TRPG General Chat

Gameboon

18:08

Greeting everyone,

I come here with (yet) another question! I'm looking for a D&D 3.5 mechanic I once saw somewhere. I remember reading about some seed of evil or a seed of corruption or whatever somewhere. I don't recall if it's homebrew, or official, I just know that it had stages that had several positive and negative side effects, until (I think, at least), in the end the character afflicted by this DIES.

Now, if there's anyone who can point me in the right direction (sourcebook?) or can remember anything about this, I would be grateful (not that you can buy anything with gratitude th…

Aaron

I think you are talking about wild magic

Does that sound right? @Gameboon

Gameboon

18:28

hmm...i'm not sure

I think it was more like some kind of affliction to a character

Zachiel

Necrotic Cist

or Cyst

@Gameboon Is that it?

A fast internet search tells me it's detailed in Liber Mortis (in English: Libris Mortis. But that is so not-latin that my spine shivers)

Gameboon

I'll check it out (searches book stash).

Zachiel

It's a feat that's a prerequisite for some spells, if you need to refine your search in the book

Lord_Gareth

Someone has summoned me?

Zachiel

Uhmmm, no?

How are you, Lord?

Gameboon

18:39

Okay, I checked it out in Libris Mortis. Mother Cyst. Unfortunately (while cool), it's not what I'm looking for, although it's close. The cyst part at least seemed about alright. But as far as I can recall it was something that grew with the character as he gained levels (I could be mistaken here). But if this is all that turns up here this evening, I will probably modify the cyst for the game i'm running.

Thanks for your help anyway.

Zachiel

Try looking for symbiote familiar

Aaron

@Zachiel Oh what book is that in? Sounds interesting.

GamerJosh

@Gameboon Mongoose Publishing - The Quintessential Chaos Mage?

grandwiki.wikidot.com/path-of-beserk-growth

Gameboon

18:57

@Zachiel I found a forum thread about that, not what I'm looking for, but interesting nonetheless.
@GamerJosh , while cool, nope.

I believe it was something a non-mage could also 'suffer' from.

Hmm....my @*name* things don't become orange.....

Zachiel

Only those for you should

Gameboon

In that case, it's fine.

Anyway, I think I'll just discuss some options with the player in question. See what direction he wants to go with. Think ''Evil family experimented with him while he was a baby'' - kind of thing.

Lexaelle

19:12

Hi!

Zachiel

Hello. Are you new here? May we be of some help?

Lexaelle

I'm new yes, but I'm here just for discussion ^^

Zachiel

I see you're familiar with other stacks ;) Ah je voudrais me rappeler le français. You're like the third French in this chat lately

So are you a roleplayer already or just interested?

Lexaelle

I'm a roleplayer ^^ well, not very often, but I like that, I'm on RPG forums too

Alex P

Hello!

Metool

19:27

Oooh, nice. I have to ask, which sorts of games do you play?

Zachiel

@Lexaelle Ah, I'm doing a play by forum too but I can't stand the abysmal times between actions.

Lexaelle

Hello ^^

@Metool Medieval fantasy games, first, sometimes steampunk, and when we could a Kingdom Heart rpg created by my best friend

Zachiel

I guess you're of the "system doesn't matter" school XD

Metool

oh

I get the feeling I should be plugging something.

Lexaelle

@Zachiel I guess so ^^"

Shkeil

19:35

Hi @Lexaelle. I'm surprised to see you here

Lexaelle

@Shkeil Hi Love ! Hey, I like RPG !

Zachiel

@Lexaelle Let me warn you. I'm pretty sure of the opposite.

Lexaelle

@Zachiel You make me doubt of what I understood XD 'cause of my poor english, I have the impression I missed something ^^"

Alex P

19:56

I have solved the puzzle!

0

A: Should "NUMENÉRA" include the diacritic when written textually?

What do Official Sources Say? For: Someone working on the Numenera vidoe game seems to think it's a diacritic. Against: I couldn't find a single instance of a diacritic on the site, including the "What in a Name" page, which is literally all about the name of the game. There's no accent in...

Zachiel

@Lexaelle There's a school of thought that says that no matter what's the gaming system you're using the results of a game are satisfactory or not depending on the game master and on the players only. Another theory is called System Does Matter and says the opposite: the rules of a game have a wide impact on how the result

Lexaelle

Oh, in that case, all games are fun if the gm and the players are cool.

