TRPG General Chat

Zachiel

00:00

Oh, I... I wish he was able to gain back his happyness but sometimes I can't tell what will work to achieve that goals, sometimes the solution is boring to me, sometimes I have an idea that works, sometimes I have an idea that doesn't.

Let's have a practical example

I had my character be really companionable. She was an ex rogue and a soldier so I tought having her like some booze was a good idea. Until the most famous barbarian in the whole region brought some strong wine to a party and she insisted she wanted to taste it and she rolled a 1 on the constitution check and she ended up kissing a girl while some elitist and moralist important people watched.

Her boss kept her as a guard, because she was a capable one, but her image was forever compromised

which was my reaction?

The character became afraid of drinking and stopped it altogheter

Alex P

So, scene: your character cuts loose a bit to hard and that puts her reputation and future advancement at risk.

Your character is worried about losing her job? Damaging her social status?

@Zachiel As the audience (though I'm an ill-informed audience because I am just looking at the one scene), here's what I hope will happen: she'll learn greater independence and confidence by seeing that the opinions of higher-status people aren't always worthy of respect.

So, what I'd do in play is to have her think about that. Maybe the scene where her boss is mad at her ends with her walking away thinking, "Is there a future for me here? Do I want to be somewhere that doesn't really accept me? Is my advancement worth it if it just leads to more posturing and judgement?"

For example.

Zachiel

00:20

@AlexP according to this, she could have started avoiding the higher-status people, which I didn't want to happen

but it was probably alright for my character

Alex P

@Zachiel Not necessarily!

I mean, okay, my natural inclination with fictional conflicts about social status, developed as a result of playing other ways and realizing I hated what my characters would become, is "When status is at risk, use the turmoil to drill down to why the character wants status, and separate their real true desire from the shell of stuff they think is necessary to achieve it."

Zachiel

at one point she really tried to walk away. She failed so hard, her boss was getting two complaint letters in a short time from her best friend and biggest economical partner, so she asked to be fired.
Since her boss was the lead of a secret society and my character knew it all it was extremely risky. The boss asked me to stay and my character felt forced to promise she would never take initiative without asking. Which, having a charisma of 16, wasn't that good of an idea

@AlexP mmmh nice things to think at

Alex P

This may also help if you're looking to navigate and manipulate social status: Status is Your Toy!

BESW

I think one of the problems is that other players seem to consider @Zachiel's status to be their toy.

Alex P

@BESW Yeah, it's hard to separate IC and OOC here.

Zachiel

00:32

Oh, no, I don't think they're messing with me on purpose.

Alex P

In OOC terms, I think what might be happening is "status anxiety = losing status, automatically."

BESW

That's the fundamental cause of a lot of Zach's problems, I think: he's playing in systems where it's okay to use one's own sense of fun as a justification to reduce someone else's.

Zachiel

@BESW Maybe they don't realize how this thing is bugging me and they see my will to do things differently as metagaming intent, but I don't think any of them is having their character behave that way with the will to piss me off

BESW

@Zachiel It's happening, though.

"It makes sense for my character to do this to your character" should not be a reason to squash someone's fun.

And certainly the fact that they ridicule your inability to play their game is not cool.

Zachiel

@BESW You used sense of fun. I guess they don't understand why I'm not having fun in a situation where they would have fun themselves

BESW

00:35

@Zachiel Indeed!

That's why I have consistently been puzzled why you want to stay with a group of people whose idea of fun is so different from your own.

Zachiel

Because when I see that they're having fun I wonder why I'm not able to and I want to become able to

BESW

I think that if you were able to do what they're doing, you wouldn't find it as fun as they do.

Alex P

So, this goes to another aspect of "look upon the character hopefully" -- it's not just a thing the author does, it's a thing the audience does. In an RPG, we're all both! But, also, in particular, all the players need to care about each others' characters.

If they don't, what happens is they tend to block you from actually being able to follow that "hopeful" arc, ever.

That's part of what I mean by asking if they're cheating, earlier. Does it seem like there's an in-group and the the social contract of play between them is different from the one you experience?

Zachiel

It does look like there's some in-group. In effet, every single guild is one and then there's the groups that almost always play togheter and the high level vs low levels group

Alex P

For the OOC issues, you can try this: "exempt yourself [from the group] in your own mind, to set aside any status anxiety you feel as a member of the group and to take an outside look." Forget wanting to play and imagine they're strangers and you're observing them. What are they doing and why are they doing it?

