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02:00
Heh, that reminds me of a thing.
"Is Polaris a roleplaying game even though it's GM-less and stuff?" "Yes, because I was partially inspired by Dungeons & Dragons."
@AlexP being GM-less doesn't make it not a roleplaying game, but being inspired by D&D certainly doesn't make it a roleplaying game, either
@AlexP Ahhh, my brain.
@KRyan Yeah, it's wrong in both directions!
@SevenSidedDie a pair of non sequiturs
@KRyan That's better-put than "wrong", yes.
02:02
@SevenSidedDie useful here in that it's literally the case; this Polaris may or may not be an RPG, but neither of those facts leads to any conclusion of that question
@KRyan Yes.
Speaking of, Polaris is probably my favourite RPG that I'm sure I'll never get my group to play a campaign of.
@SevenSidedDie never heard of
right now I'm trying desperately to get my DM, who is extremely bitterly disappointed with D&D despite loving what he sees as its themes and settings (I imagine he'd get along very well in your group, actually), to give Fate a shot, because I think he could run a brilliant Fate game
but he refuses mostly just to spite someone who tried to push him too hard to use it
@KRyan That's unfortunate. And Fate really, really needs you to like it for it to work well.
@KRyan Maybe try something like the Lady Blackbird engine instead, then?
@KRyan It's sort of a fairy tale. You play a knight of the people, the very first people, who are dying now that the Sun has been born and demons and everywhere. Structurally it's a round-robin thing where each player adopts different roles serially to tell a bunch of interlocking but distinct stories (think knights of the Round Table).
02:07
@SevenSidedDie mm, but I think he really would enjoy it if he just, ya know, would
And the mechanics push you towards inevitable decline.
@KRyan Polaris is tragic ice elves at the north pole before human history began, at the end of their own history. A bit Atlantis, except ice.
@BESW not familiar with it, got a link?
The mechanical selling point is that what you say you do, just happens. The risk and compromise and all the juicy stuff of game systems all happens right after, but you get what you say first.
02:08
@SevenSidedDie that is pretty cool, if they can make it work
definitely a plus to never have to say no, without it always being you getting whatever you want
@KRyan Mechanically Lady Black Bird has a dice pool game where you have primary "aspects" with secondary specifics. For every thing on your character sheet that's relevant to what you're doing, add a die to your pool.
though I do worry that it might turn into a game of carefully-worded-wishes
@KRyan It works off a "well okay, but here's the price" kind of system. The negotiation is mediated by specific ritual phrases (basically conversational moves you're allowed to make), which chain until something complex and unexpected emerges.
Character progression in LB comes from doing things that are relevant to your character's concept, or from changing those things as part of the story.
@BESW hmm, I see that being a tough sell on a number of levels
02:10
You guys are interleaving Lady Blackbird and Polaris here. >.>
@AlexP yes
@SevenSidedDie ok, I like the concept of negotiation on this
also, brilliant for a fey game
@KRyan Which is, sorry?
@Metool the description of Polaris that's being given
@KRyan So speaking of Fate, I'd solve that problem by yeah, getting him to try a short-form game that's in the neighbourhood, conceptually. So Lady Blackbird, yeah.
negotiating and consequences and the like
02:12
(FWIW, if you want a longer-form Lady Blackbird so you can see more bits and bobs to mess with, look at The Shadow of Yesterday — version 2 is much better than version 1 — or The Solar System.)
Those are the antecedent games.
Polaris is a descendant of Archipelago II, which was published online right there, so people can check out a less-formally-structured version of the negotiation thing. Polaris really turns it up to 11 though.
I feel like he'd be turned off by the airship, though I could be wrong on that front, and uh... most of the group has expressed distaste for dice pools
though that's probably me more than anyone else in the group
