TRPG General Chat

doppelgreener

12:00

@BESW Ok, well, once as in the storytelling usage of the word xD I don't mean you only did it one time

BESW

@JonathanHobbs ...I'll allow it.

doppelgreener

Tell me more about these misadventures

BESW

Well, are you thinking of the druergar who got twice as big when she hit bloodied?

She was something like three levels higher, and a soldier.

To make the fight finally just end I gave her penalties to AC because of their fat jokes.

(She got too mad to keep her guard up.)

MC_Hambone

Lol 2 the fat jokes comment

@*

BESW

And most everyone who's run Keep on the Shadowfell knows the pain of Irontooth.

Irontooth is a level 3 brute in a level 6 encounter designed for level 1 PCs.

MC_Hambone

12:04

seems legit

BESW

His lowest defence is higher than most level 1 NPCs are capable of achieving.

He hits like a truck, and turns into the Juggernaut when he's bloodied.

MC_Hambone

but he is at th end right?

doppelgreener

@BESW That's the one.

BESW

And he's got a ridiculous HP pool because he's a brute.

MC_Hambone

i dont think I ran it... but i do remember reading is a few years back, if the PCs do everything up to then cant they reach lvl 2 before it?

BESW

12:05

Yes.

MC_Hambone

they should be able to hit him at lvl 2 then right?

BESW

So even if you don't trigger his encounter during the previous encounter, which is pretty common, you wind up with a guy who just won't go down, backed up by a healer, and when he's bloodied he gets bonuses to damage and automatically heals every turn on his own.

@MC_Hambone They can hit him, just not very often, and they're dealing pitiful level 1 damage against a level 3 elite brute.

His attack bonuses are good, so he's hitting most of the time.

You get a guy with a ton of hp, who is hard to hit, who deals a lot of damage and hits most of the time.

MC_Hambone

are there environmental things that can make the fight easier?

BESW

If he'd been a level 1 solo, he would've had more attacks that deal less damage each, so the tank wouldn't have been yo-yoing from healthy to death's door and back.

@MC_Hambone Not really, no.

MC_Hambone

:(

i am a fan of pushing ofver braziers and setting people on fire

BESW

12:09

The lesson to be learned is that you use elite/solo, not level advancement, to make creatures more challenging.

Because level advancement screws with the numbers really fast.

It's one of the primary causes of fights lasting for hours in real time.

MC_Hambone

you mean just stats? or like premature leveling up?

BESW

I mean making an NPC be something other than the party's level in order to change how challenging the NPC will be.

MC_Hambone

how would you deal with having 9 players at your table? combat can get pretty damn lengthy at that point

BESW

Yeeeeah. I've had that many for a couple sessions, and... if it was a regular thing I'd change systems.

MC_Hambone

i did ok a few weeks ago pitting some ghosts and skeletons up against the party and said that the ghosts were immune to physical damage... it effectively split the party into to simultenous encounters

two*

BESW

12:13

There are some gimmicks you can use, but it quickly becomes one-note because you're limited to a very small range of encounter types.

4e's strength is in its ability to present a wide array of tactical challenges, with each encounter being new and cool.

MC_Hambone

but yea I am thinking 4e is not the greatest system for 9 players... unfortuneatly for me it's my most familiar system, the players like it and I like literally JUST started a fairly long story arc XD

BESW

If your party makeup restricts that significantly...

@MC_Hambone Talk to @JonathanHobbs; he's had experience asking a just-started 4e group about switching horses mid-stream.

He wanted to move them from 4e to Fate Core without actually changing the campaign, just the system.

doppelgreener

then stopped XD

BESW

Changing systems can be a hard sell because of the sunk costs fallacy, but if it's becoming clear that the group isn't happy with the current state of affairs...

doppelgreener

we have had significant trouble getting together regularly

Aaron

12:16

Any recommended builds for my next optimization exercise?

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Yes, but you succeeded at the topic at hand. It fell apart for other reasons, but you got them to be excited about moving to Fate Core and if/when you restart that's probably what you'll be doing.

MC_Hambone

like i said they seem to like the system, and combat hasnt been too long but i have been under populating fights

doppelgreener

@BESW That is completely true.

Heck, after the move it turns out two of them preferred low- or no-magic and one was happy either way.

MC_Hambone

just to make them faster... granted they have been fights that amount to trash mobs in a mmorpg dungeon so far

BESW

@MC_Hambone One strategy I used was to massively reduce the amount of time I spent on NPC turns.

