TRPG General Chat

Inbar Rose

15:05

@BESW Please don't :P

BESW

I wouldn't dare.

Inbar Rose

And, when will you join Greece? Your character is ready, just need to revise it so you can enter the game.

BESW

Some NPCs, however...

@InbarRose I'm not sure I will/should. It's got more characters than I can wrap my head around easily, and since the setting/conceit doesn't give me any place to sink my teeth in and I'm not very excited about my character... I get the feeling I wouldn't be contributing much to the game.

I rushed into it unwisely.

I've been thinking about it all day, trying to see a way through.

Inbar Rose

Okay. You want to try a different character? Maybe one that fits what I asked for?

BESW

I could try, but honestly it's the setting and conceit that are probably my biggest stumbling block. That's the problem with my character--I unconsciously rebelled against the conceit.

Jack Lesnie

15:17

@InbarRose - Da Vinci Ironman flies. But he does so with unfolding glider wings, not jet-feet. Instead of rockets he has steam-propelled metal bolts with a chain to reel them back in, etc. Whimsical use of high-tech-for-the-era defines Ironman, as well as being a gentleman inventor.

BESW

See, I tried thinking of another character, and guess what I came up with? An Egyptian demigod far from home. Again--bucking the conceit.

That kinda tells me that even if we find a character concept that fits, I'm not going to "play nice" with the game's conventions.

If the engine were more familiar it might be a good opportunity for me to stretch my muscles as a player.

But I'm not very experienced as a player, and trying to learn a new system AND work in a game that I know will be a struggle for me? Not fair to anyone else involved, and doesn't sound like fun for me either.

Aaron

I need some build help in Pathfinder. Anyone got some time?

I have a very specific build and want to make it as close as possible to my idea.

Inbar Rose

Well, @BESW What does sound like fun for you?

BESW

Honestly I rarely give much thought to what would be fun to play.

I'm always in the running-games mindset.

Inbar Rose

I understand.

But you need to release that grip and relax sometimes

BESW

15:24

My experience as a player is almost exclusively in D&D 3.5, which taints my attitudes.

Inbar Rose

Dude - you need to broaden your horizons.

BESW

My favourite PC was a curmudgeonly wizard/cleric librarian with a glass cannon/support role.

I'm not a very... cooperative... player in any game. The reasons I'm a decent GM make me terrible at playing nice as a member of an ensemble cast.

Inbar Rose

Well buddy, I think you found a part of yourself to work on.

BESW

Indeed.

wax eagle

(tbh though, that level of self awareness is already quite positive)

BESW

15:28

But I'm not going to get good experiences by trying to work on it in a setting I'm uncomfortable in, with an engine I'm unfamiliar with.

Eugene Ryabtsev

@Aaron Some Pathfinder? Can do.

BESW

That's setting myself up to make others miserable.

Inbar Rose

Just because you know you are bad at playing tennis doesn't make you a better tennis player - you need to work at it. But yes, knowing your flaws is the first step to improvement

BESW

I am hoping to play in Storium at some point, but your Greek game isn't the place. I'm very grateful for the invite, but I need something different at this point and trying to force myself into that game would make everyone miserable very quickly.

To carry the tennis analogy, it would be like trying to learn tennis by playing left-handed.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW my writer tendencies make me have to fight with myself as both a player and GM because I always want total narrative control and have prejudice against non-writers abilities

Inbar Rose

15:34

I get you. BTW - as I said, the invite was for Storium, it was incidental that it was the Greece game, it just needs to be from inside a game. I told you then, and I tell you again - don't worry about joining the game unless you want to.

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith That's a stumbling block peculiar to text-based play which I didn't know I had until I started doing chat play here--but it's even more pronounced on Storium.

I'm very easily distracted by erratic style/grammar/punctuation.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW no this happens in in person RPGs as well

for me

I can actually let formatting errors go, its just I usually don't care about other peoples story ideas

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev The build's final product should be able to cast spells (Preferably through swords but that can be fluffed to make it seem that way.) And attack rapidly with multiple swords. The more attacks per round the better. Also a burst attack that increases attacks per round by a lot but leaves the user fatigued after would be awesome.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I lean toward the playerside more because being aggressive about narrative is more appropriate/accepted there so long as I dont trample everyone else, I am one of the protagonists so I should be making story influencing choices

As GM I get frustrated because I construct a world/scenario and (at least with my play groups) it tends to devolve to standard RPG tropes and jokes, nobody really inhabits a character

Eugene Ryabtsev

@Aaron Any ideas so far? Level, race, etc.

