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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

00:15
@BESW on workplace SE there is a single moderatror who has vendetta against comments. He goes around and delete comments in bulk, "because, it's not what comments are for", while the similar level of comments is quite ok on SO. So I'm guessing variations are inevitable, and and if SF can defend their right to comment away - good for them.
@zespri i see this, but followed by a comment of "comments aren't for discussion" - and I see a lot of discussion in comments there
@doppelgreener I understand the premise: this is not a forum, not a place for socializing, but questions and answers site where one can find a good answer for a particular question, or ask a question if it does not have an answer yet. But the thing is, that often I get more insight from the comments "discussion" than from the answers themselves!
@zespri does workplace.SE have an active chat room?
@doppelgreener No idea
@doppelgreener I only ever get to workplace from the SO side bar and then following a trail - not an active user. But practically every hotbar question there has deleted comments and this also has been discussed on workplace meta with graphs and so on, to prove that it's a bigger problem on workplace than on any other SE site
@zespri yup, I notice that too.
00:25
@doppelgreener so I'm guessing my point is, that the level of comments I'm seeing is adding value for me. Of course there is a point when it becomes disruptive, but I rarely ever witnessed that. So to me it's a fight with non-existent problem
Here's the problem: the goal of SE is to be a neatly-sorted pile of questions and answers. Comments don't fit into that.
The value you find in comments should be being added into the answers so they're part of the neatly-sorted system.
Then the comments can be removed as obsolete; they've accomplished their purpose by providing value to improve the answer.
Welcome to Meta Stack Exchange! — Shadow Wizard 6 hours ago
best
if the comments are such that someone can actually generally do that with them, perhaps a policy change could be suggested on workplace meta to give a warning before deleting comments
e.g. here, the mods will often leave a comment to the effect of "please incorporate anything of value here into the question/answer, then flag these as obsolete. these comments will be deleted shortly."
@zespri It also occurs to me that SO, being the original site, is quite likely to have its own distinct culture that makes it a poor standard to measure against on something like this.
@doppelgreener I think these are useful thoughts to edit into your meta answer.
Slightly off-topic, so don't take up too much space with them, but good for background/context because I don't think the question is really going to get good answers in a cultureless vacuum.
I gotta dash right quick, so can someone else leave a comment explaining to this new person how answers aren't for responding to other answers? (the opening quoted line is from the accepted answer).
(And, of course, flag as not an answer.)
00:45
@BESW which meta answer? the one about welcome comments? :s
Just a thought.
i'm not sure it adds anything to that answer though
It looks to me like the guy's seeing SE as much more homogenous than it is.
@BESW i could mention something about that
"SE isn't super homogenous, each site has its own policies brought up in their own meta" etc
So if moderators are more or less vigilant, or a community is making an active attempt to retain new citizens....
00:47
@BESW ah right
I suspect there are some sites where chatty comments are the least of the moderators' concerns.
Okay, going now. ttfn
01:03
@BESW I did some editing. Ttfn!
01:37
@Grubermensch sorry, to measure against on something like what? I lost track of this thought...
@zespri you said you see discussion-y comments on SO that would get swatted on workplace.
SO is a bad standard to measure against
because it's the original, and therefore special
@Grubermensch ah right. but there are quite a few other special ones I would imagine, it just happens so I frequent SO the most. An example would be SF that was discussed a bit earlier in this chat
of course
@Grubermensch also orders of magnitude bigger than everyone else
that too
I downloaded the question table from SO once for a project. Eight Gigabytes.
Just the questions.
01:52
yeah
02:11
[places flag?]
02:33
@Metool Hm?
02:50
@mxyzplk [wave] I finished Mystery, Incorporated.
@BESW Ah cool how'd you like it
A couple of the individual episode plots dragged too much in season two, but the season arc and character development were delicious.
Yeah I was really surprised with how good the writing was on it
If I were in the market for a long-form horror campaign I'd be inclined to rip it off as directly as possible.
don't know why it didn't get more press/props
02:52
Apparently it was released quite disastrously.