Metool

I don't think most groups could handle something like [snip], though...

Zachiel

@Metool Don't even NAME it

In my experience, some games actually have rules that enforce a certain type of game and help a certain kind of stories to emerge from the fiction; and most people saying this isn't true only played game systems with wildly different minute mechanics but the same big general scheme

Of course if the GM and players are cool you can have lots of fun with every system

but if they're not there's still games that help you having a satisfactory result anyways

Alex P

@Zachiel I think it's fair to say that it's different kinds of fun, depending on the system. ;)

Zachiel

20:06

@AlexP philgamer.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/… ?

wax eagle

there are definitely games where if you play them as written and you play them in something like the intended direction they definitely have a *lot* of influence over the type of story you tell. There are also groups that are willing to go far afield of the rules and flat ignore them if they feel like they box their play in at all. Which doesn't really make sense to me, but whatever. If the game you're playing hinders your game...why are you playing that game...but whatever.
As BESW says, as long as everyone is safe and having fun then it's all good.

Alex P

@Zachiel Oh, hey, it's Glossary of Fun!

Zachiel

@waxeagle I think I have an answer to the why are you playing. Because the perfect game does not exist. There's conflicting goals that can't be satisfied at the same time, like in the discussion I had about getting an epic ending for a character and continuing playing it. No game can give you both at the same time so even if let's say D&D by the rules go against my idea of influencing the story as a character I want to play it the same.

Because there are different things in the game I want to get and can't find anywhere else.

wax eagle

@Zachiel that's legit. contradictory goals are certainly an issue. I think sometimes a lack knowledge about what's out there is certainly at play too. A lot of people are still playing D&D because they aren't aware of other games

Ravn

20:29

4.0: you can take your action point at any point during your turn, right?

wax eagle

@Ravn yes

if you want to start with it, you're free to

Ravn

ty

wax eagle

(that said, be mindful of the repurcussions of using it early in your turn...some feats are made less useful by early use, some are made more useful)

Zachiel

@waxeagle I like very much Fiasco for example but I also like hoarding things from game to game. Another reason why I like DiabloII more than DotA

So D&D, while not as smooth as Fiasco, is preferable to me

wax eagle

that's legit :)

Zachiel

20:41

Also, sometimes a game keeps promising you you will get some sort of fun later. When you have made some effort to build the next item or to get the next feat. I like that feeling.

I don't really have that in let's say World of Darkness

I just get better at things I already do

By the way I'm also trapped in the "I wish I had more system mastery because the others are better than me"/"This game requires no system mastery so anyone can be as competent as me" dycotomy

Alex P

21:21

@Zachiel So, here's why I like Burning Wheel so much: I like that feeling. But Burning Wheel forces me to earn everything in play. I don't just mean with XP. I mean you only gain stuff directly tied to what you did in the fiction.

So my "I want new stuff later!" drives me forward but it leads me to bolder play rather than just trying to earn the XP as best I can "safely."

Zachiel

I like to play safely, but I like this safety to be because I'm smart

Phil

0

Q: Wanting the opinions of some of my fellow gamers about my rpg I'm building

I've been working on my own RPG lately and I'd like to know what my fellow gamers think about it, I'm afraid that my personal preferences might make a game that isn't very popular, or that I'm going with the wrong approach. I've set a world that is populated with mythical creatures, there are no...

needs some VTC action

Metool

VTC?

Oh.

How?

ping @Phil

Zachiel

You need 3k reputation for VTC

@Phil thank you for the comment and the link

Nadir

22:35

2

Q: When determining Line of Effect with multiple targets, can you use multiple corners?

So the PHB seems clear with Line of Effect on 1 target at a time: if you can pick a corner and draw a line to any of your target's corners, it's a valid target. But what about when you're targeting multiple people with the same power? For example: So in this example, its clear by choosing th...

dnd-4e

Anyone have any ideas on that one? Turning into a pretty big rumble in my group :)

BESW

Our 4e guys are mostly asleep or at work right now.

Sometimes takes a day or three to get a really good answer to a tough question; I leave my questions for a week before I accept an answer.

Nadir

yea i figured, temperatures running hot though ;)

BESW

I think the answer is going to depend on the kind of area the effect uses--burst, blast, multiple non-AoE targets...

Nadir

not mine, of course. i'm a model of maturity

BESW

Of course.

