TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:27

(source)

Adeptus

01:26

There's another custom 3d-printed miniatures Kickstarter here: kck.st/1AvoIsB

(HeroForge is now up & running, too. Not as flexible as their sales pitch made it sound, but pretty good. Not sure I want to spend $25 on a single mini, though)

Adeptus

01:47

Bundle of Holding has brought back the Numenera & Paranoia bundles - @doppelgreener you may be interested?

doppelgreener

@Adeptus YES.

> PARANOIA GM Screen & Mission Blender: Generate an entire mission by rolling dice until your wrist breaks

I love it.

Oh boy, Paranoia PDFs incoming

doppelgreener

02:13

@BESW Our cool RPG/SE stuff links need updating again! ^

Magician

02:23

Morning!

And you won't convince me otherwise.

@Kaz_king Maybe this post by yours truly will help. Or some around it.

Adeptus

@Magician I shall accept your premise that it is morning, on the condition that you are talking about timezones more than an hour West of me

Magician

I am not!

Adeptus

(and less than 11)

Magician

Fairly certain we share a timezone. But Morning is subjective.

Shalvenay

@Kaz_king: speaking to the linked blog post -- one thing I did for a 5e oneshot is set up a scenario where the party was keeping tabs on a skirmish force outside their means to engage directly, only to find that skirmish force #1 was marching to fight another band of skirmishers from a rival faction, set up at a bridge/village "chokepoint" area

(the party decided to watch the carnage then strike, which made life a bit more confusing, but worked out for them in the end)

Adeptus

02:33

@Magician Morning is subjective, like the first morning... Nope, doesn't sound right...

Shalvenay

@Kaz_king: so you really do want to think about building your encounters around more complex tactical and strategic pictures than your average dungeon crawl or random orc warband

Adeptus

Although... Douglas Adams tells us that time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. And it appears to be lunchtime here. So therefore, it may not be.

wax eagle

02:55

vtc: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/53541/1084

mxyzplk

@waxeagle mm, don't know that I can get behind that - what, because it didn't happen in a real game yet?

It's basically identical in nature to the previous Moonbeam question I've linked to it

wax eagle

@mxyzplk no, because there's not actually really a question there. It's "I found this cool tactic, tell me it works"

mxyzplk

(if) it works. Seems legit.

wax eagle

it's mostly a "tell me how clever I am"

(or tell me how broken this 5e tactic is)

mxyzplk

Eh, I think you're projecting. At its heart it's the same "wait, does this rule really work this way" from the moonbeam - if it's a GM saying "my player tried this" vs a player saying "hey I want to try this does it work" what's the diff? "Goodness or evilness of motivation" isn't a SE criteria IIRC. We're lawful neutral.

Like Robin Hood.

(that's an unrelated snark on every alignment debate ever)

4

Pixie

03:04

I don't know, it doesn't really seem to be asking if it works. It could be edited as such and would be a passable question in my book if it were really seeking input, but the title doesn't seem like it's actually asking for input on the functionality of the tactic. It feels more like a rhetorical question.

mxyzplk

"Am I doing something wrong?" - the question, from the question

Pixie

@mxyzplk Somehow I entirely missed that! Yeah it's fine to me then.

mxyzplk

Answer - yes or no, show your work. Seems super straightforward to me.

The Oracle

0

Q: What Do We Do With "Read The Book To Me" Questions?

Somewhat of a related question to Why Are Our 5e Questions Terrible? - questions from people who haven't read the book yet, and want us to do it for them. This is a little different from the discussion in Should a question be judged on its level of "expertise"? because these questions don't even...

discussion

mxyzplk

now if you want to close questions, read THAT mmwah hah haaa

wax eagle

03:06

lol, it's basically our homework questions

mxyzplk

Kinda, but worse than homework. It's not even "I allegedly read the book but I calculate AC how?" or even "I am just really dumb and how do you add 4 to something" but "I don't own the book and haven't read it. Tell me what it says in there."

Here's my answer, "pay WotC their $25 like everyone else"

wax eagle

the caution on those, especially with whatever the current edition of D&D is, is that some of those are simply new players who haven't learned the "how to read an RPG manual" skill, and that's more of the problem than the specific mechanic they're working on at that moment

mxyzplk

Right, and I try to make a differentiation between those and "I do not own it" or "I have not read it." Read it and clueless - fine, but that's the table stakes.

wax eagle

K, as long as that's our bar

mxyzplk

Heck, even "I am trying to read it but the Gygaxian prose makes my eyes bleed"

Pixie

03:16

So the Hague book arrived...

This doesn't actually look perfectly like the image I recall -- but it's sure as heck closer than anything else! It's entirely possible that the memory is corrupted. (Also, this isn't the sea witch but the cauldron steam turning into terrible shapes.)

