TRPG General Chat

GMNoob

12:02

Who is/was that?

BESW

Viktor Frankl

Viktor Emil Frankl, M.D., Ph.D. (26 March 1905 – 2 September 1997) was an Austrian neurologist and psychiatrist as well as a Holocaust survivor. Frankl was the founder of logotherapy, which is a form of existential analysis, the "Third Viennese School of Psychotherapy". His best-selling book Man's Search for Meaning (published under a different title in 1959: From Death-Camp to Existentialism, and originally published in 1946 as Trotzdem Ja Zum Leben Sagen: Ein Psychologe erlebt das Konzentrationslager, meaning Nevertheless, Say "Yes" to Life: A Psychologist Experiences the Concentra...

@MattChampion [wave] Hi!

GMNoob

Ah nice. He's inspiring

BESW

If you'd like to actually talk about RPGs, we're always happy to return to topic.

Inbar Rose

1

Q: Are There Any Games That Are Skill-Leveling Based?

I was wondering if there are any games that are skill-leveling based that I can study on and see how people liked it. I'm been working on a RPG game since 2000 off & on, and it is skill-leveling based. Where if you use one-handed edged weapons, you skill with that weapon increases with every succ...

skills

Where was that post-apocalypse game?

The horrible one that had like 200 skills

Aaron

Morning

Matt Champion

12:08

@BESW Hi there :)

GMNoob

@InbarRose I feel like refering him to Runescape :P

lisardggY

@InbarRose deadEarth!

Inbar Rose

@lisardggY Thanks.

That should be an answer there.

If not simply to show him how bad of an idea that is.

lisardggY

@InbarRose Ugh, I hate how VtC automatically adds a comment for me.

BESW

[amused]

GMNoob

12:13

Wait, Runequest is a TRPG also?

BESW

Closed as duplicate of a similar too-broad question before I could vote to close as too broad.

Inbar Rose

Yep.

BESW

You might want to take a look at this question and its answers, and modify your question to show how you're looking for significantly different answers. (I know they're different, but there's enough overlap that making it very clear exactly how they're different looks useful--especially since that one was closed as too broad, and I'm afraid yours might be in danger of that as well.) — BESW 3 mins ago

lisardggY

I don't think deadEarth improved skills through use, mainly because nobody lived long enough to use skills.

BESW

@lisardggY [amused for entirely different reasons]

Suddenly I see a glaring flaw in CoC's character advancement system: it expects characters to live long enough they'll have a chance to advance.

lisardggY

12:15

@BESW Where the only stat you could depend on to progress is Sanity?

BESW

@lisardggY The Sanity stat doesn't progress. It descends. Gibbering.

lisardggY

@BESW I took care to avoid using the term "increase". :)

The last game of CoC I played was... I think... around 2001.

GMNoob

This seems like a bad edit to me

rpg.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/7549

since it makes the upvotes for the card only answer, very confusing

BESW

Mm. That edit is a false improvement.

Thales Pereira

I... am failing to see how that edit is bad.

BESW

12:18

It fixes a problem within an edit that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

Querants shouldn't edit responses to answers ("lottery seems the most efficient way to me") into their questions.

GMNoob

He updated the question based on which answer he liked best, and then the edit makes it sound like he was asking that from the get go, which he wasn't.

BESW

Editing such a response so its format conforms to site regulations about not using "Edited to add" phrases doesn't make the content of the edit any better.

GMNoob

He still wants other options, but out of the answers provided so far, he likes lottery best and wants more info on it.

Thales Pereira

Oh, the problem was on a previous edit.

Now I see that. I didn't see the other edits. The last one just don't looked bad to me

GMNoob

A bit confusing, since we tell people not to comment, but rather to update the question :P

lisardggY

12:21

@GMNoob Unless that update changes the question, of course.

BESW

Please don't edit responses to answers into the question. If you want clarifying edits on answers, comment on the particular answer. If you have discovered more specific requirements to narrow the scope of your question, edit that into the question. — BESW 17 secs ago

GMNoob

@lisardggY The more I program, the more I dislike exceptions to rules :P

Inbar Rose

@GMNoob He should make a comment then.