(bad experience with Exalted 2e)
I had to roll and tally up several hundred dice the first time a combat started
I'm trying to think of some Fate relatives that would be worth trying, but I'm blocking on Houses of the Blooded and not getting farther. (That one is no good for a palate-cleanser game, too long.)
@KRyan The Shadow of Yesterday uses Fudge dice for the same thing. 3dF + stat instead of Lady Blackbird's small-d6-pool system.
Default setting is post-apocalyptic-ish fantasy (like Tower of Babel stuff). With solipsistic elves and hedonistic goblins and rats who are... well, rats.
I recall a copy of the text online, but I can only find the version-1 text, which isn't nearly as good mechanically. :/
@AlexP that sounds pretty solid
I'll keep all of these in mind
02:18
@KRyan If you like Lady Blackbird's Keys, consider checking out TSOY. If you don't, then look elsewhere. ;)
@SevenSidedDie more than likely, he'd prefer to run his own game, he needs to see a system that impresses him and he's probably not going to run it to determine that fact
@KRyan but but but, rolling dice is fun, rolling dice it the whole point to playing RPGs! MOAR DICE MOAR WINZ!!!!!!!
@KRyan Hm. The alternative route might be to get him hooked on the Dresdenverse novels, then point out that there's an RPG. It's a good implementation of Fate, too.
@SevenSidedDie heh, been trying to do that too, for reasons unrelated to RPGs
that one he just hasn't gotten around to; he agrees they sound good and up his alley
@SevenSidedDie problem with that is dresden hooked GMs tend to want to play heavilly canon despite the dresden books explicitly saying, this is the same world, but yeah, dont retread that stuff
@SevenSidedDie 4e charge optimized melee striker
though honestly that remind me far far more of Shadowrun sessions
Omg, this is the best grognards.txt:
White Wolf Game Studio is Dead. Death To Storygaming Is Nigh.
@JoshuaAslanSmith They're all somewhat exaggerated. :)
@JoshuaAslanSmith I probably have to wait to hit "play" on that. Young ears nearby.
02:25
oh yes most definitely
@JoshuaAslanSmith I think that's partly solvable by insisting that the supernatural aspects of your city be inspired by the actual city's character and history.
Wait, is White Wolf actually dead?
@AlexP this is my new favorite twitter
white wolf game studio was assumed by CCP white-wolf.com
@JoshuaAslanSmith which is a really weird combination if ever there was one
CCP is weird
merged is what they say but CCP games is definitely the controller
@kryan CCP Games was developing a WoD Vampire the Masquerade MMO for a few years until a montha go
02:29
Like, here in Vancouver, we'd be remiss if we didn't have heavy doses of native American supernatural stuff, as well as influences from Hong Kong. (Though that specific thing does mean playing a decent DFRPG game here would be hard to pull of without involving offensive stereotyping :/ .)
when the axed the project
Currently the way White Wolf stuff works is that they don't develop anything internally but farm it all out to Onyx Path or whoever.
I think CCP still controls white wolf but not sure how things will shake out with the game being cancelled
So it's like an IP holding company.
@SevenSidedDie I imagine you could avoid being offensive by being reasonably accurate
02:29
I know a lot of CCP staff that were working on it got the boot
but perhaps not since so much of it is the symbolism and pulpy tradition
So there were a bunch of "20th anniverasry" WoD games last year and this year there is a 3rd Edition Exalted. But these are all produced under license, basically.
@KRyan That's the first step, yeah. It gets harder when you're making culturally-derived things actually magical though.
Oh I know the our city stuff, but I mean my DM was very beholden to not doing things outside the book, I was like so can I build a non-arcane weapons expert thats really good at using arcane knowledge to murder people
@SevenSidedDie sure
02:30
like silver bullets for werewolves
@JoshuaAslanSmith but like... that's totally in the books
multiple people fit that description in the books, for that matter
I think he got hung up on how I pitched it
@JoshuaAslanSmith That seems like a reasonable character type that would fit the books...