From TV Tropes:
"The first season was split in half and aired over two years. The second season was announced to premiere in May 2012, but the episode was not aired. After it didn't air it was announced that the episode would air on July 10 (almost a full year after the previous episode), but again didn't air. New episodes finally started on July 30, over a full year after the first season ended, and were burned off at 2PM monday-friday for a few weeks and briefly mis-labeled as Tom and Jerry Tales."
My daughter & wife enjoyed it. I didn't see all of it, but liked what I saw.
They got some great talent working on it.
Have you noticed, pretty much all recent versions of Scooby Doo make Fred kind of thick? I don't remember him being like that in the originals.
@Adeptus Daphne's been handed a lot of his competency, to try making her something more than Eye Candy In Distress.
(Also he was really kind boring.)
03:15
@BESW wow, that's firefly levels of screwing up
4
or possibly more or less, i'm not sure
More, but probably only because it went on longer.
03:56
@BESW Who's that in front of the Doctors?
@Adeptus Wil Wheaton.
Ah! Couldn't recognise him at that size
I'm not sure he's Doctor material, but I'd be all over Wheaton playing a companion.
I just found this via the "spanielsaurus" comment... and I recognize about half of them! I had these as a kid!
@Adeptus You were doomed to play D&D!
04:08
Yes, conditioned from an early age
@Magician And to be completely confused and mislead about dinosaurs
Anyone who's seen Jurassic Park (read: anyone) is already completely confused and mislead about dinosaurs.
@Magician that's true
topical and highly recommended watching:
Heck, people who have made the study of dinosaurs their lifelong profession are confused about dinosaurs.
Thumb spikes? Feathers? Living tripod?
04:38
@BESW Living tripod? Schwa?
04:52
On playing half-breeds in Fallen London. The scary part is, I know everything he's talking about.
Morning morning morning to you all.
@lisardggY Afternoon
@Magician Weird Al's Jurassic Park song just came up on my playlist :P
05:23
I just thought of a question that doesn't appear to have been asked/answered here - in D&D 3.5, can you combine Rapid Shot & Manyshot, to fire two Manyshots in one round?
My memory is vague, but I believe Manyshot is its own special standard action, and thus not combineable with other attack modifying abilities.
I'm genuinely sad I know this.
I'd say RAI is for them to be separate, as one is prerequisite for the other, but RAW it isn't immediately clear
Rapid Shot is a full-round attack, Manyshot is a standard action.
Rapid Shot gives you more attacks, not more standard actions.
Thanks
06:06
Manyshot, suchdamage. Wow.
@kviiri I want to play a Roge, with Uncanny Doge... ;)
2
So rocks. Such fall. Wow. Amaze dead.
06:38
As a fairly new GM, I unlocked a great achievement yesterday (I think?) by creating my first NPC that actually divided opinion among the party.
It's much easier outside DnD where everyone tends to be fairly black or white, friend or foe.
The controversial characters is a friendly but totalitarian reconstructionist in a post-apocalyptic world. There's some room for suspicion!
06:58
@kviiri ... I already like the sound of this
@doppelgreener The characters had only heard of this guy (Henrik) so far, having arrived in his city late in the evening. Henrik had mandated that every friendly stranger should receive lodging, medical care, food and booze upon arrival to welcome them.
This served as sort of a character-defining moment - but it was only completed as an angry drunk in the same tavern was pushed to the floor and executed on the site for disorderly conduct and a minor battery incident.
Wow.
I'd sure as hell feel conflicted.
The characters actually met Henrik the next day. He told them that everyone must obey his laws and orders on the penalty of death - but promised to not be a dick as long as their personal lives were in line with his reconstruction plan.
07:19
@kviiri he'd better be giving his populace a pretty sweet deal, since governments that have set the death sentence for minor indiscretions have generally lead to a terrified populace and revolt.
or potentially corruption, since the guards might be terrifying
...or not actually using death sentence all that much, as happened in Cromwell's England :p
@doppelgreener Are these strict sentences passed on locals too, or only on foreigners and disruptive adventurers?
Everyone.
