TRPG General Chat

Tritium21

09:01

a quick search found a question for face to face groups..

BESW

8

Q: Finding online RPG players for a play-by-chat RPG Campaign?

I'm thinking of running a Pathfinder campaign for Skype (text only) and I don't have a group of players. How can I go about recruiting people for play-by-chat games instead of in-person? Are there any online sites in which you can look for people that are looking to play in an online play-by-chat...

Tritium21

dankoo

BESW

For the record, my search was online-roleplaying find is:question.

Pixie

Mrr, the tumblr I liked for making connections is on hiatus. I can point you in the direction of several livejournal communities, but my results have been pretty poor with those (generally people ignored everything I had written, and when they didn't, they tended to contact me once and then disappear into the void). I can also suggest roughly a million freeform sites, but that's probably not what your friend is looking for.

Tritium21

Shes looking for a game to play in so she is not always GMing

Pixie

09:10

@Tritium21 Oh, do I ever know that feeling...

Tritium21

I have offered to run a game for her, but that would split the group I think? social problems are hard

Tim B

I've got an online game running at the moment with space for 1 or 2 more - if timezones etc work out

Tritium21

What kind of game?

Pixie

@Tritium21 That answer seems pretty solid, at any rate (although I am raising my brow a little at Craigslist for online RP connections).

Tritium21

craigslist would work better for local face to face...since localized to city and all

Tim B

09:17

Pathfinder E6 Western Marches set in a custom world

lots of exploration/combat/role-playing/etc

BESW

I'm looking forward to @trogdor and @doppelgreener doing some GMing soon.

Tritium21

@TimB I passed on the offer, but she is declining

thanks for the offer

Tim B

yeah, no worries

For anyone who's interested the recruitment thread is a little out of date (as I've not been actively recruiting for a while) but it's: giantitp.com/forums/…

Tritium21

On a related note... are there high fantasy settings that are not reminiscent of Tolkien?

Pixie

Wish I could be of more help. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've fallen into all the tabletop I've done. I do know plothook.net and myth-weavers.com have LFGs, but I've never used their forums, just their resources.

Tim B

09:29

@Tritium21 Role playing settings specifically or just fantasy settings in general?

Tritium21

RPG Fantasy

Tim B

nothing springs to mind. There are plenty of non-tolkien fantasy settings in novels but I don't know how many (if any) of them have been converted to RPG settings

although you could always do it yourself

BESW

Define "high fantasy."

Tritium21

Medieval, magic, there-be-non-human-sentience-yonder

BESW

Archipelago is inspired by Earthsea.

Tritium21

09:37

adds to reading list

BESW

Everway is high fantasy; not sure how much you'd say it's Tolkien-like.

(I'm scrolling through my RPG folder; I don't have much high fantasy of any sort, really.)

Tritium21

What I dont want is to look at a catalog of races and classes and go "thats frodo, thats bilbo, ..."

BESW

Mouse Guard... probably doesn't qualify because it doesn't have much magic, and the Realm Guard hack doesn't because it's literally using the Mouse Guard system to play in the LotR verse.

Tritium21

Literally playing LotR is actually acceptable. Knockoffs are not

BESW

Mythic is too generic to qualify either way, I think.

Does a Westeros franchise RPG count as too Tolkien-like, or is it not high enough fantasy?

'cause, yanno, that exists.

Tritium21

09:43

I have ...opinions.... about SoIF

BESW

Legend of the Five Rings?

Tritium21

That qualifies... as long as its played as Lot5R, not D&D+OO

BESW

First Fable is a kid's high fantasy game; it's got character types like Knight and Fairy Princess.

Tritium21

... I will pass that along to friend from earlier. she is looking for something to introduce her daughter to gaming

BESW

There's a Mistborn RPG.

Qin is firmly Chinese in lore, no Tolkien need apply.

Pixie

09:47

Yeah, you could look into games with a basis in non-European lore.

BESW

Princes' Kingdom is more based in "1001 Nights meets the Monkey King" style adventures, but its fantasy level and atmosphere is totally up to the players.