@JoshuaAslanSmith perhaps
basically my character would be Frank Castle meets John Constantine
02:32
what I wanted to do, and was nixed on, having not read the books, was a wizard who, instead of fritzing technology, worked almost purely with technology
I think the books hint at enough that that's relatively plausible, but it probably wouldn't ever happen in the books
@KRyan Hm, I can see that being a hard sell. The books and RPG pretty much straight-up say magic and tech are anathema. But I could see it, if it was pitched as a unique ability, special, unknown why it works. If it was pitched as just no big deal though, as if it's run-of-the-mill and normal, that would give me pause, for undermining a bunch of the how-magic-works stuff that is part of the shared understanding of the world.
@SevenSidedDie yeah, it was pitched as a special thing, but ultimately I didn't have enough background in the books at that point in time to really do it justice in terms of placing it in the world
and even if I had, yeah, tough sell
Gotta go set out dinner now. G'night eveyone! This has been a most interesting chat day...
@JoshuaAslanSmith We have psychic! I'm getting ready for lift-off.
@BESW I have zero Ideas of which you speak, never read the books, my only primer was to watch the lame, but passable syfy show that lasted 1 series
02:39
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm talking about the Storium game, actually.
@SevenSidedDie Agreed, and good night!
@BESW AWESOME!
I think I can have the first scene up within the hour.
@besw Im enjoying our flawed but driven characters
total raymond chandler vibe, you choice of image and name of the cafe proprietor reinforcing that in my mind.
It's kind of "Quatermain, as written by Chandler, meets HP Lovecraft."
Lots of D&D themes and ideas, but veering strongly away from D&D aesthetics and ethos.
02:53
yep
which I am 100 percent on board with
this sounds pretty epic
I'm jealous
When I get more comfortable with the system we'll see if I want to continue and if I can handle more players in the game.
My ultimate goal is to design a Storium game that can handle a large number of erratic players, so I can run a game with friends who I can't play with normally because of distance, babies, work, etc.
This is a practice run.
@BESW nice! I need to figure out something along those lines myself, because that describes uh... almost everyone I play with
as well as myself, heh
@KRyan I currently have one regular player.
Which makes it hard to keep momentum up; we often wind up watching Netflix on Saturday nights instead.
heh, yeah
03:00
And a lot of my friends who I'd like to play with are scattered across the globe, including people in this chat.
mm
BESW getting a STorium account became a dream come true
We'll see.
Okay, first scene is up.
@JoshuaAslanSmith By the way, Ricky is a double reference to two different fictional characters. One should be very obvious; the other may become clearer later but there are nods to him already.
Neither is important to know for the story we're telling, but I like throwing in little easter eggs.
allusions are the best kind of in-joke
must resist urge to talk like bogart in every noir movie ever
03:19
Anybody with a Storium account can watch our game if they like.
2
04:17
@MC_Hambone [wave]
howdy!
that storium thing looks pretty neat
I'm cautiously hopeful.
are you live streaming it anywhere other than that site?
No, Storium is a text-based play-by-post engine.
uh ohhh.... I just noticed my chat room got frozen.... D:
04:22
If you want a room unfrozen, just ask Waxeagle.
like in here or someplace specific?
Just ping him here.
Any mod of any SE site can do it, and he's kindly offered his services.
cool
Hey @waxeagle can you unfreeze my chat room "MC Hambone's Rap Session"? Thanks!
Well while that get's sorted out... I'll ask about this here.... Do players that are changelings have to make a bluff check or something similar against the other players at the table?
specifically in a situation where the player has not told the rest of the players he is a changeling and wants to keep it a secret from everyone
04:40
11
Q: Tips on playing a character whose goals run contrary to his outward actions (to the other PCs)

