etc).

user61230

hmm... I see what you're saying

user61230

but I'm reluctant to stick all the core stats in their own class

user61230

05:59

though... hrm.

user61230

yeah, I see what that would be a good idea

user61230

I feel like it could make things nasty, though

user61230

for instance, someone's reflex score determines how many actions they have in a round

user61230

but an NPC without the necessary components to create a reflex score has to have a way to have actions in an exchange

doppelgreener

Case Study: Bomberman Mechanics in an Entity-Component-System

Lord_Gareth

06:13

@doppelgreener Hold me the boss is going to release one of my supplements soon and I'm scared T_T

doppelgreener

@Emrakul i'll offer my thoughts soon

@Lord_Gareth [holds, pats, bakes something tasty for]

Lord_Gareth

[Flails in terror of judgement]

It's the one I made full of additional content aimed at Wilders

And, like...a lot of it is kinda stealth-fixes because Wilder is not the greatest thing DSP has ever done

And it also involved lots and lots of stuff I had never previously done.

Archetypes, powers, psionic feats...

doppelgreener

You are going to release something horribly broken and absurdly fun regardless

or something

Will people notice the stealth-fixes and use them and fix their wilders without realising it?

Lord_Gareth

06:28

@doppelgreener That's kinda the idea? Like, they already sort of do this by favoring specific options that don't have the problems being fixed.

So these fixes enable cool content that is otherwise too risky to love

doppelgreener

06:49

\o/

Okay, that sounds kinda good.

I'm wondering now, did you introduce archetypes to fix broken parts of Wilders, and feats to sort of supersede previous ones that weren't all that good?

Iron Heart

spoilers: yes?

Lord_Gareth

@doppelgreener Not so much the archetypes, though I did do an archetype that supports an underused part of Wilder

But the feats definitely, letting them spend feats as a resource to mitigate some of the more horrific flaws.

doppelgreener

@Emrakul thoughts on this: you do not need to stick all the core stats in their own class. However, you may want to do this so that the core stat class can handle all of its own logic, without making the Character class have to define how the core stats work. I.e.: you compartmentalise the logic. (This isn't necessarily operating on an ECS level though, just an OOP level)

@Emrakul Also i'm not sure, is this something suggesting introducing NPCs would make some things nasty?

@Lord_Gareth Woo. \o/ With added benefits?

user61230

@doppelgreener well, all stats and skills will need to come from one class to start with anyway

user61230

because each stat and skill has seven associated values

Lord_Gareth

06:55

@doppelgreener In most cases, yes. For instance, there's one that lets you transmute PP loss into HP loss (PP loss is a lot worse, trust me) and also combine Overchannel with Wild Surge, etc, etc

doppelgreener

if they do have added benefits I wonder how people would react. I'm saying this envisaging a feat that fixes an awful feature, not just by making it not-broken, but actually giving the Wilders something awesome on the power level features are supposed to be at.

Lord_Gareth

Additionally, Wilders got new toys of a variety they did not possess previously, in the form of feats that give new uses for their surge and powers that have additional effects when surged

Like Countersurge, where you swat spells down with the power of your RAEG

doppelgreener

@Lord_Gareth that sounds exciting.

Lord_Gareth

And then in terms of the powers you have Surge Augmentations, which either improve powers or add new capabilities if you use your Wild Surge when manifesting them

Which gives Wilders a dimension of use for those powers that no one else gets to have ever.

We're wanting to peel through the old powers with an eye to adding those

The trouble is that for, really, no good reason at all

Wilders learn less than 1/2 the powers that their closest neighbor does, and they learn them a level late

So new uses for existing powers are a great way not only to make Wilder seem more distinct from its sibling, the Psion, but to justify the reduced utility

Because, honestly, the stuff Wilder got "in exchange" for losing all that...is terrible.

1.5 x level more hit points on average, a better BAB that will never be relevant, AC bonuses that don't scale fast enough to be meaningful (at any level, thus requiring you to get an AC power anyway), a blast that's slightly more pitiful than weapon-based attacks, and, the only actually cool thing, your Surge Bond

Which sadly is not always cool because some of them are terrible

doppelgreener

07:13

what if you released a Wilder II?

Lord_Gareth

I freaking wish.

doppelgreener

Can't?

Lord_Gareth

I fought tooth and nail to be able to do that, but it's not going to happen, for a lot of reasons. The biggest one is that there are no take-backs in professional publishing.