Aaron

15:40

@EugeneRyabtsev Race is custom docs.google.com/document/d/…

Inbar Rose

@JoshuaAslanSmith That's an education problem. You need to enable your players to learn and create an environment for the to explore and experiment so they can improve and grow.

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev Level will go into the 40s (Very high powered campaign.

@EugeneRyabtsev Right now I think the best thing is a magus and fighter multiclass build.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@InbarRose I feel like you have more idealistic views about players and/or people

Inbar Rose

I am a very positive person.

Pragmatic but positive, it leads to a very cynical view of things, though I don't believe I am cynical.

BESW

There is a strong environmental element to such things, but they also have to be open to the playstyle.

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:46

yeah no, Im soured idealist/realist I know its beyond any real expectation for people with zero acting background and an unwillingness to read 1 chapter in a splat book to get oversight in a completely new setting to actually roleplay a character beyond tropes

BESW

I've done a lot of learning about the influence of environments on groups, but in the end it won't be a positive influence unless it's accompanied by communication and agreement.

Inbar Rose

@JoshuaAslanSmith Find other people?

Joshua Aslan Smith

yes I recognize that I inherently cannot succeed in these attempts because the player pool isnt interested in serious storytelling more the most part

Inbar Rose

There are around 7 billion of the out there.

Joshua Aslan Smith

the issue is that my above situation describes and overwhelming majority of the roleplaying community at large

Inbar Rose

15:47

I disagree, I think that's a very pessimistic and narrow view of things.

Joshua Aslan Smith

For example I would love to play an actual RPG with BESW because his wit and well-read background seems to indicate that I would truly enjoy him as a GM or at least it would be a breath of fresh air, but our time differences make that all but impossible. Storium is inherently interesting to me because we can get sort of close to that experience.

Eugene Ryabtsev

@Aaron Oh, sorry then. I cannot really optimize anything above level 15. The power levels are insane by then, I have no idea how are you playing at 40s. Can discuss things, though, review gear etc. What's your gp budget? Also, with level 40 you can go full Magus + Synth. Not sure how much Synth is better than Ftr, but the arms are there, oh yes they are...

BESW

My first experience as a player was when a group invited me specifically to help them learn to role-play, because they'd tried for years to get over the hump and figure it out, but never quite managed it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@InbarRose Here's the thing my core play group was brand new to the hobby a few years ago but they were terribly tainted by general pop culture tropes and jokes and psudo-knowledge about D&D

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev The synth replaces all of your own physical scores though is the issue there.

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:50

So I basically need to find people who know nothing about it, get them interested and then, present the hobby as I see it should be.

its doable

but will probably take a few years

Eugene Ryabtsev

@Aaron By level 20 these are good physical scores. Besides, you'll get most of your scores from gear and buffs.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith or you could hit up the shops after you move

Inbar Rose

@JoshuaAslanSmith no. that's not a good approach .

BESW

Here's what I do: I talk. I have conversations.

Inbar Rose

Find people who are genuinely interested in role playing but that you notice are lacking in the necessary education and experience to do it "properly" and guide them.

BESW

15:53

I'm enthusiastic about these things, so I share them with my friends. And my players are my friends.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle I plan to see if theres a better/healthier roleplay community

in other areas but until then yeah im just gonn abrood about it

Inbar Rose

Those with motivation are the best, just because they lack the experience/education/knowledge you desire and instead use what they know from pop culture, does not mean they don't have motivation.

BESW

I invite them to try things with me. I share articles, talk about techniques, recount stories I've heard.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW the core playing group was/is comprised of the college friends I still talk to that live near me

BESW

If I'm enthusiastic, maybe they can share that enthusiasm--and in the sharing, learn about the tools for engaging with it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:54

I try to do that, one of them is interested in serious story, he became a GM for awhile so I think he shares my pain. I honestly feel everyone should GM at somepoint so that they can be a better player

BESW

And I explicitly invite them to join me in the things which excite me.

Inbar Rose

@JoshuaAslanSmith Great! Now all that is left is to let them know that there is more out there beyond the trops they see on tv. You should not do this during a game, but casually, and probably 1 on 1. Let them know you want to improve your gaming experience, and you are inviting them to join you.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@InbarRose Been there, done that, got the t-shirt that says "failed"

Inbar Rose

Dust off an try again.

Maurycy Zarzycki

So what's the topic, (hi by the way)?

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:56

its just conflicting but equally valid views about roleplay

Inbar Rose

No, it's not.

tropeplay is not roleplay.

It's a valid way to play a game, but it's not a role playing game. (Exceptions abound)

Maurycy Zarzycki

What is tropeplay?

Inbar Rose

Do you know what a trope is?

Maurycy Zarzycki

Yep

Inbar Rose

That.