Tritium21

I am being told flvminata

BESW

How We Came To Live Here is based on Anasazi culture.

@Tritium21 If you want games that are good for kids, I can do a pass looking for that, too; I've got a decent collection of those partly for research into my MLP game and partly because one of my friends has sworn me to be GM for his kids when they're old enough.

Tritium21

there is no rush on the games for kids

(its complicated)

BESW

Pilgrims of the Flying Temple, Project Ninja Panda Taco, Mermaid Adventures...

Tritium21

09:51

It suffices to say, the child is living with an aunt at the moment

BESW

Back to non-Tolkien high fantasy.

Tritium21

yus

BESW

The Zanfabulous Zorcerer of Zo is "A Fairytale RPG."

IgneusJotunn

@Tritium21 Exalted if you're lax about the medieval definition. Very eastern, Han Chinaish. Warning- may be higher fantasy than you really intended.

BESW

Oh, and there's Adventures in Oz, if that counts.

Tritium21

09:52

Exalted - should actually be easy for the group, system wise (we did a lot of WoD)

IgneusJotunn

I also want to suggest Ars Magica? It might be lower magic than you want (Magic is powerful, but a pain in the a**) but it doesn't have any LotR feels that I picked up.

BESW

Legends of Anglerre is kinda... high fantasy meets John Carter?

Tritium21

>.> I would run that as M:tA

I have a nice list of things to look into

thank you guys

BESW

Maybe Ehdrigohr, too?

Have fun!

Tritium21

builds a game pitch too

IgneusJotunn

09:57

Dungeon World depends on what playbooks you let in. I've got a cultist, a mage, an alchemist, a barbarian, and a paladin who refluffed herself as a magical girl.

I keep thinking the world should look more like LotR, and it keeps not happening.

Pixie

@IgneusJotunn And now I'm imagining LotR with magical girls...

BESW

Pretty sure Elanor Gamgee comes close.

IgneusJotunn

@Pixie All the elves shouting transformation sequences before battle. The talk at Helm's Deep that we mustn't lose hope. Gandalf in a miniskirt.

4

Some things work better than others.

BESW

@IgneusJotunn Sir Ian would oblige.

Tritium21

10:17

only one strands-of-fate question

doppelgreener

10:52

hrrrrmmmmmm.

0

Q: How to add invisible ink to a character sheet?

I am planning on running a game (not sure what system yet) with pre-made characters for a few weeks while one of my friends is back home for Christmas. I had an idea that one of the characters has blocked out a portion of his past, which he will remember once he visits a particular scene. Once t...

props

I think this has RPG-specific trappings, because you need something that will not be easily readable if you hold it up to the light, will handle rough treatment well (and withstand erasers), etc...

Tritium21

Sounds cool, overcomplicated

A stapler and index card work

Jeor Mattan

That's the price for "cool".

Tritium21

On another note, there is a free RPG for playing a game where no one at the table remembers anything.

doppelgreener

@Tritium21 Yeah, an entirely separate question would be: "How can I have an item be there 'all along'?" or something, without presuming the method is invisible ink. (But w/e, invisible ink is the effect they want.)

@Tritium21 Is that... Penny for your thoughts? :)

Tritium21

@doppelgreener No, Silent Memories, a free game by Chad Roper, intended for con or short campaign play

morningskye.com/silent-memories.html

requires a jenga tower

doppelgreener

10:59

@Tritium21 ... suddenly I am very interested. :D

Tritium21

to be fair, it is also its own published adventure

and is totally a ripoff of a movie, but it is fun as hell, even if you have seen the movie

doppelgreener

You should totally repost all of that in a single message so I can star it.

BESW

Ah, yes, another file for my "RPG MANUALS TO CATALOGUE" folder.

Tritium21

Silent Memories by Chad Roper, a game that uses a jenga mechanic for PCs to recover their memories and solve a mystery. Its based on a movie, and is its own published adventure following that movie, but is totally fun even if you have seen the movie.

4

It looks like he genericised the rules doc, so it is not so tied to pandorum

Phil

Goddam, I go to a load of effort to rewrite an answer in response to a question edit making it clear they want something system specific, and I'm still being outvoted by a very short, generic answer :/

doppelgreener

11:08

@BESW you have a folder for files for RPGs you have to file?