I did this three ways.

doppelgreener

12:18

15

Q: How can I speed up combat with a large number of enemies?

I'm DMing for a campaign where the player characters will sometimes face small squads of creatures, most recently six ground troops and two archers helping out. In this setting, these creatures dominate the land the PCs are in and have an organised military, hence squads of enemies. Combat tends...

oh hey look it's a BESW answer

13

A: How can I speed up combat with a large number of enemies?

I've had similar issues, and been experimenting. Here are some of my findings: ALWAYS have strategies in mind. Your squad has two, maybe three pre-determined strategies and the ever-available "every man for himself" panicking. They engage with one strat, move to the other if the situation calls...

BESW

First: I reduced the number of options on my NPCs. I made sure they had useful, cool MBA and RBA powers and then asked myself seriously about whether they needed anything else. Sometimes I gave them a passive thing too.

MC_Hambone

my current team is Wizard, Sorcerer, Paladin, Monk, Sword/Board Fighter, Psion, Ranger, Warlord and a shaman that comes intermittantly

if that matters at all...

BESW

Second: I reduced the number of NPC turns. If you want a horde fight, use minions because your PCs will clear them out fast. If you have more than one NPC of the same type, they take their turns at the same initiative count.

MC_Hambone

i like the simultaneous attack idea

BESW

Third: I standardised NPC damage expressions to use d6s, when I didn't just use fixed damage expressions (like minions have).

This drastically reduced the amount of time it took to roll and calculate damage.

doppelgreener

12:21

controller, striker, defender, ??, defender, ??, striker, leader, leader

the ??'s being for monk and psion

Joshua Aslan Smith

whud up jams

BESW

I also cut NPC health by about 25-30% and used Level 1 Equivalent Damage.

Joshua Aslan Smith

talkin bout some 4e combat optimization?

MC_Hambone

yea its like 3 controllers, 2 leaders, 2 defenders and 2 strikers

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah, @MC_Hambone has 9 players and his combats take all the forevers.

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:23

ouch

BESW

@mantal, @André Hi!

mantal

Hi

Joshua Aslan Smith

9 player party 4e would def be taxing as a gm

MC_Hambone

...although the shaman is very intermittant and the warlord (also sometimtes a rogue) just got a promotion at work and is becmoing itntermittant

André

hey @BESW

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:23

if a system move was possible I would say D&D Next or Dungeonworld

I love 4e but the difference between 5 players and 6 is even pretty big

BESW

@MC_Hambone There are also some social things you can do. If they talk over each other and that makes things take longer, get a stuffed animal (no hard bits like glass eyes) and name it the Hedgehog (or whatever animal it is) of Discourse.

MC_Hambone

When /12 my group goes home for summer (we are all in university) I think my local group is going to try D&D Next

Joshua Aslan Smith

its definitely got its problems

BESW

Aside from the GM, only the person holding the Hedgehog of Discourse may speak.

Joshua Aslan Smith

it wont ever replace 4e for me but its interesting in its beta ness

MC_Hambone

12:25

I really want a sonic plush doll now...

Joshua Aslan Smith

hahahaha

BESW

Get a little whiteboard, a metal bookend, and two magnets.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I was like I really hope the hedgehog of discource is a classic sonic stuffed animal

BESW

Write initiative on the whiteboard, with names and space for tracking conditions.

Use one magnet on the foot of the bookend to prop up the whiteboard so everyone can see it. Use the other to indicate whose turn it is.

MC_Hambone

is this for players edification, i usually just do my tracking in a notebook, I'm a crazy horder/archivist

BESW

12:26

Assign someone other than you to be in charge of it.

MC_Hambone

ahh gotchya player edification

BESW

It reduces your burden, gives them agency, prevents the constant "Who's next and am I still marked?", and--perhaps most importantly--helps remind them to plan their turn before their turn arrives.

MC_Hambone

currently I say things like "Darius, your turn, Wolfgar you're on deck and Cygna's in the hole" to let them know who is going now, next and "3rd"

Joshua Aslan Smith

^ What besw just said

BESW

@MC_Hambone That's very good, but if you can externalise it and make that their responsibility, it's likely to speed things up all around.

MC_Hambone

12:28

yeppers, my 'on deck' order gets them thinking

Joshua Aslan Smith

I think his point is your hands are full if your runing the monsters to balance out 9 players

theres lots of GM work that can be contracted out to helpful players

MC_Hambone

...you know that might actually be good for the couple players i have that get distracted on their phones

BESW

Delegate, delegate, delegate. You've got nine players. I'm sure one of your challenges is that when P2 is taking his turn, P9 is chatting with P5 and P1 is playing 2048.