What do they value, as a group?

Zachiel

00:47

socially, it went this way. There was a site called "Forgotten Realms", some people in the site didn't like the administration and believed some unfairness was in act, like some people getting more quests than others and the GMs being hypocrit, so they left. The first site died after a while and I started attending a different one. When my character in the different one died I went back but I found an already developed social tissue.

@AlexP mmmh them as the whole lot of players of that site? The guild I was in? The guild I wish I chose?

Alex P

@Zachiel The group whose opinion you care about, that's driving your discomfort.

Zachiel

Ok, so...

Alex P

Conceivably the player base as a whole, also, if that group represents their shared values.

Zachiel

there's actually two groups which I care about, and I care about them because I feel excluded from them. There's also some other people which opinion I care about but they are not tied to groups that strongly

Alex P

(Side note: I feel like I should take some of that "advocate for your character" stuff I wrote here and turn it into a coherent statement. Maybe a question answer, maybe some other kind of post somewhere else.)

@Zachiel I guess start off with "Okay, why do I think this is (/ they are) cool?"

Zachiel

00:52

the first group is mostly made by admins of the site. It's a couple of girls who like to write in purple prose. They RP this couple of gruff half orc with Asperger's syndrome and petite redhead who went through lots of things togheter and they like playing quests where feelings are prevalent. Like finding an orphan half-orc and finding/protecting his adoptive mother, or otherwise caring for people.
They are cool because I like how they write and I like the feelings and the expressions of their character, they feel so real and dramatic.

they are fun to play with and their characters are collaborative. One of them said I'm unable to RP any charismatic character so she suggests me to stop playing, because she believes my character ends up really bad in the realism scale

they both don't understand why I want to be high level or why I'm obsessed with doing the perfect build and believe I'm spending much energies on "not doing errors" instead of playing the roleplayer game

Alex P

@Zachiel I'm gonna blink out for a bit, but I'll be back later to read anything you have to say.

How big is this mod group? Like 4-5 people? Just two?

Zachiel

@AlexP there's a webmaster, who does not play but has moderation privileges and three moderators I think. There were three last time I checked. The last one, the only one guy, has an epic wizard. I don't really like his character (maybe because it's male XD) but I like how he plays and I like how he can be all "hey, a lever, they say it's dangerous to touch things you don't know what they do but... you know, I never liked people telling me what to do."

I can''t play a cleric of Tymora. "Don't prepare, Lady Luck will help you" is not something that actually happens by D&D mechanics

Then of course there are several DMs, ranging from "ok, I didn't see that 1 you rolled, roll again" to "and I haven't really prepared anything or looked at your sheets so here's another trap, have fun with it while I prepare the next session" to "great atmosphere, the monsters are too weak for a polymorphed you" to "If you can oneshot monsters, so can they"

The three admins are also DMs

And some DMs are more "I want you to feel cool", some are "I railroad because I ton't know how else to manage this", some are "no combats, I want to see your character's feelings and alignment and background coming out" and some are "these are the monsters, if you cant' beat them you'd better realize and run".

So it's really etherogeneous

BESW

01:20

@Zachiel [blink] Congrats, a word I don't know.

Zachiel

English almost always has two words from every concept, one coming from Latin and one from the language of the Saxons I think. The latin words were used for more figurative meanings, like profound vs. deep and are usually longer and more ricercate. Being Italian derived from Latin, most English words I use are the ones with a Latin root, because they're similar to those I know

@BESW Anyway, I didn't think you did not know of "really". U_U

And now a digression on facts about the quests I had with those DMs, which might not be inherent to the whole argument. I just feel like being a storyteller tonight

BESW

"Etherogeneous" is an awesome word, much better than something like "airy."

And then you did it again: "ricercate"?

Alex P

@Zachiel So, what's the glue that holds this forum thing together? Why do these people, with all their differences, play together?

Zachiel

@BESW I'm not even sure that's a word

BESW

Google's just telling me that ricercare is Italian for "to seek."

Zachiel

01:33

@AlexP I guess the main reason is that they believe D&D to be a thing. They like playing D&D by chat, or they like playing by chat and found out this site, they tried it and they found someone who they like playing with. Maybe it's better or nicer than that other site they were in before, so they stay for a while.

