TRPG General Chat

Phil

15:00

Opinions on this question...?

0

Q: Legend of the Five Rings Jiujitsu Alternate Rules

I love L5R. The setting is in depth and has just the right mix of different Asian cultures. I'm gearing up to play 4th edition and I'm excited to see what changes are in effect. The only problem with it is how they treat unarmed skills. First of all, Jiujitsu does not mean "The Way of Hands and ...

lisardggY

The OP wants to play an evil character, but D&D alignments are so simplistic that attempting to play someone realistically, nuancedly evil doesn't feel like Evil at all.

So there's evil and there Evil, with a capital E.

Phil

Too broad?

Primarily opinion based?

Ok?

Inbar Rose

He wants to stay his character - remain attached to the caravan and his friends, yet he wants to do evil things? I think this is not really a question for this site.

Phil

Sorry, I mean with reference to the Five Rings question

Inbar Rose

It is in my opinion akin to asking a question like "my character is Bob, he is a waiter at a diner - how can I make Bob more of a lawyer? - oh but Bob should still be a waiter at a diner"

lisardggY

15:08

I think it operates under the assumption that evil characters are categorically different than non-evil characters. That they should do... evil things on a regular basis to maintain their club membership.

...and I'm off.

See y'all later.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Dawn of the 2nd snowday

MadMAxJr

@Phil totally opinion based.

Aaron

Perfect example of an evil character who travels with good/neutral characters.

Richard from Looking for group

MadMAxJr

15:27

He's not evil, he's from a moral and ethical culture where such behavior is acceptable!

BESW

Except that in the 3.5 environment, evil isn't subjective.

Whether his culture accepts it or not is irrelephant in a universe where evil is not only detectable but measurable, can grant spells, create planes of existence, and serve as a defining quality for spell triggers.

Aaron

I view alignment in dnd and pathfinder as simple labels for use with spells and such. Play your character how you want to.

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

I always found the defintion of "Lawful" to be a little sketchy.

BESW

I always found the entire alignment system sketchier than a Titanic full of DiCaprios.

But it can't be ripped out of 3.5 without doing irreparable damage to the system's undercarriage, such that removing alignment would make it a distinctly different kind of system, so @Aaron's solution to ignore it except when the mechanics absolutely insist seems to be the best option.

Inbar Rose

One thing that upset me about alignment. (more than others) - Why devils are LE and demons are CE. It seems so arbitrary.

MadMAxJr

15:40

Hmm. I need a Paladin and a quick Detect Evil scan of wall street.

3

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

@InbarRose Wait, I thought it was the other way around...

Inbar Rose

Maybe it is...

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

Haha, who knows? It's arbitrary!

Inbar Rose

Which proves my point - arbitrary.

:)

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

Why are Demons and Devils even seperate things?

MadMAxJr

15:41

To sell more monster manuals.

Inbar Rose

There are even sub-groups of them.

And another kind as well...

MadMAxJr

Devil, Devils with hats subtype.

Inbar Rose

(I forgot a lot of that stuff since I strictly run my campaigns in a world I created which does not include many monsters)

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

Dragon Turtle!

Metool

@InbarRose Deal with a devil?

MadMAxJr

15:43

I always find amusement in reading 3rd party material that stats out monsters that clearly have no business having stats, like CR 50 creatures and whatnot.

I forget what it was called.. Golem made from the core of a neutron star.

Inbar Rose

...

If you can forge golems from the cores of neutron stars.... then.. well.... I guess to get to that point you must be pretty damn bored... so... I guess there is a reason.

Aaron

@InbarRose A very bored god.

Inbar Rose

Indeed.

MadMAxJr

Neutronium Golem. It's kind of a meme, but is printed in a 3rd party super-duper-epic-isnt-epic-enough supplement.

Inbar Rose

"What did you do last week?" "Oh, I created some planes, smote some evil doers, and made a golem out of the core of a neutron star, you?"