Joshua Aslan Smith

the phone thing! THE PHONE THING!

MC_Hambone

he knows

BESW

12:29

Give them responsibility, and it keeps them in the game when it's not their turn.

MC_Hambone

:D

Joshua Aslan Smith

►

BESW

Handy tip from working with kids: if someone's got a regular problem with controlling a particular impulse, make him in charge of ensuring nobody does it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

^devious

MC_Hambone

@BESW

LOVE IT

BESW

12:31

If you've got an NPC with an out-of-turn ability that triggers when X happens, assign a player to notice and remind you when X happens.

Reduces your burden and forces him to pay attention to the game.

You'll find that turns go a lot faster when the players have been paying attention on other peoples' turns.

MC_Hambone

how do you stop them using their laptops for things like Facebook, if they have digital versions of the books/character sheets?

André

turn off the wifi

MC_Hambone

good in theory but we play in a building on campus

:(

André

sadpanda.jpg

BESW

That's a challenge. Removing WiFi doesn't keep them from playing Dungeons of Dredmore or Dwarf Fortress.

(I've had both at my table)

André

12:33

I suppose a good talk about it works.

BESW

@André This.

André

ohgawd @BESW

BESW

And don't make it a "GM lays down the law" talk.

André

Talk about committing to the game

BESW

Make it a "We have this problem, how will we, as a group, address it?" talk.

MC_Hambone

12:34

I feel like I am too easy going for that... :P

but i see your point

BESW

If you make it your responsibility, as the GM, to solve their problems for them and punish them if they misbehave... that's not going to be healthy for you or them.

MC_Hambone

admittedly we have only been such a large gropu for like 2-3 sessions and only 1 of those was combat heavy

BESW

Instead, recognise this for what it is: a group of friends having fun together. The GM and the players are just roles in the game.

Aaron

Gmornin

André

You guys are 9 right? Making schedule is hard enough for everyone. Just remind what they are there for, everyone is adult and will understand I think

MC_Hambone

12:35

this is more of a how do I stop the trouble before it begins

BESW

If there's a problem with the "having fun" bit, you need to get together as participants in the activity and figure it out.

Rule One: Everyone must be safe.
Rule Two: Everyone must be happy.
Rule Three: Now you may start worrying about playing RPGs.

MC_Hambone

@André yes, if everyone makes it there are 9 players, then me as GM. most likely i GM for 7

as my 2 leaders have rough life schedules that prevent them from making most games

André

Keep talking about GMing :D

I will start a D&D 3.5 game soon

Joshua Aslan Smith

@mc_hambone local signal dampners/jammers are totally a thing

BESW

@MC_Hambone Have a "coordination" session where you address these things and come up with a social contract. For example, if people can't control their computer usage, computers are no longer viable and other means must be found for tracking your characters.

MC_Hambone

12:37

...in fact one of our leaders, the shaman, notified me he was going to be gone for a long absence so he railroaded himself into a situation wher ehe is now sitting in a jail cell...

BESW

(If manuals are electronic, perhaps have a Computer Station nearby for when reference is truly needed.)

Joshua Aslan Smith

I do agree that ideally you could just present it as an issue and people would care enough to fix it

MC_Hambone

that is something that might actually be possible, depending on if our normal room is available

BESW

If they trust someone in the group to make choices that maximise fun, institute this rule: if there's debate about a ruling during the session, the agreed-upon person adjudicates it. That person's decision is binding in this one instance but doesn't set any precedent, and the actual rule will be looked up at the end of the session.

BOOM. Rules lawyering and extended mid-combat handbook delves defeated.

MC_Hambone

ughhh that reminds me, i gotta appoint a new rules checker

my current guy that handled that is the player that just got a work promotion and will be scarce heading forward

BESW

12:40

A general rule at my table is that if your character uses a rule regularly, you need to be an expert on it.

8

(If you make a grab character, it's your responsibility to know how grab works.)

Joshua Aslan Smith

absolute truth

MC_Hambone

i do like that

Joshua Aslan Smith

also if your character uses a very edge rule you shoudl talk to the Gm about it ahead of time

BESW

The GM doesn't need to be the rules expert. It just has to be someone everyone trusts.

Heck, you can even delegate monster-making!