GMNoob

@InbarRose Agreed

Inbar Rose

@GMNoob Also a programmer? :)

lisardggY

12:23

@GMNoob The best way to avoid exceptions to rules is to avoid rules. :)

BESW

He did have one clarification to the question which I edited back in.

Inbar Rose

How many Israeli programmers are on RPG.SE? :)

GMNoob

@InbarRose Isn't that how everyone learns about the SE sites?

Inbar Rose

@GMNoob Probably.

BESW

@GMNoob I found SE when one of my D&D players told me about an rpg.se question he thought I could answer.

@JonathanHobbs [wave]

I'm all bit-champy about your promised move.

doppelgreener

12:26

@BESW hi!

@BESW i should do that

GMNoob

@BESW Did that player program? :P

Inbar Rose

I just want to retreat from this whole day. Nothing good is happening today.

doppelgreener

i'm wondering what i should do about stress tracks in fate, too, if i remove the mental stress track. combine will and physique's bonus stress boxes? (someone with 3 physique and 3 will, will then end up with 6 stress boxes...)

GMNoob

@InbarRose Go buy some overpriced icecream.

BESW

@GMNoob ...yes, though not professionally.

doppelgreener

12:27

or do i give them the full bonus from one and half a bonus from the other? (5 stress boxes)

Inbar Rose

@JonathanHobbs Why would you want to do that?

GMNoob

@BESW Ha! Knew it! There should be a new tag line. At SE, you are only 6 degrees away from a Programmer introducing you to our site.

BESW

7 hours ago, by Magician

On removing mental stress track from Fate. @BESW, any other takers: thoughts?

Inbar Rose

SE evolved from SO... Naturally SO is the biggest attraction.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs The linked article does have one suggestion about that, but ultimately it comes down to thinking about your desired experience.

doppelgreener

12:29

@BESW s'true

BESW

Very simply: longer stress tracks means longer conflicts unless you equally escalate skills and/or add weapon ratings.

And we know that Fate doesn't take significant number escalation with grace and dignity because it quickly renders the Fudge Curve irrelephant.

(And with it, the Fate point economy.)

doppelgreener

yus.

BESW

So I suggest this: let players decide whether to use Physique or Will to determine their stress track length.

doppelgreener

and i know that the difference between 4 stress boxes and 5 is a lot more than the difference between 3 stress boxes and 4

@BESW or just take the highest?

GMNoob

@lisardggY If RPGs have taught me anything, it's that the rules are always there. It's just a question if you are aware of them or not.

BESW

12:31

@JonathanHobbs That will generally be what they do, yes.

lisardggY

@GMNoob Not aware of rules = not frustrated by exceptions = a life of ignorant bliss.

BESW

There's a good reason that after a certain point higher skills don't give more stress boxes, and instead give extra consequence slots.

GMNoob

@lisardggY Ha! :D I wonder if I would be more frustrated by arbitrary rules, than by rule exceptions.

Inbar Rose

Well... It seems like premature optimization.

"We don't use the mental stress track, let's combine it"

Fate is a new RPG (relatively)

People may not be used to playing it.

Which means often times they are falling back to their older games... where there is basically mostly physical combat

And "hitpoints"

lisardggY

I had a discussion with a friend, years ago. He's an engineer, dealing with hardware, mostly - processors, chips, that sort of thing. Me, I'm a programmer, dealing with software.
I would get a lot more annoyed with bad rules and annoying exceptions, whereas he accepted them more gracefully. We finally decided that this is due to *his* rules being derived, ultimately, from unavoidable physical properties of his materials. *My* rules and their exceptions are usually derived from arbitrary decisions of project managers, so it was harder for me to accept them.

Inbar Rose

12:35

I have played Fate where we use the mental stress a lot.

BESW

@InbarRose Did you read my thoughts on it?

Inbar Rose

@BESW Erm... no?

Aaron

Anyone else here preorder the spheres of power book?

BESW

The particular bits that are relephant to what you just said:

7 hours ago, by BESW

And he's probably right that its default setting is a little more complex than it usually needs to be, but I suspect that's because having a "social" stress track makes non-physical conflicts easier for D&D-brained players to wrap their heads around.