He likes to keep his city clean, and it's the cleanest and sweetest city there is around. The only competition in the nearby area is a somewhat aggressive cult they're engaged in a war with, and a distant family of sixty or so inbred hillbillies.
And cannibals in the nearby forest, but there's usually little reason to go there anyway.
@kviiri ok, I suppose just living there is a pretty sweet deal compared to the alternatives.
off I go! ttfn
Bye o/
Oh, almost forgot, Henrik does tend to show clemency for minor crimes if you're not a repeat offender. Some of his guards follow this principle as well, others are more violent. Essentially each guard is a judge as well as the executioner.
And the guards always work in pairs to moderate each other.
07:48
@kviiri A kind of moral buddy system?
@kviiri So if one is a young hotshot guard with attitude problems, the other is a veteran, more contemplative, and just three weeks away from retirement?
I didn't really elaborate on that - I'd assume one is the senior partner and the other is a junior one. For dramatic twists, the junior partner is the executive (heh!) one and the senior one stands by giving their two cents on the topic.
@lisardggY The latter dies ironically and the former gets a TV show.
@BESW I would too actually
Once you cross a certain threshold, you don't need to kill people that much anymore. You start focusing more on offering advice and opinions for the junior partner to reflect on.
07:53
I don't think his acting style suits him as the Doctor, but him as a companion would make me geek out a bit
even though I only thought of it after scrolling up and reading your above coment
08:05
@trogdor I'm trying to think what I've seen him in since TNG where he hasn't been playing an exaggerated version of himself.
nothing, I think
I saw him in Eureka, but that does not break that mold
besides those two shows, I am not even sure I have seen him in anything
though I have seen some stuff he does on youtube
Hmm. I've heard him in voice acting several times.
but that stuff is him being himself, so it doesn't count either
(Teen Titans, Brave & the Bold.)
08:07
I probably saw him in his CSI cameo but I don't remember it.
I may have seen him in some cameos too
but I don't recall which ones
Aaaand now I know this exists.
Starring Wil Wheaton and People Who Don't Have Wikipedia Pages.
Hah! Netflix doesn't even have it on DVD.
I can see it but I don't think using big names for the Doctor is necessarily a good idea.
@WesleyObenshain It's been done before to great success.
@BESW Not sure which one you're referring to (John Hart? I mean, he's well-heard, I suppose. But he doesn't get seen a lot; at least not these days)
err... Hurt
08:13
When Tom Baker stepped down after becoming iconic of the role , they cast a man who was well-known for his role in another BBC TV series, Peter Davison.
@BESW Ah. Yes. Well. I am not that old. :-P
Patrick Troughton was a similar choice for a similar reason, when they were looking for the man who could win audiences into the idea of a Second Doctor.
But Peter Davison would be a very close parallel to Wil Wheaton.
Still, I do think Wheaton would be better as a companion.
He's got a kind of everyman aura that I'm not sure he could ditch.
I agree.
I like him, but I don't think he would do as good a job as he would want at that particular role
I mean, the man was an actor first. I don't know if those chops have improved over time or not but looking at things like Eureka and Big Bang Theory, they're rather intentionally handing him abrasive roles. What can we say; Trekkies love to hate him.
If you've ever seen him outside of one of those roles, though, you can tell exactly how much acting is actually going on in those shows. So I certainly think he could pull it off. But we already know who the next doctor is anyway.
@WesleyObenshain I think it's less a matter of "can he act?" (yes, obviously he can) and more "can he act for that role?" (I haven't seen anything which makes me think so). But yes, most of his high-profile live action roles are all similar so it's hard to say.
08:27
he does seem to get typecast a lot
It's kinda like casting Patrick Stewart: the man's a brilliant actor, but you've gotta ask yourself, "How much like Captain Jean-Luc Picard is the role I'm offering him?"
Stewart had a very nice role in an Israeli movie a year or two ago, as an impoverished British actor and minor aristocrat getting involved in a bank robbery in Israel. He did the part very nicely, but then at some point someone told me they originally wanted John Cleese for the role, which made me think.