Joshua Aslan Smith

case in point Fighter (knights) having their punishment mechanic being an opportunity action

I always go over that with GMs ahead of time so they understand that 1 its not a normal opportunity attack (I still get 1 of those) and it can trigger once a turn, not once a round

BESW

12:42

"Hey, Ryan, I need a level 2 solo for next week. He's a minotaur with a giant hammer and I'd like him to be able to knock people around and charge them."

MC_Hambone

i gotta say i think it will come donw to me to be the rules lawyer... from what i can tell no one else has the cajones

BESW

@MC_Hambone You might want to identify a protégé.

Joshua Aslan Smith

does anyone have insider access?

or a published rules compendium?

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith I can poke the published Compendium. What's up?

Joshua Aslan Smith

No i was asking for Mc_hambone

MC_Hambone

12:44

@JoshuaAslanSmith DDI, yes, me... Physical RC, no

BESW

Ah, gotcha.

MC_Hambone

i do have the pdf of the RC tho

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone feel like sharing your DDI login creds with them?

MC_Hambone

not any of the regulars XD

Joshua Aslan Smith

sadness

MC_Hambone

12:45

5 of them i barely know as I only met them this semester

BESW

One thing I really liked about Fate, going from 4e, was that each player was able to define the level of rule complexity he wanted his character to have, without unbalancing the party.

MC_Hambone

ther eis 1 but he already gave up on being a GM once, so i doubt he would want to be a rules lawyer

Joshua Aslan Smith

Did he give up in frustration or just wanted to take a break?

an experienced gm can be the best rules lawyer

I rules lawyer out the wazoo whenever I can in 4e

MC_Hambone

gave up in frustration, like me he tried to learn to GM with out ever being a player

Joshua Aslan Smith

ouch yeah thats never a good idea

BESW

12:47

Hey!

MC_Hambone

we actually talked recently and he has no interest in learning GM stuff even after 7 months of playing

BESW

That's me all over.

MC_Hambone

thats actually why i play 4e

André

Any tips to give new players the feeling of agency when they don't know what they can do with their characters?

MC_Hambone

when i got started my one buddy gave me his set of 4e and 3.5 books and 4e seemed less complicated

BESW

12:48

My first experience with any RPG was having a friend rope me into GMing after he heard me declaim a passage from Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.

@André In terms of building the characters, or running them?

MC_Hambone

hahah brilliant!

André

Running them @BESW

Joshua Aslan Smith

with 4e thats why I dont gm much anymore player investment never seems to match mine as a GM vs. FATE or Dungeonworld where it seems more equal for casual players. I tried to run a dark sun campaign and got super excited about the world, the differences, and dived in and none of the players really did. Nobody understands the amount of effort it takes to make a scratch adventure with encounters in 4e.

BESW

@MC_Hambone I took the D&D 3.0 manuals home over winter break and got handed the 3.5 manuals when I returned. [face/palm]

@André Which system?

André

D&D 3.5

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:49

@André we don't always seem eye to eye but do you mean story agency or crunch agency?

MC_Hambone

@BESW that's just... wow... just wow

BESW

The Tale of The Dwarven Cleric, or I Poke Him: 101 Stupid RP Tricks, Volume One.

Dec 26 '12 at 12:06, 7 minutes total – 36 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Jun 25 '13 at 19:03 by BESW

André

Usually what happens they fumble around and ask "what should I do". When they are presented with open choice questions or combat choices.

BESW

@André There are a lot of ways to address this...

One is to start them with scenarios that have clear either-or choices and slowly expand the scope.

André

I wish they have move sense of "I'm in control" opposing as in "I'm just repeating what the GM is telling me to do"

BESW

12:51

Another is to run a game like Roll for Shoes first.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@André The two are related but should be approached differently. Have your players sat down and decided on what their characters motivations are?

André

Not yet. I didn't started even building their characters. But that is a common problem I wish to address

MC_Hambone

@André i deal with that all the time, my best response has been "what would you do if you were [insert loose description of their characters persona here]?"

André

@MC_Hambone, sounds simple, I will try that. Also @BESW I will keep that in mind too. I suppose there is a learning curve :)

BESW

This might be useful:

22

Q: Helping a player who states "I have very little imagination" enjoy the game more?