7 hours ago, by BESW

So it's unnecessary but useful as a tool for levering peoples' brains into new spaces.

GMNoob

@lisardggY Insightful, and makes sense.

lisardggY

12:37

@GMNoob Luckily, I've managed to put many of those frustrations behind me, too.

Well, I still get upset by a lot of bad and/or arbitrary decisions, but I managed to let that go quicker.

GMNoob

@lisardggY I've evolved to a new point, where an exception to a rule, means I've understood the rule incorrectly and I should rewrite the function or break them up into smaller rules :P

So the frustration is at myself, not the outside.

Joshua Aslan Smith

good morning boys and girls

lol @gmnoob I see your new avatar

lisardggY

good morning joshua and aslan.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I am both Joshua and aslan

GMNoob

@JoshuaAslanSmith Yay!

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:40

though not the aslan

lisardggY

@JoshuaAslanSmith No, no. You are, in your userpic, decidedly unmaned.

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith It's unnecessarily metal!

doppelgreener

I do think it was overdoing it making it the ampersand of the third logo

lisardggY

They always stress the "dragon" part of the name. Rarely the "dungeon".

@JonathanHobbs Yeah, that just looks like two different designs mashed together.

Joshua Aslan Smith

You can never have unnecessary metal, you can only have moar metal!

lisardggY

12:47

@JoshuaAslanSmith Are you a huge metal fan?

doppelgreener

@lisardggY broken liiiiink

lisardggY

Dammit. Here a better one

BESW

@JonathanHobbs I think it's pronounced "leeenk."

Zachiel

lisardggY

There actually was a huge metal fan, an art installation, in front of Tel Aviv City Hall a couple of years ago.

BESW

12:52

Also, @JonathanHobbs, Skype or the not-a-bar? I have a couple pictures of last night's unveiling that I don't want to spam the chat with.

GMNoob

@lisardggY That was epic

doppelgreener

@BESW skyyyype

(alternately skeeeeep??)

GMNoob

I like the logo. It's very fitting for what 5e is. What's old is new again.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs I have an aunt who calls it "Sypes." Rhymes with "snipes."

GMNoob

Don't know if anyone knows WFRP here, but my table always has fun with my Elves with an initiative of 90

One of the main reason we are switching game rules

Inbar Rose

12:55

@BESW My Grandfather pronounces it like "skippeee"

@GMNoob Interesting in perhaps joining a game of Fate I am trying to organize in T/A?

GMNoob

@InbarRose Yes, but I don't think it will be possible. :(

Inbar Rose

lol... because there are some really unfriendly ones.

0

Q: Free Character Builder for DND 4E on Mac

I need a list of Free Character builders for Dungeons and Dragons 4E on Mac, preferred to be user friendly.

dnd-4e

Aaron

I feel quite proud of myself today. I have been riding my bike to work and for the first time I wasn't gasping for breath when I arrived today.

Inbar Rose

@Aaron Took the bus this time?

GMNoob

@Aaron That's great feeling. I started walking to work , and had that feeling just last week.

Aaron

12:57

@InbarRose Town is too small for a bus.

Inbar Rose

@GMNoob Thought you said you worked in T/A and lived... somewhere far away.

@Aaron I was trying to make a joke.

GMNoob

@Aaron My belly is too large for a bus. Walk from the train to the office.

Inbar Rose

I work 10 minutes walk away from work.

For the Israeli's here. I live in Florentin and work on Nachlat Benyamin/Montifury. :)

Aaron

I live somewhere between a mile and 2 miles away from work and it is rather hilly.

Inbar Rose

@Aaron :(

Aaron

13:01

1.6 miles according to google maps.

wax eagle

@Aaron good job. I'd be really tired if I rode...though getting home would be the bigger challenge

GMNoob

Well that's embrassing. A question I asked when we started WFRP in 2012 has the answer to the question I just asked now. Is there a way to link that part of the answer or should I just reenter it?

wax eagle

@GMNoob you can quote it...and cite the answer

Aaron

@waxeagle Going home of more of a downhill for me so it is somewhat easier. I still have to go up a rather large hill but I bought a bike that has many gears so I just gear down to what I need.

wax eagle

or you can flag/vtc as a dupe

Inbar Rose

13:04

@GMNoob You need to perform a sacrifice first, 3 heads of lamb and a watermelon.