Aaron

15:45

Oh this random box needs a protector... What is the most outlandish thing I can make... Snaps fingers causing earthquake A neutron star core!

Inbar Rose

It's like mad-lib monsters.

HAHA

amazon.com/Monster-Mad-Libs-Roger-Price/dp/0843100583

MadMAxJr

Here we go.

Inbar Rose

haha, the Adventure Ideas is hilarious.

"They have mutated (into paragon pseudo-natural cogents and worse)"

MadMAxJr

I like how creating one is a DC 9721 check.

Makes the d20 almost irrelevant.

Inbar Rose

HP: 2216080

250d1000+1966080 [dafuq]

MadMAxJr

15:50

The book it's from has other creatures of similar power.

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

What the crap?

MadMAxJr

The fact this thing has /rules/ means the DM is just messing with you if it's on the table.

It's neutral but oh, by the way, there's a 600 mile aura of things being constantly on fire around it.

BESW

You know there's an official 3.5 monster with an ever-expanding aura of freezing doom which can encompass the entire plane, right?

MadMAxJr

@BESW Oh, that one is new to me!

I dunno. With that list of features on the Neutronium Golem, the fact it has low-light vision is kind of like the cup-holder of abilities.

Inbar Rose

Damage Reduction 1500/

wtf.

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

15:56

226 trillion tons.

Inbar Rose

That much mass in such a small place....

The gravity well alone is it's greatest weapon.

MadMAxJr

Oh and it moves 5 and a half billion feet per round. We're going to need a bigger battlemat.

Inbar Rose

I just.. I don't even...

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

So basically, it attacks by ramming into you... because several hundred trillion tons moving faster than the speed of sound will probably hurt.

Aaron

@MadMAxJr O.O

BESW

15:58

@MadMAxJr The Killing Frost of Ghulurak, DMG2 p115.

MadMAxJr

Paladin: Well gang, it's not evil, so not much I can do here! Its mere existence obliterates life around it, but it's not evil!

Slam attacks for a little shy of a quarter million damage each.

Metool

@MadMAxJr 77 million XP to create.

Wat.

BESW

If left unchecked, it can envelope an entire world with -40F cold (1d6 cold, 1d4 nonlethal per minute, no save), and everyone who takes the damage has to make a Will save each hour or be permanently dominated (no spell resistance) to obey Ghulurak, draw others into his control, and if he is destroyed they are compelled to re-summon him.

MadMAxJr

I get that the supplement this is from is meant to be above and beyond epic. But seriously those numbers render the physical act of rolling a d20 irrelevant. Either you have the sheer bonus to deal with it or you do not.

Well okay, at least that's just -40F, sounds like you might survive long enough to try to combat that.

BESW

When he's first summoned (before the zones expand), he's surrounded by ten miles of 10-20F cold, then one mile (expands 1 mile/week) of -20F weather, and then 1 mile (expands 1 mile/month after 100 years of being uninterrupted) of Killing Frost which dominates.

MadMAxJr

16:05

I can just /hear/ one of my players, "Well the Neutronium golem has a level adjustment listed. Can I play as one?"

BESW

Which means that he's also guarded by every creature within a 2-mile-diameter circle of him.

Once you get to him, though, he's just a statue: hardness 5, and 1.8k hit points.

MadMAxJr

What's the DC to fall under the will of Ghulurak?

BESW

25.

Aaron

What level are you supposed to be when fightin him?

BESW

Magic Events don't have CRs.

Aaron

16:08

@BESW oh

MadMAxJr

Dang. Because the no-spell-resistance means it would work on the neutronium golem. But his will saves are +163.

Aaron

@MadMAxJr It could just take ten lol

MadMAxJr

Also the entire forest would be on fire and crushed under gravity wells, and them bombarded with x-ray radiation

But it's okay the golem only has a reach of 10ft, totally balanced.

BESW

Welp, goodnight.