I have a friend in a couple of my role-playing groups who just isn't enjoying the games very much. (We are currently running Exodus in one campaign and an D&D retro clone in the other.) This player is in their late 20s and started playing RPGs about a year ago. They play other card and board game...

new-players social players

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:54

for me, when it comes to story, making choices are easy when I make them in character because as part of making a character (background in creative writing) I always write up motivations, goals, impulses, and flaws (character not mechanical)

BESW

13

Q: Introducing System Mechanics to new players

Context Hello, I'm assembling a DnD/Pathfinder group, and all the players are new to tabletop rpg. All they know is rpg is about storytelling, dice rolling [ and macabre rituals <- just kidding, ;) ] The thing is, I, as DM, find the D20 combat system pretty rich/interesting. I'm reading it all ...

system-agnostic new-players

Joshua Aslan Smith

its about laying a foundation for the character

MC_Hambone

second that ^

BESW

7

Q: How do I get my players to make their own decisions?

I'm GMing a Dungeon World campaign with players completely new to tabletop RPGs. Every time I present them with a situation and ask them what they do next, none of them ever arrive at a conclusion, and I end up railroading them by suggesting what they do next. How can I stop this from happening? ...

gm-techniques new-players dungeon-world

André

cool @BESW

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:55

be wary players will try to avoid this sort of backstory creation because they think of it as work (vs play) and also because they may have preconceptions about the PnP genre, aka they should all just play murder-hobos without personality

BESW

There are questions on the site about character-creation methods which incorporate this kind of concept, if you'd like me to dig those up too.

Zachiel

tl;dr

Joshua Aslan Smith

hahaha

André

Well, if you don't mind @BESW :D

Zachiel

I think I have some time management issues. I had 3 hours to get things done this morning and I spent them all reading the backlog here and reading old OotS comics.

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:57

@André making a session zero to sort of fish out personality traits is also something that can be done like in FATE when everyone does character creation together

MC_Hambone

some motivation i have used to get players to write backstory is giving bonus starting gold/magic items/potions/etc for finishing and turning in a well written backstory

André

I don't know FATE :'(

BESW

11

Q: What systems use interesting questions to inspire character backgrounds?

In another question, it was suggested that the game "Dread" has a number of questions to make players really consider their character's backstory and personality. However, I'm planning to run a non-horror game (my group has decided we don't like horror). What other systems have similar thought-pr...

game-recommendation character-creation background

@André My answer in the thread I just linked explains Fate's PC creation process divorced from its mechanics.

MC_Hambone

my general rule was 50-100g per 4-5 sentence paragraph in the back story up to 10 paragraphs long (after that there are no bonuses, but i did encourage to write as much as comes naturally)

BESW

15

A: What systems use interesting questions to inspire character backgrounds?

The FATE system (I'm most familiar with the Dresden Files RPG which uses it) has this as a major part of character creation. In DFRPG we answer (in collaboration with the other players and the GM) the following questions are part of character creation: Background: Where did you come from? (PC's...

Zachiel

12:59

@André fate-srd.com

Metool

@Aaron Fearing things, the character.

André

I played manly AD&D 2nd, 3e, 3.5e and some storyteller (vampire and werewolf)

BESW

This is kinda cool, too:

10

Q: How can I introduce Life Paths to character generation?

The first time I played* Traveller, I found myself blown away by the detailed character creation, featuring year by year (4 year chunks actually) break down of how your character got where they are today. Finally you see how to tie major life events together, with a mechanical reward for this on ...

system-agnostic character-creation design life-paths

Zachiel

@André BESW might have some handy links to a recap of what Fate is about.

André

I will bookmark them all, thanks

Aaron

13:00

@Metool What do you mean?

BESW

What kind of game is Fate?

Jul 24 '13 at 7:43, 22 minutes total – 43 messages, 5 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Aug 26 '13 at 15:00 by BESW

MC_Hambone

@André do you mean Vampire the Masquerade for the vampire/werewolf game?

André

@MC_Hambone yeah

MC_Hambone

i have heard positive things about that

André

uh, we call the d10 system from whitewolf as "storyteller" here

it is fun alright @MC_Hambone :)

Zachiel

13:02

@André It's its intended name, but often gets confused with being a system for storytelling/narrativism

BESW

More on life paths:

6

Q: How does the GM effectively help players find Traits?

I've encountered a problem in Burning Wheel in the past, and I'm looking for a better way to address it in the future. The default Traits List in the Burning Wheel Gold rulebook (p310-355) contains, by my count, 628 traits. I've probably miscounted, but the point is, it's a lot, and it's very dif...

gm-techniques burning-wheel

André

Maybe because it's the different language then @Zachiel :-)

saying "storyteller" don't remind of the storyteller action

MC_Hambone

I knew a person who was running it but she is a very restrictive GM who kinda pideon holes characters eg "Every needs to be lawful good, no one may overlap roles, you can only choose x, y, z classes and x,y,z races"

BESW

And while it hasn't gotten much love (I should put a bounty on it, maybe?)...

