TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:23

Whenever I see an SF&F ID question for "a really old book from the 90s," I weep a little.

Alex P

01:38

Oh, man. I had kinda high hopes for the Discovery Channel Klondike show (historical drama, not documentary) but then it totally went Pillars of the Earth on me.

BESW

01:49

Any sentence containing the phrase "high hopes for the Discovery Channel" will eventually be met with disappointment.

Alex P

They are not always terrible.

Just getting more terrible.

On account of that one TV person who is ruining all of the "educational" networks.

BESW

@AlexP Bear maulings are not always fatal, either.

Alex P

Meh, History Channel's Vikings was fine.

BESW

[shrug] Cable and I share pen pals, but rarely exchange correspondence directly.

Alex P

You're missing out on most of the good TV, then (I mean, unless you have a way of watching most of it online).

BESW

01:55

I'm usually a little behind, but a lot of shows get online airings a week or two later, and in the mean time there's YouTube clips, reviews, etc.

It means I'm pretty picky about what I follow, though.

BESW

02:59

So, I've got a "new" player coming over this weekend for Fate.

He played in a D&D 3.5 game I ran a few years ago, and has since been playing in someone else's 3.5 game.

So far as I can tell, 3.5 is the only RPG system he's had experience with, and he's happy with the idea of the setting. He likes playing elven wizards.

I think that he's going to be very happy with the more freeform and social-enabling mechanics of Fate, but I also suspect that he's going to want to stick with a D&D-like setting while escaping D&D-like narratives.

Anyone have experience with doing this?

Up to now, my Fate games have deliberately and drastically fled from D&D settings.

Magician

By "D&D-like setting", do you mean high fantasy?

Alex P

@Magician I assume kinda-kitchen-sinky high fantasy.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle ill take a look Ill probably build both and let him pick

@waxeagle a skald and a warpriest that is

Alex P

@BESW I haven't done it but I've read some AP like that. "Burning THAC0" is a long-running play-D&D-with-Burning-Wheel project by the game devs. The stories don't really end up being D&D-style very much, because of how the mechanics push different concerns and different outcomes.

BESW

I'm guessing he'll assume a setting with lots of races, high magic and low cleanliness, lots of violence-is-the-answer.

The campaign I ran him through fizzled and I might try reviving it in Fate...

And while lots of races and relatively high magic is fine by me, I don't want to fall into the kill-and-loot traps.

Magician

03:08

Isn't that exactly the D&D narrative, that you think he'd avoid?

Alex P

So, one thing I noticed from Burning THAC0: there's a tendency to bargain and debate a lot more since the mechanics support it well. Offer a chance to get into a throw-down drag-out talky-session with a demon and they might just take it.

BESW

I guess I'm just nervous he'll have a lot of trained expectations and habits.

I think he'll be happy to shed them, but I don't really expect him to do it on his own quickly.

Alex P

So, my own personal experience was that I was much more eager to shed expectations once I tried a few that resulted in more player/character empowerment.

E.g. once you see you can just say you are badass from the get-go, instead of trying to "earn it" in play. If it's that kind of game.

That may not be the best example.

BESW

Hmm.

Okay, so for our first game I want to run a quick one- or two-session story.

Alex P

Fate's the kind of game where you can push quite hard without getting screwed.

BESW

03:12

It'll give him a chance to explore the system without being too invested in "doing it right," and I want to take the opportunity to model the kind of game we can play.

Should I try something in a D&D-like setting, or go radically different?

Magician

Ask him, perhaps? Offer a couple of vague ideas you undoubtedly have.

BESW

Also, do you think FAE or Core would be better for the introduction?

Alex P

FAE doesn't have skills, right?

BESW

It uses "approaches."

Magician

Having zero experience with either still, I'd say Core. If the player could handle 3.5, he can handle Core just fine, and might miss having any crunch at all otherwise.

BESW

03:15

Fair enough.

Alex P

@Magician What Magician said. My first impulse would be Core.

BESW

He's not big on theorycrafting or anything like that. This is a guy who decides what he wants his character to look like and wear, then builds mechanics and backstory to justify it.

Alex P

So, for a one-shot: how long does Fate Core chargen take?

BESW

Depends on how much time you take on aspects. For a newcomer, I'd say twenty minutes to two hours.

Alex P

And compared to FAE?

Chargen taking more than an hour is rough.

For a short-form game especially.

(That's when you pull out pregens or 80%-pregens)

Magician

03:23

I'd wager the bulk of time here would be spent on wrapping one's head around the way characters are made at all.