@BESW refined

BESW

@Zachiel Aha! That makes sense.

Zachiel

Some people think the game has already estabilished groups in it and it's hard to enter them or to get attention from the staff if you make a new one. I guess missing the site for 2 years puts me in the newcomers sect as well but I found a group that accepted me. Them I discovered I liked a different group more, but my character was not suited for joining them, just like if a Pussy Riot member wanted to be part of Russian Government

Alex P

01:48

But your character-confidence issue transcends this, right? Like, it's a problem across the board?

Or just with these people?

Zachiel

across the board

it comes out more with the russian government, because I kept doing things that looked inappropriate to the expectations of that guild

Alex P

Then I stand by my advice. :)

Zachiel

I promised some stories but my time is almost over

BESW

[shakes metal-clad fist] Next time, Gadget!

Alex P

See ya!

Zachiel

01:53

ALMOST!

BESW

04:01

I'm turning into The Doctor Who Guy on sf.se.

Problematic

06:45

@BESW Turning into, like you catch glimpses of a telephone box lurking in your peripheral vision, and have dreams that you're wearing tweed?

BESW

@Problematic My lapels have question marks on them and they didn't last week!

Problematic

It might not be as bad as it seems. You could be turning into the Riddler.

BESW

@Problematic Perhaps, but that doesn't explain my craving for jelly beans.

In other news, my Digger Omnibus left Hawaii two days ago.

GMNoob

07:42

stufftoblowyourmind.com//blog/…

BESW

Looks like a security nightmare.

GMNoob

security? There is no crime in that future.

BESW

No crime, indeed. Just look at the control tower in the background. Those buttresses are criminal.

GMNoob

08:18

Oh, you mean the legs? :P

BESW

08:51

Just watched Dark Fury.

A couple interesting ideas I'll rip off for an RPG some day.

Also, very appropriate style similarities to the old Aeon Flux shorts.

BESW

09:20

Hmm. GoG has the Windows version of Assault on Dark Athena for $7.50.

The Mac App Store has the Mac version for $15.

Steam has... a free trailer.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a loser.

BESW

10:17

@JonathanHobbs [wave]

What's new, Green Ghost?

doppelgreener

@BESW Hi!

I am in SYDNEY visiting RELATIVES

I have some! All of them are here.

Except for the ones who are not here, but those ones are not even in the same country.

BESW

Cool.

My dad and I are going to Trogdor's for Christmas dinner tomorrow.

doppelgreener

That sounds great! :D

BESW

Ayuh.

As you can imagine, my family doesn't do much for Christmas.

But my mom's in the mainland with her mom and sister, so aside from never turning down an offer to eat one of Trogdor's dad's turkeys, I think it'll be good for my dad to get out of the house.

Oh, and The Time of the Doctor is coming out!

[bouncy] Can't wait to see Capaldi.

doppelgreener

10:33

@BESW Plus I think having christmas dinner with a friends is a wonderful way to have it

@BESW How long until then!?

BESW

Christmas Day.

So... for us, probably the day after Christmas.

doppelgreener

Oh wow.

Yeah, boxing day for us I think

And the Hogfather is playing on our ABC's iview!

Yaaaayyy

BESW

Oh, and there's going to be a Sherlock mini-episode, too.

It's a Moffat-y Christmas all around.

doppelgreener

(We 0have only about six or seven major channels in Australia. One of them, the ABC, is government-owned, well-funded, and produces excellent quality news. The government is considering selling them off to be private. Many people do not like this.)

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Government-funded?

doppelgreener

10:43

@BESW Oh! Yes. Funded by the government and by ABC shops, which just sell the various shows and documentaries they've produced, or some things from the BBC

BESW

Hmm.

Have they considered an arrangement more similar to the Beeb?

Not that everyone's pleased with the Beeb's financing situation, but it's an interesting balance between government funding and private ownership.

doppelgreener

I take it the Beeb = BBC?

BESW

Aye.

AKA Auntie Beeb.

doppelgreener

Wow. The ABC is called Auntie too. (But in our case: just Auntie)

How does the Beeb work?

BESW

Everyone who owns a TV that's capable of picking up BBC broadcasts pays a license fee which goes directly to the BBC.