@BESW That's kind of my point on both sides of the argument. People associate big-name actors (and others) with other things (like their Star Trek characters) which can make it difficult for the viewer to see past the old role. On the other hand, there's nothing that says those roles were definitive of the actors abilities.
In Stewart's case, even he has admitted that he's best as Picard.
Many actors do have wide range beyond their iconic role, but Stewart--somewhat amusingly--doesn't. The further from "Picard" he strays the less convincing his performance. Professor Xavier is a very Picard-like character, so he does that well. King Claudius... not so much.
He did the role for years and hasn't had a steady gig since... well, maybe Xavier (and I didn't see Picard there, myself)
08:40
@WesleyObenshain The role is like Picard enough that Stewart was able to genuinely inhabit it.
I'm not saying he always plays Picard, but that he's best able to play not-Picard roles when they've got very Picard-like elements to them; the speechifying empathic leader, for example.
I think the role he does best is "Bouncing around the world with Ian McKellan".
@BESW shrug I feel like there's not enough evidence on either side to debate that particular opinion.
I was actually about to bring up Ian McKellan as a perfect example
@WesleyObenshain [shrug] I may have seen more Stewart than is healthy for me.
@lisardggY That's kind of like saying "William Shatner is best at being William Shatner," though.
(Which is true; William Shatner is the world's best William Shatner impersonator. He's based his entire career on it.)
@BESW Exactly.
He also makes fun of himself the best too. Sometimes he even means to.
08:44
@BESW The question is whether you've seen more Stewart than in healthy for him.
@WesleyObenshain I cannot tell when he means to or not. Have you seen the interview accompanying Groom Lake?
Anyway, what I was trying to get at was that Wil Wheaton's last major acting role before his reemergence was Wesley Crusher, which was ages ago. Since then, he's pretty much acted the same character in every show because that's what those shows want from him. But it's nothing like Crusher or Wheaton. I think he could handle another role quite easily, but nobody wants him to. Its probably a large part of why he's done so much voice acting lately.
It's like Mark Hamill.
Anyway, I've made no effort to get any work done in the last 5 hours of staring at my computer screen so I think it's bedtime. Later.
 
1 hour later…
10:07
@Adeptus In keeping with the "meme RPG" theme from a few days ago, I suggest a Rouge with Uncanny Dodge.
*Uncanny Doge. Silly autocorrect.
10:25
@BESW Ahoy!
Ohay!
@BESW's autocorrect, Ahoy as well!
What's new?
My shoes! Also, presently wondering whether to do Fate Looms or Necrodancer
(both are pretty productive compared to previous standards)
You?
[falls over]
The Environmental Protection Agency and the Guam Waterworks Authority are having a power struggle/jurisdictional battle/[impolite phrase] over whether or not the tap water in the central part of the island is contaminated.
10:37
...shouldn't you know that by any epidemics sprouting?
So the EPA is saying, "Boil the water, it's filthy!" and GWA is saying, "Our water's fine, you're not even authorised to make those tests!"
@kviiri It's not, like, Toledo contaminated. Just a little e. coli.
@BESW "Your findings that our water has cyanide in it are invalid because you are not authorised to test our water for cyanide"
we have things similar to this happen sometimes
not that I would say I remember a case quite exactly like this one.
sounds vaguely Vogon
is your council run by Vogons by any chance?
any sightings of council members chasing particularly shiny crabs with hammers?
we do have local legend involving golden crabs
but that is it
10:54
Well, gold-spotted crabs. And just two of them.
yes, but gold all the same
and I have heard versions where they were just gold
Ah.
no other descriptors beyond that
There are a lot of versions of that story.
there are
10:56
(For the uninitiated: Santa Marian Kamalen.)
11:17
Hrmmm.
@doppelgreener, @trogdor Both our other semi-regular players will be attending this Saturday's Geek Night. Not sure what to do.
Ideas?
@BESW Daniel and I will likely not be upset if you choose to focus on your three physically present companions, and give our game's continuation a raincheck 'til next week
Aye, but I think everybody'd be happy to find an alternative if possible.
11:46
[bemused]
hello
that 5e deities question could be good, maybe, but I also don't see how it doesn'tbecome a list of these are the deities in 5e.