Aaron

@InbarRose What did the watermelon ever do to you?

wax eagle

my ride would be about 20 miles, with a 1300' elevation drop

Inbar Rose

@Aaron See, no one cares about lambs.

GMNoob

It's not a dupe. Someone just decided to give an info dump in the original question

wax eagle

gotcha

quote the relevant section in your self answer, and link them up

Zachiel

13:05

@InbarRose badumpsh

Inbar Rose

@Zachiel (Thanks)

Coffee time.

Aaron

So I think this got buried earlier. Did anyone else get the Spheres Of Power preorder?

Zachiel

not me

GMNoob

@waxeagle Please let me know if I did that right.

0

A: How can I update my WFRP 1e character to 2e?

Taken from an answer given to an unrelated question here: Conversion from 1E to 2E resources Finally, Liber Fanatica has rich, downloadable conversion and support information for 1E-to-2E conversion. LF's Volume 1, The Character Compendium was compiled by play-testers of 2E and contains details...

wax eagle

@GMNoob two things, use the quote markdown (that's the > in front) to be clear that you're quoting someone else, and second maybe a bit of your own text in there somewhere

GMNoob

13:11

well the first line is my own text :P But I assume that's not what you mean

wax eagle

@GMNoob nawp :)

usually a paragraph tying the quote to the specific question is a good start

This is where I usually pontificate on how SE answers are like research papers but I'll spare you :)

2

GMNoob

Like that?

wax eagle

mas-o-menos

Inbar Rose

13:25

Just an FYI - I am looking to join a new Storium game, if anyone is narrating one, or wants to join one with me?

BESW

13:42

@Sloloem hi!

GMNoob

I would like to try Storium

Joshua Aslan Smith

@lisardggy not particularly but I like some metal and the idea of metal is funny anyway

BESW

@GMNoob I'm willing to give out invitations so people can make free player accounts, but I don't actually have the ability to support more players in any of my games at the moment.

Inbar Rose

Actually, one of my games just lost a player... :)

@GMNoob Gimme an email address I can invite you at.

Arp Laszlo

Good morning, folks! Anyone want to talk Dungeon World fronts?

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:57

@ArpLaszlo hey saw you talking DW when I was going to bed last night

yes I can talk fronts

though I dont have a ton of experience with them (I play more than I GM) I can help you parse it out

Arp Laszlo

I'm trying to figure my first one out - had the first session over the weekend & the kids are chomping at the bit to play again (yay).

@JoshuaAslanSmith This is what I've got so far: docs.google.com/document/d/…

Joshua Aslan Smith

@ArpLaszlo so are you needing help with the mechanics of fronts or more building a good front?

Arp Laszlo

@JoshuaAslanSmith I think more the mechanics. I have the story/backstory down intuitively.

Joshua Aslan Smith

cracks open DW files

@arplaszlo campaign or adventure fronts?

or both?:

Arp Laszlo

@JoshuaAslanSmith I guess both. What I have is the really big picture. I don't have anything for the smaller adventure fronts yet.

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:05

okay so Campaign fronts (probably only 1 or 2) are serious, overarching problems that are going on from the very first session until the end of the campaign (either the heroes stop them or they complete themselves)

adventure fronts last a session (or a few sessions) they either can tie into the campaign front or they can be completely separate (maybe a distraction?).

both kinds should have real and lasting impact on the world one way or the other

Zachiel

[sits down and list- uh, reads]

Arp Laszlo

ha

i felt a little stymied during the first session when my son's friend basically recreated his character & life from Skyrim

Joshua Aslan Smith

So is "the unseen hand" sort of the overarching villian/antagonist group to the party?

Arp Laszlo

And I'd like to upend that.

@JoshuaAslanSmith they are a mysterious group that i mentioned in passing that the party picked up on

Joshua Aslan Smith

@ArpLaszlo I find that novice roleplayers will seek to emulate an established character because its much easier to imitate then to improvise acting wise

Arp Laszlo

14:09

@JoshuaAslanSmith that makes sense. my son didn't take that route but he's had me babbling to him about stuff. He also plays Skyrim, just not as much as his friend

Joshua Aslan Smith

gotcha, but are you going to make them the overarching bad guy (even if the players haven't an inkling?)