This means that the BBC has no government or private strings on its purse.

doppelgreener

10:50

Oh wow. Just... everyone is collectively obligated for funding it, whether they watch it or not?

BESW

Yup.

It "belongs to the people."

The theory is that this makes the Beeb independent of political agendas and gives it leeway to experiment with the medium in ways that a private sector company would avoid because of loss of income.

doppelgreener

Hm! Interesting.

I think our government's more motivated by the idea of getting money from the sale, though, as much as just simply defunding it.

BESW

Of course, it has its problems and its controversies.

doppelgreener

Our current government's motivation is that the previous government appeared to have little control over their expenditure and brought us into significant debt, so the new government is selling off stuff and axing programs.

The fact they seem to be axing a lot of programs related to the environment, poor people, or basically all the demographics that are not their primary supporters, is making a lot of people understandably quite angry

(aside from the fact they're cutting programs full stop)

BESW

I can see that.

doppelgreener

10:55

Our previous government was a party that is also very supportive of people on welfare, or minimum wage, or otherwise financially not well-off. So they handed out a lot of money.

So simply by not doing that there's a huge financial difference.

(by handing out money, I mean they provided a bunch of stimulus packages and immediate payments of: "if you fit this set of circumstances, you're getting a few hundred dollars this particular month as part of a particular support program", in addition to various ongoing support programs)

it's fairly consistent with Australia's socialist philosophy of redistributing the wealth and supporting people not well-off, but the two major parties go about it very differently

@BESW Also that actually sounds really nice. In fact it's indirectly what we do right now! We pay for the ABC anyway, because we pay tax to the government which in turn pays the ABC.

Also

As a DM, if a village started burning their dead, I would cheerfully make them come back as fire elementals. Or flaming zombies. — IgneusJotunn yesterday

... or flaming skeletons.

I like this comment a lot.

BESW

Most of my campaigns had the party run into at least one unusual real-world practice for disposing of the dead.

My favorite is air burial.

doppelgreener

@BESW Air burial!?

BESW

Yup!

You cut the flesh from the bones, lay out the organs and the meat, grind the bones with grain, and lay it all out on hilltop or on a specially-built scaffold for the carrion birds to eat.

[hums] Come feed the little birds, show them you care, and you'll be glad if you do! The young ones are hungry, their nests are so bare...

doppelgreener

I find that ritual... discomforting

lisardggY

@JonathanHobbs Neil Gaiman had a little story-within-a-story in one of the later Sandman comics that featured an air burial.

BESW

11:08

@lisardggY One of the Gaiman stories I actually rather like as stories! Most of that particular issue was good.

@JonathanHobbs It makes a lot of sense in areas where burial is impractical or impossible.

You find it in places where the ground is too rocky, or predators are too common.

doppelgreener

@BESW I was wondering why in particular people would do that.

BESW

And symbolically it's a direct and literal "return the flesh to the cycle of life" ritual.

Sky burial

Sky burial (Tibetan: , w bya gtor), lit. "alms for the birds") is a funerary practice in the Chinese provinces of Tibet, Qinghai, and Inner Mongolia and in Mongolia proper wherein a human corpse is incised in certain locations and placed on a mountaintop, exposing it to the elements (mahabhuta) and animals – especially predatory birds. The locations of preparation and sky burial are understood in the Vajrayana traditions as charnel grounds. The majority of Tibetans and many Mongolians adhere to Vajrayana Buddhism, which teaches the transmigration of spirits. There is n...

Also Dakhma, and some Native American tribes practiced it too.

In another campaign, I had dwarves who lived inside a floating island whose entire surface was mud. They could've dumped the bodies off the island, but they consigned their dead to the mud because they felt dwarves were of the earth and should return to it.

The party briefly considered the merits of raising an army of mud zombies, but realized the living dwarves would rend them limb from limb if they tried.

Professor Loki Caprion

boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122313/the-doge-ship Wow. Such boat.

BESW

11:25

Many Venice.

Professor Loki Caprion

And good morning/afternoon/evening/garfblatt!

BESW

And a happy garfblatt to you, too.

lisardggY

@BESW I believe the proper idiom is merry garfblatt.

BESW

@lisardggY Only if you're a heathen Myrthish.

lisardggY

@BESW I'm Myrthish, my parents were Myrthish, and I will fight to the death to defend the Myrthish way of life!