[wave]
Morning
12:02
morning
Hello!
Fairest and fallen, greetings and defiance!
can you guys close vote on the 5e deities question if you havent already
low qual question with low qual answer
2
Q: Are the Old Deities really coming back for D&D 5e's Forgotten Realms?

ThamiarI was surfing on the internet, and I have encountered rumours that in the 5th edition of DnD in Forgotten Realms world, the Old Deities will come back (Bhaal, Myrkul, Leira etc.) What is more, I have heard that Bhaal is confirmed. Is this true, and are there any official sources that confirm thi...

"Low quality answer" isn't a reason to close. What makes you feel it's a low-quality question?
A good answer would provide an official link/quote to a statement about the deities in 5e.
12:13
I'm a bit on the fence with this one, as it seems like "Google this for me."
Also, it might become blindingly obvious when the PHB hits on Friday.
@Grubermensch That applies to about 70% of the 5e questions we've had, I think.
Yeah.
he said, and promptly stopped discussing the verboten topic
fair point
It's a common enough challenge with any system in this stage of release.
But it doesn't look like an opinion problem.
12:18
Not an opinion problem, but a "All answers will be bad rumors this week and solid facts the next".
Okay, so it'll be a good--albeit possibly trivial--question next week.
Exactly.
I have no problem with leaving it open until then, as a sadistic exercise in citizen self-control.
Having just read SSD's answer to the RTFM meta, I'm coming around to not closing it.
@BESW And what do we do with the bad answers until then?
12:21
@BESW I'm about 90% sure that they've been almost completely mum about it. which makes it speculation now, with the possibility of confirmation on Friday
@lisardggY Let loose the downvotes?
@lisardggY le downvotes?
Ah, poor 1-rep newbie.
Ha!
Fantastic.
12:22
It's a shame, because the answer could be fixable, but I don't have much expectation of him coming back to edit it.
@BESW Can't stop watching it. Even more than the original.
@Grubermensch You can edit it into a more coherent answer, you know.
Wow, WotC really rolled a massive crit against their SEO with that last site reorg, didn't they?
@lisardggY What I mean is it assumes too much understanding of the context. I don't have any of the context, but it's possible that with that it is in fact a valid answer.
@lisardggY I think Wizards of the Coast has Favoured Enemy (Wizards of the Coast).
8
@Grubermensch I don't have the context either, but after some context browsing (here) I'm guessing that this series is exactly the right context, in the sense that it lays the narrative for the shift in the FR between the 4e state to the new 5e situation.
@lisardggY Yeah that's what I'm saying.
12:27
Though I might not understand FR's history well enough.
FR confuses me.
@lisardggY yeah, the Sundering has been the big world level event leading up to it. The problem is that we don't know what that actually means in terms of the game...
@waxeagle Yes, that's why we agree there's the core of a good answer here, but it's incomplete and premature.
I've never made any effort to follow the official settings.
I only know about the Sundering because it's basically unavoidable if you're following 5e stuff closely (and I played the D&D Arena of War iPad game for a while)
12:30
@Grubermensch Same here.
@Grubermensch I really enjoyed 4e's Points of Light, but otherwise... yeah, [tosses setting out window]
yeah PoL was a great setting
I still like Greyhawk. </old>
@lisardggY a lot of folks do, I feel like there is at least a chance they bring it back officially for 5e
(I'm hoping for spelljammer and ravenloft personally, but I may well run those from old sourcebooks if they dont)
Basically, I'm fond of the pseudo-medieval feel that earlier D&D settings had. Greyhawk had it. FR has it in some places. Other settings tend to go for the more exotic and fantastic.
12:32
which is part of what makes me so happy about WOTC's decision to capitalize their old properties via drivethru
@waxeagle Ah, I loved Spelljammer (my previous comment nonwithstanding). Even though TSR later acted all ashamed of it.
@lisardggY Fair enough. I guess I preferred the fantastic because it helped me ignore the total disconnect between D&D and the medieval ethos it so desperately tried to pretend it had.