MadMAxJr

Some rough math here.. Basically the Neutronium Golem emits a death field as wide as Kansas as it passes. "Humble Quest Giver, how do I find this golem?" "Well, you could try following the trail of scorched black and cratered land where other nations used to be."

"And what is the reward for slaying the beast?" "Assuming this planet survives the death throes? The fact we'd still be alive."

Alex P

16:19

Well, the golem lives in space. There is nothing for him to set on fire there.

MadMAxJr

Valid point.

I'm just not sure what the value is in having something like that statted out.

It's always a fun conversation piece though.

Alex P

It does seem like roving stars make for some pretty crappy servants. Especially if you were trying to, like, preserve the galaxy or whatever.

I bet there's still some dumb way for a 30th-level wizard to murder it, if you put your mind to it.

But you shouldn't. Because it would be a waste of time.

MadMAxJr

I'm sure if we throw enough Tarasques into space toward it, something will happen. Maybe.

Alex P

I'm half-expecting the front of the book to have special rules for what actually happens when you travel at the speed of light.

MadMAxJr

Or perhaps defeat it with scientific proofs. It travels at the speed of light when many theories suggest we might only achieve near-speed-of-light, and cause it to disappear in a puff of logic.

Aaron

16:27

@MadMAxJr If you use that logic most monsters would puff.

MadMAxJr

Along with a chunk of the d20 rules framework as it screams "This is just a crude simulation"

Alex P

Maybe you could epic-sneak up on it and engage in a dialogue with its parasites, who live at a hyper-accelerated pace compared to you and maybe will give you sweet technology.

Dragon's Egg

Dragon's Egg is a hard science fiction novel written by Robert L. Forward and published in 1980. In the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that of Earth, and inhabited by cheela, intelligent creatures that have the volume of sesame seeds and live a million times faster than humans. Most of the novel, from May to June 2050, chronicles the cheela civilization beginning with its discovery of agriculture to its first face-to-face contact with humans, who are observing the star from orbit. The novel is regarded as a landmark in hard science fi...

MadMAxJr

Agriculture. On a neutron star. "Fire crop is looking mighty good this year."

Inbar Rose

You could just use a wish-spell.

Aaron

my boss is talking about a atv he has that goes 80.

I think he said it's a 4 wheeler.

O.O at what speed would you just fly off a four wheeler?

Alex P

17:12

Time for your weekly Story Games Newsletter linkdump roundup.

(Wherein I find the ones I think this community will care about most and post them.)

Ryan Macklin rewrites Fate Boosts.

4

Metool

@Aaron It's not about the speed, but the changes in speed.

Alex P

DW playbook: the Sorcerer, with emotional magic.

MadMAxJr

I've yet to look at Dungeon World. I hear good things.

Zachiel

17:40

@MadMAxJr Every goblin die makes the DC irrelevant. You need to be able to succeed with a 1 if you really want to try it. Which is why I'll have problems casting spells with use magic device until I buy that epic +8 to charisma item.

Metool

@Zachiel ???

MadMAxJr

Goblin die? What?

Alex P

@MadMAxJr It's from this article by @Magician.

@Zachiel That's kind of a ridiculous and extreme interpretation of "goblin dice." "There is a risk of failure when you roll the dice" is not really "goblin dice."

MadMAxJr

The point I was trying to make is that with a DC of 9721, a d20 barely impacts the range of a target that large. It is far more likely that you have the bonus to pass it or not, regardless of the d20.

Zachiel

@AlexP I didn't really want to focus on the risk of failure, I wanted to focus on the "you have only one opportunity to pass the DC", i.e. where Magician's article aims at.

Alex P

17:56

I find it hilarious how people make level 10,000 crap for D&D when the game starts to lose its wheels around, like, level 10.

4

Zachiel

@MadMAxJr Since in D&D most bonuses are small and to get such a large number you'd need a large number of different bonuses (or a high rank, or an infinite combo) I feel you might have enough bonus to pass it on a good roll and to fail on a bad one quite easily

Metool

0

Q: Witch/Warlock? Is there a difference?