Arp Laszlo

actually, no. My goal is to really have things not be what they seem so the UH are robin hoody do-gooders - except to those they are stealing from (the empire)

BUT their leader has ulterior motives beyond altruism

Joshua Aslan Smith

okay then the unseen hand shouldnt be a campaign front

Arp Laszlo

i noticed a theme with a couple of the orgs that they may say they do good but those in power may have other intentions

(which likely is my view on governments in general O_O)

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol gotcha

So if the unseen hand isnt the thing they are ultimately trying to fight against I would say not to make them the campaign front but maybe they have run ins with parts of the organization from time to time and then it could be an adventure front temporarily.

Arp Laszlo

14:12

but there are bad elements within the UH - they could fronts or dangers?

ok

Joshua Aslan Smith

Have you read LOTR?

Arp Laszlo

not in many years

Joshua Aslan Smith

hmmmm

do you sort of remember it (or the movies)?

Arp Laszlo

i know the movies extremely well

Joshua Aslan Smith

okay

Arp Laszlo

14:13

sauron = campaign front?

Joshua Aslan Smith

so Im going to take that and push it into dungeonworld for right now

Arp Laszlo

woot

Joshua Aslan Smith

yes Sauron & the forces of mordor would be the campaign front

This would include saruman and his orcs as well as all of mordor's orcs and their allies from the south

obviously ringwraiths

adventure fronts would be the moria orcs, the balrog, (maybe the corsairs that aragorn fights)

Actually

Moria itself could be an adventure front with the dangers being the orcs, the landscape, and the balrog

let me know if Im losing you or if you have questions

Arp Laszlo

this is making complete sense to me

Inbar Rose

@GMNoob Hey- email?

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:20

so fronts basically act and react like enemies would in dungeonworld, they have their own moveset that the GM uses to have the world be actively hostile to the players

3

Arp Laszlo

i think what threw me for a loop is thinking that the adventure fronts would have to be related to the campaign front

Joshua Aslan Smith

Campaign Front: Sauron and his Dark Servants
Dangers: The Nine(Impulse: Hunt the Ring)
The Ring (Impulse: To corrupt men's hearts)
Orc Legions (Impulse: Conquer the world of Men)
Saruman (Impulse: To Gain power)

Let me write up some grim portents

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:42

@ArpLaszlo sorry work happened. Okay so a grim portent might be "someone puts on the ring" or "Osgiliath Falls" basically a plot occurence that signifies the agenda of the campaign front being advanced

Arp Laszlo

@JoshuaAslanSmith Got it, that makes sense.

Joshua Aslan Smith

anything else in particular, watn more info on adventure fronts?

Arp Laszlo

I think it's making sense. Adventure fronts are smaller and the dangers may not always be related to the big picture. Though I guess they are peripherally - Moria wasn't directly related to Sauron but they had to go through it as part of their quest.

Joshua Aslan Smith

yep

also adventure fronts should more directly/immediately affect the world

but if your campaigns all take place in the same world than they too should affect the world if they complete

so (not lotr) but maybe there are maurders on the highway in an area of the world

if the party ignores the problem trade might dry up

next time they are in that area they can't find anything to buy in shops and they cant get reapirs etc.

Arp Laszlo

I love how thoughtful they were in creating DW.

So nice & deep

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:55

yes

GMNoob

Should I change my avatar to this instead?
http://community.wizards.com/sites/mtgcommunity/files/styles/large/public/TOD.png?itok=RLrpqYwk

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol

GMNoob

@InbarRose da ganev strudel gmail (remove the spaces before the strudel)

DW Dungeon World, or something else?

I wonder if spam bots know about the strudel yet.

Zachiel

@GMNoob it's called in different ways across the globe so spambots don't really find it effective

Here in Italy it's the snail. Somewhere else it's the cat.

GMNoob

@Zachiel Oh really? Interesting. I thought everyone called it "at" besides the people who don't

Damn, now I just gave the spam bots a dictionary key.. dammit!