IzkataSo, in one of the previous campaigns I played, I had a character whose own personal goals often ended up at odds with the rest of the party (who all agreed with each other). It was difficult to figure out how to try and complete those goals without everyone else wanting to beat my character sens...

11
Q: How to use social skills versus player characters

Erik BurigoIf the game system in use supports a mechanical modelling of social knack (like D&D's Bluff, Intimidate and Diplomacy skills), and the player who is subject of the social attack doesn't play his character according to the outcome of the check, the game could put some players in a bad mood. Whi...

12
Q: Can a PC use his Charisma to influence other PCs in D&D 3.5?

RobertFChecking the D&D 3.5 Player's Handbook rules, the rules are explicit that the Diplomacy skill cannot be used to influence other PCs, only NPCs. But I see no such restrictions for Intimidate or Bluff. I can see an unscrupulous high Charisma PC using either skill to, for example, get his way when ...

See if any of those help.
thanks! :D I searched "changeling" on the site and didnt find anything helpful.... i knew you guys would know of stuff I want XD
I searched terms like "secret," "player," and "bluff."
 
1 hour later…
06:12
@agradine Hello!
Hello!
07:00
@InbarRose [wave] First scene is up.
Heyo.
hey
well it was fun chatting for a minute time to go study for finals. Good night/morning all!
Pfff, righto. Bye.
07:15
Good Morning.
@BESW Cool, I will get to it in a moment.,
No rush.
07:53
I had to do my scene in The Lightside Chronicles.
It's looking good! :)
08:10
Played.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
:)
Are you following my Lightside Chronicles story?
What is 'Storium'
@JackLesnie Glad you asked. storium.com
08:26
I have music on and don't want to listen to someone talking. But from what I can gather, it's like a browser story game that a GM can write and edit and design as an adventure?
@JackLesnie Pretty much. It's a browser-based play-by-post engine.
Well, it looked like it had built in mechanics and stuff. Play by post is usually a published system, but on a forum.
It has A system. But it's not really a system, it's just a way to progress the story and resolve conflict in a very simple narrative driven way. It has resemblance to some of the concepts in Fate.
I have seen some games that are using systems like WOD or D&D in addition to this system, but not many. It is more of a collaborative story than a game.
@BESW BTW - you still need to resubmit your character for the greece game,.
Mmm. I'm thinking about it.
09:00
"The Next Round: Hundreds of the Guardians of Time show up and one of them screams out, "THIS IS AN UNSANCTIONED VIOLATION OF SPACE-TIME."
Pictured Above, Good GMing.
... wha?
@JackLesnie I don't know about that.
In the context of; giantitp.com/forums/…
'I recently had a fight as a PC wizard against my personal nemesis, a necromancer of some power. Both of us were level 18 at the time, and I entered into the fight knowing that I'd be teleported within 30 feet of him by a god for whom I'd recently done a favor, so it went like this:

Pre-Battle: Multiple and in some cases redundant layers of buffs from spells, scrolls, activated items, and potions. Craft several Contingent spells.

Teleport: Multiple crafted Contingent Teleport Cages fire off. In all they cost me a level and a half (plus the other crafted Contingencies) but they make an imm
It's seeing two shitty outcomes, either 'you kill him' or 'he pulls some bullshit and kills you' and pole-vaulting those two options to go for the awesome third one. That's what makes a good GM.
And that is one of the reasons I don't like D&D.
The mechanics take over the game.
yes, yes
09:04
Hey - there are many reasons why I like D&D. That is one reason I don't like it.
But regarding time stop, it's a transmutation spell that speeds up the user to the point where they perceive everything around them to be slowed to nothing.
That's an illusion. The DM has the ability to create whatever mechanics he likes to support his monsters or NPCs, so the only thing stopping you taking the Time Guardian option is a lack of imagination.
@Metool; Yes, but it's quibbling detail and the GM immediately saw that it makes a better story if it doesn't. That's why it's good GMing. Changing a minor setting detail on the fly to allow a boring situation to suddenly become awesome.
Also he did suddenly disconnect a 1000' area from the astral plane, and well, maybe observing Time at too high a speed blows it up or something.
Suddenly having to run away from Time Cops in the middle of a trap you yourself made while maybe ending up running away alongside your nemesis-of-a-moment-ago and fighting or co-operating while also still running away is a much cooler scene than telefragging your nemesis.
You can go to a lot of places with RAW, but most of them are bad. The fact is that DnD without rule 0 is a completely terrible game no-one should ever play*.