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:58

I mean as always this comes down to a semantics issue

Maurycy Zarzycki

But pretty much everything is a trope?

Joshua Aslan Smith

It is a form of roleplaying

Maurycy Zarzycki

Unless you mean trope in a negative way

Cliche trope play?

Joshua Aslan Smith

cliches are cliches because of their overuse

you might subjectively think its bad roleplay

BESW

Tropes are tools. They are not bad or good except in the context of their use.

Inbar Rose

15:59

I can't talk longer, but I have more to say on this, maybe another time. Anyway, goodbye all.

Maurycy Zarzycki

@BESW Yep, but what I was referring to is that I've encountered a couple of times that sometimes when people say tropes, they mean overused cliched tropes

Aaaand I have to go

Joshua Aslan Smith

@inbarrose sure

BESW

Tropes are one of the best tools in my arsenal as a GM, in fact. Look at my first scene in the Scale Island campaign: you met a quest-giving bartender.

One of my favourite things to do is take established tropes and twist them just a teensie bit. Quest-giving bartender? Okay, how about the somewhat effeminate owner of a coffee shop?

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev Hmmm. What is the benefit of Syth over magus though? (Sorry for delay. Had something come up)

Zachiel

suddenly, 9 points to 10k rep.

BESW

16:06

(And one interesting thing about RPGs is that they can support more obvious, blunt use of tropes than other more pre-meditated and edited mediums.)

Eugene Ryabtsev

@Aaron I mostly thought about the benefit over fighter. Magus probably stays.

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev Hmm. The Syth isn't a bad alternative.

@EugeneRyabtsev Dang this might seal the deal though.

An eidolon grows an additional pair of limbs. These limbs can take one of two forms. They can be made into legs, complete with feet. Each pair of legs increases the eidolon’s base speed by 10 feet. Alternatively, they can be made into arms, complete with hands. The eidolon does not gain any additional natural attacks for an additional pair of arms, but it can take other evolutions that add additional attacks (such as claws or a slam).

Arms that have hands can be used to wield weapons, if the eidolon is proficient. This evolution can be selected more than once

There is no limit on how many times you can select this.

At level 2 I could have 4 extra limbs.

Eugene Ryabtsev

16:23

@Aaron Kali build, right.

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev Kali?

Eugene Ryabtsev

Kali

(, ), also known as (), is the Hindu goddess associated with empowerment, shakti. The name Kali comes from kāla, which means black, time, death, lord of death, Shiva. Since Shiva is called Kāla—the eternal time—Kālī, his consort, also means "Time" or "Death" (as in time has come). Hence, Kāli is the Goddess of Time and Change. Although sometimes presented as dark and violent, her earliest incarnation as a figure of annihilation of evil forces still has some influence. Various Shakta Hindu cosmologies, as well as Shākta Tantric beliefs, worship her as the ultimate reality or Brahma...

Aaron

@EugeneRyabtsev Lol. As I was reading the extra limbs I thought of something like that yea lol.

Zachiel

17:34

@AlexP you are supposed to realize you're just a pawn in the war ad end the campaign by rebelling to the high command, or at least this is what I've been told.

@SevenSidedDie I use this trick

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw move posted, let me know if you need edits, and/or if this is in keeping with the tone

Raven Dreamer

19:25

Can anyone think of a general term for fighting with a Shield + 1-handed Sword/Axe/Mace ?

wax eagle

@RavenDreamer sword and board

Raven Dreamer

@waxeagle Even when it's not a sword?

I'm calling Shield + Spear/Polearm "Phalanx Style", and I am at a loss as to what to call the former.

wax eagle

one handed melee works too really, shield is more or less implied there

(I'm not super familiar with fighting styles and names...what are you working on?

Joshua Aslan Smith

19:40

I present to you all

a kitten in the wind

2

Raven Dreamer

20:00

@waxeagle Homebrew stuff.

Lord_Gareth

@RavenDreamer That name is still common when it is not a sword

Joshua Aslan Smith

20:24

@RavenDreamer just looking for cool names? Hammer & Anvil for Shield + mace/hammer

Dane

@Lord_Gareth, I have a question about the planes.

When an extraplanar outsider comes to the Prime (via Gate, etc.), how real is its body? Does it remain upon death? Does it provide a source of nutrition?

Just as a weird hypothetical, might one Call (3.5e terminology) an Anarchic Goat (or whatever) and kill it and eat it and survive in such a way?

BESW

21:14

@JoshuaAslanSmith That's pretty great!

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw awesome

I cant stop looking at the kitten picture I posted

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith [croons nasally] The kiiiiiittens, my friend, are blowin' in the wind; the kiiiittens are blooowinnnn' iii--innn the winnnd.