AgentPaper

03:40

Another CGP Grey video since there isn't one on the sidebar right now:

Middle earth explained

KRyan

04:22

gotta say, I'm with @mxyzplk on this one

the question is possibly salvageable -- I rather like RS Conley's answer, and had the question been written in a way that encouraged that answer I'd have likely upvoted it -- but as-is it's pretty obviously an attempt to avoid buying the book. The user's behavior in response has also been... unpleasant

On the other hand, though, the question also could have been quite valid in a "I'm considering buying this book, and trying to decide if it's worthwhile to me. One thing I feel like I could really use is some guidance on handing out non-combat XP; how well is that topic covered in the book?" seems like a really valid, useful question

and I'm also really not a fan of judging a question based on "why it's being asked," especially when the judgment is really based on "why we think it's being asked"

Miniman

But there are some questions that are quite clearly just 'reading is hard hey look site read for me plz'

KRyan

@Miniman right, but why a question is being asked is not nearly as important as whether or not the underlying question is good

like, if the underlying question is good, the correct response is to edit the question to improve it, and then answer it (without copyvio issues, ideally)

but if it is not, then the best response is to just to downvote it to oblivion and leave it unanswered

BESW

For values of "good" which are heavily defined by the site's guidelines and scope, yes.

KRyan

@BESW of course

> I'm having trouble handing out non-combat XP in my 5e games, and was considering buying the DMG: would it help with this?

seems like a pretty reasonable/good question to me

BESW

04:37

'cause we see a LOT of "but it's a good question!" where "good" is based on some other rubrick and used to justify a violation of guidelines or scope.

KRyan

@BESW of course

that recent HP/damage flowchart thing

although that was more of a "but I have a good answer!"

BESW

@Adeptus What should I put in the HF tooltip?

It's time! We're doing a special EXTRA LONG live stream of #FateCore tabletop roleplaying! Trying out #ARRPG today: http://twitch.tv/thursdayknights

Tweeted by ThursdayKnights on December 23, 2014 at 9:35 PM

Miniman

@KRyan Which is even less valid.

KRyan

@Miniman right, which is why it was closed. The author... did not like that.

BESW

To be fair, it started with a really poorly-advised comment on another post telling him he should do it.

So having the community come down on him so hard for acting on community advice must've been kinda whiplashy.

KRyan

04:56

@BESW mm

but the meta post got very "how dare you have rules?"

BESW

Well, yes, it escalated.

BESW

05:53

Urrrrrgh. Spent days on this project, was five minutes from completion when I discovered that it was totally unusable because of a hidden setting in some of the client's original content that I'd used as a jumping-off point for the whole thing.

Mumble grumble starting over from near zero.

Shalvenay

06:30

yuck

BESW

07:36

VTC off-topic

doppelgreener

07:50

@miniman @besw @kryan I just weighed in on the meta Q, could you give it a look over?

at least I am pretty sure this was the case y'all were talking about.

@BESW oof, voted.

@BESW is your spoil lair safe to enter?

BESW

Not yet, let me buffer it.

Okay, it's buffed.

doppelgreener

so buff.

Grubermensch

08:25

Soooo close to 3k.... sooooo clooooossseeeee

BESW

10:45

...mmm, vegan pumpkin chocolate chip cookies.

BESW

10:58

What is a good way to represent Strength Through Ruthless Application of Knowledge, in the context of the power a group can bring to bear on a physical conflict?

Magician

In Fate?

BESW

Yes, so--narratively.

Weird setting: knowledge of Science and Magic should be the order of the day.

Magician

Well. For Fate an idea I immediately had is a stunt that gives you +3 instead of +2 when you invoke a pre-existing character or scene aspect (not yours).

BESW

I'm thinking, like, something about the way the group approaches physical conflict, perhaps re-framing it to suit their ends.

I've got a cult to introduce.

I want their entrance to tell a lot about who they are, what they value, and how they operate.

Specifically, their focus on ruthless application of the belief that Knowledge is Power in its rawest, purest form.

Magician

Stretch how they use aspects? Invoke them in unexpected manner. If it's a Stormy Night, have one organize a lightning strike.

Hell, let one roll Science(anatomy) as the attack skill

BESW

11:22

The relephant player logged in and is talking to me a bit about the cult (his PC was a member several decades ago), so maybe I can narrow down some themes.

The primary purpose of this cult is to provide his PC with interesting temptations and manipulations.

Miniman

@Grubermensch Almost 9k...which means nothing, but is almost almost 10k. So really I should have just said almost almost almost 10k.

Purple Monkey

11:39

I have a general question that might not be worth making a thread about. Does anyone have a better way to grid a whiteboard? I'm using permanent marker at the moment but it just gets erased along with the sharpie and it's a pain in the butt to constantly re-rule the lines.

BESW

@PurpleMonkey Take a knife--like an X-Acto blade--and score the lines into the board.