BESW

11:33

@lisardggY See? Always overreacting. Can't just be happy.

Professor Loki Caprion

I don't see why we can't just accept the Myrthish. They have the same core beliefs of the Gorptians!

lisardggY

So it is written in the Book of Myrthas (chapter 9, verse J):
> Blessed be he who, when confronted with happiness, merrily tosses it back into the faces of his friends.

doppelgreener

12:24

@Zachiel Along those lines, I have a cookie clicker story to tell.

A friend of mine has a friend who was playing cookie clicker for a week.

My friend did not think this a worthwhile activity and wanted to prove a point about it, so he wrote a script which would click the cookie as fast as he could get it to. (golden cookies might also have been clicked)

In a matter of days he completely overtook his friend's record in cookies.

And then his friend asked him what buildings he had. To which he said: "What, you mean I can buy those? I thought those were just like achievements or something"

A point may have been proven that night

lisardggY

12:53

Heh.

This morning I finally got my 100th Antimatter Converter and its associated achievements, finished all Christmas achievements, and can gladly put the whole thing behind me.

Until the next update. Probably.

BESW

[refresh] Aw, still in Memphis.

doppelgreener

@BESW What is?

BESW

Oh, I'm just obsessively refreshing the tracking page for my Digger Omnibus.

Also I'm downloading Assault on Dark Athena.

Aaron

13:09

mornin

Professor Loki Caprion

Oh, what a beautiful mooooooooornin'... oh, what a beautiful daaaaaaay~

BESW

Eeyup.

lisardggY

...and I'm off to my 3rd-and-a-half consecutive meeting of the day. Woohoo!

BESW

So, I've started up the BESW Lending Library again, this time for some youth who recently got involved in the community-building service programs I'm part of.

First three books lent: The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Princess Bride.

Professor Loki Caprion

:D I love the Princess Bride!

I love the stories of the Hobbit and LotR, too, of course.

doppelgreener

13:14

@BESW Have you ever read Bone: Out from Boneville?

BESW

I have not. I'm aware of Bone, though; it's on my list.

(Ursula Vernon cites Bone as a major influence on Digger.)

doppelgreener

It sure sounds like it could have been. I'm watching the Kickstarter video now and it reminds me immensely of Bone.

It's definitely different, but some of the same spirit is there.

Bone stands among the most memorable comics I've read, and it's charming and touching and... so many good things.

It is not like most comics I've read.

BESW

The best comics usually aren't.

I recently read Britten and Brülightly.

Talk about a kick in the gut.

It's the story of a private investigator knows as The Heartbreaker because all of his cases involve destroying someone's relationship when he solves them.

He's become suicidal, and his only companion is a teabag he keeps in his pocket. They talk to each other.

This is never commented on.

doppelgreener

@BESW it is a very wonderful thing when an author takes seriously something nobody else could

and... does that.

BESW

It's an awful, depressing, gut-wrenching story of despair and human weakness and the frailty of hope. And one of its main protagonists is a limp sachet of tea leaves.

Zachiel

13:24

Mmmh, AlexP, B.E.S.W. ...both here: check

BESW

@Zachiel [wave] Reporting for chat, sir.

Zachiel

So, which story do you want to hear? The ruinous ruin exploration or the time when we had to explore a tomb?

BESW

I think @AlexP should choose.

Zachiel

So be it

Professor Loki Caprion

Oi, wot?

Alex P

13:26

@BESW Choose what?

Zachiel

I'm gonna try to remember Neverwinter is running and it closes if I stay AFK more than 14 minutes.

Alex P

Oh, okay.

Hrrm.

Ruinous ruins, why not.

BESW

Yo, dawg...

Hah! The Nice Answer Badger visited me again.

Professor Loki Caprion

Damned Hufflepuffs.

BESW

Always puffing when they should've huffled.

Zachiel

13:32

So, for anybody who has never played Neverwinter Nights of has no historical knowledge of Faerun, Luskan is a port in the north, ruled by a council of ex pirates and controlled by a cabal of merchant wizards. My character is a private guard for a noble there and among our duties we need to contribute to the city's safety

Alex P

"Go adventuring," in other words?

BESW

@AlexP Nah, probably "Stand in front of the treasury and don't respond to anything anyone does for eight hours. That's six Will saves and four Fortitude saves."