I am looking to play a Witch in Pathfinder, but I want to play a Male witch. Do I still have to call him a witch or can I call him a Warlock? I know it may be all semantics but I just think of a Witch as being a female term. I am not sexist in any way, but just about every every witch in modern c...

pathfinder

I want to both flag and answer this.

Phil

Why both?

Metool

I don't know.

MadMAxJr

I stuck a comment on that one.

Phil

18:08

@Metool I would say don't answer if you feel it needs a flag. Otherwise it sends out mixed, confusing signals

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

"Here's the answer, but DON'T ASK THIS!"

Phil

exactly

Metool

Zachiel, if you could change your references to the base class to be Witch with a capital W, that would be wonderful.

Also, you have a typo, @Zachiel

Zachiel

@Metool witch typo? XD

BTW, I don't think it needs a flag.

Metool

18:28

> member for today

Well, that's a thing.

MadMAxJr

Jeez. Still getting rep pings for ancient questions.

Aaron

19:58

I did not know we had a crossgender tag until now.

AndrewK

20:39

I'm not clear on why someone would want to call their male witch a warlock in the first place.

But I'm not about to go questioning someone's question in the comments.

MadMAxJr

There is some basis for male practitioners of witchcraft being called warlocks. However in purely game terms, a Witch is a Witch.

Professor Captain Loki Caprion

Build a bridge out of him!

MadMAxJr

If they want to use an alias for that character being a Warlock instead of a Witch, that is up to the host of that game. I don't think most tables would have a problem with it.

AndrewK

Yeah, but... why would someone want to do that? xD

I'm genuinely puzzled. It seems to me that you're giving up a desirable - simplicity - so that you can gain an undesirable - meaningless gender differentiation. Which leads me to believe it must not be meaningless in his book.

Aaron

I just read pun pun.

MadMAxJr

20:52

Next time I get a character sheet, I'm just going to put 'Wizard' in all fields.

It's magic, I don't have to explain that.

AndrewK

I think that would actually be totally legit for a Belgariad RPG :)

Of course, in a Belgariad RPG, you'd need a special d20 that has all 20's on each side.

Aaron

You need 19 20s and a 1

Cause crit fails still count even in magic

Metool

@Aaron I... think crit fails are just on attack rolls, with anything more being a houserule.

Alex P

Consider the question being "Do I have to call my spy a Rogue?"

Aaron

@Metool In pathfinder at least you have to roll to overcome Spell Resistance.

Metool

21:09

@Aaron Which is not an attack roll or a saving throw.

Aaron

@Metool They can't crit fail them?

That makes no sense

MadMAxJr

Critical fails aren't a stock rule in PF.

But Paizo would love to sell you a deck of horrible critical fail events if you want to use them.

And a deck of super-critical results.

Aaron

My dm has the deck of crit cards

I dislike them cause I am a gunslinger so SHOULD get a x4 instead I get shitty x2 with x effect. Sometimes I don't even get the x2

Metool

Sources: Attack Rolls and Saving Throws. I have been unable to find other general rules regarding natural extremes.

SR does not have a similar clause.

MadMAxJr

21:30

Huh. Nat 1 is a miss. I've been doing it wrong in PF at least.

BESW

22:16

The witch/warlock question is fundamentally a very simple one: "Do characters in the world refer to themselves by the names of their classes?"

The Oracle

0

Q: Migration flags should be more general than “questions about video games”

Recently, I tried to flag How does one keep up a poker face? as “Definitely off topic: Probably Board-Gaming related (maybe not even that)”. Unfortunately, when flagging as off-topic, the only options are Questions about video games are off-topic here, but can be asked on Arqade. Questions abo...

discussion feature-request migration flagging

KRyan

does Brian get @s even if he's not here/not in tab-complete since he's a mod?

well, giving it a shot anyway

@BrianBallsun-Stanton the only way to move a discussion into chat is to have enough comments back and forth to generate the prompt. That being the case, I'm sorry, but if a comment I make generates a discussion, I'm likely to continue the discussion and move it to chat the first chance I get, but I am not likely to simply ignore responses to my comments, now or ever. Attempting to @ someone into chat, particularly new users, does not usually work, and doesn't preserve the discussion anyway.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton So, sorry about the annoyance and workload, but that's an issue with the site and this is the only recourse I am aware of. If there is a better solution available, I would be interested in knowing what it is.