* - except people I hate.
Er, telefragging is a totally different thing, wherein you teleport inside someone and they die, right?
Teleganking, telefragging, potato, tomato
To prevent players being stuck inside each other or summat?
09:11
In DnD, Telefragging is not a thing. You get shunted out of stuff you teleport into, by RAW. That includes creatures.
So instead of being a transmutation spell, it's now... universal? or what?
@JackLesnie I am well aware, and am referring to certain game engines.
Kind of. I think they just thought it was cool in Quake or wherever did it first.
Or someone was standing on teleporters and shooting people who teleported in the back or something in beta.
Probably the latter, really.
No, that's a form of camping.
I mean why they made it so if someone is standing on the teleport-to zone when someone steps on the teleport-from zone, they explode into giblets.
'telefragging'
Ah, I see.
You'd probably have to dig quite deep to find the origin, at this point.
(Or look at Wikipedia, I suppose.)
09:14
Not so far as future Entertainment-Archeologists.
Data Archeologists?
[eats cold medicine, suffers PSYCHE drain]
Yeah... i'd just suffer through that rather than take that 'cold and flu' shit.
I speak as someone who once sneezed so hard he smashed his face open on a wall
09:30
@BESW You might find this interesting, 11 different funeral traditions from around the world. Gave me a nice idea for a game.
09:58
I've used sky burials in a couple of my campaigns.
Around the World in Eighty Days describes the Balinese cremation.
Sky burials are described in the graphic novel World's End.
And describing the act of partying with the recently-deceased as "unique" is... kinda narrow-sighted, considering some of the very Western films on the subject which have come out in the last decade.
There are Western services which will press your beloved's ashes into a diamond and set it in jewellery.
I know that these things are not unheard of. It's just interesting to see them all in the same place, and I never thought to use them in stories. You seem unusually critical (but then again, with only your words to read, I can't know your true meaning)
I am a bit critical of an article which presents foreign funerary customs as spectacles for "ordinary people" to gawk about. I know that's not the deliberate intent, but it's kind of unavoidable--especially when things like dressing up the dead, which are totally common in America, get presented as "unique" for apparently no reason except that Other People do it.
10:19
However--yes, I have used unfamiliar funerary traditions in my games as part of my constant quest to find ways to snap players out of their complacent expectations about a setting and get them interested in exploring and learning and immersing themselves in the world.
I like using RPGs as a method of exploring other ways of looking at the world, and I like to think it's one reason my players enjoy my games.
personally, I do think it is a bit silly to try to romanticize, or gawk at, funeral rites that some people do that others don't
Wow. That debate between SevenSidedDie and KRyan last night went on for a loooong time.
even within the same country, some people are gonna want different things for their funerals, or are going to want to grieve differently.
I look at "dress the body in their best clothes, sit them on a chair and place a lit cigarette in their lips" and I'm thinking, "Has this person not seen the Irish wakes in popular media like The Wire?"
Or is it only weird when brown people do it?
yeah
that is part of my issue with it too
10:35
@MC_Hambone if you still need this thawed, please link it up as a reply and I'll get it when I get into work (or whenever after that)