10

Q: What's a good fast-combat system that scales to 6-10 players?

I've been running Pathfinder and D&D 4e games for my friends for a while now. We treat them more as social gatherings where a game happens. (Sometimes. :P ) Friends drop in and out on a weekly basis, so I don't have an established campaign. Lately, gatherings have become more popular among our...

game-recommendation

MC_Hambone

for Vampire the Masquerade she made everyone play vampires with a bunch of restrictions and I wanted to play a werewolf, so i wasnt allowed to play XD

BESW

13:04

Okay, I'm done with the links until someone asks for something new.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW what this needs is a boardgame with roleplay elements not a pnp rpg

MC_Hambone

well... chose not to because i dont wanna be a vampire

BESW

[gasps for breath]

@JoshuaAslanSmith Munchkin, maybe.

Joshua Aslan Smith

5-10 player game? BAM!

amazon.com/Indie-Boards-Cards-RES2IBC-Resistance/dp/B008A2BA8G/…

Munchkin can get too bogged down in rules minutae too or suffer the same RPG problems as turns taking too long etc.

MC_Hambone

it's weird, i dont like the idea of playing a long running "board game" but I spend lots of time making my own 2.5D modular dungeon tiles for 4e miniature play... I think there is something wrong with my brain...

BESW

13:07

The upcoming DFRPG release for Fate Accelerated is billed for 5 to 40 players. I'm pretty sure this is because it's got LARP rules attached.

MC_Hambone

40?!

Joshua Aslan Smith

@mc_hambone you just need to play the right long running boardgames

BESW

@MC_Hambone Live-Action Role-Playing groups can get very big.

Joshua Aslan Smith

amazon.com/Descent-Journeys-Dark-Second-Edition/dp/1616611898

André

I have to pretend I'm working, thanks all, will be back :)

MC_Hambone

13:08

my god if i knew 1 person in my town that was willing to LARP i'd bet the farm they were the only ones

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone descent is basically 4e the boardgame

which is better than it sounds

also all of the miniatures and map pieces could be used with a 4e game if you were so inclined

MC_Hambone

it does basically sound like an official D&D board game

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone I like it because playing the overlord (bad guy) is very different from being a GM. I always get to wear the antagonist hat and I dont need to worry about people's feelings, their characters lives etc.

its 4 v 1 design means that Im in it to win it

MC_Hambone

youtube.com/user/TheDMGinfo and youtube.com/user/theDMsCraft are the 2 youtube channels i watch to learn techniques to build D&D set pieces on the cheap

it's amaxing what you can build with cardboard and popsicle sticks

@JoshuaAslanSmith who says I as a GM worry about my players lives? MUAHAHAHAHA

Joshua Aslan Smith

pink hard insulation foam is super doable for that kind of thing

Metool

13:13

@Aaron Locking creatures down with fear effects.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone I know but in good faith you can't be an antagonist GM all of the time

Metool

Time for work!

Joshua Aslan Smith

then you become killer gm

MC_Hambone

thats true, I actually have fun improving as NPCs that arent always out to murder the party

Joshua Aslan Smith

obviously if players make stupid mistakes then the nature of their actions should lead to whatever it leads to

MC_Hambone

13:14

@Metool have fun!

Aaron

@Metool Hmm. Sounds like a difficult build. I will start that once I have finished the pistolero build I started.

Joshua Aslan Smith

someone tries to recklessly jump between rooftops and falls 3 stories (onto cobblestones) dead

they start a combat with the city militia

(dead)

MC_Hambone

where you here when i related the story of my player that bumrushed a zombie infested police station wearing shorts during All Flesh Must be Eaten?

Joshua Aslan Smith

I have no idea what that is but I assume its a sorta hardcore zombie RPG

and that such an action was death incarnate

MC_Hambone

hardcore is debateable but Zombie RPG is spot on

and yea he got grabbed by a lurker and had his ankle chewed on

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:16

hardcore is a loose term since it can mean both punishing and gritty

Trajan

@Aaron [grin] Vow of Poverty, any class

MC_Hambone

i gave him the option before resolving his descision to say he was really wearing jeans and boots like everyone else, but he stuck to his shorts and sneakers

Aaron

@Trajan Vow of Poverty, Gunslinger XD

worst class ever. lol

Trajan

@Aaron yeah good luck with that

MC_Hambone

so yeah ankle got all chewed up and then the party had to amputate his leg

Aaron

13:18

@Trajan It would be impossible I think. Vow of poverty means you can't take treasure and stuff right?