I haven't played either of the ones I'm hoping for. But they both seem so cool I can't help but be super interested in them
Ooh, they do have it. I had the boxed set, actually played it a lot in high school: dndclassics.com/product/17263/…
@lisardggY yeah I've been eyeing that for a bit now :)
12:39
Every time talk drifts to settings and styles, I try hard to separate things that I actually prefer, vs. things that I have fond memories of from my youth.
An important distinction to make.
Do I really prefer Greyhawk to Eberron, or is it that I had fun playing Greyhawk in high-school? Hard to say.
I would never return to most of my early D&D settings, no matter how much fun I had running them.
...and I still want to play a shulassakar some time.
Likewise. My early games were thin-plotted dungeoncrawls/hexcrawls, which I don't really enjoy these days as much. But still, nostalgia strikes deep.
I think one issue I run into these days is being blinded by aesthetic.
12:44
@BESW you mean in like a judge-based-on-the-cover-art sort of way?
@Grubermensch yeah, somewhat.
If I like how a setting looks or feels, the themes it deals with or the cultures it's inspired by, I'll get excited out of proportion to how well it'll actually play for me and my group.
(Honestly that's half of why I want to play a shulassakar.)
@BESW I'm like this with movies. I'll like a film because something in it takes me to a cool place, but the actual execution of the film could be terrible.
(The other half of playing a shulassakar is that I like playing non-standard paladin-type characters; there's something very appealing about playing a priest of Quetzalcoatl in a culture that doesn't know much about Quetzalcoatl.)
[falls over]
12:52
I...
what is this i don't even.
I can die happy now.
Duplicate:
15
Q: Is the old "Linear Fighters Quadratic Wizards" problem still around in 5e Basic?

Mourdos(This question is a comparison to 3.x, though things might have been different in 4e) In 3.5e there is a large power and capability gap between fighters and wizards that fighters couldn't hope to close, even in their nominal area of excellence. Is this problem still around?

I feel the need to unleash Lord_Gareth upon him.
But, like, contra-duplicate.
No, no I don't.
12:52
@lisardggY Oh dear.
I...
@Grubermensch Same answers.
This has to be a troll
But I voted to close as opinion-based before I remembered that one.
[face/palm]
So can others throw in votes for dupe?
Perhaps this person has only ever played at very low levels
Up to like level 5, you could maybe be forgiven for thinking that fighters have the upper hand.
Alas, I must depart.
12:55
ttfn
Catch y'all later.
Closed in five minutes. Nice.
See ya
@BESW From the time we noticed it we closed it in less than a minute.
glad we got enough dupe votes there at the end
Ha. He removed it
12:56
@waxeagle Yeah.
hmm...I'm inclined to undelete it
Seriously...what's going on with DnD-5e questions???
oh? Why is that?
@MrJinPengyou lol, last 2 were stinkers, but overall, it's not horrible
@MrJinPengyou It's very natural; there's enough material available to generate questions but not enough to generate good answers.
12:57
@BESW I just died laughing, this lich Josh from now on
@BESW Exactly...I think we should have 2 different tags. One for dnd-5e-basic and dnd-5e would be for the complete ruleset
So people are either asking questions which are unanswerable in the SE frame, or grasping at straws for questions which might be answerable (forced questions are rarely good).
Or, yanno, they're just excited and babbling.
@MrJinPengyou This came up in Meta already, IIRC.
Tagging's not gonna make things better.
12:59
It's a natural and very temporary phenomenon associated with the staggered release of a major franchise product.
@lisardggY Yeah I know. The question call it living rules. Which might be less confusing than "basic"
@besw honestly I feel after rereading said question I asked for close votes on that itll just be a list question
Not only:
1
Q: Should there be a "starter-set" tag?

Wesley ObenshainIn my experience, starter sets often contain explicitly 'wrong' versions of the rules for the sake of simplicity. Now, I understand that people certainly don't want to see something like dnd-5e-starter-set, adnd-starter-set, dnd-3.5-red-box. But we do have other examples of what I like to think o...

that even with great sourcing the answer will ultimately be a list and/or a list of links
00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

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