BESW

Yes.

doppelgreener

[fixes one-letter typo]

BESW

It's the current iteration of my ongoing "Gosh, I shouldn't just chuck all these pdfs into one big folder labelled RPG SYSTEMS" thing.

Tritium21

You may also like LUCID which is inception, but a core game mechanic is the party creates the mark.

BESW

So now I have a folder labelled DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS, a folder labelled FATE, a folder labelled BUNDLE OF HOLDING, a folder labelled OTHER SYSTEMS and a folder labelled RPG SYSTEMS TO CATALOGUE.

Tritium21

11:12

really fun when part of mark creation is asking all the players separately "Why dont you want to attack the mark" and get answer of "hes just a kid" and "hes married" ... and the GM making that work

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh, huh. I would just... download all those PDFs into one folder called SILENT MEMORIES

in fact i will do that thing that i said now

Tritium21

and theres the callback

BESW

@doppelgreener Well, yeah, but where are you putting it?

doppelgreener

@BESW dropbox

It has a folder called Books, which contains several books on programming, user experience design, game design, self-improvement, and then these folders:
- Atomic Robo
- Dresden Files (DFAE doc)
- Fate Core (kickstarter material, core and accelerated manuals, etc)
--- Fate Core Worksheets
--- Fate Patreon
- Numenera
- Silent Memories

Tritium21

my onedrive has a 'books' folder... which i need to sort

doppelgreener

11:20

when I get enough of those folders, I'll create an RPGs folder under Books, and move those folders in there. When I get enough books on each of those other topics, they'll get their own folders too.

BESW

Ah, well there you go.

I've got more than 5 GB of non-D&D, non-Fate RPG pdfs.

doppelgreener

@BESW .... my dropbox has 28gb of capacity, hahahaha

I keep doing things which totally accidentally give me more space.

"Oh you have one of these phones now? Have 10gb of space for ages!" "Oh you did this other thing? Here, have more space!"

Tritium21

Profess your love of python to the BDFL, get more space

doppelgreener

In a year though it might implode suddenly and I'll need to clean it out or pay the ~$109 a year for 1TB capacity.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Adventures in academic papers and predatory publishers: Get me off Your REDACTED Mailing List

@JeorMattan If you have tried the white crayon trick yourself before I recommend you bring your answer back describing it! It could be pretty good. Rough handling is a concern though, and the asker is looking for something that ideally can last a few weeks, so it'd be key to know how long it'll really last, hence why I mention if you've tried it.

trogdor

11:40

@BESW I look forward to doing some Gming

I think you deserve the break

and the best kind of break would be role playing a PC, I would think

doppelgreener

@trogdor me too, and I agree with all of the above ^

Jeor Mattan

@doppelgreener I can't really be bothered to do what basically amounts to copy-and-paste something from the first page of google. This question, while formulated in a lengthy way, does not show any attempt of research.

doppelgreener

@JeorMattan hrm, that might be an issue, now that you mention it

Jeor Mattan

@doppelgreener as for the durability, depends on the amount of use the character sheet actually sees. Pencil/crayon markings tend to gradually fade, being erased by rigorous use. The paper soaked with something doesn't, especially if it's developed by chemical reaction in presence of another solution, not heat.

trogdor

My only issue is figuring out what to do

I think I might want to run some kind of flashback session

I don't absoutely need to, but that might be the best first session for me to run just to get the hang of it at least

but I could probably do a normal session if I had some help prepping it

BESW

11:54

Maybe you could ~~conspire~~ collaborate with @doppelgreener.

trogdor

that could certainly work

I don't particularly want to ask you for help because that seems like defeating the purpose

but maybe the two of us could run some consecutive sessions at some point and have them planned out together

doppelgreener

@BESW conspirigate?