You don't have to cut deep; the marker will be caught by the lines.

Alternately: laminate a large paper grid and use window markers on it.

Purple Monkey

Unfortunately I don't have access to a laminater. Thankfully though, I don't use the whiteboard for anything else, so scoring might just work

BESW

I had a local copy shop laminate the grid which came with the D&D 3.5 DMG, and it's lasted me seven years of weekly use including traveling halfway across the world multiple times.

(As a bonus, it rolls up nicely for travel.)

BESW

12:10

@PurpleMonkey Alternately: cut really thin lines of black tape and lay them over the board.

(The trick is finding the right kind of tape; I've never done it myself so I can't speak to it.)

doppelgreener

12:29

black electrical tape could work, though something with a grain would also be helpful.

BESW

Electrical tape often has a tendency for its adhesive to... leak.

doppelgreener

oh yeah. :(

Purple Monkey

I though about using masking tape initially, but once you've gone over with a marker it doesn't rub off, so it's hard to define the borders you're trying to draw

doppelgreener

Permanent marker will stain the board if you let it stay there for a few days - or a couple of weeks, the longer the better.

The darkest parts will still wipe off with the whiteboard marker, which will leave the gridlines fainter than those you'd otherwise draw.

(which in this case probably works to your benefit)

BESW

12:53

What's the tech equivalent of reading Tarot cards?

doppelgreener

generating random numbers or sigils from a limited sequence

"the computer generated twenty!" "oh no! not twenty! we're doomed!" "no, that's a good sign, remember, it means new beginnings"

BESW

Hmm.

I'd like something a bit more flavorful.

doppelgreener

Sigils then that are thought to mean something. Tarot cards are just a sort of random number generator, where the numbers are the cards and the randomness comes from shuffling them and choosing randomly, and then the results you get are supposed to be interpreted as meaning something. So, random number generator.

Aaron

Morning

doppelgreener

Also, the best random number generators actually run off environmental sources: the static electricity generated by an unused USB port, for instance, is often a pretty good random number generator source. So that would draw the random generation from the world!

BESW

13:01

@Aaron [wave]

doppelgreener

[thinking on it, though, trying to determine if there's read-the-future type tech stuff]

BESW

@doppelgreener You're thinking of Tarot too objectively, I think. In the context of the occult, it's not a random number generator: it's a channel for guiding the expression of an individual's mystic energies.

You don't get random cards when you lay out the Tarot: you get exactly the right cards to answer your question.

doppelgreener

i have done tarots exactly once in the context of having a glimpse of the future, i have never heard of this guiding mystic energies thing. would you care to explain?

BESW

The exact details vary wildly depending on the tradition you're looking at, but the basic idea is rooted in the notion that the world works like a story: certain kinds of current events exist because they foreshadow future events. The future event causes the present one.

Within the context of this belief in the nature of time (that future events reach back to cause present ones), there are certain circumstances in which it can be known that an event is a foreshadowing. If the individual and the ritual is attuned properly, one can "force" the controlled randomness of the Tarot--or the bones, and so forth--to become affected by the future event you wish to gain knowledge of.

(Alternately, every event of a certain type is a foreshadow--like the tea leaves left in the bottom of a cup--but only certain people are able, through training and/or insight, to correctly understand the nature of the future event which influences them.)

In either case, the supposedly random set of limited outcomes of an action--like drawing cards from a deck--is no longer truly random, and just as you can know where an object fell in the water by examining the ripples, you can examine the cards to know something about the event(s) which influence them.

Joshua Aslan Smith

good morning

Right, its a great tool as a GM to generate story archetypes on the fly

BESW

13:13

This is the foundation of most beliefs in divinations, omens, prophecies, and so forth, though it's rarely articulated quiet so baldly as "the world is a story and we can understand it in terms of narrative devices."

Joshua Aslan Smith

whether you reveal these to the players or not depends on the game and how meta it is

doppelgreener

Hrm. In the last case you're looking for a chaotic event that only certain people can 'correctly interpret', such as the junk memory left over after a program is closed and/or the bits scrambled. (Background: every program stores information in RAM, and reserves its section of RAM. When the program closes, those variables are still there, but the space is freed up. Another program can read those same variables if it has the same addresses and understands how to read them.)

that thematically is pretty much the same as the leaves left at the bottom of a teacup.

BESW

I'm thinking about a technological sibyl.

A fortune teller who reads some kind of electronic/cyberpunk/digital version of the Tarot.

doppelgreener

Is an important element that they actually manually choose the signals they get? (as in tarots, where you manually choose the cards you pick up.)

BESW

Yes, I think so.