 MC Hambone's Rap Session

This room is for anyone who wants to help Hambone discuss idea...
11:00
@waxeagle How does the auto-lock on chat rooms work? How long does it have to be inactive?
@InbarRose Two weeks.
So it's not based on anything else?
Can a room be "protected" from being locked?
Storium is addicting.
I already feel it.
I need my fix man! All my stories are waiting. I have made my move in all of them.... I just can't get enough....
I am narrating 2 stories, and am playing in 3... Maybe I should join another?
11:29
@BESW Feel me? [He said in his best gangster impression]
Someone is making a Firefly game on Storium (Woohoo)
11:48
good morning
[wave]
@InbarRose Meh. I usually just dig deeper into what I've got going on. Like making more objects for Scale Island.
I'm also considering what will be good for my massive game.
12:08
@BESW That's nice. I don't pre-make the cards in my games, I don't see the point too much... But anyway, I just submitted a character to the FireFly Game.
Mornin
AH-HA!
@DuckTapeal You know where Baby Roo is?
@Aaron Y'all keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
@InbarRose Mmm. That's one thing which is making it hard for me to feel your game.
12:12
I found an official WotC 3.5 source that says clearly that you can't use higher level bonus spells than you can normally cast!
@lisardggY Good [Insert your time here]
@BESW hmmm?
@Aaron The Reverse World Tree has transcended time!
"As with bonus weaves granted by high ability scores, these weaves can be used only when the channeler is of high enough level to cast them."
12:13
@BESW You don't see the cards anyway, what does it matter?
Whell of Time RPG, page 53.
Well, not "transcended" as such.
Maybe "wasted" is a better verb.
@InbarRose By not providing character cards, you make it harder for me to know what your game is like. Pre-made cards, whether players use them or not, set the tone and style of the game, give a sense of what kind of people live in the world and what kind of troubles they have.
@BESW My statement would still stand. He just has his own unique time in that case.
Staring at the compiler.
Staring.
Staring.
12:15
When you stare into the compiler, the compiler stares back into you....
@BESW I suppose that's correct. But I did say clearly that players should create their own. And I set the tone with the description, and with the few cards I did provide (Although, indeed if I did include more cards it would be more expanded) I don't think my lack of cards hurts the game.
@InbarRose yes, if it is the last public room associated with a site that is open, it will never be frozen.
Okay.
So no site has an official chat room?
@InbarRose not really, no
that was put in place to try to preserve main chats from being frozen, but if you're on a site that is more likely to have people take comments to chat than have people talk in a main site, it breaks down
Elsa is sort of indiscriminate like that.
12:31
interesting
@waxeagle Elsa having more of a "let it go" philosophy?
@waxeagle I literally started giggling in bed when I got the SE update notification from @jonathonhobbs about the typo for fried, further laughing because despite having the privileges to edit it, he just commented on it to make fun off me.
@BESW aye
@JoshuaAslanSmith definitely, that's a type to point and laugh at :)
I recently realized there was a page 2 to my questions
and that my oldest questions had escaped my edits
so gdoing them soon
@JoshuaAslanSmith How is Reese doing?
12:46
hahaha
Im trying to resist going full batman
What do you mean?
not in response to anything
Im just saying future character development
Oh....
Rich guy + Powersuit + Gadgets?
Hmmm
I just had a wicked wonderful idea.
Best summed up in 2 3 words: Da Vinci Batman
@InbarRose AKA gearpunk Iron Man?
@BESW no
more like gearpupnk batman
Batman has a different flavor than Ironman
12:53
@InbarRose No quite this, but more physically trained and fit individual with a thirst for justice. the gadgets are very secondary to batman in my opinion
@InbarRose gotham by gaslight
Batman is dark and broody, haunting the nights and slinking around the rooftops, Ironman is in the spotlight, he is a hero, he fights in the daylight against big enemies, not the street criminals and thugs.
Also ... Ironman can fly....
I don't see that working in gearpunk Da Vinci world.
I feel like it is much more than that, but I dont know if I wanna derail chat with my Batman/BruceWayne Manifesto
Let's take it to the bar
@jonathanhobbs no I was laughing, sorry I actually enjoyed your lack of editing to fix it
13:12
@JoshuaAslanSmith glad to hear it ;)
 
1 hour later…
14:20
@JoshuaAslanSmith No rush or anything, but I do eagerly await your first "move."
14:42
@besw working on it raight now
picked up some things....
fyi, you need to generate multiple stakcs if you want multiple players to be able to pick them up
When I picked up the tin matchbox it took all 3 instances of it
I want each person to have different things.
In part, it's a kind of a character test.
If a player wants another stack of something someone else picked up, they can narrate it and I can grant it. But I want to encourage differentiation.
trying to figure out the best one liner to open with thats the perfect blend of sardonic wit, cynicism and confrontational attitude.
gotcha, makes sense
@JoshuaAslanSmith "That's what she said."

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