BESW

@KRyan Pretty sure he doesn't.

I have a suggestion.

>

Hey, comments aren't really the best place for a proper conversation so [let's take this to chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11/rpg-general-chat).

If you mean that you need the discussion prompt to make a new room, what's wrong with doing it manually?

If you mean that you need the discussion prompt to transfer the existing comments into the chat, inviting the person to chat early makes that unnecessary (and you can still copy-paste the comment links into chat and they'll automatically expand into the full comment).

@KRyan If you feel like the site isn't providing the necessary tools, make a meta post about it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

22:34

oh man this question

3

Q: What are the major innovations in Dungeon World compared to D&D 3.5/Pf/4e?

In the comments to this question, a discussion was started on the major innovations in Dungeon World. Having read the ruleset, I did not see why some posters feel this is such a major step. After a first reading, I would name the following major differences: 4e style powers for everyone Calle...

game-design dungeon-world design apocalypse-world

so antagonistic

BESW

22:47

Why would you get the idea that I don't like it? That's not what I wrote, and not what I feel. Which parts of the question should I rephrase to remove 'opinions and sentiments'? — Mala 3 hours ago

Phrases like "Why is this a good thing," "I feel this is bad," and the many "Other systems did this first" add up to an antagonistic challenge to prove why you should feel the way others do, rather than an honest request for information. Your question is also reductionist, looking at each individual mechanic rather than at how they combine to create an overall effect; this adds to the feeling that you're trying to make a point rather than trying to learn something. If you'd like to workshop the question, please come to chat. — BESW 1 min ago

Joshua Aslan Smith

thats a great comment

BESW

[bow] I try.

BESW

23:03

@AlexP Hrm. Your thoughts on this?

@Mala Hi!

Mala

BESW: So...

Hi

BESW

At this point, the first thing to ask is: did any of the responses you got sufficiently answer your actual question?

Mala

not really, but I accepted the one that was best suited. I had hoped for more, though

BESW

Because if so, it's probably best to just chalk it up as a learning experience.

Ah, okay.

So first thing: don't accept the best answer, accept the one that answers your question. If you haven't gotten that yet, it's okay not to accept any of them.

Metool

@Mala this is very much off topic, but do you not have a gravatar?

Mala

23:06

Yeah I know but I was kinda jumpy because of all the mod interference in comments

=/

BESW

I've got a half-dozen questions which may never get proper answers.

Alex P

@BESW Me too. It's the best.

Mala

So I thought I'd reward the guys who did the work despite those comments

but yeah

not optimal

@Metool not for this account, no.

(obviously)

BESW

@Mala Upvotes do that, and bounties if someone goes beyond the call of duty.

Joshua Aslan Smith

yep

Mala

23:08

Mhm

Joshua Aslan Smith

I really wanna contribute to this but my wife needs me ill check back later

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith ttfn

Mala

So if I understand your comment correctly, I am discouraged from stating my impressions when asking about differences between systems?

Coz I feel this is important to see what I am looking for in an answer

BESW

Well, it kind of muddied the issue.

If you wanted a blow-by-blow discussion of each of the specific mechanics you mentioned, then you're on the right track.

Mala

I stated that

> A good answer would contain a short discussion of each of the major innovations of DW over older D&D variants, and what problem this change solves.

BESW

23:11

But if you wanted to get answers which talk about the system as a whole and why it encourages significantly different experiences than D&D does... then you're not really going about it right way.