Have you seen Live and Let Die?

doppelgreener

13:16

[thinks]

Joshua Aslan Smith

the ritual is part of the anticipation

doppelgreener

unfortunately not

Joshua Aslan Smith

but also in tarot mystique both the person for whom the fortune is being read and the diviner influence the deck in some way

BESW

In Live and Let Die, the villain has a fortune teller who reads the Tarot to give him advance warning about his enemies and provide insight to make his plans.

doppelgreener

also, i'm coming from a perspective where tarot and other precognisance rituals were borne of seeing patterns in the universe's chaos and making meaning out of them, sometimes problematically vague enough we could eventually match them to things that happened and say "the cards were right! it took ten years, but they were right!"

BESW

13:18

She can only give him answers to the questions he asks, though.

@doppelgreener Aye, and I'm inclined to be right there with you (for the most part) in real life. But in the context of our game....

Joshua Aslan Smith

Right, within a narrative context it can mean much more

BESW

I'm thinking of a sibyl in the game as a way to give an enemy great power--but also an obvious hook for the players to remove one of the enemy's advantages and perhaps turn it in their own favour.

doppelgreener

my thinking is: if you want a digital equivalent, everything comes down to numbers. upon them you may lay any meaning you like: 01000001 can mean 65 in base 2, which can mean capital A on the standard ASCII table, or can mean an instruction to delete a section of the hard drive in machine language. they would know this, but they would also know you can lay meaning on those numbers.

BESW

Hmmm.....

oooer. okay, got it. [spoilers]

doppelgreener

digitally, the equivalent of the tarot cards would be: pick, say, 32 sections of memory, generate random numbers in them, then choose eight sections to look at. Interpret the contents.

(powers of 2 like 32 and 8 are, of course, nice round numbers.)

(compared to a number like 10. that's 1010 in binary! Yuck!)

alternately: listen to a network port that's just receiving noise. interpret its meaning.

BESW

13:30

I found the key I was looking for: the source of the randomness is important.

It can't just be an RNG. It must have some kind of significance, some power lent it by ritual or tradition or association.

doppelgreener

that's it.

that was missing indeed.

BESW

Static from the Sacred Port of Turing, or cosmic noise, or random numbers generated by taking the seventh letter of every email from the Vatican.

doppelgreener

hehehe.

those will do it.

cosmic noise i.e. the cosmic background microwave radiation i.e. the energy of creation itself?

BESW

(Skin Horse has an AI defined by feeding the contents of all emails sent by all employees of an international corporation through a complex set of algorithms.)

doppelgreener

wow. xD

okay! now i must sleep.

BESW

13:37

ttfn

doppelgreener

so should you or you may get poop in your stocking

goodnight!

BESW

Pretty sure Santa doesn't visit me.

I've got four days of gift-giving at the end of February (five in leap years) instead.

Zachiel

First asnwer on Arqade, accepted. Wooooo.

Also, merry Christmas to people living in the far East!

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol

@besw how goes it in the LAND OF TOMORROW

BESW

Five minutes to Christmas, and all's quiet.

Though, as I said above, Christmas isn't quite as significant for me as it is for many.

Zachiel

13:53

In the world of today, it's often less significant than it should be even for many Christians.

Merry winter festivity everyone!

BESW

Birth of Religious Founder Day was last month, and Designated Charity And Gift Time is two months away.

...and the New Year is the month after that.

Zachiel

"Around Christmas time everybody expects the others to behave"

BESW

I appreciate the sentiment and enjoy a lot of the music, but the biggest impact the holiday season has on my everyday life is that for all of December I'm afraid to drive on the roads.

Zachiel

15:00

@BESW mmmh isn't it summer there?

I fear the roads too but it's because we have snow and ice and fog here

JohnP

15:48

@BESW - Read the Amber series by Zelazny, and Nova. I was thinking that there was a hard scifi by Stephenson that featured tarot simulacra but I can't find it.

JohnP

16:02

Also, you can go along the lines of "The word gives meaning to the event". If you are waiting for something you happen, you can be awaiting, anticipating, dreading, fearing, etc. Each different way of saying the same thing gives a different outcome.

I forget the name, but one of the original Star Trek books featured them weaving a new universe with a...Hamalki? physicist, where their words and thoughts literally shaped the universe around them.

Use the tarot to paint the possibilities, and they way they describe it gives the flavor and structure.

Found it: "The Wounded Sky" by Diane Duane. (And I must say, every single one of Diane's books I've found to be outstanding.)

Zachiel

16:16

@BESW Idea: open and closed bits in a disk represent the long or short lines of I-ching runes. The randomizer that generates them is propmpted with written questions, MUD-style.

Shalvenay

18:07

@JoshuaAslanSmith -- you there?

Grubermensch

@BESW In re techno-oracles: tcpdump.

Basically the character jacks into a data line and tries to interpret what's coming over the wire, except the flow rate is so high that they are essentially reading random morsels of data as it passes them.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Shalvenay yesh

whudup gangsta

Shalvenay