In homebrew, I can nuke the thread and start again.

But people purchased the book - in some cases, two books - with the current Wilder in it. And, admittedly, for all its flaws and identity issues and weird grafted parts, if you squeeze it hard enough you still have a T2 manifester in there, beneath the layers of extraneous crap

The issue is the layers of obfuscating features have made it hard to define Wilder as its own person, as it were

A total re-write would solve the problem, yes, but since that's not available I'm instead supporting the Wilder's nascent identity with supplementary content

And the good news is, the classes around Wilder already have very strong personal identities, so the new stuff doesn't threaten their niches or take away from their personality

Does that make sense, @doppelgreener?

doppelgreener

Yes. I don't think the no take-backs mean you can't release a new thing (heck, D&D 3e was there when they released D&D 3.5e), but it does mean that people who have spent money on the original wilder might now consider it dead content because there's a new version.

Lord_Gareth

@doppelgreener 1pp gets away with a lot of things 3pp can't. We're held to higher standards by our much-smaller customer base.

WotC could eat the PR hit. We can't.

doppelgreener

07:26

This stuff makes sense. What's the PR hit from though? "How dare you make the Wilder obsolete" as well as "I thought the Wilder was good, how dare you sell us bad content"?

Lord_Gareth

A combination of folks not seeing problems with Wilder, overwriting content people paid to get hard copies of, having to re-write existing support content to play nice with the new version of the class, having to re-write existing alternate features to play nice with the new version of the class, and the fact that we could not afford to produce such an update free of charge.

doppelgreener

07:39

Yeah, RPGs aren't in the privileged position of being able to do things like Starbound and TF2 can

Lord_Gareth

Indeed. Not even in the age of PDFs

doppelgreener

@BESW Hi! How'd the training go?

How did having a blind student change the lesson, too?

BESW

Well! Apparently the thing about the blind student was a mix-up; that's another class coming later, and will be one-on-one.

trogdor

that is good news

to a degree at least

BESW

So I had three lovely ladies from Chuuk, and we talked about all sorts of things over lunch, and it was generally nice.

Trogdor, you remember Richard Benson, right? One of my students worked with him back when he was a judge on the FSM Court.

doppelgreener

07:54

Sounds like it went pretty well. :)

BESW

08:22

Yeah, pretty well. I'm still totally bushed, though.

trogdor

@BESW I think I do, a little

doppelgreener

Fermi bubbles: our galactic disc has two enormous bubbles of gamma radiation of uniform consistency above and below its centre and nobody knows conclusively why yet.

BESW

@doppelgreener Ah, yes. Clevinger tweeted about them.

doppelgreener

@BESW that's how I found out. :)

trogdor

10:15

lol

"welcome to the afterlife, here is your hug" XD

doppelgreener

10:41

that would be a great welcome.

trogdor

it was

its a line in Gravity Ghost

a little ghost girl floats around collecting stars, and apparently reuniting animal spirits with their bones

then says things like that to them

doppelgreener

D'aw. xD

BESW

12:13

@doppelgreener [poke]

If you want to come up with something Iddy for PAL to contribute, that'd be interesting.

doppelgreener

12:33

@BESW I will think on this! (And you may poke me if there's more but for now I will sleep)

BESW

g'night.

doppelgreener

Probably something about humanity stopping progress and failing to care about important things

But I'm sure I'll later come up with something that is a piece of me put in there by accident or very close to it

BESW

Maybe something about a goal or desire of his.

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:52

morning

BESW

[wave]

Aaron

13:14

BESW

[recoils in horror]

David Wilkins

14:34

Good grief @ the fumble table war

@Aaron it's snowing its rear off here

Aaron

@DavidWilkins It already snowed like 5 inches here.

David Wilkins

I'm thinking I will try to leave work early today to prepare for tonight's 5e game (if it's still on)

Actually I might try to leave early regardless

wax eagle

yuck, we got a touch of snow in higher elevations, but it looks like it's done, and ready to start melting

David Wilkins

We're supposed to get 12 inches or more

wax eagle

I'm pretty paranoid about snow, because we're just not prepared for it around here. If it looks like we're going to get some, I'm heading home

Aaron

14:39

@waxeagle What state do you live in?

wax eagle

@Aaron N GA, almost TN

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:08

@DavidWilkins hath the question devolved further?