Zachiel

The city was built around the ruins of an ancient town and there is an entire ruined city below the huge graveyard. Some powerful wizard in the past put some seals to prevent undead from emergin en masse. If they did, the whole North would be invaded. Of course it happens every now and then that someone wants to break seals. This time an high rank of the guard is patrolling the area and sees a new opening in the ground so she puts some guards there and we organize a group of people to go down

@BESW mostly, plus the noble is selling info to one of the ex pirates, which is the main reason she's a noble instead of a simple brothel holder, and I'm an undercover assassin

So it's me, the high rank (both gish builds, level 11 or somesuch) and several low level guards (let's say around level 5) and we have two tunnels to explore.

BESW

Oooh, it's time to sing the "Let's Split the Party" song!

And a one, and a two, and a one, two, three-- DOOOOOOOOOOM.

Zachiel

oh it was a 7 people party, we knew of the two tunnels from a cursory exploration and we wanted to split

doppelgreener

13:43

@BESW That's a very nice answer. (I read through the deadlock seal's page waiting for the part where it says "and then the doctor forced one open with his sonic screwdriver", but was pleasantly surprised not to find it)

Zachiel

My idea is we divide by level but no, the two DMs who are following us want me and the sergeant to divide. So the lvl 11 warrior I wanted to call t play with us because we feared the dead magic zones that sometimes are encountered in the ruins goes with the sergeant, because the sergeant says so

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Yeah, instead there is no rhyme nor reason to who has access to this technology and where or why they use it.

Zachiel

Ok don't worry, I'm a buffer so I buffed my whole lot of allies already and we ventured down the halls.
Our DM came late, wasn't briefed by the other DM, did not know what we was supposed to find so he just put some traps on the way, which our rogue failed to find - yay for our faith in his capabilities.

meanwhile the other party was in a cool crypt of doom with an abyss on the side, fighting a corpse impaling construct.

BESW

My personal theory is that the deadlock seal is LGTW tech that wasn't entirely purged by the time lock on the War; the tech was widespread during the War, and still survives in random places.

Zachiel

Oh, and a cave in blocked us all, while some magic stone prevented us from escaping by teleportation. Our DM sent us a map of the crypt we found at the end of the traps and told us to play in there until next session, which was due in two days. I polymorphed into a dragon and burrowed out.

BESW

13:49

Early to bed for me, guys. This'll be regular for the next fortnight at least, as I have to get up early to prep my dad's meds while my mom's off island.

ttfn

Aaron

see ya

happy holidays

BESW

I'll catch up on the backlog while supervising his morning swim.

Alex P

@Zachiel Is that the end of it, basically?

Zachiel

So the other party went on and they faced a pair of demons over a column in the middle of a lava pit - while their DM substituted ours and we faced some winter wolves and a lich and I was all like "ok. Cool, my first lich. But they got a room with lava!"

Alex P

Burrowing out?

Oh, okay, continue.

Zachiel

13:51

@AlexP No no we headed back. I wanted the magical stone (which of course was out of reach, being so costy)

Let's say my character wanted it

and ok, they got three fights against cool, evocative monsters, while we got to kill a lich in a dark, nameless crypt. Hey, ok, it was a lich. I guess I always crave for what happens to the others

Alex P

So, is this a story of failure?

Aaron

Sounds like one of the DMs wasn't trying.

Alex P

Or just a story of "our session sucked?"

Aaron

What google thing lets other edit the same page as you?

Alex P

@Aaron Docs does. Also Wave but that's dead.

Magician

14:02

docs?

Aaron

docs! thansk

Alex P

My friend does RPG online play through Docs.

It's about the best way to get "literary" play in real time (as opposed to the slow pace of play-by-post).

doppelgreener

@AlexP Didn't Wave just become Docs?

(or at least, the technology became the driving part of docs)

Alex P

@JonathanHobbs I think so?

lisardggY

@JonathanHobbs Some of the real-time collaboration features were ported over to Docs, but a lot of the UI idioms (separate messages linked together into one "wave") weren't, and they were as important as the technology underneath.

doppelgreener

14:10

@lisardggY Thanks for clearing that up :O I never knew much about Wave

lisardggY

@JonathanHobbs It was a very interesting concept, but its main drawback was that it tried to reach too far. Google went all rah-rah about it being a replacement to email and the next generation of whatever.