BESW

@doppelgreener I think that's Super Secret Spy Explosive Toothpaste.

doppelgreener

@BESW oh yes whoops

@trogdor sure, i'd be happy to do that :D

trogdor

mk

MrLemon

12:02

Hello.

trogdor

We don't have to do it that way if you don't want, but it seems like a good idea to me

Hello

MrLemon

Quick question: I seem to remember a meta talking about dndtools.eu, but I can't find it not. Does anyone remember it?

doppelgreener

well we could also do sessions that we work on together if you want any help (I'll probably want some with my own!)

BESW

@MrLemon What was the topic?

doppelgreener

i have conducted SCIENCE, and based on this SCIENCE i know that i can still 100% enjoy games for which i already know the entire plot and all the twists and so on

BESW

12:05

14

Q: Links to "D&D Tools" / dndtools.eu

I've noticed lots of links to dndtools.eu lately. That site seems to have verbatim text from a lot of non-OGL D&D stuff. Obviously, that's really useful as a reference! But the site itself is presumably violating copyright, and if it ever gets taken down, all those links become useless. Is th...

discussion

doppelgreener

dndtools.eu is down forever now. They got a cease & desist order from Wizards of the Coast. There's some parting words on the homepage.

MrLemon

@BESW It was basically debating whether or not linking dndtools is valid, on the basis that the site clearly violates copyright. The site was taken down by DMCA now, and I've seen users link google cached versions of the site instead.

BESW

Then I think this is the meta you're looking for. [gestures above]

doppelgreener

@MrLemon was it actually a DMCA claim? the front page just says it was a cease & desist

BESW

Same smell / Close enough for non-government work?

doppelgreener

12:10

@BESW it's important to me (operating in the web world) to know what DMCA actually applies to and whether someone actually used it for this case

so "got DMCA'd" is not a shorthand for "was taken down due to legal action" for me, it's shorthand for that followed by "under the DMCA".

Jeor Mattan

@MrLemon would very much appreciate a substitute for google cache, if you know one.

after all, cache is just that, a cache. its links half life is unpredictable and probably not very long.

@doppelgreener care to elaborate on how the links there have longer average lifespan? this is a serious question.

BESW

Oi, you lot. Maybe take the shady links somewhere with a bit less class?

doppelgreener

@BESW fair point actually. I kinda expect web.archive's records of the site to get purged, if they think of that

Jeor Mattan

@doppelgreener more like "when".

MrLemon

@doppelgreener good question. My head synonymed it, apparently wrongly.

IgneusJotunn

12:23

@JeorMattan Depends on how tech savvy the suits are. Probably just as inevitable as the original's demise I suppose.

Jeor Mattan

@IgneusJotunn they probably are not, but have some employees that are.

IgneusJotunn

@JeorMattan Yeah, I suppose. Lawfolk and technology seems a lot like munchkins and rulebooks- they only get it right half the time, and it's a very suspiciously selected half at that.

Jeor Mattan

What bugs me is that they probably have (however shaky) proved the profitability of such an action. It's a pity that it is probably an internal document with no chances of being published.

I mean, come on, what's the chance that people will convert to 5e (profit) after you closed down their favorite online index for 3.5?

If it is greater than zero, that is totally counter-intuitive.

</rant>

doppelgreener

12:38

@IgneusJotunn probably they'll catch up at least as slowly as they did to dndtools.eu

"Hey, all these people are linking to this site. This site has all our stuff on it. We should do something about it."

5 years from now maybe: "Hey, remember that site we got taken down that had all our stuff on it? All these people are linking to this thing called the internet archive. This site has all our stuff on it. Can we take the internet archive down?" (One exchange with the Internet Archive later.) "Oh. Well. Er. Can we take down our pages on the internet archive?"

@JeorMattan there are probably a whole lot of people crossing their fingers they release something like 4e's Compendium for 5e.

Here's hoping they do that.

IgneusJotunn

@doppelgreener Lets see, five years from now? So we'll be on D&D 6.5, with rumors of 7th ed on the horizon? Part of me wants to know how long they'll continue to care.

Aaaaand the rest of me is smart enough to know there's no good answer to that question.

Jeor Mattan

@IgneusJotunn FTFY: "no good legal answer".

IgneusJotunn

@JeorMattan I dunno, all the illegal answers look decidedly south of good.