Trajan

@Aaron And no weapon. Even a sword might be too much, so a gun...

BESW

tabbed out, ping me if something comes up.

Aaron

@Trajan They can't have weapons?

Or they can't buy their own?

Trajan

@Aaron They can't accept gift either. More than 50gp.

Aaron

@Trajan They can have 1 item of value though.

Does ammo count as part of that or would it count as a separate item?

Trajan

13:21

In pathfinder, yes.

Aaron

@Trajan I am doing pathfinder builds.

Trajan

DD3.5 goes "You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick."

I think gun ammunition is rare enough to be considered as a separate and valuable item. I never read much about gunslinger nor the official pathfinder background, though.

MC_Hambone

is this Vow of Poverty a house rule for difficulty or is it like a legit character option?

Trajan

@MC_Hambone In DD3.5 it's a feat, so you have to pay for it.

it tries to compensate not having any item at all with quite impressive bonus

MC_Hambone

odd how you have to "buy" something that disallows purchasing things ;)

Trajan

13:25

the internets are quite divided about VoP being a valid character option or not

Joshua Aslan Smith

Its a RAW option its just suboptimal, people think its broken but its not

MC_Hambone

but it definitely fits in with my possible creepy ass druid that i may play in a 3.5 game... gonna try to get him as close to the 4e Swarm Druid as I can because i feel like its super creepy to shapeshift into a pile of bugs

Joshua Aslan Smith

we've had discussions about it, its shown as an example of confirmation bias where "on paper" or up-front it looks terribly broken but if you do all the statistical math comparing it to other options its not as good

@MC_Hambone yep that sounds creep

MC_Hambone

my favorite descriptor of him is "If you catch a glimpse of him out of the corner of your eye you might think he has bugs crawling around under his skin"

Trajan

narratively speaking I think it's a cool option

MC_Hambone

13:30

yea lucky for me the 3.5 stuff will only last a few months during summer break, so I have no intentions of min maxing my character at all

Phil

What's the deal if someone edits another person's answer for 'factual errors'?

MC_Hambone

VoP seems like something I should really look at...

Phil

2

A: Gain the Enchantment Property from Both Implements and Weapons?

Unless a power says otherwise you cannot gain the benefit of more than one weapon or implement when using a power. However, you can hold two one-handed weapons or implements and gain the benefits not related to attacks. For example: A Wizard could use a Wand in both of his hands, and gain a da...

Look at the last edit on that post

Does it seem reasonable for them to make that many changes to the answer?

Trajan

I don't think so

Phil

That's what I think - they're effectively completely changing a large part of the substance of the answer

Trajan

13:32

Especially after the anwer have been accepted

Phil

how best to proceed? Roll back and comment that if they disagree then write their own answer?

Trajan

if you're unsure, ask opinions on the meta

MC_Hambone

yea that seems over kill.... i dont feel like scrolling up in chat to find the answer I was given, but editing other's posts is supposed to be limited to simple corrections, if it's something major i was informed you should comment and ask the poster to edit it

in this case i think answering on their own would have been best, even if it is basically saying the same thing

Trajan

Maybe the editor didn't make his own answer because this one was already accepted (maybe a bit too early)

MC_Hambone

maybe

this might have some related options meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/3001/…

Trajan

13:36

(not that it would be a good reason)

Phil

0

Q: Enchantment Property Spell edit concern

This answer was recently edited, by another user. I am concerned with the edit for a number of reasons, but primarily it is the fact that they have changed a substantial portion of the substance of the answer after that answer has been accepted. Is this a reasonable concern? If so, what is the m...

discussion editing accepted-answer

There you go

Opinion away :o)

BESW

@Trajan One free re-roll is awarded.

Trajan

@MC_Hambone is that what you say in US for bon appétit?

@BESW YAY! Though I'd be happy with a simple "roll".

BESW

@Trajan Sorry, I don't have a license to serve food.

@Trajan No, it's more of a generic "goodbye."

It's basically "have a nice day."

Joshua Aslan Smith

@mc_hambone also try a boggle timer for turn limits, nobody's turn should take forever in 4e

Trajan

13:45

@BESW I see, thanks for the clarification.

