@Lord_Gareth Let's do this!

@Lord_Gareth That is a thing! And it is cheese.

Yes, Norin rocks

@AlexP You spelled it 'cheese', but it's pronounced 'the most hilarious shit ever'

I pulled that on my local meta and no one was expecting it.

The looks on their faces when they realized what was happening?

Priceless

It's Magic. "Cheese" is, like, the point of the game.

I'm not sure when the last time I've actually played a fair card was, not counting Limited.

I guess Detention Sphere is fair?

compared to what ?

My benchmark for unfair is Gifts Ungiven.

@Trajan You know they published a serious version of this?

Barren Glory

Magic, to me, is about playing all of the unfair cards.

@Lord_Gareth Yes, I see many [cough] combos with it online.

But not the stupidly broken ones.

@AlexP To me, magic is about winning with unexpected cards. I'm all for the rogue decks.

My Glissa the traitor EDH is full of common and junk rares

@Trajan Didn't they reprint this as a legit card?

But EDH is not Vintage

@Trajan I like this, too, but my version is more like "Ha, you forgot Witchbane Orb existed but it totally wipes half your deck."

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion Barren Glory, as Lord Gareth said

Oh... my chat didn't scroll down. Hah.

I was thinking nobody was responding after you posted the cheese.

@AlexP Yeah, I'm kind of like that too. With slightly less "Gotcha !"

I try hard to be a pleasant winner.

So, the other reason I don't like EDH that much is: 1) I don't like free-for-all multiplayer, 2) I don't like silly complicated board states. A game that takes about 20 minutes is a virtue to me. (He said, hypocritically, remembering all the times he end-step Drownyarded someone.)

Yeah, U decks are not the fastest one.

@Trajan I gloat on the inside. :)

At lunch I won an EDH in 5 turn.

with Hatred on Glissa

(and demonic tutor on Hatred)

see, EDH can be fast.

And though I like FFA multiplayer politics, I only play Duel Commander

@Trajan It can be. Or you can play like my ex and just keep gaining life at people.

with these rules : duelcommander.com

Last time I truly played EDH it was pretty hair-tearing. It was a six-player game. Someone Mindslavered my wife, who was playing Omnath. She had a Kamahl on the board, and could generate enough mana to kill EVERYONE. But the Mindslaver player couldn't see it, so he just killed one person and then burned out a bunch of her stuff. And the game limped along for another 40 minutes. Board states, like I said. :/

Or my roomate, who made a deck he calls "The Wallocaust", which is nothing but walls and life gaining and for the love of GOD why do I even play with him?

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion I had this silly Lorwyn T2 merfolk deck which mill the graveyard while gaining life

I managed to survive a 5-player FFA with it.

@AlexP I mindslave a lot better :)

My preference is Star and 2HG multiplayer.

my regular opponent plays Saffi of Teysa, both heavily rely on sacrifice

Every Mindslaver I land is pure cookie

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion I played a deck like that when I was a kid, with an enchantment that allow walls to attack. Youth....

@AlexP Star is when you're allied with your neighbours and try to win against those in front of you ?

@Trajan Yeah, you win by eliminating 2 opponents facing you. But "allied" is a stretch. :)

we call it pentacle

well you're supposed to not actively kill each other. It's as far as allied go in mtg :P

Yeah.

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion In case you'd want to learn about the EDH metagame, there's a site with all the EDH top8 : mtgtop8.com/format?f=EDH

Is the 3.5 feat monkey grip an official feat? I can't find an official version only homebrew

@Aaron I think it was in the Fighter book. But maybe that was only 3.0?

@Trajan Certainly going to take a look! See what life is like on the outside.

Jace! Blargh!

I hate milling. I hate milling with a passion I usually reserve for Apple products.

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion Jace isn't really milling. He's just winning.

He's why 70% of commanders have U in them.

@Trajan Seems pretty cheap, though.

and it's really sad.

@Aaron Complete Warrior has it

and it's different from the Sword and Fist 3.0 version

mana-wise ? yeah. Cause he's balanced for a regular format. In EDH he's way over the top

(not speaking about the divining top, here)

@Trajan WotC usually bans cards depending on format. Why isn't Jace banned on EDH?

@Trajan Especially since the format is supposed to avoid the power-players.