I'll hand it a solid chaotic neutral.

Jeor Mattan

@IgneusJotunn that climbs to chaotic good if you either: are striving to end the reign of the evil tyrant OR have purchased the book in question before looking it up in a handy index. Now, what anti-monopoly laws in US look like?

IgneusJotunn

12:54

@JeorMattan Eh. They wrote it, they copyrighted it fair and square. I'm not going to call'em a tyrant for it. And lets be real- the number of people using it that actually bought all the books they looked up is not a percentage that's going to help that argument.

I'm more annoyed at the lawful stupid aspects. There's probably some reason that paying the guy for his code and sticking the site behind a $10 paywall wouldn't have worked, but some variation of that seems like it would have been a pretty neat idea.

Jeor Mattan

@IgneusJotunn to be serious, you are probably right on both points, THOUGH my point from earlier still stands - they probably will receive little to negative amount of money from closing the index.

@IgneusJotunn Yeah. Would totally agree to pay for the dndtools equivalent.

doppelgreener

@IgneusJotunn this would be a very good thing probably yes

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle shadow monk is pretty dope

Aaron

13:14

@Adeptus Pandora is good for listening to music I was hoping for a search of some sort.

Good morning all

Tritium21

13:37

@doppelgreener A DMCA take down notice is usually something you as a developer will never see. Your ISP will get it and your server will just disappear (most of the time, unless you have a REALLY AWESOME ISP that waits for you to respond before acting). This is of course, unless you are a massive company, then you see them.

if there is a site you dont like on godaddy, just send a bogus DMCA takedown notice, and it will disappear. Yes, i know this is permanently logged. If you at godaddy dont like that i made your customers so easy to abuse, fix your dmca policy

Aaron

0

Q: Are humans living creatures? By the rules, that is?

We know they are. But are they, by RAW? There are many spells and effects, especially "cure" series, that works or not depending on creature being living one or not. This question shows that in many cases it is a fuzzy thing. Is there any actual definition that makes human living creature? Or it...

dnd-3.5e pathfinder rules-as-written

Strikes Pose "What really makes us alive"

Tritium21

Can i vtc as not constructive? is that a thing?

there is no problem they are actually trying to solve

now i want to reply in comments with "do you read English?!" but that would be counterproductive

Miniman

13:53

There doesn't have to be a problem. It's just that non-problem ased questions tend not to be good questions for the site.

This one is specific and answerable.

Tritium21

True

Mourdos

I love that I just spawned a secondary question from my own >.>

Miniman

That alignment question on the other hand...

lisardggY

The alignment question is just like all alignment questions that came before it.

And all alignment questions that will come.

Tritium21

With that edit, flagged as too broad

MrLemon

14:04

On a related note to this: Do Zombies/Flesh-Eating Undead work in D&D 3.5? "A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism." Since they obviously have a body but no Con, they don't have a metabolism

lisardggY

@MrLemon Yes, explicitly: d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/ghoul

Tritium21

Ok, flagged comments to be burnninated

lisardggY

> A humanoid who dies of ghoul fever rises as a ghoul [and] hungers for the flesh of the living.

Tritium21

Zombies do not eat food and do not tire... they have no metabolism - they operate via magic, not biology

lisardggY

And part of that magical impetus can be for eating the flesh of the living. Not because of metabolism or biology, but because of Evil®.

MrLemon

14:08

Fair enough, they don't actually die when not eating, so it's not really a metabolism issue... Ghouls are just gourmets.

"Though they prefer rotting bodies and often bury their victims for a while to improve their taste..."

lisardggY

@MrLemon Not all flesh-eating zombies die from hunger either.

Depends on the franchise.

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:24

@lisardggY watch out, Evil Corp. has the best copyright laywers in the biz

VTCing the 3.5 human living question

when the OP blantantly states this isnt for a game, just wondering

it has no business on our site

Jeor Mattan

@JoshuaAslanSmith it is a valid rules question, though. answerable and already answered.