Arp Laszlo

16:05

@JoshuaAslanSmith thanks, you've helped put me on the right track :)

Zachiel

Mmmmh I need to re-engineer a D&D 4e encounter, is there somebody who's good at encounter creation here?

wax eagle

@Zachiel I can help with 4e in general, what's going on?

ok, the art for 5e is getting me giddy, love tiamat being a big part of the first adventure set

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:26

I can also help with 4e

dam just closed that news post and I shouldnt

Zachiel

I'm playing Thunderspire Labyrinth, integrating it with a pdf I found on the Internet

Joshua Aslan Smith

more details?

Zachiel

It has some extra encounters, reflavoring, suggestions of using different moster blocks taken from Monster Vault or dragon magazines and so on

So I have this encounter that's tailored for 5 people and I have 4 players

Was it a normal encounter I'd be fine, find the extra enemy, remove some XP

but the enemies storm in a tavern across 4 rounds

Joshua Aslan Smith

they are in groups?

Zachiel

so I'm not totally sure about which enemies I should keep and which ones are the best ones to remove

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:32

how many enemies

Zachiel

We have a bugbear brute (5) and three hobgoblin soldiers (3, minion) on turn 1

3 more hobgoblins and a goblin (1) that just throws firebombs at the inn furniture on round 2

2 more hobgoblins and a hobgoblin warcaster (3) on turn 3

1 more hobgoblin and a goblin on turn 4

mmmh maybe I should move this to the Statblock Forge chat

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:47

hah whatever you want but things are pretty dead here

so dont worrry about it unlesss omeone comes in with another question

Zachiel

It was more for giving a meaning to "my" chat :p

However

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha

we can do that then

wax eagle

if it was me, encounters for 5 with 4 players, I'd largely just leave them the same

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah pop out a few minions

honestly they are just filler unless the point is just overwhelming ness

Zachiel

They breezed over a lv-1 encounter, let's see how they fare here

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:49

there are some nasty undead minions

wax eagle

if you want to pull one out, pull a hobgoblin from the second waveish...depending on the PC level, monster level, and optimization level, you might have to accelerate the arrival of your monsters

Joshua Aslan Smith

you could start the first round or 2 as written

and then yeah put less minions in later if they seem to be strugglling

Zachiel

hah, the point is just seeing all those people come in the inn and star wrecking things looking for them and punishing people who hosts them

Joshua Aslan Smith

whats the party makeup

Zachiel

However, this Warden has good defenses and is proving hard to circle around

@JoshuaAslanSmith a warden, a revenant warlock (infernal pact), a human shaman with lots of healing and a star pact sorcerer

wax eagle

16:52

wardens are nasty :). I loves me a dwarf earth-warden with a big hammer and CC working

Zachiel

and next week we're probably getting an archer ranger in the mix, because everyone loves strikers

wax eagle

nice, no controller and you really don't need one...int based skills might prove a challenge, but meh

Joshua Aslan Smith

hah

no book learnin

and the all striker party is certainly a 4e doable

Zachiel

if hard on the DM

wax eagle

def. Though I'm definitely of the mind that 3 leaders + 1 melee striker is preferred

Joshua Aslan Smith

16:57

haha

wax eagle

a bard, a shaman and a warlord walk into a bar...barian

Joshua Aslan Smith

4 warlords + 1 striker

Zachiel

poor barbarian

everyone is shouting orders at him

wax eagle

naw, he's a happy dude, he gets 4 attacks/round :)

Aaron

17:18

Ok so we have never used concentrate checks in our games because we have a newish GM and he is gradually adding rules as we get used to them so the games run better then if we tried to follow all the rules at once. My question is simple Concentrate checks DC are 10 + spell level with any situation modifiers right?

Zachiel

@Aaron 3.5e or PF?

I'm aware PF had a different thing but I don't know if it's still called concentration

Aaron

@Zachiel PF. It has concentration. I just found the page for it though.

There are a lot of modifiers.

GMNoob

17:35

I might be a bit late here, but when it's 4 players and designed for 5, I either leave them the same, or reduce bad guy HP by 10%-15% depending on how the fight is going.

Aaron

@GMNoob You might ping the person this is meant for.

GMNoob

@Zachiel see my post 2 above

Zachiel