Short answer: "If every imaginary line traced from the origin square to the target passes through or touches blocking terrain, there is no line of effect between the two." (RC 107)

Emphasis mine.

But again, it depends on whether you're talking about a burst or a blast or a multiple target non-area effect.

Gotta run, back in a few hours.

Nadir

22:47

yea but from there it goes into the bit about you draw those lines by picking a corner etc. my situation is if you pick 1 corner for every enemy if youre trying to hit them with the same power, or if you can pick multiple corners for multiple enemies.

trogdor

I am pretty sure you can use one corner per enemy

for stuff like a ranger double attack, It wouldn't make sense otherwise

Zachiel

That would be my answer as well, except if it was a burst or a blast with AoE targeting, one intersection must be the starting point

trogdor

but for bursts and blasts, it comes down more to what origin square you choose

Zachiel

mmmh no maybe I've mixed up the keywords

trogdor

no you are right

Zachiel

22:55

ah, true, it's origin -squares- no matter what

trogdor

you have to pick, or be, a starting point

if you can't draw a line from there you can't hit that target

Zachiel

which is which? AoE centered on you, extending in all directions: close blast?

that one extends from your square, any corner is ok

trogdor

yeah

but some powers are AoE from long range

Zachiel

AoE starting from any corner of your square: close burst?

trogdor

those need you to pick a square within that range that is the center

Zachiel

22:57

I need to check if it starts from a corner or from an adjacent square, but I guess it's a corner. You need arcane reach to have it start from a square away and hit you

Nadir

the PHB and the DMG are completely silent on determining line of effect for multiple potential targets, but there isnt a single example via words or diagrams that shows line of effect being determined from multiple corners simultaneously

Zachiel

@trogdor those are not close

Nadir

which i will say is far from conclusive, which is why i asked :)

trogdor

@Zachiel I was continuing my earlier statement

Zachiel

I think that if the starting point is a corner, well it's that corner
If it's a square every corner at the same time will do.

@trogdor Acknowledged

trogdor

23:00

all the AoE powers I know of, whether they be close or ranged, have their origins as whole squares

this leads me to believe you can pick one different corner for each enemy it hits

honestly, AoE would be pretty useless if that was not the case

Nadir

sure but every instruction on determining line of effect uses a corner

which is a great way to do it for single targets

but needs clarification for multiple ones

which i havent been able to find

trogdor

AoE already generally has weaker effects/damage, I have no reason to believe you can't draw from a different corner for each individual enemy within the effect

Wizards just really dropped the ball in certain areas of their 4E rule explanation

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't actually a specific ruling in any of the 4E books for AoE, and corners and such.

Nadir

yea i dont wanna get too hung up on a literal interpretation, especially if it overly weakens something already not too useful.

i just think that the way they set it up with picking a corner makes sense

youre in your 5x5 square, you can lean one direction to see around the wall, so thats the corner you use

but if youre leaning one direction around a wall to see one guy, how are you also leaning around the wall in the opposite direction to target another guy?

maybe the visual resonates too well with me and i cant get past it for this aspect

trogdor

I know what you mean,..... 4E has some strange rules

they made movement work in a non realistic way, just to make it easier to understand

I don't personally think not being able to see both targets at once for a multi-target attack is really a big issue

I would post an answer, but as I said, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't really an official ruling on this

and even if there is, I can't cite it if I haven't seen it

so all I can give you is my opinion

Nadir

thats fine, i certainly dont feel like i've seen a 'right' answer yet. though I do think the evidence leans towards establishing line of effect for all targets from the same corner. its like a tradeoff, with one target you're picking the corner that is most advantageous, so with multiple targets you should pick the corner that is most advantageous.

trogdor

23:12

which is that I think you can draw from a different corner for each target. it doesn't make much sense if you translate it into IRL, but neither does 4E movement, or magic, or any number of things in 4E

Nadir

but i certainly think thats, at best, a loose interpretation, and would love to get other ideas, especially based around balance issues and not just rules lawyering

trogdor

yeah

Nadir

the point you made about aoe being weak in general i think was the most telling

i wanna encourage people to use stuff, not limit how effective it is

trogdor

it isn't weak,.. so much as one corner targeting would "make" it weak

Nadir

yea i mean, per target its weaker

trogdor

23:14

because it does less damage and has weaker effects as is,.. but it is hitting multiple people