Tritium21

The question has been changed to make it unanswerable

its asking only for formal logic, where that is not how the rule is written

KRyan

@Tritium21 that is no unanswerable

Tritium21

Then answer it with a quoted rule that passes a formal logic test to make it answerable.

its not in the rules, so it cannot be answered as being both formal and rules as written

KRyan

@Tritium21 the answer, apparently, is 'no'

I have upvoted TimB's answer

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:32

@JeorMattan if its already been answered than please VTC as duplicate and link to the other question

KRyan

the difficulty of proving a negative aside, the question is answerable, yes or no is the correct answer, and until someone finds a different rules-quote (and I've looked, I'm rather sure they won't), the answer is no

@JoshuaAslanSmith he means one of the answers on the question is the answer

Mołot

So why the question that is answerable (have two good answers) about existence of a rule that caused problems for other users in similar situations already is supposedly unanswerable or not related to practical problems?

Joshua Aslan Smith

ah okay

Jeor Mattan

@KRyan care to point out where exactly am I incorrect?

Mołot

Do I have to wait untill something goes bad at my session to ask? or what?

Tritium21

14:33

Formal logic used much at your table to interpret D&D?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Mołot do you perceive one of your players bringing up this question and you being unable to defend your reasoning/common sense for why humans are living creatures?

KRyan

@JeorMattan I just saw your comment, you're right about the logic there

Mołot

Actually, when you play with academics, it is something I can imagine to happen.

Joshua Aslan Smith

In part yes SE in general tries to avoid theorycrafting problems because they either over-anticipate or under-anticipate details and circumstances that a real problem would have

KRyan

@Tritium21 At times, yes – this particular question probably wouldn’t be a thing because my table accepts that the rules around death and life are lacking, but this class of question could easily be relevant and useful at my table.

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:35

@molot you begin to enter an epistemological black hole from which there is no escape.

KRyan

@JoshuaAslanSmith I am impressed that SE recognized your 'molot' as 'Mołot'

Tridus

@Mołot Do you spend a lot of time defining "wood" if someone is using a wooden shield, too? This is so obvious that the game shouldn't even have to state it.

Tritium21

Is there any debate about what the rule, as written actually intends; that con >=1 is alive, all else not alive?

KRyan

@JoshuaAslanSmith that can be a problem, it is not automatically a problem, and arguing that a question you don't like is not valid on that basis even though it is otherwise an answerable question strikes me as disingenuous

Miniman

@Tritium21 It's not a question of what's intended

Tritium21

14:38

@Miniman For making the question not a discussion of the merits of formal logic in a game, its all that matters.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@molot If you do have genuine concern along those lines ("My players like to dissect the rules, how can I validate this to them?" Then I think you need to edit parts of the question to more appropriately reflect that. The comments section will eventually be erased, nothing in comments will stand as an appendix to the question itself so any and all relevant info needs to be in the question itself.

in short edit out "This question has no purpose related to any actual game I play. " and your whole paragraph on formal logic

KRyan

ok, you know what? we get it. You don't like RAW, you don't like people who talk about RAW, you don't consider it real roleplaying, you don't want to see it on the site

Joshua Aslan Smith

and put in some of what you just told me and I think it can stand

KRyan

too damn bad

Miniman

@Tritium21 If you want to start a(nother) meta on the validity of RAW questions on this site, feel free

Jeor Mattan

14:39

Gentlemen. Since I have already proven that rules as written do, for once, work exactly as they were intended, could we delete the discussion in comments, vote for the answers and be done with it?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@kryan what?

Jeor Mattan

This is getting ugly.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle @besw could use some help here if either of you get a chance, some of this might need to get shunted to not a bar

KRyan

@JoshuaAslanSmith Tritium, and to a lesser extent, you, are very quickly making this about playstyle differences and attacking that, and that's not valid and I'm calling you out on it

Mołot

All I wanted to know is if there is a rule for it. One that says it, not implies, suggests etc. Still can't see why it is so bad. Yes, I expect a lot of "arguably alive" creatures. So I want to know if there is a rule that clearly says who is alive. And humans are just most "visible" example where this rule seems hard to find.

Jeor Mattan

14:41

@Mołot there is. Now what?