BESW

@Magician Yes, this.

Trogdor and I have spent a lot of time trying to get aspects "just right," but if we don't worry about that too much...

Alex P

FAE just has the three aspects, right?

BESW

FAE has you start with three to five, and if you start with less than five you fill in the remainder during play.

Alex P

that sounds good

though you can retrofit that to Core

BESW

Yeah.

Alex P

03:33

I'd say if you want to play Core, you might as well teach Core.

BESW

yeah.

Alex P

Do you see yourself playing FAE a lot?

Shadowrun joke: "Plan A requires split-second timing, perfect coordination, flawless execution, and divine fortune. Plan B is indiscriminate violence."

Magician

@AlexP Maxim of a Successful Pirate number 6: " If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it."

BESW

@AlexP Trogdor prefers the greater mechanical complexity of Core, so no, not really.

Alex P

Then you have your answer: Core. :)

BESW

03:46

Guess so.

Alex P

Though your main question was more generally about not-quite-D&D-stories in D&D-like settings.

BESW

Someday when I have the right people I want to try a game where some characters use skills and others use approaches.

@AlexP I guess I'm just having trouble envisioning it.

Like, he's basically going to be able to define "elf" however he wants when he makes his character.

How much should I encourage or enforce the notion that our elves don't have to be D&D elves?

Magician

Do so by example. If your NPC dwarves are different, maybe your PC elves will be, too.

Alex P

Well, what do not-D&D elves look like? Beside Tolkien?

BESW

Child's Ballad elves are small, tricksy, violent immortals with alien values.

Dragons of the Cuyahoga elves are slender, ancient people suffering from cultural PTSD because of the destruction of their culture and homeland a thousand years ago.

Elfquest elves are telepathic hunter-gathers who ride wolves, and are decended from actual crashlanded aliens.

Alex P

03:57

Are those the kinds he'll care to play?

BESW

I think his main ideas about elves come from D&D and LotR.

Alex P

Well, you can emphasize the LOTR bits that Fate does better than D&D.

BESW

He's also a Japanophile, and I'm not sure how that'll influence our settings.

Alex P

Like give his elf an elf-y backstory that matters. Connections to people. Centuries-old vows.

BESW

Trogdor is too, though Trogdor's focused on historical and historical-fantasy Japan while Marc is more focused on contemporary anime fantasy.

Alex P

03:59

Hmm. He also digs wizards, right?

Mark, I mean.

BESW

Yeah, Marc waffles between wizard and ranger, but generally prefers wizard.

Alex P

Is there a Japanese fantasy wizard archetype that he likes that maybe D&D doesn't do well?

BESW

I dunno, I'm not really in touch with his anime side.

Alex P

Fate's a good opportunity to blend the ranger and wizard idea, for instance.

Without going "druid."

BESW

...My internet connection keeps soiling itself.

afk lunch.

Alex P

04:36

@BESW Here's a thought: start character creation by asking a question or two that prompt not-very-D&D-like answers.

BESW

Hmm, yes.

trogdor

06:07

@BESW that statement makes me think it would have been great for him to have been there for the Aeon Wave ending we had

@BESW yes, I do.

@BESW I am a Japanophile?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I do like historical/fantasy japan

but I have not thought of myself that way

then again, I read a lot of books about it, sooo

and if I am gonna talk about the subject I might as well own up to kinda liking this

►

though it is more for the ponyization of it than anything else

Problematic

06:33

@trogdor what... what did I just watch?

trogdor

lol

you tell me

seems like it was pretty obvious

XD

I realize that high pitched Japanese singing isn't the most palatable thing for everyone

BESW

@trogdor We could run it again.

trogdor

well

part of my point was that I handled it that way organically

but if that is what you want to do,...

Problematic

Whelp, the comments on this question are probably the funniest thing I've seen all night.

BESW

Could even hack it into a Shadowrun-like multiple-race-world.