@Zachiel WotC doesn't control the ban list of EDH.

on the contrary, True-Name nemesis is balanced for multiplayer FFA but wotc released a card legit in vintage and absolutely game breaking

@Zachiel what Prof said, and Jace is not indestructible. The problem comes from the 50 counterspells that go with him. So will you ban counterspelling ? No...

But sometimes the comitee bans a powerfull U commander, so the non-U become a bit more playable

(4 out of the 6 banned commanders)

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion I guess someone does

@Zachiel Right, the "committee," and I don't always agree with their decisions.

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion do you have an example in mind ?

@Trajan There used to be a few! I haven't looked in a long while.

And I can't look from work. : /

But if Jace isn't banned, then that's a decision I definitely don't support.

I don't disagree with your lack of support.

@ProfessorCaptainLokiCaprion You're talking about Mill Jace?

Jace the mind sculptor

@AlexP Yes. Though I thought they were all mill Jaces. I dunno, one Jace spoiled them all for me, because I hate milling.

Baby Jace mills too

@Trajan He's a pretty unfair card but I can't really get too crazy about banning him given that he's living in a format with, like, Jitte and Skullclamp and Demonic Tutor and Reanimate.

Or, you know, actual Brainstorm.

@AlexP I'm baffled by the omnipresence of Jace in the format. But be sure that almost every Jace player plays Brainstorm as well. I don't get there's so little UB commanders, with all the card advantage and tutor it allows

(except that most UB commanders mill and that's very ineffective in EDH)

I'm considering a Sharuum EDH, but I'm not done with Glissa the Traitor

For a more off-the-wall Esper thing: Sen Triplets. Unfortunately the mana rules in the format aren't kind to them, though.

They screw other blue decks pretty fiercely, though.

I tried a Sen Triplets deck, but I couldn't find a strategy without them

Fair enough.

I do keep thinking, "Maybe I'll make a Duel Commander deck. Esper or Bant." But I can't find any generals I really like. The closest are Sigarda and Grand Arbiter.

IS there a hand to hand fighter archetype? Or barbarian archetype? I am trying to build a bestial fighter 7 barbarian 8 half orc character.

@Aaron 3.5 again ?

@Trajan pathfinder

I only was looking in 3.5 cause I thought monkey grip came from 3.5

I found a barb archetype brutal pugilist

what are you looking for ? damage, CA, weird stuff, rp ?

Brute force hand to hand combatant.

The kind of character who will scream out an intimidating yell and charge into battle wearing nothing but a loincloth and using nothing but his hands.

definitely a barbarian.

Savage Barbarian could fit : d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/…

you may consider playing a Tiefling, if allowed, to have natural weapons

@Trajan I am giving him clawed gloved. I am building Anti characters of my group

One of them is a barbarian figher half orc who tried to look and act as human as possible

so I am building a half orc that is bestial.

Classic never goes out of style

@Lord_Gareth rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/33541/…

Ugh, it's done

Is there a feat that allows you to charge a person into a wall and deal damage?

@Aaron As I already told you (but you probably missed it, or I misunderstood your sentence), Monkey Grip does exist in 3.5e

@Zachiel Oh All I could find was homebrew stuff sorry I must have missed your comment.

Just so you don't need to search it in the backlog: it's in Complete Warrior.

@Zachiel Ah. I couldn't find it online. I think I have that 3.5 book so.

@Aaron Bull Rush rules explicitely disallow pushing characters into solid objects

d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Bull-Rush

that comment needed an "except" somewhere...

but maybe I'm missing some feat that overrides that

There some feats that allow to throw people onto other people, apparently

d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-ki-throw-combat

@Zachiel what was crystal keep ?

@Trajan a site that had organized lists of WotC material. They also had verbatim effects of spells, feats and so on, so they got a Cease and Desist from WotC. I still have the files and they're really useful as indexes. All feats, sorted both by name, by category, by bonus feats for each class, by utility field? Please, yes.

It's not a complete collection, tho'

@Trajan I think I might make a feat chain for slamming people into walls and dealing a decent amount of damage.

1st feat lets you slam a creature your size or smaller into a wall dealing 1d6 damage.

2nd lets you add your str bonus

3rd deals 1d6 per str mod

the 3rd is far too much.