Miniman

@Mołot RAW questions are an ongoing point of contention unfortunately

Joshua Aslan Smith

@kryan this has nothing to do with playstyle and everything to do with how he framed the question. I am a big proponent for using systems RAW most of the time if not as a baseline to understand the intention of a system. I came to RPG.SE as a D&D 4e player and GM where RAW is king. please Im not making a personal attack on Molot nor am I attacking his style

Mourdos

With regards to constructs and healing If it helps, the question about healing constructs HAS come up at my table due to using a variant magic system that works a little differently. I'm not planning on trying to rule it in and I'm not going to post up the entire ruleset since its in playtest and behind a paywall, so I'm asking the closest I can. I'm looking for rules which I can then use as a basic for talking about the other system at the table.

However, the fact that some people thing I need to justify asking the question in the first place amazes me and I'm not going to justify myself by editing the question in question.

KRyan

@JoshuaAslanSmith I did say "to a lesser extent" with respect to your statements, but nonetheless I maintain that responding to this question, which is in-scope and answerable, with "not a practical problem you're having right now" is disingenuous. Your are also, somewhat, hurt by association here: the most common use of that rule is as a bludgeon for certain people to attack those they perceive as being too RAW-minded

@Mourdos I don't believe anyone doubted the validity of your question, it was @Mołot's that was questioned

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Molot I appreciate you asking your question even if I think some things need to be changed to fit. I hope that you continue to participate in our community and ask questions on our site. If you make the changes I suggested I will retract my close vote.

Ill be afk for a long while

Mourdos

14:45

In that case, apologies for the above. I know both rules were referenced in the discussion.

Mołot

I expected that if there is RAW tag, I can ask questions about rules as they are, not only "what to do in this situation". I see people here was arguing if that's the case already, and I'm not interested in creating one more argument about that. Or participating in one. I asked question I believe was in line with the rules of RGP SE. If it'll be closed, so be it. If you want to argue again, do it without me. Now have a nice day, I have a work to do and then some beer to brew :) Bye bye

4

Mourdos

@Mołot Thanks for you answer btw to the positive energy

KRyan

and at everyone else: nice job breaking, hero.

ugh

Tim B

wow, so much flaming for such a little thing

I think there is a hole in the logic as posted by @JeorMattan ... is it safe to discuss or will it just provoke more flaming?

Mourdos

I also love how a RAW question is being answered with formal logic.

RAW is not about answering a question with logic, its about following the rules as written into the magical land of "The rules say WHAT?"

Tridus

14:50

I love how that's considered better than pointing out that since the term "living" isn't defined, we should just use the english definition. Because that'd be some crazy thing that a game designer would never do, right?

I have no problem with RAW questions usually, but this is the absolutest worst example of one. It illustrates perfectly just how conceputally stupid you can get when you ignore basic reasoning in favor of what someone thought needed redefining in the book

Mourdos

@Tridus I hate to say it but: It is defined

Tim B

@Tridus But the problem is that you need to understand the rules before you know where you are going to apply common sense to over-rule them. In addition in some cases you have to follow the rules

for example I'm a referee in a large (1000->4000 person per event) PvP allowed fest LRP system.

Mourdos

Posted as answer :-)

Tridus

@Mourdos That's even more hilarious

Tim B

in a PvP situation we HAVE to follow raw exactly and explicitly every time

Mourdos

14:53

0

A: Are humans living creatures? By the rules, that is?

The defintiion of "living" according to the WOTC website D&D glossary living Any creature with a Constitution score is a living creature. Constructs and undead are not living creatures. Source: MM3

Best answer, I think ^

Tim B

that's a 3.5 answer, does the same rule exist in pathfinder anywhere?

Tridus

@TimB Not in this case you don't. If I asked a ten year old who had played D&D for five minutes if his character was alive, he'd answer it successfully without needing to consult a bunch of rules.

Mourdos

Yes @Tridus but then we don't get to have fun like this!

Tridus

@TimB This is only even a thing because of overthinking the problem. Basic common sense should eliminate it from even being asked.