@Problematic [snerk]

doppelgreener

07:13

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A͙̭͇̦̠̖ͧ̓̏̊ͤ͆ͤ̄̕͡L̞̥̹̮̭ͩ̃L̨̯̰̹̪̦̠̾̏ͫ͡ ̡̤̤̘͎͍̗͌͠Q̡̞͉̩̤̝̱̪̀͐͊̏̌ͬ̿́ͅU̢̦̖̗̩͓̍ͬ̃͂̉E̸̢̨̻̥͙̗͕̹ͥ̾͒͋̽̿̇S̷̛͚͕̹͔̯̭͇̝̝̉T̷̈́͛̿ͭ̒͛ͦͦ̎‌̰͈̣͡I̜͎̭ͪͥ̐ͩ͐͛O̢̱̖̗͖ͦͨ̓ͬ̆̂̀Nͮͫ̄ͦ͂̾̏ͮ̀҉̥̟̫̝͈͉͍S̠͙͉̭̩͕̯̘ͬͭ͗̅ͧ͊ͤ͝ ̅҉̢͕̮̦̰̜Ş̭̥̘̻͚̤͓̘͖ͧH̭̝̜̰̳͈̠̄̃̎͊͠Å̝͉̼̞͖̘͎͈̤̒̌͊ͤͮ̉̏ͯ͘L̳̻̗̜̱̖̰̓̇̋̎͂̒L͙̦̯̿͂ͨ̿̽̋̚̚ ̷̵̼̜̭͚̠̼͎ͦ̇̕B̡̞̞̱̆͐̔̈E̲͍͖͚ͩ̊̈́̕ ̰̮̜̩͓͓ͬ̒̌̈́Ã̢̼̻̟͖̮̯͗͋͊̒N̛̘̞̻͚͍̲̝̬̰̋̍̄͐̌͗̎̃͌S̥ͮ̏͆̏͒͂̄́̈́͢W̵̵̧͖̭̜̬̜ͮͫ͆̈ͥ̔ͧͥ͂Eͦ̉ͭ͗̉ͥ‌̛͖͕̻̩̘̖̓̏̇R̴ͦͩ̎͋ͪ͑̋ͦ͏̬̹̺̫͕͖̥ͅE̥̳͖̽̽D̺͎͉̰̘͙͙̦̘̄̅̆̀͡͠

M̸ͤ͒̍̌Ä̖̳̳͚̞̣̥́K̞̯͎̯͈̟ͮ͑̂̀ͫE̱̘̹͗̔̑͋̚ ͓S͍̍̀͘ỦͨȐͪ͛̐̒͆E͍͖̙̰̐ͣ̏̈́ͣ́ ̦̍̌͆̀ͫ͝T̳̗͍̻ͭͮͩ͘H̠͇͌ͅE̛͖͍̻ͧ͒ͤͤY̢̲͈̞̓͆͛̚ ̽͂̔̅̓͌͆҉̹̺͚̮͙̭ͅA͈̍ͧ̒ͭ̇R̾ͯ̄҉̭͉̦Ę͇ ̝͞T̹̱̙̜̯̫͂̔̾̋̄H͎͚͖̣E̫͚̠͍͇̲͑ ͏̝O̗̟͇͎̰̝͈̿͢Ṉ͔̤̗̽͊E̗̣̲̝̹͎ͥͣ̃͒̊S̲͚̟̤̓ͪ ͕͈̔Y̽̐̏ͮ͌O̻̝̮̳̗U̠̠͕ͩ̂̅ ͍̠͚̜͕W̖͆͂͒̐A̷͆̒ͭ͒N̶͓͖̥̰̦̩̦̒̌̀̾͋̽ͨT̸̑̀͑͋̈́ͧ̎ ̃ͮͮ̓͐ͣ̎҉̤͙T̺H̷̹̮͍̩̖E̹͔ͭ̂̾ͫ͛ ̓ͩ͆̾͂͆̚͠A͚̞͕̪̭ͤ͋͗ͬ̆̚N̘ͥ̆S̠̣̥͕̞͈̿ͯ͞W͇̭̲̮̗͕̏͌́͛̋̀E̶̙̙̥̖̖̫͈ͥͫ͊ͩ̋͛̐R̭̼̆ͭ͂̉ͅ ͔̰̤̐̾̄́ͯT̫͚͓̩̗͕͐ͦͥO̭ͨ͆͞

BESW

@trogdor Marc has said that he's more interested in a single long-running campaign than in a series of minicampaigns. How does this make you feel?

trogdor

well

this is fine with me

I like those kinds of campaigns, as long as he actually shows up long enough to finish it

BESW

Okay, I will think about things.

Marc will be available in early to mid afternoon; are you working on Saturday?

(My Ruhi got cancelled this week.)

trogdor

yeah

BESW

Aight, so probably I'll pick him up early and do some one-on-one with him or something before you're available.

trogdor

07:27

oh ok,... you scared me for a minute there

he is open STARTING early to mid afternoon

derp

better

BESW

Yeah, sorry.

trogdor

not your fault

above image is representation of my derp

not yours

BESW

Shopping time. ttfn

Inbar Rose

08:47

Good morning.

BESW

11:25

[wave]

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