@waxeagle those southerners, but its totally understandable for them not to spend tax dollars on snow clearing infrastructure

wax eagle

15:25

@JoshuaAslanSmith trooth.

(tbh, and not to get too political in the early Ams) getting modern southern conservatives to spend government cash on anything is pulling teeth, let along things we don't need)

David Wilkins

15:55

@JoshuaAslanSmith No, I was just reading the comments from yesterday.

Lord_Gareth

16:07

@DavidWilkins War? I'm pretty sure the conflict itself is over, given that the one problematic answer was split to its own question and the bad suggestions have been downvoted to the depths of Hell where they belong

David Wilkins

@Lord_Gareth the fact that it went on as long as it did surprises me. Maybe I am easily surprised...

Lord_Gareth

@DavidWilkins It tripped an ancient and terrible conflict which continues to flare up on this site.

Mostly involving grogs whining and complaining that their play style is old and dying out like it deserves to for being sadistic and outdated.

Almost like the industry grew up or OH WAIT IT DID

Not that I'm bitter (he said bitterly, with a bitter expression)

David Wilkins

@Lord_Gareth I hear ya. This was my first exposure to it

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Lord_Gareth lol

that one deleted answer "Any Dm worth their salt uses a fumble table"

Aaron

Did I miss an argument or something?

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:19

that right there, that is why I avoided the hobby for 5 years before I actually got involved

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith See, I could appreciate the satire in that answer.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I did not take it as satirical

Our format doesnt handle that at all on the main site

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith "I also don't have any players, but that's okay, I can roll for those too." <-Probably the biggest hint.

Joshua Aslan Smith

ah, I literally stopped reading after the first phrase

Lord_Gareth

Also he compared it to A Modest Proposal, one of the most famous bits of satire, in which the author proposes eating Irish immigrants to solve overpopulation and hunger at the same time.

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:20

Ill go reread it for entertainment value right now

Lord_Gareth

No, for me the highlight of the whole affair was when KRyan split off the non-appropriate parts of his answer into a Q&A based entirely on data and the effect the mechanics will have on the game.

And then Myx comes in with anecdotes and then acts surprised when he's downvoted into Hell for not backing his bullcrap up.

JohnP

16:42

@Lord_Gareth is this on the alternate fumble table thread?

Joshua Aslan Smith

RPG.SE MEMBERS I NEED YOU!

JohnP

Always nice to feel needed, even if by group proxy.

Joshua Aslan Smith

There was an article about 5e's magic item scarcity where a historical economist wrote about the difficultly of trying to sell magical boots in a semi-realistic medieval economy. Does anyone know what Im talking about.

Kaz_king

D&D, 3.5 What is the Holy Equivalent of a Pit Fiend?

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith give me a moment

JohnP

16:51

projectmultiplexer.com/2014/09/07/…

That?

From this question: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47604/…

wax eagle

yep, that's the one

(at least the one I was hunting)

Lord_Gareth

@JohnP Yep.

JohnP

Too bad you can't get site rep from chat.

David Wilkins

Can someone tell me how to pronounce "Yuan-Ti" ?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@johnp no but you can get a gold star!

I treat @besw as the Yuan-Ti expert locally

but to me it reads as Yawn-tea

wax eagle

16:57

@DavidWilkins u-an-tea

David Wilkins

Two syllables for the first word...Got it, thanks @waxeagle!

wax eagle

(at least that's how I do it :))

David Wilkins

I think that sounds better that 'yawn-tea' which was also how I was reading it

JohnP

So DM'd for the first time Saturday, the biggest criticism was "You had to look up too much stuff".

@waxeagle That's how I pronounce it as well, as yuan (chinese money) is pronounced you-ahn.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@JohnP what system?

JohnP

17:25

@JoshuaAslanSmith - Pathfinder

One of the players who is a DM himself didn't like the flow when I had to look up the effects of a spell in a 6 spell rotating trap. Valid criticism, but still.

David Wilkins

I hope I am well prepared for when I start DMing for the first time

but I know I wont be

wax eagle

for stuff like that, having index cards prepped with the things you need is really helpful

David Wilkins

That's sort of what I had planned. monster stats, spells, and whatnot. Maybe even plot hooks

wax eagle

(that's something I started to do, but let my session prep lag the pas few weeks)

Joshua Aslan Smith

@johnp smack that player lol

wax eagle

17:31

(the other thing you could do is make hte players look up things you need :)

Joshua Aslan Smith

Like honestly as a first time Dm in a very rules heavy and intricate combat system like PF for a very confusing situation like that its entirely within your preview to want to see how the tactic they are using actually works

wax eagle

though that works less well

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle yeah lol

The other option is to just rule not in their favor if they want things to move fast

David Wilkins

17:47

DM's retribution. I warned one of our 4e players about that when she intentionally delayed the start of the session to mess with the DM. "You do know he can mess with your character, right?"