Mourdos

> Positive and Negative Energy: Negative energy attacks a creatures life force and is typically dealt by undead or necromantic effects. Positive energy instills a surge of life energy which typically heals living creatures but damages undead creatures. While it is referred to as "energy" energy resistance typically isn't effective against either of these types of energy.

Damn it Paizo

Tridus

14:55

@Mourdos Nice.

Apparently someone else had the same problem so Wizards answered it in the MM3 glossary, like how they beefed up the Incorporeal definition there

Tim B

@tridus Right up to the point you are on a field with a stopwatch on someone who's construct is dying and has seconds to "live" and their friend casts heal on them and the people who were trying to assassinate him are saying the heal doesn't work because he's a construct and constructs aren't alive...

Ok, it doesn't apply exactly in this case as LRP doesn't use D&D rules

but I've actually been in scenarios where a player's character has hung on the exact wording of stuff like this

and more than once

Tridus

@TimB Also construct type says it's not affected by healing normally, but can be healed by some special effect in the monster description.

Tim B

But my point is that (whether it is ridiculous or not) knowing exactly what the rules do or do not say is important.

Mourdos

We once went on to win a Warhammer40k tournament because in the qualifiers we won on a technicality.

Tridus

@TimB Yeah, I get it. I used to do that when I was younger.

Mourdos

15:01

That, and I was a complete ass to the person who faced my knights with their knights. I set up a 1/2" before my line and made sure they saw me move 12" forwards.

So mad, so funny.

Its even better when paizo's own site doesn't have the same information as the d20pfsrd (regarding damage types)

I do think that the question should not ask for formal logic though, didn't notice that

Tridus

@Mourdos The d20pfsrd site is updated with a lot of stuff that isn't in the PRD, it's a great reference. Trouble with this specific thing is that since it was defined in MM3, Paizo didn't have it in the SRD to copy into Pathfinder. They probably didn't feel it was worth adding to the core book either, given how fat it already is.

Mourdos

Paizo miss a lot of things. Like the errata for Ride-by-attack that actually makes it usable

Ribe-By-Attack is mostly unusable, unless you would not run into the creature with a straight line charge (remember you have to charge the closest square)

Tridus

Yep. When you're making a game that is based on another game, you run into some interesting issues with copyrights and such.

Mourdos

3.5 Errata that to say that once you made your attack, you could pick a new direction and ride off into that sunset (in a straight line)

It has the glorious side effect of meaning that you can charge a creature and end back up in the square you started in.

Tridus

Nice

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:46

Alright I think things are cooler now

wax eagle

sorry I wasn't around. not at work this week (and am actually gone gone starting tomorrow through saturday)

Mourdos

They are. I wonder if we will see a meta post over this.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle totally fine

I knew I couldnt do the physical lifting and that prolonged discussion was not going to be of the fruitful; "Discretion being the better part of valor and cowardice the better part of discretion" I valiantly left the room.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith wiseish. If things get too heated flagging may be an appropriate response, though do so with extreme caution

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle right I know it can result in a temp ban

I didnt appreciate kryans comments but it wasnt to that level

If there were sides I'd be on his in terms of the raw vs rai stuff but dude needs to temper his zeal

beyond being too aggressive and making people respond in kind it sort sweeps up people like my self who were/are sympathetic to the intellectual argument that gets lost in the rhetoric/emotion

I stand by my VTC on the question if only because the last paragraph asking for formulaic logic

Mourdos

16:52

I do think that should be removed.

I might propose the edit.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I mean it got closed 10 mins ago apparently

the argument over RAW just muddied the waters when the OP joined chat for discussion and frankly side-tracked it all

Grubermensch

[reads back] That escalated very suddenly.

Joshua Aslan Smith

yes

hence my extending the olive branch to the OP and then bowing out for a few hours

Mourdos

proposed an edit

Grubermensch

I get the impression that he might not have understood that "closed" is a recoverable status for the question, which is regrettable.

Erk, look at the time!

I have work to be arriving at!

Metool

16:59

@Tridus The rule on constructs is that they can't heal damage "on [their] own", in Pathfinder. Whether this refers to natural healing or to magical healing in general is unclear.

(And that's part of why arguments like this happen.)

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