Joshua Aslan Smith

hahahaha

Alex P

@Zachiel That's my understanding, more-or-less. Or not so much that you're a pawn as that it's a galactic "Exterminatus" (to borrow a 40k term) campaign without end. And also that Earth doesn't want any of you back, because the point of sending you out there is that there's nothing for you on Terra anymore.

Zachiel

21:29

I feel changed

[checks for text color]

[checks for diamond symbols]

[finds none]

Apparently I have 18 reputation.

In binary.

rpg.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/moderator-tools

BESW

Grats.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@zachiel Diamond mod status is voted mods

and there are yet more mod tools unlocked at 20k

only mxy, cross, and brianball will ever have diamonds unless we have elections again

Zachiel

@BESW How do I know I'm I-can-do-that-later Dash?

Sorcery?

Phil

21:46

Now that's impressive - putting "cat's kingdom" and rabbit in google now brings up that new question as the top result

BESW

Not too hard; when I tried it 15 minutes ago, I got nothing from "cat's kingdom" "killer rabbit".

Zachiel

that's strange

google.com/…

Phil

play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bullets.inc.NegonDash

Zachiel

this is the only search where I get nothing

BESW

How droll.

MC_Hambone

22:26

put up a whole bunch of hypotheticals in my Rap sesh if people are interested in looking at them. my campaign just shifted in focus (since we lost 1/2 the group to summer vacation) and I am just trying to stock pile Ideas on how to have fun and produce excitement in the upcoming story idea: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/13829/mc-hambones-rap-session

Phil

22:37

I'm going through a similar process with two games that I'm starting up in the next few weeks

Metool

heyo

Phil

Hey

Metool

Damn it all...

Phil

?

Metool

KRyan has dropped off the autocomplete list.

Phil

22:50

I'm sure there's a question around about making players afraid of death, but I can't find it

Metool

23:08

Is there a resource we can point to that explains why d20 spell resistance is a pain to have?

SevenSidedDie

23:21

KRyan and wax eagle get some fancy new voting privileges:

40

A: Increase close vote weight for gold tag badge holders

We're doing this for duplicates only to start, because it's incredibly silly not to do this. Not giving people with gold tag badges more abilities in their tags is just wasting some very valuable signal - here's why: If you have a gold badge in your tag, you know what's been asked before, in se...

SevenSidedDie

23:33

@Phil Maybe this one?

38

Q: How can I make my PCs flee?

My players never run away or avoid conflict. Ever. I throw them ridiculous encounters, they will stay and fight. If I tell them, "You know you're not gonna make it, just run," they stay and fight and blame me, the GM, for the casualties. They complain my encounter was too hard etc. When I tell th...

Phil

That's the one - do you think that's a duplicate of....

4

Q: Dealing with "fearless" players

I have some "badass" players in my group who do not fear death, 4 out of 6 to be precise, which causes problems for the rest players as they feel they are always getting dragged into trouble, trying not to break the group in two. When I say they do not fear death, even if I brought the whole pant...

system-agnostic problem-players

SevenSidedDie

Though it might be different enough to not be an exact duplicate. Definitely related though.

Phil

Yeah, reading it's answers I don't think it's a dup

doppelgreener

When your party has a bard and there’s an enemy bard: enderbornmage.tumblr.com/post/85021096534/…

Lord_Gareth

23:50

@Dane I HEAR THE SUMMONS

@Dane Depends on its method of arrival. The Summon Monster line of spells create a replacement body; its body is "real" but not its own in that case, and when it dies its own body reforms wherever it was before it was summoned.

@Dane Using the Gate or Planeshift spells, walking through a Portal, traveling through the Astral Plane, or otherwise physically arriving is, perforce, different.

In these cases, the Outsider takes their body/soul unit with them; they exist, and are wholly present. Killing them truly is still difficult. Most gods and outsiders will simply reform after a certain amount of time if you use something as mundane as violence or death on them. Even low-ranking devils like an Erinyes can simply reform, in time.

So while they're "dead" if you kill 'em it's more like "gone for awhile"

Most outsiders, once slain, will eventually disperse back into planar energy. However, it's important to note that their bodies are material. The Outer Planes could also be called the Outer Material Planes or the Secondary Material Planes.

They are made of stuff

It's just that aforementioned stuff is not the same stuff as the stuff from the Prime Material Plane

Getting an Anarchic Goat or something similar can be as simple as using Lesser Planar Binding, Gate, that kind of thing. The only thing you need to worry about at that point is killing it. However, if you have access to such puissant sorcery, I cannot imagine why you would be short on food. Ever.

Transcript for