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha

this is the man/woman who holds the lives of your precious PCs in your hand

JohnP

@waxeagle three of the players would know it off the top of their head. two others wouldn't know what book to look in. :p

@JoshuaAslanSmith I did that for one thing. He failed in a pick arcane lock check, said "Ok, I'll take 10 and pick it", and I told him that something he did buggered up the arcane lock (I want them to have to use the chime of opening they were given gratis, 5 charges), and I don't think he liked that answer :p

Joshua Aslan Smith

So in general

unless there is a pressing time concern I just assume players take 10

David Wilkins

I think that sounds reasonable @JohnP - it sounds very similar to some of the things I have seen DMs do in the past

JohnP

18:04

OVerall, I thought it went well. I created a reason for them all to be together, sent them on their merry, and they got 5 rooms into the crawl when the player said "Oh, I have to leave at 6:30 to feed my dog". Everyone else had fun, and one of the n00bs thought it was great.

So I at least got that going for me.

(Boom. Firefly and Caddyshack reference in the same context. Your argument is invalid).

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol

wax eagle

18:32

Welcome to Ebberon: media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf

2

Joshua Aslan Smith

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW'

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH‌HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH‌HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

wax eagle

(aka the first new 5e material since launch)

Joshua Aslan Smith

wax eagle

changeling...meh, shifter, lots of different subtypes is nice.

all 3 races only get +1/+1 instead of a +2 to anything

no death save games for the warforged

Joshua Aslan Smith

good they fixed the terrible bit of rules where healing magic did not work on you as a warforged

wax eagle

18:39

@JoshuaAslanSmith definitely

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah warforged looks solid

wax eagle

Artificer looks interesting, but niche. Dragon marks make sense

and...that's everything

oh wait, Haven't mentioned action points yet

get 5+1/2 level per level, can add d6 to any d20 roll before or after you know the result. Or convert a death save to a success

lol, as Dave the Game just pointed out on Twitter, a lot of my favorite gaming tweeps are on a boat this week

a boat I kinda wish I was on...it looks fun

jococruisecrazy.com

Joshua Aslan Smith

theres a small con in the philly area coming up for board games and rpgs

trying to decide if I go

wife should be out of the boot and walking again at that point so its possible

its just I have the worst stereotypes about any cons from my experience at gameshops and when my sister used to go to cosplay cons

wax eagle

understandable. I've only been to one Con, Dragon Con years ago, only for a day. really want to go back and stay down there, but it's hella hard to get a room and it's expensive. I feel like at this point if I'm going to go to a con, my time/money would be better served somewhere smaller like Reaper Con

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah thats in hotlanta?

or am I thinking about a different con

wax eagle

18:48

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah it is

we have a local con here in town that I might try to go to, but I'm not sure how fun it is (I mean like the huge headline guest this year is Timothy Zahn)

and Nicholas Brendan

David Wilkins

I'm super excited about that action points addition

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh man

I like that you can use it to not fail a death save

especially good for avoiding those crit fail death saves

wax eagle

yep

@DavidWilkins makes me want to go re-read that section of the DMG

Aaron

ugh. My nose. I hate colds

wax eagle

adding a new wizzy tradition instead of a new class makes sense for the aritificer

would have been nice to see another subclass or two in there though

Joshua Aslan Smith

18:58

I really need to read the whoel thing front to back while caffineated and markoff the best bits

wax eagle

(don't know enough about eberron to know what should be there)

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah same here, I haven't read it through yet

Joshua Aslan Smith

Artificer definitely had to be there for eberron with its magic-tek setting

Aaron

How much is all the 5e stuff right now? I would look but I am at work.

wax eagle

yes

Joshua Aslan Smith

5e like 4e eschews pistols so no gunslingers and I think thats fine

that would introduce way too much

wax eagle

18:59

@Aaron core books list at 150 for all 3, let me check amazon for current prices

Joshua Aslan Smith

@aaron its like 30 a book on amazon I believe

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