Mala

I like stuff like flanking which makes tactical positioning more important

So if this is missing or different, I would like a discussion of why this is not bad. I said I feel it is bad; but I might be wrong. No absolutes, just my initial impression...

Alex P

@Mala So, okay, the problem with that is that DW kinda reflects a track that diverged from D&D something like 10 or 15 years ago.

Mala

But 'as a whole' discussion are fuzzy and fluff

BESW

By saying things like "other systems have this too," you're pre-defining what kind of answer you'll accept, which puts answers on the defensive.

Mala

well, it can't really innovate by rehashing

BESW

23:13

That is, you're saying that only a certain kind of innovation and change (that is, something totally new, rather than something which builds on existing mechanics) is worth admiring.

Mala

innovation seems that they do stuff a new way

seems to imply

Alex P

Apocalypse World is the latest phase in a 10-year-old conversation about what rules do that D&D has almost entirely missed out on.

BESW

Nuh-uh.

Mala

I am not talking about admiring

that is not even relevant

I don't expect never before seen stuff

BESW

Okay, backing up.

Mala

23:15

but if they use existing mechanics in a new way

the new way should be part of the answer

not the existing mechanics

however in the linked discussion (and others here)

those things were mentioned as inno

vations

so yeah

BESW

Basic question structure 101: make the question you're asking clear and concise in the body, don't rely on the title to ask your question.

Mala

> Having read the ruleset, I did not see why some posters feel this is such a major step

(..examples..)

> So...what am I missing?

(..explanation of what I expect from a good answer...)

BESW

What is "this"? What kind of "it" is it that you don't think you're seeing? You start talking about innovation in DW, but you don't say anything about it; you don't define your terms.

Your question starts with a link to a set of comments which could be deleted at any time (comments on SE are ephemeral), and all you say about the comments is that they're "about innovation." Then you immediately plunge into things you don't think are innovative, and at the end you introduce the previously-unmentioned idea that this innovation solves problems.... problems with what, we're unsure.

Mala

That how you interpret this? Hmm

BESW

It all boils down to "people think DW does new stuff, but it doesn't seem like it solves anything." Which is asking one question but expecting answers to another question entirely, because "new" and "solves problems" aren't implicitly correlated.

This tells me there's something in your head that isn't in the question, and the hole I'm seeing is shaped like "people admire this and I don't, convince me why I should like it."

Mala

23:21

The examples are mainly from examples in other questions + comments, + my personal impression from reading the sourcebook

BESW

I suggest that you use fewer examples.

Mala

DW fans say: this is great (e.g. everything is moves)

I feel - moves are like 4e powers

BESW

People get caught up in responding to specific examples and rebutting them.

Mala

so that's what I wrote, hoping that they would explain to me why they are not.

Rebut..

That's the wrong thing to do here

BESW

I am not familiar with DW, but I think you're missing the main point of the thing: DW's innovation isn't specifically in any individual mechanic. Its innovation is in how it uses them.

So if you look at the individual pieces you won't see much new.

Mala

23:23

...

BESW

If you look at how they fit together, you'll find the result of a decade-long discussion between developers and players about how tools should be used.

Mala

No, I don't think that is true.

In the end, DW is a set of game mechanics

those can be analysed

as a whole as well as with a focus on specific parts

That something like that should not be possible is your value judgement, but not something that follows.

BESW

Your question isn't asking about the whole at all; it pre-supposes that the parts alone can tell you everything you need to know.

Is this your question? "People tell me that DW does new things, but I'm not seeing anything I haven't seen before. What's new and cool about DW compared to editions of D&D?"

Alex P

@Mala So, truth be told, I answered your question under the assumption that there was no reason to talk about most of the things in your list. Because they're wholly irrelevant to what I think is the answer to your question. It's kinda like asking why DW goes to level 10 instead of 20.

Mala

BESW: Yes

Alex P: But it is supposed to simulate dungeon crawls as we love from D&D

This implies a strong tactical component.