I think the push / bull-rush maneuver already has some rules for slamming people into walls

I am adding bab reqs

no feat would allow your average high-level barbarian to deal +7d6 with only one feat

bab reqs or not

double str damage and maximize the d6?

look for combat conditions

like stunned

or shaken

d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Stunned

plus it adds interaction between NPCs, so this will appear more tactical than "HULK SMASH" 12D6 + 24

fireballs, OTOH...

fireballs don't get strength bonus, wuthout any metamagic they have a great potential of meh.

@Zachiel OTOH?

on the other hand

acronymfinder.com is my best friend on this english-slang-filled chat

Instant fav.

@Trajan I'd argue Str grows slower than Level/2 (without buffs, at least) but the approach is still wrong. There's a save half and a daily limit on fireball casts and it's AoE... it's hard to compare. I get to the point. I disagree with fighters dealing less damage "because magic is better".

@Zachiel this trope have been discussed over and over. 3.PF handles it very poorly, end of story.

that's why E6 exists

(Shadowrun 4E actually doesn't even try to handle it. A voodoo elf breaks the game in half at chargen)

time to go, see you later

@Trajan I'd expect people not to follow tropes that are nocive to their satisfaction with the game, when homebrewing. Unless, of course, Aaron wants his Warriors to be linear.

if this RPG was a boardgame, it would be carcassone. if this RPG was a piece of classical music, it would be ode to joy. if this RPG was a movie it would be die hard. etc.

While I think Fiasco is easier than Carcassonne, I could suggest you Roll for Shoes

There was some really simple RPG I tried a while back. It was spy-based, pretty much made for one shots. The agents were named after planets/gods and there were five types of agents.

To slightly set up complexity and offer some theme variation, Great Ork Gods is really fun if you're all into the idea.

realms.co.uk/the-agency

Wait, that's not it.

... but that looks cool.

[Bookmarks it]

For a serious game maybe Psi*Run (I don't know if it's available digitally) or Fiasco are better. What's a Roleplaying Game might be a good game to try, if only I could google it.

indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/… THIS one!

The group creates the mission together, a bit Fate-like.

The more complications the group adds to the mission, the more "fate point" like things they get during the course of it. If I'm recalling correctly. It was very fun.

this is all awesome, thanks folks. keep 'em coming if you think of anything more.

Or, of course, you could just use Fate: Accelerated!

And then plop in whatever setting you wanted.

How is music.SE chat empty. I would think that would be as full as this chat.

Ah

It isn't about music in general but playing music.

Ahoy.

@Metool Hello.

Hey

Some day I will perfect my passive-aggressive control deck.

It never stops you from doing something, unless that thing is dealing damage.

You can still attack, block, cast.... But damage doesn't result.

@BESW TurboFog?

Clerics.

It's a pure white, all cleric, all defense deck.... Until I hit endgame and play Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth and Pestilence.

By which time I and my creaturea are passively immune to Pestilence.

As a side effect of the Deck's survival mechanic.

Ah, yes, I remember now.

It's hard to perfect because I have some very stringent rules for its construction.

@tenpn I second the suggestions for Roll For Shoes or Fate Accelerated.

@tenpn Are you interested in particular setting/genre/style? The Apocalypse World games are pretty good without being too heavy. AW, Dungeon World, Monsterhearts, Sagas of the Icelanders. All available online.

I think he was interested in a one-shot game

Sagas and Monsterhearts are both good vehicles for a one-shot.

Ditto DW.

I agree with Monsterhearts or AW, but one issue is that in both of those there is overt sexual stuff which, depending on who is playing may or may not be an issue. DW has the benefit of not having that

But DW has overt Dungeons-&-Dragons stuff. >.>

The nice thing about Monsterhearts in particular is that you can point to a genre and say, "This is what this game is."

true - just thought I'd mention the sex move stuff though, as its an integral mechanic and not obvious from the setting fluff until you read the book

anyway nn

True, worth mentioning.

I'm really kinda taken with Lady Blackbird, but thanks for the extra suggestions.

Lady Blackbird is a good one to run. The nice thing about it is you can just give your new person a printout to take home.

(Or a PDF on their phone/tablet/whatever)

I want to make a Core version of Night Fears.

It was a great one shot.

But DFRPG isn't really a quick pick up system.

I'm reading Great Ork Gods, and it has the same problem I find in a lot of these 'silly one-shot' systems: it's too complicated.

I mean, I like it! But I can't see introducing it for a one off.

Of has the same problem.

*Og

Too many exceptions and fiddly bits.