Nadir

so limiting the ways it can reach targets limits its utility

trogdor

if it doesn't hit multiple people, it is weak

yeah

Nadir

in all honesty im only on the side i'm on because people made crappy arguments for the other side at first, so i was like, well no, thats dumb.

but if no one comes up with an official clarification i'll probably let it go that way :)

trogdor

during our 4E campaign, no one who had AoE abilities or multitarget abilities was ever stressed too much more about line of effect than people using single target stuff

but that was our group, if yours goes a different way it's your call

Zachiel

@trogdor I think I've seen written somewhere that powers that hit multiple targets are considered as if they were hitting every single target at the same time - but maybe it was on a forum. Can you recall anything like this?

trogdor

23:17

hmm

Zachiel

@Nadir Think the power as light emanating for a pillar. It sheds from all corners at the same time

trogdor

it sounds familiar? but I don't recall where I might have read that, if it even happened

Nadir

@Zachiel but see, my issues with that is that isn't how area cover is addressed, and that makes zero logical sense when you're talking about a medium sized human operating in a 25 square foot area :)

trogdor

yeah,...

Zachiel

@waxeagle @BESW @JoshuaAslanSmith please confirm my second last send above here. The one directed at Trogdor

Did I miss any 4e expert that wanders the chat?

Nadir

23:21

besw chimed in before that he hadn't seen anything that applied but i think he was running out the door

trogdor

yeah

he was in my group too though

Zachiel

My sentence above might open a door if it's confirmed. He'll see it when he logs back

trogdor

so he has considered this before now about much as I have, I think.

which was not at all

but it's worth a shot

and the other 2 might know something

Nadir

i mean, i guess my main thought is this

you can sum up the rule for line of effect as:

"pick whatever corner you want, whatever corner you think is most advantageous, and use that corner to determine line of effect to your target"

if you change that "target" to "targets".....

trogdor

well, that's one of the problems

that statement implies, at the very least, that there is only one target

so it could go at least 2 ways from there

Nadir

23:26

yea exactly, again, not at all conclusive

but you can certainly view it as "pick a corner that benefits you the most to determine line of effect"

trogdor

you could change only the word "target" to "targets" or you could assume that you can do this same thing for each individual target

yeah

Nadir

yea :)

trogdor

that is cetainly an option

Nadir

i think what i said is every so slightly more intuitive than what you said, but only by a hairs breadth, and certainly no where near conclusive

and i definitely see where gameplay wise your alternative might be the best for balance

trogdor

4E seems to trend more towards game balance than realism

but then again, that says little when 4E movement basically makes circles squares

and other very unrealistic things

Nadir

23:29

looks like wax chimed in but i cant comment for clarification

but it seems like he said for a power with multiple targets, you can use different corners, but for a close burst you wouldnt

so like, an invoker power would get both of them, but a close burst 3 wouldn't

trogdor

yeah

sounds like

Nadir

which thematically makes sense, an invoker shoots off 3 beams of sun, but nothing says it happens all at once, you could do pew, pew, lean to a corner, and pew

trogdor

well, actually it looks like he said a burst 3 would hit

Nadir

but a burst youre just like, burst and done

trogdor

but a burst 2 wouldn't

not sure why he said that though

they are 4 squares away

Nadir

23:32

yea

trogdor

in the example

Nadir

hmmm

trogdor

I think he was saying if the PC went one square to the right

it would hit

Nadir

he addressed area burst but not a close burst, though i guess theres no difference?

trogdor

that's what it looks like anyway

Nadir

23:34

yea but that makes even less sense

trogdor

hmm

Nadir

because a burst from 1 square to the right

has no lines of effect to EITHER kobold

trogdor

he said "burst" he might have meant both kinds

well it has line of effect, but they would get superior cover

Nadir

oh ok right sorry, squiggly line i guess :)

trogdor

it's still not very optimal, but it IS possible

Nadir

23:36

so it seems like his last paragraph is the important one where he says it's determined individually

except for burst

but then he still determines burst individually in his example

quick someone lend me 29 rep :)

Metool

@Zachiel Please ping me.

Zachiel

@Metool

testing?

Metool

@Zachiel You failed. Try again.

Zachiel

@Metool PING!

trogdor

lol

Nadir

23:49

even i felt that one

Metool

Zachiel

Cheers for the 8k!

trogdor

nice

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