E.g. the lack of flanking makes me think that something is missing.

That's what I tried to express.

Alex P

23:32

So, it's fiction-first.

Mala

How can it simulate the D&D we love without that?

Yes, but how is that relevant to my statements above?

Alex P

Because "flanking" isn't the result of moving minis around.

See Backstab, for instance.

Also, what is "simulate?"

Dungeon World isn't trying to copy D&D blow-by-blow. That'd be a waste of time. It's gutting the game aggressively to identify what the author considers to be the cool, fun, inspiring stuff -- "the game you imagined D&D was when someone first told you about it" -- and just do that stuff.

Mala

Surprised or defenseless, how does this a play to mid-combat positioning?

re: backstab

Alex P

Have you ever played AD&D without a grid?

BESW

@Mala Your newest edit has the kernel of a question I'd be very interested in: "Why is Dungeon World considered a seminal work for innovative mechanic design?"

Mala

23:37

Alex P: Yes and I learned why I prefer third ed ;)

Alex P

@BESW Though the answer to that one is "Because way too many people don't know that Apocalypse World is a thing." ;)

BESW

@AlexP That just shoves the question up a rung.

Alex P

Sure.

I'm just sayin'.

Mala

> So...what am I missing? What are the major innovations in Dungeon World compared to D&D 3.5/Pf/4e? Why is Dungeon World (or Apocalypse World) considered a seminal work for innovative mechanic design?

;)

BESW

And then take out all the nit-picky junk about what you've pre-decided the answers should address.

Ask your actual question, and then get out of the way for the answers.

There are occasions where providing a lot of detail in a question is good, and can make or break the post, but this isn't it. Since we're dealing with a big unknown, it's best to posit the question with as few frills as possible because we're liable to clutter the pot with possibly-false assumptions.

Mala

23:45

But those are points I am interested in.

A good answer should contain those.

Alex P

@Mala Well, it sounds more like those are symptoms of that question you just asked in chat about, like, the tactical stuff.

Mala

Well, if the answer is that

> It's gutting the game aggressively

and tactics are part of the cut out stuff, that would certainly be enlightening

BESW

The DW devs considered what they wanted in a D&D-like game, and created a game which caters to that experience.

Alex P

They are or they aren't, depending on what "tactics" actually means to you.

DW tactical play works a little bit like this.

BESW

One of the weaknesses of 3.5 is that it fools itself into thinking that the system is capable of supporting any kind of game experience we might want.

Mala

23:50

Flanking and the importance of in-combat positioning feels like a good example of what a tactics-related component might contain

BESW

DW (and 4e, to my pleased surprise) avoids that pitfall by giving itself an experience goal.

@Mala Might; don't conflate a common mechanic with the experience it provides. Other mechanics are just as good at providing a similar experience.

Mala

Of course; but since this question is focused on the differences between DW and D&D, and flanking is a prime example of tactics in D&D, well...

BESW

On an entirely different note, catch it before it vanishes:

0

Q: Becoming a werewolve

I have been trying for 6 years now for any possible way to become a werewolves or vampire and I wanted to know if there was any possibly any way I could become a werewolves/vampire without getting bitten I just need to know cause I have been trying for years and I have even tried to go the bitten...

the-walking-dead

4

Alex P

It's like a classified ad. "Initiate looking for vampire master. I want to be turned!"

Metool

the-walking-dead

I like that.

BESW

23:53

TIL werewolves are undead.

Metool

TIL The Walking Dead is actually about werewolves, not zombies

Mala

Ok maybe I should also add a part about battlegrids and DW in general

BESW

Hmm.

That sounds like a mixed message.

"I don't think DW is very innovative. Why isn't it more like D&D?"

Mala

But that's part of their sales pitch

BESW

That's an issue with the question, I think. Half your points are "DW left out a D&D mechanic, I think that's bad," and the other half are "DW still uses a D&D mechanic, I think that's not innovative."

Transcript for