Rather than being a tool blending collaborative editing with real-time chat that never really hit any specific niche.

Alex P

@Zachiel So, other people are having cooler adventures than you. I think that's a social/structural problem that game has, on account of the way it's a shared world that then calves off into individually GMed sessions.

Zachiel

@AlexP It's a story of "I'm never happy with what I get"

Alex P

@Zachiel Do you experience this in games that don't involve seeing the GM next door making it rain for the other players? Or just the ones that do?

Zachiel

I experience that everyday. If I see a different group of players getting a better story out of their sessions I wonder why I'm not in it and I wonder if me being in the group would mean the coolness of the story is diminished or if I was not in a mission but I was looking it from the outside it would've been better

Sometimes I like more reading what the other games are about than playing them myself

including most actual plays on forums

Aaron

14:25

docs.google.com/document/d/…

any ideas?

doppelgreener

@Aaron Party hard because it is Saturnalia

Alex P

@Zachiel I think you worry a lot. I think your environment -- in particular the shared-world game -- encourages you to worry. That's because it constantly creates a big in-character hurdle around what's basically just Being Allowed to Play with the Group.

doppelgreener

... and constantly being concerned over what everyone else is getting to do

instead of Just Playing A Game

Zachiel

@JonathanHobbs I think that's true but it's not only in that game. I'm playing a mmorpg now. And I feel bad because I can't farm as fast as the other players

doppelgreener

I think that's kinda normal in MMO's. It bothers me when I can't keep up so well too

Aaron

14:41

@Zachiel That could be simply familiarity with the game.

I used to dislike how long it took me to get Uri (In game money) in dark orbit but starting again knowing what to do I optimized my purchases ect and am now quite far along in much less time.

Zachiel

@JonathanHobbs And now put it into an environment where who starts first has a story in game and the npcs trust him/her more (which is only slightly empairing because the DMs try to balance that but... a same level warrior that started from scratch went questing with an epic group I could not enter in because I changed my PC and nobody knows or trusts it)

It's like I had to do some things to be accepted and now it's too late to do them

or doing them is still possible, but way harder and more time-consuming, which makes me nervous

but then I make this postulations and then see people who come out from nowhere and in 2 months they gain everybody's trust and I'm all "why? what am I doing wrong?"

and THIS is what I'd like to learn

Alex P

@Zachiel Okay, see Status is Your Toy. They are affirming the group's values and not expressing their status anxiety.

Which is another way of saying "act like a cool kid and you can be one of the cool kids."

"But only if it doesn't look like you're trying too hard."

Zachiel

14:57

@AlexP I need someone to train me to be cool, but people who's not involved in the game can't really guide me. Plus, I like whining! (XD)

Alex P

15:33

I think you like the promise of that game more than you like what you could get out of playing it. Even if all of your issues were solved.

MadMAxJr

I am amused. Several friends and I are playing a game of Civilizaiton 5. Only now we appear to be roleplaying our various leaders while we play. Unexpected roleplay and amusement.

Professor Loki Caprion

@MadMAxJr Oooh, if I played Civ 5 against other humans I'd totally do that.

But I'm averse to competitive gaming. :x

Zachiel

@AlexP Entirely possible. But even with my current problems with it I've had fun with it - and it's vastly better than GMing for my group, if I don't compare to others

MadMAxJr

16:05

@ProfessorLokiCaprion Civ 5 is fun in that respect. While there is only one winner, it is possible to play without resorting to wars.

Professor Loki Caprion

@MadMAxJr Oh, I know. I just get antsy playing against people; ESPECIALLY strangers.

MadMAxJr

Naw, this is just a game with friends.

RedRiderX

I feel the need to spread the joy:

Yo Ho Ho Ho!

MadMAxJr

America and Arabia are allies, Poland to the south is being a warmonger, and off in the distant east we have Venice, Egypt, Japan, and the Zulus locked in a power-grab war.

RedRiderX

@MadMAxJr Just like real life.

Zachiel

16:33

> Do you want high-high status in your group instead? Then you have to trump its in-group status system. You have to find a way to make your own status invulnerable to the group's judgment. You'll have to find your own way to do this, but I can point you to the classic ways, which shouldn't startle you: money, sex, and policymaking.

WHAT?

that did startle me

DampeS8N