MC_Hambone

@Trajan in that particular instance "have a good one" has a double meaning. Usually it just means "have a good day" or a generica goodbye... but since you were going for food I was also wishing you a merry dining experience :D

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh man

The Oracle

0

Q: Enchantment Property Spell edit concern

This answer was recently edited, by another user. I am concerned with the edit for a number of reasons, but primarily it is the fact that they have changed a substantial portion of the substance of the answer after that answer has been accepted. Is this a reasonable concern? If so, what is the m...

discussion editing accepted-answer

BESW

@Trajan Phrase and idiom is hard in any language, and English is especially challenging for a variety of reasons.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I love when I say you too in response to have a good one

its a ridiculous reflex

MC_Hambone

13:47

@JoshuaAslanSmith an actual timer would be good, I have voiced the rule of roughly 30 seconds to start explaining their actions on their turn

if they are still stammering and combing through moves after 30seconds i skip them and allow them to jump in when they know what they want to do

with 9 people not knowing what to do on your turn is pretty much unacceptable unless you are questioning the move effects

BESW

Many otherwise well-educated English speakers have no idea what their idioms and phrases actually mean.

MC_Hambone

@BESW our language is so laden with idoms it's almost impossible to learn the etymology for them all

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone yep forced delay is what I was going to say if they fail

MC_Hambone

like saying "my dogs are barking" for sore feet after standing all day.... how the heck did that come to be a thing?

BESW

Thing about 4e turns is, because there's so much tactical board-control available, sometimes the turn just before yours totally changes the landscape--literally.

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:50

@BESW etymology is no longer a part of english, literature, and history studies

MC_Hambone

that is true, and i am kinda loose on the hard 30 seconds thing

@JoshuaAslanSmith and that is a sad thing

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm not even talking about the origin of the phrases, just what they mean.

@MC_Hambone One moment, I'll grab my dictionary of idioms.

MC_Hambone

but as far as a changed landscape in 4e, if would allow the players more time if they mentioned that what they wanted to do was just messed up by previous truns

Joshua Aslan Smith

@BESW which I can respect but yeah you should be planning for multiple eventualities 4e is chess cubed. Be Batman and plan ahead.

Trajan

@BESW US idioms must be especially hard, given the size of the country. Even in France we have lots of idioms and acents

Joshua Aslan Smith

13:52

@BESW Yeah I get what you are saying but understanding orgins also helps to understand phrases and idioms.

Trajan

The most famous being the northern "pain au chocolat" vs the southern "chocolatine"

MC_Hambone

which they usually do when i tell them to go "Oh my turn?... well i was going to do a,b,c. but bobby messed that up, now what can i do in this situation" is something i have heard and then the table kinda works as a team to cobble together the broken dreams of that players intended move

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone I know I wasn't really taught it in school I just read a lot of fantasy & sci-fi that had me reaching for a dictionary, watched a lot of documentary television (history channel, PBS) and my mother was an art teacher so I got a classical education in everything but civics as a by-product

MC_Hambone

lucky! civics is boring anyway

i am actually back in university trying to get my Fine Arts degree specializing in illustration

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone at face value, but I find civics extremely intersting. understanding politics, economics, and government is understanding 1. how the world works and 2. how to effect change.

MC_Hambone

13:54

wanna draw me some comic books! :D

BESW

Bah, can't find it right now. A quick Google tells me it's Cockney rhyming slang ("dog's meat -> feet") but most idioms attributed to rhyming slang are inaccurate folk etymologies.

I did track down my dictionary of phrase and fable but it was unhelpful.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@MC_Hambone 2nd undergrad or just sorta side studies or what?

MC_Hambone

I am taking a Poli Sci course this semester that is actually fairly interesting, I can see the importance of civics for sure, but I still find it less interesting to study than more creative things like art and music, but that's just my personality

nope first under grad, dropped out my first time around...

BESW

@Trajan We have a lot of folk etymologies that make it even worse!

MC_Hambone

worked a dead end job for a few years, quit when the owners changed over, found out that the job market is worse than i thought so I went back to school

BESW

13:58

Like the claim that "dead ringer," "graveyard shift," and "saved by the bell" come from the 1500s practice of tying a bell to your finger when you were buried in case you were alive.

MC_Hambone

I always thought Saved by the bell was coined by Zach Morris ;)

The Tale of The Dwarven Cleric, or I Poke Him: 101 Stupid RP Tricks, Volume One.

What kind of game is Fate?

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